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[28. 5:00 p.m. or as soon thereafter as can be heard - Public Hearing on the adoption of an ordinance adding Article IV to Chapter 15 of the Clay County Code to be known as the Clay County Sexual Offender and Sexual Predator Act]

PUBLIC HEARING. THAT IS THE ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE ADDING TO THE RESTRICTIONS IN THE CLAY COUNTY CODE. KNOWN AS THE CLAY COUNTY SEXUAL OFFENDER AND SEXUAL PREDATOR ACT. COURTNEY,

CAN YOU TAKE IT FROM THERE >> YES. AS THE BOARD PREVIOUSLY DIRECTED, WE HAVE PREPARED AN ORDINANCE THAT WILL BE ADDED AS PART OF ARTICLE FOUR. IT WOULD BE ENTITLED COMMIXED SEXUAL OFFENDER AND SEXUAL PREDATOR ACT. THE PURPOSE OF THE ACT IS TO PROVIDE THAT ANY REGISTERED SEXUAL OFFENDER OR SEXUAL PREDATOR, THAT THERE IS A 2,000 FEET LIVING RESTRICTION AS TO CERTAIN PLACES SUCH AS SCHOOLS, CHIL CHILDCARES, PARKS OR PLAYGROUNDS. IN ADDITION TO THAT, THERE ARE RESTRICTIONS FOR LOITERING AT CERTAIN IDENTIFIED CHILD SAFETY ZONES. AND THAT IS LIMITED TO 300 FEET. SO, 300 FEET NEAR A SCHOOL, CHILDCARE, PARK, PLAYGROUND OR SCHOOL BUS STOPS. AND THOSE WOULD ALL BE AREAS IDENTIFIED BY THE CLAY COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE AND THEY WOULD COMPILE A LIST OF THOSE PLACES THAT WOULD BE PROVIDED TO THE SEXUAL OFFENDER OR SEXUAL PREDATOR WHEN THEY REGISTER AND THEY WOULD THEREFORE BE PUT ON NOTICE THEY ARE NOT TO LIGHTER IN THOSE AREAS. IT PROVIDES PROHIBITED HALLOWEEN ACTIVITY AND PROVIDES FOR REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS. SO THE FLORIDA STATUTE REQUIRES SEXUAL PREDATORS AND SEXUAL OFFENDERS TO REGISTER IMMEDIATELY WITH THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE. IN CONNECTION WITH, THAT WHAT LAYS OUT IN THIS ORDINANCE IS REGISTRATION FEES FOR THE INITIAL REGISTRATION AND UNDER THE STATUTE THEY HAVE TO, DEPENDING ON THE VIOLATION, YOU HAVE TO DO UPDATES. I THINK IT'S EITHER TWO OR THREE TIMES A YEAR. AND THEN ADDITIONALLY, IF YOU HAVE ANY CHANGES TO LIKE YOUR ADDRESS, YOUR VEHICLE REGISTRATION DURING THE TIME BETWEEN WHEN YOU DO YOUR UPDATE REGISTRATION, YOU ALSO HAVE TO NOTIFY THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. THE ORDINANCE THAT WE PRESENTED TO YOU, THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE DOES HAVE ONE REQUEST TO CHANGE THAT APOLOGIZE FOR UNDER THE REGISTRATION FEES WHERE IT PROVIDES $10 FOR THE CHANGES, INTERMEDIATE CHANGES. WE HAD DRAFTED IT TO JUST BE IN CONNECTION WITH CHANGES OF ADDRESS. WE DIDN'T REALIZE THERE WERE OTHER OCCASIONS THAT THEY HAVE TO APPEAR TO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE AND UPDATE. SO WHAT WE DISCUSSED IS JUST MAKING THAT PROVISION. SO, ANY CHANGE THAT THEY HAVE TO REPORT UNDER THE FLORIDA STATUTE TO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, THAT THAT FEE WOULD APPLY TO THOSE CHANGES.

FROM THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, DETECTIVE DUGGAR IS HERE, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR HIM AS

WELL. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: WHY DON'T YOU COME ON DOWN. WE'LL HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING AS PART OF THIS JUST AFTER WE GO THROUGH THE INFORMATIONAL PORTION. SO THOSE WHO HAVE FILED CARDS, I'LL CALL YOU UP HERE IN JUST A MOMENT. HOW ARE YOU, SIR? LET ME ASK

DOES ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS FOR HIM? >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I HAVE

COMMENTS BUT NOT QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND YOUR BOSS. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY STATE OR NATIONAL OR REGIONAL STUDIES THAT'S BEEN DONE THAT SPOOKS TO THIS ISSUE -- SPEAKS TO THIS ISSUE LIKE IF WE INCREASE THESE DISTANCES IT WILL BE OF ANY BENEFIT TO LAW ENFORCEMENT OR MAKE THE PUBLIC

MORE SAFE? >> JUST INCREASING THE DISTANCES? I'M NOT AWARE OF THE NATIONAL STUDIES. BUT IT'S KIND OF HARD TO PROVE WHAT YOU PREVENTED BY INCREASING THEM.

>> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: HOW ABOUT YOUR OPINION >> I THINK IT WILL HELP.

>> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: HELP DO WHAT? >> ENFORCE THE REQUIREMENTS THAT THEY HAVE AND THE ORDINANCE ON THE STATE STATUTE SIDE, SOME OF IT DOESN'T APPLY TO CERTAIN OFFENDERS. WHERE THE ORDINANCE WOULD APPLY TO ALL OF THEM. ALL OFFENDERS AND PREDATORS ONCE

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THEY MOVE INTO THE COUNTY, IT WOULD APPLY TO THEM. OR IF THEY'RE LIVING HERE NOW, IF THEY DECIDED TO MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE, IT WOULD APPLY. IF SOMEBODY IS A SEXUAL PREDATOR BUT THEY WERE CONVICTED BEFORE 2004, IF THEY WERE CONVICTED OF MOLESTING A CHILD, THE STATE STATUTE DOES NOT APPLY TO THEM THE COUNTY ORDINANCE WOULD. THEY COULD LIVE RIGHT NEXT TO A SCHOOL.

BUT THE COUNTY ORDINANCE WOULD APPLY TO THEM. SO THAT WOULD DEFINITELY HELP.

>> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: CAN THAT BE ENFORCED RETROACTIVELY >> IT WOULD BE IF THEY MOVE TO A

NEW PLACE. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THEY WOULD BE GRANDFATHERED IN AS TO WHERE

THEY ARE NOW. >> RIGHT. OR IF A SCHOOL WAS TO OPEN AND THEY LIVING SOMEWHERE AND THE SCHOOL OPENED NEXT DOOR THEY WOULD BE GRANDFATHERED IN. IT WOULD JUST BE ONCE THEY MOVE

INTO A NEW LOCATION ONCE THIS ORDINANCE IS ENACTED. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU.

ANYTHING ELSE? >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I GOT A COUPLE OF EMAILS --

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I GOT A COUPLE OF EMAILS THAT SAID THERE WERE STUDIES DONE THAT THIS

DOESN'T WORK AS FAR AS THE DISTANCES. IS THERE ANY PROOF. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ADDRESS THAT. I'VE DONE EXTENSIVE RESEARCH ON IT AND READ VOLUMES ON MULTIPLE

REPORTS AND D.O.J. AND ALL THAT. I'LL SUMMARIZE IT. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: YOU CAN

BE OUR EXPERT ON SEXUAL OFFENSES [LAUGHTER] >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: THERE WAS A RECENT CASE THAT CAME OUT AND PART OF THE OPINION, WHAT THE COURT FOUND IS THAT THERE ARE STUDIES ON BOTH SIDES. AND NEITHER SIDE CAN MAKE THAT DETERMINATION. BUT WHAT THEY DO ACKNOWLEDGE IS THAT IT IS A REAL DANGER AND A REAL THREAT THAT THEREFORE THEY NEED A PROCEDURE

FOR. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WE HAVE A PROCEDURE IN PLACE. AND, YOU KNOW, I -- THIS IS A TOUGH ISSUE, YOU KNOW, FOR ME. BECAUSE IT'S LIKE I HAD A GUY LIVING NEXT STORE TO ME WHO WAS ONE OF THESE GUYS AND HE HAD DONE SOMETHING WRONG WHEN HE WAS ABOUT 16 OR 17, AND HE WAS 48. A NICE GUY. I MEAN, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO WAY TO GET OUT OF THIS. AND JUST GANGING UP ON THESE GUYS IS NOT ALWAYS THE RIGHT ANSWER, I DON'T THINK. ON THE OTHER HAND, I DON'T WANT ANY OF THIS GOING ON IN THE COMMUNITY. BUT I'M JUST ASKING

FOR SCIENCE THAT SHOWS THIS WORKS. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I'D BE HAPPY TO KIND OF -- YEAH. SO, THE REASON I'VE READ ON THIS AND EVALUATED THE EMAILS AND COMMENTARY FROM PEOPLE BECAUSE I THINK AS PUBLIC POLICY CRAFTERS WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO DO THAT AND EVALUATE AND TRULY LOOK, DOES THIS MAKE SENSE. IS IT JUST A FEEL GOOD OR DOES IT MAKE SENSE. FOR ME THE REASON I AM SUPPORTING IT AND VERY MUCH PASSIONATE ABOUT IT IS I BELIEVE IT PROVIDES ADDED PROTECTION FOR OUR FAMILIES. AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE SPECIFICS ON THAT.

BUT I ALSO THINK THE WHY NOW. HONESTLY, IT WAS FIRST BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION WHEN THE NEWS CALL -- ACTION NEWS CALLED PROBABLY SIX MONTHS AGO AND BROUGHT UP SOME CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS. THEY SAID IS THERE ANYTHING THE COUNTY CAN DO. AND I SAID I DON'T KNOW. LET ME LOOK INTO THAT. THEN I FOUND OUT THAT THERE IS THINGS THAT THE COUNTIES CAN DO TO STRENGTHEN REQUIREMENTS. SO, THEN I STARTED LOOKING INTO THAT. AND THINKING ABOUT AS WE WERE PROJECTED FOR MASSIVE GROWTH, ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THAT THIS SERVES AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO IS DETERRENCE. YOU KNOW, WE CURRENTLY HAVE 382 SEXUAL PREDATORS/OFFENDERS. 88 OF THOSE ARE PREDATORS WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY THE MORE EGREGIOUS AND 294 LE SEXUAL OFFENDERS LIVING IN CLAY COUNTY. BUT AS THE POPULATION GROWS THERE'S A CHANCE THAT PEOPLE WANT TO LOCATE HERE BUT IT'S JUST HUMAN NATURE IF YOU A PLACE HAS MORE STRINGENT RULES YOU ARE LESS LIKELY TO LOCATE THERE. I THINK JUST AS A DETERRENCE IT MAKES SENSE. THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE HAS SAID THAT THEY NEED THESE TOOL TO HELP SPECIFIC LIKE THE LOITERING. RIGHT NOW, IF YOU ARE TAKING YOUR CHILD TO A BUS STOP, AND YOU DROP OFF YOUR CHILD AT A BUS STOP AND LEAVE, THERE'S NOTHING TO STOP A SEXUAL OFFENDER WHO HAS BEEN CONVICTED OF A SEXUAL CRIME ON A CHILD, WHO SERVED THEIR TIME, BUT IS A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER, THERE'S NOTHING TO STOP THEM AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT MAKING HARASSING COMMENTS. THERE'S NOTHING TO STOP THEM FROM STANDING THERE.

I'VE TALKED TO A FATHER WHO TOLD ME ABOUT A SITUATION THAT HAPPENED WITH HIS DAUGHTER. HE WOULD CONTACT THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE AND THEY DID AS MUCH AS THEY COULD WITHIN LIMITS OF WHAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO DO. BUT THEY COULDN'T SAY YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE HERE. THIS STRENGTHENS THAT AND GIVES THEM ABILITY TO SAY NO. AND SO THERE'S SPECIFIC THINGS. ONE OF THE THINGS

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THAT -- SO WHAT ARE THE CONS? WHAT ARE THE CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE BRING UP WHEN THEY SAY STUDIES. AND AS THE DETECTIVE SAID, IT'S HARD TO PROVE A NEGATIVE IN THE SENSE OF IT'S HARD TO SAY WE CAN'T PROVE DEFINITIVELY THIS PREVENTS RECIDIVISM AND RE-OFFENDING SO, THEREFORE, IT DOESN'T WORK. IT'S HARD TO PROVE THAT BECAUSE YOU ARE PROVING SOMETHING THAT'S HARD TO CONNECT THE DOTS. BUT ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS OUT OF ALL THE LITERATURE AND THE CONCERNS PRESENTED BY THOSE OPPOSED TO THESE LAWS, SPECIFICALLY DISTANCE LAWS, IS IT THAT CREATES INSTABILITY AMONG SEXUAL OFFENDERS WHICH HAS A POSSIBILITY OF INCREASING RE-OFFENDING. BUT THE REASON THEY SAY IT CAUSES INSTABILITY IS THAT IT AFFECTS HOMELESSNESS OR CREATES TRANS WHENCE. BUT OUT OF THE TOTAL POPULATION OF SEX OFFENDERS, LESS THAN SIX PERCENT ARE TRANSIENT. SO, IT IS A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE THAT IS EVEN TRANSIENT. OUT OF THAT, IF YOU LOOK AT -- FOR INSTANCE ST. JOHNS HAS NO LAWS DOUBLING DISTANCES. THEY HAVE OTHER LAWS BUT THEY DON'T HAVE A DISTANCE LAW LIKE WE ARE TRYING TO PROPOSE. YET THEY HAVE A MUCH HIGHER RATE OF TRANSIENTS AMONG THEIR SEXUAL PREDATOR POPULATION BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF PROBABLY TOURISM AND VARIOUS OTHER FACTORS. SO, THERE'S SO MANY FACTORS. TO JUST SAY IF WE DOUBLE THE DISTANCES AUTOMATICALLY IT'S GOING TO RISE HOMELESSNESS IS REALLY TO JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS VERY QUICKLY FROM ONE SET OF DATA TO ANOTHER. BECAUSE I CAN TAKE DATA THAT SHOWS SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THAT. AND THERE IS, OUT OF ALL OF IT THERE WAS A STUDY THAT MOST OF IT TENDS TO SAY IT'S NOT THE ONLY SOLUTION. THAT'S I THINK IF I HAD TO SUMMARIZE WHAT THE OPPOSITION TO DISTANCE LAWS ARE, IS THEY SAY IT'S NOT THE ONLY SOLUTION AND DON'T THINK OF IT AS A PROTECTION AGAINST ALL ILLS. THERE'S OTHER SOLUTIONS NEEDED.

LIKE THERAPY. LIKE, YOU KNOW, STABILITY IN THE LIFE THE OFFENDER. THOSE TYPES OF THINGS ARETOO. BUT THOSE ARE A SEPARATE DISCUSSION. AND THIS ORDINANCE ALONE DOES NOT CREATE A SCENARIO WHERE THOSE OTHER FACTORS AUTOMATICALLY OCCUR. EVEN IF THIS PASSES, THERE IS STILL MANY PLACES IN CLAY COUNTY WHERE SOMEBODY WHO HAS SERVED THEIR TIME CAN LIVE.

THEY JUST CAN'T LIVE CLOSE TO A SCHOOL. THEY CAN'T LOITER AT A BUS STOP. THOSE TO ME ARE SMALL PRICES TO PAY FOR THE VICTIMS OF THESE CRIMES. THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON, THE VICTIMS. I TALKED TO A MOM TODAY WHOSE SON WAS A VICTIM AND SHE IS VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF THIS. AND SAID NOT JUST THE PEACE OF MIND ALONE. SHE SAID YOU CAN THROW STATS AND STUDIES AT ME ALL YOU WANT, BUT UNTIL YOU EXPERIENCE THAT, UNTIL YOU HAVE THAT HAPPEN TO YOUR FAMILY, AND THE DISTANCES, THOSE ARE A SMALL PRICE TO PAY. SHE SAID WHY IS THE FOCUS ON THE PERSON WHO VICTIMIZED MY CHILD? WHY IS THE FOCUS ON THE PERSON WHO WAS PUT IN PRISON AND CONVICTED BY OUR COURTS OF TAKING A NEGATIVE ACTION. ALTHOUGH WHEN IT COMES TO CRIMINOLOGY WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHY PEOPLE TAKE ACTIONS, YES. WE HAVE TO ULTIMATELY REALIZE WE LIVE IN A FREE SOCIETY WHERE PEOPLE MAKE CHOICES WITH THEIR FREEWILL. AND WHEN THEY MAKE THOSE CHOICE THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES. I BELIEVE IN A GOD THAT FORGIVES BUT I ALSO BELIEVE IN A GOD THAT BELIEVES IN CONSEQUENCES. AND CONSEQUENCES ARE REAL AND THAT'S OUR DECISION. OUR DECISION IS ABOUT WHAT'S BEST FOR THE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. OUR FOCUS SHOULDN'T BE WHAT'S BEST FOR THE PERSON WHO COMMITTED A HEINOUS CRIME. A HORRIBLE ACT. AND A LOT OF RED HERRINGS ARE THROWN OUT THERE LIKE WELL SOME OF IT IS STATUTORY RAPE. THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT TRUE. STATUTORY RAPE IS VERY RARE AND VERY RARELY PROSECUTED. IN FACT IN FLORIDA YOU CAN -- THERE CAN BE A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A 23-YEAR-OLD AND A 17-YEAR-OLD IF IT'S CONSENSUAL. AND YOU CAN PROVE IT IS A CO-EXISTING RELATIONSHIP. SO IT'S NOT A SIMPLE CASE OF I WAS 18 AND SHE WAS 17 OR VICE VERSA AND WE STARTED DATING AND THAT AUTOMATICALLY WAS STATUTORY DATE AND NOW I AM A SEX OFFENDER. THAT'S AN OVER SIMPLIFICATION OF WHAT HAPPENS IN. IN MOST CASES THEY'RE TRUE, LEGITIMATE, HEINOUS CRIMES THAT ARE AGREENLY US AND -- EGREGIOUS AND ARE PROSECUTED AND CONVICTED. AND THEY JUST TO SUMMARIZE AND I CAN CONTINUE TO GO ON FOR A WHILE BECAUSE I HAVE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH ON IT. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THOUGHT WAS MOST THAT WAS ARGUING BACK AND FORTH ON WHETHER DISTANCE IS SPECIFICALLY IS HELPFUL SAID THIS. IT'S INDISPUTABLE THAT SOME SEX OFFENDERS ARE DANGEROUS AND POSE A THREAT TO RE-OFFEND.

THEY SAID YOU CAN'T DISCOUNT THAT. SO, IF THAT IS TRUE, WHICH THE STUDIES SAY IT'S TRUE, THEN WHY TAKE THE RISK? WHY NOT DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO GIVE OUR COMMUNITY THE COMFORT OUR

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PARENTS AND FAMILIES THE COMFORT OF KNOWING WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN WITHIN THE LEGAL BOUNDS OF WHAT COURTS HAVE SAID WE'RE ALLOWED TO DO TO POTECT THEM? WHY IS THE FOCUS ON HOW THE PERSON WHO COMMITTED THE CRIME IS GOING TO FEEL? I AM NOT SAYING WE SHOULDN'T HAVE COMPASSION TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE MADE MISTAKES, BUT THE FOCUS SHOULD BE ON PROTECTING OUR COMMUNITY AND THOSE VICTIMIZED NOT THE PERSON WHO COMMITTED THE CRIME.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I THINK THE FOCUS SHOULD BE ON DOING SMSZ THAT'S GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. THAT'S ALL I WAS ASKING. I DIDN'T HEAR ANY SCIENCE IN THERE. BUT I RESPECT

YOUR VIEWS. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: THERE IS NO SCIENCE THAT SAYS IT DOESN'T WORK. THE ONLY CON TO IT IS THAT IT MIGHT POSSIBLY INCREASE HOMELESSNESS. BUT THE HOMELESSNESS AMONG THAT POPULATION IS 6%. SO IT'S ALREADY VERY LOW ANYWAYS. AND THE STATE HAS INCREASED REQUIREMENTS RELATED TO REPORTING TO TRY TO REDUCE THE TRANSIENT POPULATION CHALLENGES IN TERMS OF TRACKING WHERE SEX OFFENDERS ARE. AND SO THAT'S THE MAIN OBJECTION TO IT. THIS IDEA THAT IT MIGHT CREATE INSTABILITY AS A RESULT. BUT, THE STATE OF FLORIDA DID EXTENSIVE RESEARCH AND THEY IMPLEMENTED THE THOUSAND FOOT REQUIREMENT. I THINK IN OUR COMMUNITY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE G.I. S. MAPPING, THERE'S STILL MANY PLACES THAT PEOPLE CAN LIVE. SO, CERTAIN COMMUNITIES, IF YOU DO A DOUBLING OF THE DISTANCE, IT REALLY MAKES IT WHERE LIKE FORT LAUDERDALE HAS HAD TO PULL BACK SOME OF THEIR REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE NOW PREVIOUSLY YOU ONLY HAD TWO PERCENT OF THE CITY WHERE PEOPLE COULD LIVE WHO HAD COMMITTED THESE CRIMES. AND THAT'S NOT THE CASE FOR CLAY COUNTY. WE'RE NOT MAKING SURE WHERE IT'S ONLY TW PERTWO PERCENT. BUT WE'RE ADDING A LAYER OF PROTECTION WHILE BALANCING THE ABILITY FOR THE 382 PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY. BUT IT WON'T AFFECT THEM ANYWAYS IF THEY DON'T MOVE. SO, YOU ARE REALLY TALKING FUTURE RESIDENTS WHO HAVE COMMITTED THESE CRIMES. AND I'M OKAY WITH HAVING SOME OF THE STRONGER ORDINANCES IN THE STATE THAT ACT AS A DETERRENT. THAT IS CLEAR SCIENCE. DETERRENCE. RUSSIA DIDN'T NUKE US BECAUSE THEY KNEW WE COULD NUKE THEM BACK. DETERRENCE WORKS. IT REALLY DOES. I WOULD SPEED MORE IF I DIDN'T GET A TICKET EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE. BUT I DO, SO I TRY TO SLOW DOWN YOU KNOW. I MEAN, CONSEQUENCES WORK. I MEAN, THAT'S THE FOUNDATION OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

SO. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IF IT PREVENTS ONCE INCIDENT IT'S FINE. I'M JUST TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING THAT SAYS 1,000 FEET EQUALS TWO INCIDENTS.

>> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: THERE'S A VARIETY OF REASONS INCIDENTS OCCUR SO IT'S VERY HARD TO PROVE THIS DISTANCE WAS IMPLEMENTED AND I WAS GOING TO COMMIT A CRIME BUT NOW I DON'T. IF THE TITANIC HAD NEVER SUNK WE WOULD HAVE NEVER HEARD ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE JUST BEEN ONE MORE SHIP. ITS HE HARD TO FIGURE OUT WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE SCENARIO. IT'S LIKE THE MINORITY REPORT. THAT'S WHY IT'S SO HARD TO PROVE. BUT IF IT'S -- IF IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE A THOUSAND FOOT DISTANCE WHY NOT ADD ADDITIONAL PROTECTION?

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: A THOUSAND FOOT IS AN ARBITRARY NUMBER JUST AS MUCH AS 2,000 IS.

>> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: NOT TO MENTION THE OTHER ASPECTS OF ORDINANCE THAT GREATLY

STRENGTHEN THE TOOLS THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE HAS TO FIGHT. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THAT'S WHERE MY THOUGHT PROCESS IS. THESE ARE THE FOLKS THAT NEED TO DEAL WITH IT. SO, IF YOU THINK THAT WE'RE GIVING YOU THE TOOLS THAT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH IT, THEN THAT'S WHERE I SORT OF MY POSITION IS. DETECTIVE, THANKS. WE APPRECIATE IT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS BEFORE WE GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT? WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. WE DO HAVE COUPLE OF CARDS IN

ALREADY. SARAH FEEBIG >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I LIVE AT 3330 BONDLAND DRIVE ORANGE PARK.

MY HUSBAND AND I MARRIED IN 2000. BEFORE THAT FOR PART OF HIS WORKING CAREER HE WAS A NAVAL OFFICER AND PILOT FOR 24 YEARS. HE FLEW TWO TOURS IN THE VIETNAM WAR. ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO I OBSERVED SOME UNUSUAL THINGS HAPPENING TO HIM COGNITIVELY. UNFORTUNATELY I WASN'T REALLY SHARP ABOUT THINGS BUT EACH YEAR GOT A LITTLE WORSE. THE COGNITIVE DIFFICULTIES. JUST ONE EXAMPLE, A FEW YEARS AGO HE WAS A TECHNOLOGY GENIUS. HE STARTED HAVING PANIC ATTACKS THAT HE HAD TO PUT A CHARGE CARD INTO A GAS PUMP. WELL I DID NOT DO WHAT I SHOULD HAVE AS A WIFE AND STEP IN AND FOUND OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON. AT SOME POINT IN 2016 WE

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HAD A 6-YEAR-OLD GRANDDAUGHTER THAT TOLD US THAT GRANDPA HAD TOUCHED HER ONE TIME OVER HER CLOTHING INAPPROPRIATELY ON HER BOTTOM. THAT'S ENOUGH TO PUT YOU IN PRISON IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA FOR 25 YEARS TO LIFE. AFTER THAT, I TOOK MY HUSBAND TO UF HEALTH AND THE NEUROLOGY DEPARTMENT. HE WAS GIVEN A BRAIN MRI AND WE WERE REFERRED TO A NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST WHO DID THE COGNITIVE TESTING AND WE FOUND OUT THAT HIS BRAIN IS SHRINKING AT A FASTER RATE THAN IS NORMAL.

THAT IT IS SQUEEZING IN ON THE RODS THAT TRANSFER THE DATA FROM NODE TO NODE. IT INVOLVES THE FRONTAL LOBE. ALL FIVE PARTS WERE DISCUSSED WITH ME. THE NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE CHARGES. SHE TOLD ME HE WAS GOING TO HAVE PROBLEMS WITH JUDGMENT. BUT IT WAS TOO LATE. I JUST DIDN'T KNOW. HE IS FINISHING UP TWO YEARS AND THE ONLY DEMENTIA UNIT IN THE PRISON SYSTEM OF FLORIDA. HE'LL BE OUT IN FEBRUARY. I'VE BEEN CALLED BY PROBATION AND TOLD THAT OUR HOUSE IS 800 FEET FROM A DAYCARE AND A HOME AND 8 OR 900 FEET FROM W. CHERRY. HE CANNOT COME BACK. I WILL STAY WITH MY HUSBAND. I WILL TAKE CARE OF HIM. HE WILL BE 79 YEARS OLD WHEN HE GETS OUT. HE IS NOT CAPABLE OF HANDLING ALL THIS. FLORIDA DOES NOT SEE DEMENTIA BY THE WAY IN THE COURT SYSTEM, I WAS TOLD. I'M TRYING TO GET AN EXEMPTION. IF I DON'T I KNOW WE HAVE TO MOVE. I'VE BEEN THERE SINCE '72. WE GOT MARRIED IN 2,000. HIS NAME IS ON THE DEED.

NOW I'M HEARING ABOUT THE 2,000 FEET. 1,000 FOOT RESTRICTION WAS HARD ENOUGH. 2,000 YOU SAY IN THE ORDINANCE IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER, BUT WHEN YOU START MAPPING IT OUT, IT WIPES OUT A LOT OF THE AFFORDABLE HOU HOUSING. THERE'S A LOT IN HERE THAT'S VAGUE AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL. IT'S PUNITIVE. ANYTHING PUNITIVE ISSEN CONSTITUTIONAL. THE BUFFER ZONE AND THINGS ABOUT THE REGISTRATION FEES. MR. ROLLINS I RESPECT WHAT YOU HAVE DONE ALL THE READING. A MEMBER OF THE FLORIDA ACTION COMMITTEE. I DO NOT REPRESENT IT BUT I AM A MEMBER. WE HAVE A LEGAL TEAM. THERE'S SO MUCH THAT YOU SAID THAT COULD BE REFUTED BUT ONLY OUT OF GREATEST RESPECT. I KNOW --

>> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I HAVE READ YOUR WEBSITE. >> SPEAKER: I KNOW. THANK YOU.

THAT'S BARELY TOUCH OPTION THE STUDIES OUT THERE. LEADING THE RESIDENCY RESTRICTION YOU ONLY HAVE TO BE IN YOUR HOME FROM 10:00 P.M. UNTIL 6:00 A.M. CHILDREN ARE NOT AT SCHOOL DURING THOSE TIMES. THERE'S SO MUCH MORE THAT COULD BE SAID. IF ANYONE WOULD EVER ALLOW ME TO BRING A TEAM IN, I WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT. IF THE ORDINANCE PASSES THAT WILL NOT KEEP PEOPLE LIKE THE GUY WHO KILLED CHERISH PERIWINKLE. THEY WILL STILL BE ABLE TO GO OUT AND DO THAT.

THANK YOU. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU, MA'AM. MARY ANN HAYES?

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: MARY ANN HAYES. I LIVE AT 267 ROCK SPRING LOOP IN ST. AUGUSTINE.

AND I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THIS BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IN ONE COUNTY SOMETIMES MOVES OVER INTO THE NEXT COUNTY. AND I SEE COUNTIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA STARTING TO EXTEND THE RESIDENCY RESTRICTIONS. AND I SUPPORT EVIDENCE-BASED LAWS NOT LAWS THAT ARE FEEL GOOD OR WELL MAYBE JUST BECAUSE WE OUGHT TO DO THIS AND WELL IT CAN'T HURT. WELL IT'S HURTING PEOPLE. AND I'M PARTICULARLY TALKING ABOUT THE RESEARCH FOR EXTENDING FROM A THOUSAND FEET TO 2,000 FEET. IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND A PLACE TO LIVE. MY HUSBAND IS ON THE REGISTRY. AND I HAD TO SELL A HOUSE AND BUY ANOTHER HOUSE SO THAT WE COULD LIVE. AND IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY. AND I THINK THAT YOU WILL FIND THAT YOU WILL END UP WITH MORE HOMELESS PEOPLE LIVING IN TENTS OUT IN THE WOODS THAT ARE HARDER TO TRACK EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO REGISTER IF YOU MAKE THIS WORSE. AND I HAVE ALL SYMPATHY FOR VICTIMS OF SEX OFFENSES. I WAS ONE MYSELF AS A CHILD. BUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE COMMITTED OFFENSES HAVE BEEN SENTENCED -- I'M MAINLY TALKING ABOUT OFFENDERS, SOMETIMES PREDATORS ARE MORE SCARY, BUT, STILL THEY HAVE SERVED THEIR SENTENCE. THEY COME BACK, THEY HAVE TO GO TO COUNSELING, THEY HAVE TO REPORT TO THEIR PROBATION OFFICERS. THEY HAVE A LOT OF RESTRICTIONS ON THEM. THEY'RE NOT HOME FREE. AND IN FLORIDA REGISTRY IS FOR LIFE. IT CAN BE FROM SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS

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PUBLIC URINATION. I CAN TESTIFY WHEN A MAN IS LOOKING AT I A DOLT PORN AND ACCIDENTALLY CLICKS ON CHILD PORN AND GETS CAUGHT ON THAT AND THAT REALLY WASN'T HIS INTENT, HE IS NOT SITTING THERE THINKING, I BETTER NOT DO THIS BECAUSE THEN I'LL HAVE 2,000 FEET RESTRICTION INSTEAD OF 1,000 FEET. THAT IS NOT A DETERRENT. IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING -- PEOPLE WHO HAVE WHO ARE ON THE REGISTRY, YES THEY'VE COMMITTED A TERRIBLE CRIME. AND I AGREE THAT IS AGRUDGE USE THING. BUT THEY HAVE SERVED THEIR TIME. THEY'RE TRYING TO REHABILITATE THEMSELVES. THEY'RE TRYING TO REINTEGRATE INTO THE COMMUNITY. AND RESTRICTIONS LIKE THIS JUST MAKE IT MUCH, MUCH WORSE. AND I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE THOUSAND FOOT RESTRICTION.

THERE ARE OTHER THINGS IN HERE I'LL BE CONCERNED ABOUT, BUT IT'S THE THOUSAND FOOT -- I THINK THE SHERIFF NEEDS HIS TOOLS BUT THE THOUSAND FOOT RESTRICTION I DON'T THINK IS GOING TO MAKE ONE IOTA OF DIFFERENCE OTHER THAN MAKE IT DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO REINTEGRATE INTO THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY COME BACK AND LIKE THIS LADY SAYS, HER HUSBAND CAN'T COME BACK AND LIVE WHERE THEY USED TO LIVE. SHE IS GOING TO HAVE TO FIND SOME PLACE ELSE.

THANK YOU. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU, MA'AM. THAT'S THE ONLY CARDS WE

HAD. IS ANYBODY ELSE -- STAY TO THE TOPIC. >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: JAMES AUTO 2904-2910 SEX AND BUDS CONTEMPLATE COUNTY FLORIDA HOTELS. I'M HERE WITH THE BCC WITH THE SOBS. YOU KNOW, THE GENTLEMAN -- NOT GENTLEMAN BUT THE CITIZEN THAT SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT WAS TURNED AWAY, SMITH WAS TURNED AWAY FROM A HOSPITAL. I WATCHED THAT TRIAL. OR STARTED TO WATCH IT. I COULDN'T WATCH IT. BUT I SEEN THE BEGINNING OF IT. AND THE HOSPITAL TECHNICALLY TURNED THIS PERSON, THEIR CITIZEN AWAY FROM THE HOSPITAL. SO WE NEED TO GET THE FUNDING RIGHT. AND LIKE THE LADY IS SAYING THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT OTHERISH ISSUES OUT THERE. SO, WE'RE SPENDING 35,000 PLUS TO PUT THIS GUY WITH DEMENTIA INTO A HOSPITAL OR WHEREVER. HE MAYBE NEEDED TO BE IN THE HOSPITAL I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHAT SHE SAID. BUT I THINK SHE SAID HE WENT TO PRISON WHICH WOULD BE UNJUST THING TO DO TO THE MENTALLY ILL. KIND OF FALLS BACK ON DON'T RUN YOUR KIDS INTO EACH OTHER. BUT IN CLAY COUNTY WE'RE NO STRANGERS TO UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS. SO, I'M ASKING YOU TO -- WHEN YOU HAVE HAD AN ORDINANCE AT ZERO PERCENT FOR OVER 20-PLUS YEARS, THAT YOUR OWN ATTORNEY WROTE, YOU GOT PROBLEMS. YOU GOT PROBLEMS WITH A LOT OF ORDINANCES HERE THAT NEED TO BE REVIEWED. AND I ASKED THEM TO BE REVIEWED BEFORE THIS ATTORNEY AND WHEN THIS ATTORNEY GOT HIRED. WE NEED TO GO THROUGH ALL THE ORDINANCES IN CLAY COUNTY. SO I AM ASKING YOU TO BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THIS. WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER LAWSUIT.

YOU KNOW, INTEGRATING, YOU KNOW -- THE SYSTEM'S BEEN HORRIBLE FOR 20-PLUS YEARS. WE MADE HARDENED CRIMINALS OUT OF PEACEFUL PEOPLE. WE FINALLY GOT THAT GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION WITH LEGALIZING GRASS. SO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE MARIJUANA CAN ACTUALLY HELP IN THIS ISSUE BUT WE WEREN'T ABLE TO TEST THAT UNTIL NOW. MAYBE THE SCIENTISTS AND THE PEOPLE OUT THERE CAN START DOING MORE RESEARCH ON THE MEDICAL. AND HOPEFULLY WE WON'T SUPPORT PUN RICKS WHO HAS -- PUBLIX WHO SPENT $200,000 TO FIGHT FOR KIDS THAT, YOU KNOW, NEED IT. THANK

YOU. I FORWARD THAT TIME BACK TO YOU. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANYONE ELSE? SEEING NONE, WE'LL BRING IT BACK TO THE BOARD AND CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY OTHER

DISCUSSION OR QUESTIONS? >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THIS BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, I DON'T HAVE A BETTER IDEA. IT JUST FEELS LIKE WE'RE DO? EL -- DEALING WITH LEAPAR COLONIES ABOUT A HUNDRED YEARS AGO. I'LL SUPPORT IT BUT IT DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT.

BUT GO AHEAD. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I AM JUST A QUICK RESPONSE TO SOME OF THE PUBLIC COMMENT. THIS IS A DIFFICULT SUBJECT AND I KNOW THAT THIS, YOU KNOW, FAMILIES

[01:45:01]

DEAL WITH CHALLENGES AND PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES AND THERE'S SOME HEART BREAKING STORIES OUT THERE. ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD SAY IS THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING IS AND WHAT I TALKED WITH THE LEGAL STAFF ABOUT IS WE SPECIFICALLY LOOKED TO MAKE SURE IT WAS LEGAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL.

AND THE FOCUS WAS MAKING SURE THAT -- LIKE FORT LAUDERDALE AND OTHER MUNICIPALITIES WHO HAVE HAD THOSE LAWS CHALLENGED, THE LEGAL STAFF DID A GREAT JOB OF GOING BACK AND RESEARCHING WHAT THEY DID THAT MADE THEIR PARTICULAR ORDINANCE UNCONSTITUTIONAL SO SHORE UP OURS. AND SO WHAT WE DID IS WE TOOK THE STANDARD THAT THE STATE OF FLORIDA ALREADY USES FOR RESIDENCY. AND THERE ARE NUANCES WITHIN THAT FLORIDA STATUTE. IT DOESN'T PAINT WITH A BROAD BRUSH FOR EVERYONE. AND SO I DO THINK THAT IN THE CASE OF THE LADY WHO SPOKE, I WOULD THINK THAT AN EXEMPTION WOULD MAKE SENSE, IN THIS CASE. THAT'S WHY THE STATE OF FLORIDA HAS EXEMPTIONS FOR EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES AND FOR SITUATIONS LIKE THAT. SO THAT'S NOT WHAT THE FOCUS OF THIS IS. THE OUTLIERS. THE FOCUS OF THIS IS HOW DO WOULD PROTECT OUR FAMILIES? BECAUSE 88 OF THOSE INDIVIDUAL ARE ACTUAL SEXUAL PREDATORS. THAT'S EVEN MORE AGGRESSIVE. ALTHOUGH IT PAINS ME THAT FAMILIES ARE INCONVENIENCED BY THIS, THERE'S LOTS OF FAMILIES WHO ARE PROTECTED BY THIS AND BELIEVE THAT IT IS NEEDED AND IMPORTANT.

AND I HAVE TO SIDE WITH THE 210,000 FAMILIES WHO ARE PROTECTED BY THISSOR THE FEW FAMILIES INCONVENIENCED BY IT. NO PUBLIC POLICY IS IMPLEMENTED WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES TO SOME.

THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE TO MAKE THE CHOICE. WHO ARE WE GOING TO SIDE WITH IN TERMS OF THE PUBLIC POLICY. WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT PROTECTING OUR FAMILIES OR THE INCONVENIENCE TO THOSE IN VERY TOUGH SITUATIONS THAT I DO NOT ENVY THE SITUATIONS THEY'RE IN AND CAN'T IMAGINE THE PAIN OF WHAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH. BUT WE STILL HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF ALL

SFLENS. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: MR. AUTO, PLEASE. I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THIS. BUT I TAKE COMFORT FROM THE FACT THAT WE HAVE PROFESSIONALS AT THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT THAT ARE TRAINED, THAT LOOK AT THESE THINGS AND THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE TELLING US THAT THEY NEED IN TERMS OF THE ELEMENTS TO DO THEIR JOBS AND PROTECT US BEYOND THAT. SO, I'VE HEARD THE LADIES AND THEIR ARGUMENTS, YOU KNOW, AND I GUESS THE STATE DOES THE EXEMPTIONS. DO WE DO ANY EXEMPTIONS AT ALL? OR DOES THAT COME FROM THE STATE AND WE JUST ENFORCE WHAT THE STATE DOES? OKAY. SO, THERE WE ARE. ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER

QUESTIONS? >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I HAVE A QUESTION. AND THIS IS ONE OF THOSE TIMES WHEN IT'S DIFFICULT TO BE IN THIS SEAT. BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE BOTH SIDES. AND QUITE HONESTLY BOTH SIDES ARE HEART BREAKING. HAVING HAD FRIENDS WHO HAVE BEEN ON BOTH SIDES, IT'S A DIFFICULT PLACE TO BE IN. MY QUESTION WOULD BE, WOULD IT BE CONSTITUTIONAL FOR US TO DISCRIMINATE AND PUT PREDATORS IN ONE AREA OF THE CODE AND EVERYONE ELSE IN ANOTHER AREA OF THE CODE? IT SOUNDS LIKE WE ALL AGREE THAT'S THE MORE EGREGIOUS POPULATION.

>> IT'S HARD TO CLASSIFY. AND I'D HAVE TO RELY ON THE DETECTIVE. BECAUSE CERTAIN PREDATORS THE WAY THE REGISTRATION IS, CERTAIN PREDATORS FALL UNDER SEXUAL OH.ERS. SO IT WOULD BE REALLY HARD TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO CLASSIFY WHICH ONES -- YOU'D HAVE TO GO BACK TO IDENTIFYING I THINK THE ACTUAL CRIMES COMMITTED BY THE INDIVIDUALS AND

PUT THOSE IN THE CATEGORIES. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: MAY WE ASK THE DETECTIVE.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: YES. DETECTIVE COME ON DOWN. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: WHEN YOU ARE WORKING THESE CASES, DO THEY HAVE DESIGNATIONS FROM THE STATE AS TO THIS ONE IS A

PREDATOR AND THIS ONE IS NOT? >> RIGHT. PREDATORS HAVE TO REGISTER FOUR TIMES A YEAR.

OFFENDERS HAVE TO REGISTER TWICE A YEAR BUT SOME OF THEM ALSO BECAUSE OF THE CRIMES THEY COMMITTED WHILE THEY'RE DESIGNATED AN OFFENDER THEY HAVE TO REGISTER FOUR TIME AS YEAR

[01:50:03]

JUST LIKE A PREDATOR. SO, YOU CAN'T SAY ALL OF THE PREDATORS ARE THIS AND ALL THE OFFENDERS ARE THIS. IT'S WHATEVER THE STATE DESIGNATES THEM AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

>> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: OKAY. IT WAS JUST A THOUGHT. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: I THINK THE BIGGEST CONCERN IS AS WAYNE INDICATED, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT THE ROMEO AND JULIET SITUATION

WHERE WE'VE GOT A, YOU KNOW, 18-YEAR-OLD AND A 17-YEAR-OLD. >> AND THERE'S RELIEF IN THE STATE STATUTE FOR THAT. THERE'S RELIEF FOR ALL OF THEM. THEY HAVE PETITION THE COURT AFTER 20 OR 25 YEARS IF THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING ELSE, WHERE THEY GOT IN TROUBLE WHERE THEY WERE YOUNG AND THEY DIDN'T GET IN TROUBLE SINCE THEN AND NOW THEY'RE 50 OR 60, THEY CAN PETITION THE STATE AND GET IT REMOVED WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE TO REGISTER AT ALL AND NONE OF THIS WOULD APPLY TO

THEM. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: AFTER 25 YEARS? THAT'S A CAKE WALK RIGHT.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: IT'S STILL A LONG TIME. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: BUT, AGAIN, IT'S NOT AS SIMPLE -- I MEAN, FLORIDA LAW DOES ALLOW FOR IF YOU ARE UP TO 23 AND DATING SOMEBODY WHO IS 17 AND IT'S CONSENSUAL, THAT IS A LEGAL DEFENSE. IT'S KNOWN AS THE ROMEO AND JULIET LAW. SO IT'S NOT A CASE OF A 17-YEAR-OLD AND 18-YEAR-OLD HIGH SCHOOL SWEETHEARTS AND NOW THE SWEETHEART IS FOR LIFE, YOU KNOW, LABELED A SEX OFFENDER.

BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE WRONG. AND I THINK SOME OF THE CHALLENGES IN TERMS OF CLASSIFICATIONS, SOME OF THOSE ARE DETERMINED AT THE STATE LEVEL AND A LOT OF THOUGHT AND EFFORT HAS BEEN PUT INTO THAT. AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE INCREASING THE DISTANCES BUT THE CATEGORIES AND THE PROCESS FOR DETERMINING WHO FALLS IN THOSE CATEGORIES IS NOT SOMETHING WE'RE DETERMINING. AND THAT'S SOMETHING THE STATE HAS PUT EFFORT AND TIME AND RESEARCH

INTO. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE DETECTIVE? THANK YOU, DETECTIVE. APPRECIATE IT. SORRY TO KEEP HAVING YOU POP BACK UP HERE.

ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER FURTHER QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION? IF NOT WE'LL TAKE A MOTION. AND A

SECOND. OTHERWISE, WE MOVE ON. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I MOVE APPROVAL OF THIS ORDINANCE.

>> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: WOULD YOU INCLUDE THE REVISION REQUESTED.

>> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: WITH THE REVISION REQUESTED BY THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE AND STATED BY

THE ATTORNEY PREVIOUSLY. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I'LL SECOND THE MOTION.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY

OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES 5-0. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: MR. CHAIR, COULD YOU PLEASE INSTRUCT MR. AUTO IF HE SHOUTS OUT AGAIN CAN WE LOOK AT HAVING HIM BE REMOVED. HE IS -- THIS IS A TOUGH TOPIC AND HE IS YELLING OUT RANDOM THINGS LIKE HE THINKS HE IS FUNNY AND THIS IS A COMEDY SHOW AND IT'S NOT. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SERIOUS ISSUES. AND IT IS A HUGE DISTRACTION AND

COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: I AGREE. MR. AUTO, YOU CAN SPEAK WHEN YOU

GET TO THE PODIUM. OTHERWISE WHISPER >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: THEY'RE GOING

TO MOVE TO HIS AREA THOUGH. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: YOU ARE OUT OF ORDER. PLEASE BE QUIET. ALL RIGHT. SO, WE'RE DONE WITH OUR TIME CERTAINS. WE'LL MOVE BACK TO OUR AGENDA ITEM UNDER NEW

[15. Lien Reduction]

BUSINESS NUMBER 15 WHICH IS A LANE REDUCTION. SHARICE STEWART WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT. 1048

BOB WHITE DRIVE IN MIDDLEBURG. >> SPEAKER: I HAVE TWO TODAY. SO I HAVE CASE NUMBER CE-07-048 WHICH IS 1048 BOB WHITE DRIVE. THE NEW OWNER IS MARK TAYNTON. THIS WAS A ACTIVE CASE FOR A VERY LONG TIME. IF YOU'VE GOT A MINUTE TO TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR PICTURES. THIS GENTLEMAN DID A LOT OF CLEAN UP. HE'S HERE. DID A LOT OF CLEAN UP. I THINK HE BROUGHT THE -- BOUGHT THE PROPERTY BACK IN JUNE. THE LIENS WERE TOTALLING $444,000 AT THE TIME BECAUSE THE CASE WAS ACTIVE FOR 12 YEARS AND NINE MONTHS AT $100 A DAY FINE. THE DOCUMENTS AND CALLS FOR STAFF ARE $3,120. 106 DOCUMENTS AT $20 APIECE AND SO INSPECTIONS AT $100 APIECE. ON OCTOBER 3RD, SPECIAL MAGISTRATE HARDEN RECOMMENDED THE 444,000 FINE BE REDUCED TO $250. HER DECISION WAS BASED ON THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF WORK HE PUT INTO CLEANING UP THE PROPERTY ALONG WITH THE MONEY HE SPENT ON THE CLEAN UP. HE SPENT OVER $4,000 IN CLEAN UP. AND ALSO HE WILL CONTINUE TO IMPROVE THE PROPERTY. IF YOU SEE ON THE PICTURES, HE'S ACTUALLY MOVED ANOTHER MOBILE HOME ON TO THE PROPERTY AND INTENDS FOR ONE OF HIS FAMILY MEMBERS TO LIVE THERE. SO

[01:55:06]

THAT'S THAT CASE. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME OR M MR. TAYNTON, LET US KNOW.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: MR. TAYNTON CAN YOU GET UP FOR A SECOND AND ANSWER A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS REAL QUICK. HOW MUCH DID YOU PURCHASE -- YOU PURCHASED THE PROPERTY AT AUCTION RIGHT?

>> CORRECT. IT WAS A TAX DEED SALE. AND THERE WAS ONE BIDDER, MYSELF AND NO ONE ELSE WOULD TAKE ON THE CHALLENGE. IF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH BOB WHITE DRIVE AND ED BURNS ROAD, VERY DEPRESSED NEIGHBORHOOD OUT THERE. I DID BUY THE PROPERTY $4,500, $4,800, SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR AN ACRE AND A QUARTER. TWO ABANDONED MOBILE HOMES, A TRUCK BODY, SEVEN BIG TREES DOWN, 12 YEARS OF NO LAWN MAINTENANCE WHATSOEVER. I HAVE HAULED 1140 POUNDS OF TIRES OFF THE PROPERTY 22 POUNDS OF TRASH AND DEBRIS OUT OF THE FRONT HALF OF THE FIRST MOBILE HOME ON THAT ONE. IF YOU REMEMBER THE OLD BUDWEISER BROWN BOTTLES. THE LONG NECK BOTTLES. THEY WERE CONSUMED. S PUT ON THEM AND PUT BACK INTO THE CASE. AND OVER 80 CASES WERE REMOVED OUT OF THE MOBILE HOME BEFORE I TOOK THE MOBILE HOME OUT. I ISSUED PAYMENTS TO CLAY COUNTY IN EXCESS OF $8,000 ON THIS PROPERTY. THE INTENT WAS TO PUT MY SON IN THE PROPERTY WHO BY THE WAY IS AN ADOPTED BOY TOO. WE ADOPTED HIM 20 YEARS AGO. A LITTLE OVER 20 YEARS AGO. JUST MAYBE ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE BAD MISTAKES IN MY LIFE. I DON'T KNOW

[LAUGHTER] NO, HE IS A GREAT KID. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: SO YOU PAID $4,500 FOR THE PROPERTY. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY IT WAS A LITTLE OVER $3,000 IN PERMITS

RIGHT? >> THERE'S PERMITS, IMPACT FEES, TRASH HAULING SERVICES. I'M AROUND $20,000 RIGHT NOW. NOT INCLUDING FEES FOR MY OWN EQUIPMENT THAT I OWN OR ANY OF MY OWN TIME JUST IN CHECKS WRITTEN FOR MATERIALS AND H HAULING DUMP FEES AND SO FORTH.

THE PROPERTY, THERE'S 42 LOTS IN THE MIDDLE OF JENNINGS STATE FOREST. IT'S SO DEPRESSED IN THE LAST THREE YEARS THERE HAVE BEEN NO ARMS LENGTH TRANSACTIONS. MOST PROPERTIES ARE TAX SALES, INFAMILY TRADING. THERE HAS BEEN TWO OUTSIDE SALES. ONE WAS FIVE ACRES WITH A MOBILE HOME LESS THAN A YEAR OLD THAT SOLD FOR $70,000. PROBABLY LESS THAN WHAT THE MOBILE HOME COST. THERE WAS A TWO-AND-A-HALF ACRE LOT WITH AN OLD HOME ON IT THAT SOLD FOR $40,000. AM I GOING TO FLIP THIS? IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION TO FLIP IT. AM I GOING TO BE UPSIDE DOWN ON THE PROPERTY BY THE TIME I GET INTO WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER A NICE PLACE, WHICH IT WILL BE A NICE PLACE, I'M PROBABLY GOING BE UPSIDE DOWN. MY HOPE IS MAYBE MY KID CAN GO OUT THERE AND LIVE OUT THERE AND PAY $450 A MONTH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT RENT AND PAY THE HARD COSTS OFF IN FIVE YEARS AND I CAN GIVE HIM THE DEED AND HE CAN HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY QUESTIONS? >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I MOVE

FOR APPROVAL. >> COMMISSIONER: SECOND. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? THANK YOU. WE APPRECIATE YOU DOING ALL THAT WORK TO PUT THAT BACK IN

SERVICE. >> I DO APPRECIATE IT. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE HAVEN'T

VOTED YET BUT AS PART OF THE DISCUSSION JUST TO THANK YOU. >> I LIKE A GOOD CHALLENGE.

THIS IS A CHALLENGE. THEY'RE OPEN DOWN STAIRS AND I CAN PAY THIS OFF RIGHT NOW? SAY AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. WE MOVE TO 947 ARTHUR MOORE DRIVE

[16. Lien Reduction]

>> THIS IS ANOTHER ONE THAT WAS ACTIVE FOR TEN MONTHS AND 25 DAYS. THE PROPERTY IS ACTUALLY STILL OWNED BY MR. SCHIEFER. AND WE MAY HAVE AN ATTORNEY HERE ON THIS ONE. YOU ARE FINE.

COME ON UP. SO, WHAT HAPPENED ON THIS CASE -- WELL LET ME READ IT TO YOU. THE TOTAL FINES ARE $7,850. TOTAL STAFF'S COST IS $1,600 WITH $900 OF THAT IN OUR DOCUMENTATION AND $700 OF THAT

[02:00:06]

IN INSPECTIONS. SPECIAL MAGISTRATE HARDEN RECOMMENDED THE $7,850 LIEN BE REDUCED TO STAFF'S COST OF $1,600. PART OF OUR DECISION WAS BASED ON THE CONFUSION AND OWNERSHIP AT THE TIME THAT THE LIEN WAS W PLACED BUT THE CURRENT OWNER IS MR. SCHIEFER WHO DOES TECHNICALLY STILL OWN THE PROPERTY BUT IS GOING INTO FORECLOSURE. TELL ME YOUR NAME AGAIN. SO, SHE'S HERE ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF. BUT ESSENTIALLY THE FORECLOSURE COMPANY ZOME FIELD SERVICES IS REQUESTING THE APPROVE FOR THIS REDUCTION.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THEY'RE THE ONES THAT THE BANK ACTUALLY HAD GO IN AND CLEAN UP RIGHT.

>> YES, SIR. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR COUNSEL. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I AM

CONFUSED. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THEY COULDN'T GO IN AND DO ANYTHING IN THE PROPERTY BUT THEY WENT INTO THE YARD AS IT WAS GOING INTO FORECLOSURE. TO KEEP THINGS MOVING FORWARD. THE PROPERTY OWNER HIMSELF DID NOT PAY FOR THAT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR

COMMENTS? I NEED SOMEONE TO MAKE A MOTION. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: I MOVE

APPROVAL. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: SECOND. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES 4-1. COMMISSIONER BOLLA

VOTED IN THE NEGATIVE. AND DID A GREAT JOB. >> THANK YOU.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: TELL THEM YOU FOUGHT REALLY HARD FOR HIM [LAUGHTER]

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME? >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: NO. MOVE ON TO NUMBER 17. REQUEST APPROVAL

[17. Request approval of the Nationwide Guaranteed Minimum Interest Rate Option]

OF THE GUARANTEED MINIMUM INTEREST RATE OPTION. JENNIFER FROM HUMAN RESOURCES IS HERE FOR

US. >> HELLO, SIR. WE'RE REQUESTING APPROVAL OF THE OPTION SELECTION. WE HAVE TWO PROVIDERS FOR DEFERRED COMPENSATION WITH THE COUNTY.

WE HAVE NATIONWIDE AND WE ALSO HAVE MASSMUTUAL. PERIODICALLY THEY WILL EVALUATE THEIR OFFERINGS AND FUND OPTIONS AND THEN SUGGEST CHANGES. NATIONWIDE HAS DONE THAT. ONE OF THE CHANGES THAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO DO WOULD BE TO CHANGE THE GUARANTEED MINIMUM INTEREST RATE OF THE FIXED ANNUITY CONTRACT WITHIN THE FUND. THEY HAVE PRESENTED THREE OPTIONS FOR THE COUNTY'S CONSIDERATION. THE FIRST OPTION BEING THE STEP DOWN OF THE CURRENT RATE. THE CURRENT GUARANTEED RATING AT 3.5% AND THEY ARE RECOMMENDING -- THEY ARE SUGGESTING A STEP DOWN FROM NEXT YEAR THROUGH 2022 WHERE THE RATE WOULD CHANGE FROM 3.5 TO 2.5% TO 2.0% AND 1%. IF THE COMPETITIVE MARKET RATE IS ABOVE WHATEVER THE GUARANTEED MINIMUM RATE IS COMPETITIVE RATE. THE OPTION TWO PROVIDES FOR THE SAME STEPDOWN AND THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS IT INCREASES THE TRANSFER RATE FROM 20% TO 40 PERCENT. OPTION THREE WHICH IS THE DEFAULT OPTION SAYS IF NO SELECTION IS MADE, THEN IT ALLOWS FOR THE CURRENT PARTICIPANTS AND FUND BALANCES IN THE FIXED ACCOUNTS TO REMAIN THE SAME. BUT AS OF A CERTAIN DATE, AND I BELIEVE IT'S 3/31 OF NEXT YEAR, THEN THERE WOULD BE NO NEW PARTICIPATION IN THAT FIXED ACCOUNT. THAT WOULD INCLUDE NO NEW CONTRIBUTIONS, INTO ROLLOVERS, AND NO NEW PARTICIPANTS. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO DO WOULD BE TO DRIVE NEW PARTICIPATION TO MUTUAL FUNDS TO TARGET DATE FUNDS WHICH CARRY A LOT MORE RISK THAN THE FIXED FUNDS. STAFF IS REQUESTING APPROVAL TO SELECT OPTION ONE WHICH PROVIDES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THAT GRADUAL STEPDOWN AND ALSO KEEP THE FUND OPEN. WE WILL ALWAYS HAVE A PERCENTAGE OF EMPLOYEES AND/OR RETIREES THAT WILL WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE FIXED ACCOUNT. SO, OPTION THREE IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE THEN IT WOULD CLOSE THAT FOR THEM. JUST A LITTLE BIT OF BACK GROUND INFORMATION UNDER NATIONWIDE WE HAVE PORTFOLIO BALANCE OF ABOUT $5.8 MILLION. AND WE HAVE 90 PARTICIPANTS IN THAT WHO ARE UNDER THE FIXED ACCOUNTS. WHICH REPRESENTS A LITTLE UNDER -- IT'S ABOUT 51% WHO PARTICIPATE IN SOME WAY WITH THAT FUND. IN

[02:05:09]

MASSMUTUAL, WHICH IS OUR SISTER FUND, WE HAVE $4.4 MILLION IN THAT PORTFOLIO AND WE HAVE 17% WHO PARTICIPATE IN THE FIXED ACCOUNTS. THEIR INTEREST RATE AT MASSMUTUAL IS SLIGHTLY LOWER.

IT'S 3%. BUT THAT IS A REALLY OLD FUND GRANDFATHERED INTO OUR PLAN. IF WE WERE TO MAKE ANY CHANGES TO MASSMUTUAL ACCOUNTS, THE CURRENT ONES, THE INTEREST RATES WOULD BE 1.7%. AND NATIONWIDE IN DOING THEIR WORK THEY REALIZED THAT 3% IS NOT SUSTAINABLE OVER THIS LENGTH OF

TIME. WE'VE HAD IT FOR A LONG TIME. ANY QUESTIONS? >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I'LL DEFER TO THE FINANCIAL PLANNER ON THE BOARD AND WHATEVER HER RECOMMENDATION IS I'LL GO WITH THAT. BECAUSE MY HEAD IS ABOUT TO EXPLODE [LAUGHTER]

>> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I DON'T AGREE WITH STAFF. YOU SAID THERE IS OPTION ONE, OPTION

TWO. I THOUGHT THERE WAS OPTION THREE. >> IT IS THE DEFAULT OPTION WHICH CLOSES THE FIXED FUND. SO, YOU MAINTAIN YOUR EXISTING BALANCES BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY NEW PARTICIPATION; NO NEW CONTRIBUTIONS, NO ROLLOVERS OR NEW PARTICIPANTS.

>> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: RIGHT. THE ONE QUESTION SHE CAN'T ANSWER, I DON'T THINK IS, ARE THE PEOPLE IN THAT FUND RIGHT NOW WITHIN FIVE YEARS OF RETIRING? BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHEN THEY'RE GETTING CLOSE TO RETIREMENT THEY'LL GO AND PUT THEIR MONEY IN A FIXED ACCOUNT. SO, FOR ME I LOOK AT THAT AND SAY IF YOU CAN GET 3.5% ANYWHERE TODAY, HOLD ON TO IT.

THAT'S JUST ME. THEN IF THEY WANT TO PUT NEW MONEY IN THE OTHER FUND, THE MASSMUTUAL,

WHICH IS PAYING, WHAT? >> 3% CURRENTLY. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: SO THAT'S JUST -- I HAVE TO LOOK AT IT THAT WAY AS A PERSON THAT'S WITHIN FIVE YEARS OF RETIRING.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: WELL WE HAVE BOTH AT THIS POINT AND TIME. SO IT WOULD BE OPTION ONE IS WHAT

THEY'RE RECOMMENDING. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: WELL OPTION ONE TAKES IT DOWN TO 1%.

>> THAT'S OVER A THREE YEAR PERIOD. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: RIGHT.

BUT THE GOAL IS YOU ARE NOT GOING TO KEEP THE 3.5. YOU ARE GOING TO ONE.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: BUT WHAT THEY'RE -- THE INSTRUMENT THEY HAVE NOW AT 3.5 IS GOING AWAY.

THEY'RE GOING TO STEP THAT DOWN. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: THEY'RE SAYING THEY WILL GRABTDZ FATHER PEOPLE THAT HAVE INVESTED THERE, THEY CAN STAY THERE AT 3.5. IF WE ELECT TO GO WITH OPTION ONE, WE'RE TAKE THAT AWAY FROM THEM AND WE'RE TAKING THEM DOWN TO ONE PERCENT. CORRECT?

>> THAT'S THE GUARANTEED MINIMUM, YES. IF THE MARKET RATE IS ABOVE THEN THEY PAY WHATEVER THE MARKET RATE IS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I DID MENTION AS WELL WAS THE POSSIBILITY OF HAVING THE PLANS EVALUATED TO SEE IF FEES WERE IN LINE WITH SOME OF THE OTHER PRODUCTS OUT THERE. IF WE HAVE -- WE HAVE AN ITEM COMING UP WHICH IS THE FINANCIAL ADVISORY SERVICES. THAT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO POSSIBLY HAVE THE FUNDS EVALUATED. THE OTHER OPTION WOULD BE TO BID THIS OUT. THIS HAS NOT BEEN BID IN ALMOST TEN YEARS. SO, THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER VENDORS OUT THERE THAT YOU CAN LOOK FOR COMPETITIVE PRODUCTS.

>> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I GUESS MY POINT IS, IF WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO PUT MONEY IN A FIXED BUCKET, THEN WE HAVE THE MASSMUTUAL OPTION AND THAT'S THREE PERCENT. RIGHT?

>> YES. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: OKAY. ARE FOLKS CURRENTLY GETTING 3.5% AT NATIONWIDE, IF WE CHOOSE TO LOCK THEM IN, THEN THEY'RE STILL GOING TO KEEP GETTING THEIR 3.5.

AND IF THEY WANT TO SAVE MONEY, CONTINUE TO MOVE MONEY OUT OF THEIR PAYCHECK THEY CAN GET 3%

OVER AT MASSMUTUAL? SO, THAT'S JUST OPTIMUM TO ME. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: MAKES

SENSE TO ME. LIKE I SAID-- >> THE ONLY THING I CAN SAY IS THAT IN SPEAKING WITH THE NATIONWIDE REPRESENTATIVES, ONE OF THE THINGS WE ASKED WAS WHAT WAS THE MOST POPULAR CHOICE THAT WAS MADE AMONG THEIR ENTIRE BOOK OF BUSINESS? AND IT WAS OPTION ONE. THEN ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT AS WELL WAS LOOKING AT OPPORTUNITIES IN THE FUTURE TO NEGOTIATE -- TO LOOK AT RATES AND TO ALSO LOOK AT FEES THAT ARE PAID BY THE PARTICIPANTS TO SEE IF THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES

FOR CHANGES THERE AS WELL. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: HAVE WE ASKED OUR EMPLOYEES WHAT THEY

WANT TO DO? >> WE DID NOT. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I WOULD RECOMMEND WE TABLE THIS FOR A TWO-WEEK PERIOD AND RUN AN ELECTION OF SOME SORT AND MAYBE

[02:10:03]

COMMISSION HUTCHINGS CAN WRITE THE LETTER [LAUGHTER] TO THE EMPLOYEES EXPLAINING THE ISSUE AND ASK WHAT THEY WANT TO DO

>> THE ONLY THING I DO HAVE TO APOLOGIZE FOR THE TIMING OF IT. SO, THIS HAS BEEN AN ITEM THAT HAS BEEN EVOLVING OVER TIME. IN TALKING WITH OUR REPRESENTATIVE, THEY HAVE SAID JUST WAIT BECAUSE THERE WERE CHANGES. SO, WHEN THEY FIRST STARTED TALKING ABOUT IT, THEY SAID THAT THEY WOULD ELIMINATE THE FIXED FUND COMPLETELY. AND OVER TIME BASED ON DISCUSSIONS WITH OTHERS, THEY HAVE COME TO THIS POINT HERE WHERE THEY STILL WILL KEEP IT OPEN BUT ONLY FOR THOSE WHO ARE CURRENTLY IN THERE. BUT WE DO HAVE A PRETTY HARD DATE THAT WE HAVE TO ADHERE TO WHICH IS THE 17TH OF NOVEMBER. SO I DO HAVE TO APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. I DID NOT GET A LOT OF NOTICE FOR THE

TIMEFRAME. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DON'T ADHERE TO

THE 17TH >> THEN YOU DEFAULT AND GO TO THE CLOSED FIXED FUND.

>> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: THE NUMBER THREE CHOICE? THAT'S THE DEFAULT?

>> YES, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: DID I UNDERSTAND YOU IF AN EMPLOYEE ELECTS TO GO FROM NATIONWIDE TO MASSMUTUAL THERE'S A PENALTY AGAINST THEIR DEBT CHARGED?

>> WELL THE PERCENTAGE CHANGES. THEIR PERCENT ON THE GUARANTEED RATE IS 3% CURRENTLY.

>> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: HOW ABOUT 20% AND 40% WHAT DID THAT APPLY TO

>> THAT WAS THE TRANSFER RATE UNDER OPTION TWO WHICH AN INDIVIDUAL CAN TRANSFER UP FROM.

CURRENTLY IT'S 20 PERCENT THEY'RE LIMITED TO TRANSFER IN THE FUTURE. IF YOU CHOSE OPTION

TWO THEN THE CAN TRANSFER UP TO 40% OF THEIR BALANCE. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: SO THEY WOULD NOT LOSE PART OF THEIR INVESTMENT BY TRANSFERRING TO ANOTHER COMPANY?

>> NO SIR YOU WOULD JUST HAVE DUAL PARTICIPATION. WHICH IS PERMITTED.

>> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: IN OTHER WORDS IF I HAD FIVE 240U DOLLARS IN THE FIXED -- $5,000 IN THE FIXED RATE AT 3.5, THEN NEXT PAY PERIOD I START FUNDING MASSMUTUAL AND I MOO AND I KEEP

MY 3.5 AND I START FUNDING A NEW FUND. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I DON'T THINK THAT IS EXACTLY CORRECT. IF YOU DO NOT SELECT ONE OF THE OPTIONS PROVIDED, NEW CONTRIBUTIONS WILL NO LONGER BE ACCEPTED TO YOUR CURRENT FIXED CONTRACT. SO, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO MAKE A DECISION. THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE FOR THE FIRST STATEMENT. SECOND ONE. SO, YOU HAVE THREE OPTIONS. OPTION NUMBER ONE SAYS YOUR CONTRACT IS AMENDED TO LOWER THE GUARANTEED MINIMUM INTEREST RATE ANNUALLY TO THE FOLLOWING SCHEDULE. SO, WE'RE ALREADY IN 2019 AT 3.5%.

AT 2020 IT WILL GO TO 2.5%. IN 2021 TO 2%. 2022 AT ONE PERCENT. THE WAY I READ IT, THAT MEANS THAT YOUR MONEYS, IF YOU HAD THAT $5,000 AND BEGINNING IN 2020 YOUR INTEREST RATE WOULD BE 2.5%. NOT THE 3.5%. BUT I THINK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN HERE IS AND WHERE I THINK COMMISSIONER HENDRY IS GETTING AT IS WHAT IS -- IF I WAS AN EMPLOYEE AND GOING TO TRANSFER MY MONEYS OVER TO MASSMUTUAL, IS THERE A FEE TO DO THAT IS THE FIRST QUESTION WE NEED TO HAVE ANSWERED. THE SECOND WOULD BE WE'RE GOING GET TWO PERCENT IF YOU LEAVE YOUR MONEY IN THE NATI NATIONWIDE. ARE THE TWO THINGS GOING ON. JENNIFER, CAN YOU

ANSWER THOSE >> A COUPLE THINGS. IF YOU ARE TRANSFERRING MONEY FROM NATIONWIDE TO MASSMUTUAL, THEN YOU ARE GOING TO BE LIMITED TO THE TRANSFER AMOUNTS. WHICH IT'S CURRENTLY AT 20%. SO, UNDER OPTION ONE, THE TRANSFER AMOUNTS STAY. UNDER OPTION TWO, IT IS INCREASED FROM 20 TO 40 PERCENT. TYPICALLY THERE ARE ADMINISTRATIVE FEES THAT GO ALONG WITH TRANSACTIONS. I'M NOT PREPARED TODAY TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT THOSE ARE, BUT THAT

IS VERY TYPICAL TO HAVE ADMINISTRATIVE FEES. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: I'M LIKE COMMISSIONER ROLLINS I DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT WE NEED TO DO WITH THIS SITUATION.

>> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: LET ME ASK YOU THIS. DOES ANYTHING PRECLUDE AN EMPLOYEE FROM

PARTICIPATING IN BOTH PLANS >> NO. I PARTICIPATE IN BOTH. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: SO IF I

[02:15:01]

LOOK AT THIS LOGICALLY, AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BEST-CASE SCE SCENARIO, WHETHER YOU ARE GOING TO TRANSFER YOUR MONEY OR NOT, YOUR FOLLOW ON CONTRIBUTIONS SHOULD GO INTO MASSMUTUAL IS THE BOTTOM LINE RIGHT? THAT'S NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO. I MEAN, IF YOU VOTE FOR OPTION ONE AT 2.5% FOR ALL OF 2020 IS ULTIMATELY WHAT'S GOING ON. YOU COULD EVENTUALLY GET OUT OF NAT NATIONWIDE, IF YOU TRANSFER OUT 20% THE SECOND QUARTER, THIRD QUARTER, FOURTH QUARTER AND FIRST QUARTER OF 2021. AND THAT ONLY GIVES YOU 80% TO GET OUT OF THERE. SO, YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A PERCENTAGE RATE. ANOTHER HALF PERCENT GOING INTO 2021 TO GET FULLY OUT OF OPTION ONE ONCE YOU DO THAT. I THINK IT WOULD BEHOOVE US, JENNIFER CAN SIT DOWN WITH THE EMPLOYEES, EACH ONE IS GOING BE DIFFERENT.

THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE VARYING AMOUNTS IN IT THAT SHE CAN LOOK AT IT AND GIVE THEM THE BEST PLAN TO DO. THEN THE FINAL THING I TALKED TO HER ABOUT WAS WE NEED TO RENEGOTIATE. THAT'S WHY SHE'S MENTIONED THAT. I MEAN, A FIXED RATE -- IT IS A GOOD RATE. I MEAN, 3.5. BUT IF THE ECONOMY CONTINUES TO IMPROVE WE SHOULD SEE HIGHER RATES. THEIR MARKET RATE DOES COME INTO PLAY SO THIS MAY BE ALL FOR NOT. BUT I THINK ONE AND I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER BOLLA. I MEAN, TO TAKE A POLL -- IF WE DIDN'T TAKE A POLL WE JUST NEED TO DO THE BEST INTEREST OF THE EMPLOYEES AND TO TAKE THEM INDIVIDUALLY WOULD BE -- AND TO SIT DOWN WITH THEM AND FIGURE IT OUT

>> THE ONLY THING IS THAT I DO HAVE LIMITATIONS. SO, I DON'T KNOW WHO PARTICIPATES IN WHICH FUND. BECAUSE WE'RE THE PASS THROUGH AS THE PLAN SPONSOR. WE FACILITATE THE PERIL -- PAYROLL DEDUCTIONS WHICH GET DIRECTED TO NATIONWIDE OR MASSMUTUAL. BUT IN TERMS OF SAYING WHO PARTICIPATES IN WHICH FUND, THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I HAVE THE LEVEL OF ACCESS FOR. THEN WE DO HAVE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, FOLKS WHO ARE FORMER EMPLOYEES WHO PARTICIPATE AND ONCE THEY'VE NOT MOVED THEIR MONEYS FROM THAT FUND, THEN THEY'RE ALLOWED TO RETAIN THOSE MONEYS. SO, IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT FOR CURRENT EMPLOYEES VERSUS FORMER EMPLOYEES, I DON'T

HAVE A REAL WAY OF GETTING THAT. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: YOUR DIFFICULT TASK IS GOING TO BE

EXPLAINING THIS IN A MEMO. YOU BETTER SET UP A HELP DESK 24/7. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: IF YOU ARE GOING TO KEEP IT SIMPLE YOU GO WITH NUMBER ONE. AND I CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BECAUSE I'M

LICENSED. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WHAT IF YOU NEED ADVICE

[LAUGHTER] >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I CAN'T.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: YOU DON'T TAKE PRIVATE CLIENTS? >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: IT

WOULD BE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: DO WE HAVE TIME TO DO WHAT THE COUNTY

CAN GET. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: MY THOUGHT IS WHEN YOU EXPLAIN THIS TO THE EMPLOYEES AND THEY SEE THEY'RE LOSING THAT THREE-AND-A-HALF PERCENT.

BECAUSE I DO WORK WITH A LOT OF RETIRED EMPLOYEES FROM THE STATE. AND NATIONWIDE IS THE BIG 600 POUND GORILLA THAT WE ALL COMPLETE WITH. THAT'S HOW I KNOW IT IS A SWEET DEAL.

HOWEVER, IF YOU CAN JUST EXPLAIN TO THEM YOU CAN COME OUT 20%, A QUARTER AND MOVE IT OVER FOR 3% IN THE MASSMUTUAL, YOU HAVEN'T HARMED THEM. THEY ONLY LOST HALF A PERCENT. SO THAT WOULD

BE MY SUGGESTION. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: BUT THE DEAL WAS EXPLAINING WHAT HAPPENS WITH

MASSMUTUAL. AREN'T THEY LOOKING TO DO THE SAME THING >> NOT AT THIS TIME.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: THEY'LL HAVE TO EVENTUALLY [LAUGHTER] THAT ACCOUNT IS A REALLY OLD ACCOUNT. THE LAST UPDATE TO THAT WAS IN 2000.

>> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: MY GUESS IS IF YOU PUT OUT AN RFQ, NATIONWIDE WON'T BE COMPETITIVE.

BECAUSE THEIR FEES ARE HIGH. BUT THEY DID HAVE A GREAT FIXED RATE.

>> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: WHAT WOULD SHH YOUR RECOMMENDATION? >> WHAT WAS RECOMMENDED WAS OPTION ONE THEN LOOKING TO THE FUTURE FOR SOME POSSIBLE CHANGES. WHETHER IT WAS TO DO AN IN DEPTH ANALYSIS OF THE PORTFOLIOS TO SEE IF WE WERE AT THE BEST RATES AND ALSO THE BEST

[02:20:01]

ADMINISTRATIVE FEES. OR DOING AN RFP OR RFQ FOR OTHER VENDORS. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I'M

FINE WITH OPTION ONE. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: ME TOO. FOR THE TIME BEING ANYWAY.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: YEAH I THINK THAT WE GO WITH OPTION ONE AND PEOPLE HAVE THE OPTION ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT TO MOVE IT TO MASSMUTUAL. AND MEANTIME WE LOOK AROUND AND SEE WHAT ELSE

MIGHT BE AVAILABLE THAT COULD IMPROVE THEIR SITUATIONS. >> I WILL CERTAINLY SEE -- I'M NOT SURE IF I CAN GET TO THE LEVEL OF DETAIL AS TO WHO PARTICIPATES IN WHAT, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY CRAFT SOMETHIG TO SEND OUT TO EMPLOYEES SO THEY HAVE IT FOR THEIR CONSIDERATION.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THEN WE'LL GET OUR CAR GUY WITH THE SHARP PENCIL GET IN THERE AND

RENEGOTIATE WITH SOME PEOPLE [LAUGHTER] >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: HE DID

PRETTY GOOD ON OCCASION. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: VERY WELL. DO YOU NEED A VOTE OR WE GIVE

YOU DIRECTION? >> I WOULD NEED A VOTE. >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I'LL MOVE THAT WE GO WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TO ACCEPT THE NATIONWIDE OPTION ONE PLAN.

>> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: SECOND. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

MOTION CARRIES 5-0. THANK YOU, JENNIFER. NUMBER 18. WE'VE GOT -- WHO IS HANDLING THAT?

[18. Request by Big Tree Lakes Sections A and B and Silver Sands Estates for maintenance of roads by the County within Sections A and B and Silver Sands Estates]

[19. Request by Big Tree Lakes Section C for creation of a MSBU to perpetually grade Section C private roads]

COURTNEY? REQUEST BY BIG TREE LAKES SECTIONS A AND B AND SILVER SANDS ESTATES FOR MAINTENANCE OF ROADS BY THE COUNTY WITHIN SECTIONS A AND B AND SILVER SANDS ESTATES. I BELIEVE COURTNEY IS GOING TAKE THAT. SORRY, I DIDN'T WARRANT TO TAKE AWAY FROM YOUR DISCUSSION THERE. THOSE WHO PUT IN FOR DISCUSSION ON NUMBER 18, WE'LL CALL YOU UP AS SOON AS WE

TALK HERE THEN WE'LL HEAR FROM YOU FOLKS. >> REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE BIG TREE LAKES HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION HAD MADE CONTACT WITH COMMISSIONER ROLLINS AND THEN WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER. AND I KNOW THAT THE COUNTY MANAGER AND DALE HAVE MET WITH THEM AND WE'VE RECEIVED DOCUMENTS FROM THEM. BUT THE REQUEST THAT THEY HAVE IS FOR THE COUNTY TO TAKE OVER MAINTENANCE OF THE ROADS WITHIN THEIR COMMUNITY. SO, IN YOUR PACKETS YOU HAD A MAP THAT SHOWS YOU -- FOR BIG TREE LAKES THERE ARE THREE DIFFERENT SECTIONS.

THERE'S A, B, AND C. THERE'S ALSO WHAT THEY CALL SILVER SANDS. AND THEN THERE'S FLORIDA FRONTIER. SO, TROY HAS THE MAP THAT I BELIEVE IS IN YOUR PACKET UP ON THE SCREEN. SO WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT REQUESTS HERE. WE WILL DEAL WITH SECTION C SEPARATELY, BUT THE REQUEST BY -- THAT'S PRESENTED IN 18 IS FOR THE AREAS THAT ARE SECTION A, B AND SILVER SANDS, WHICH IS THE WHITE, THE PURPLE, AND I GUESS SORT OF A PINK COLOR. SO, THE BASIS OF THEIR REQUEST IS BACK IN 1979 WHEN THE DEVELOPER WAS PUTTING TOGETHER THIS COMMUNITY, HE CAME TO THE BOARD AND REQUESTED THAT THE BOARD ACCEPT MAINTENANCE FOR THE STREETS IN THOSE THREE SECTIONS ALONG WITH FLORIDA FRONTIER. THE BOARD AT THAT TIME, ACCORDING TO THE MINUTES, AGREED TO ACCEPT MAINTENANCE. YOU THEN MOVE FORWARD TO THE NEXT YEAR, EARLY '80S, AND THE DEVELOPER CAME FORWARD IN CONNECTION WITH FLORIDA FRONTIER, WHICH IS THE SORT OF TEAL COLOR AND THE YELLOW AND RECONFIRMED WITH THE BOARD AFTER THEY HAD BUILT THE ROADS THAT THEY THEN WOULD ACCEPT MAINTENANCE. THE BOARD DID ACCEPT MAINTENANCE. FAST FORWARD TO, I BELIEVE IT WAS THE EARLY '82. THE ROADS WERE THEN CONSTRUCTED IN BIG TREE A AND B. AND THERE AFTER ON A FEW DIFFERENT OCCASIONS THE DEVELOPER CAME TO THE COUNTY BOARD AND REQUESTED THAT THE COUNTY TAKE OVER MAINTENANCE WITH RESPECT TO THOSE ROADS THAT HAD BEEN CONSTRUCTED. AT THAT TIME OVER A YEAR'S PERIOD THE BOARD DEFERRED THE MATTER AND OBTAINED DIFFERENT RESEARCH FROM THE DEVELOPER AS WELL AS THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AT THAT TIME. AND WHEN IT WAS PRESENTED TO THE BOARD, AND I BELIEVE IT WAS '83, DETERMINED THEY WOULD NOT ACCEPT MAINTENANCE OF THOSE ROADS. SO THE COUNTY HAS NEVER MAINTAINED ANY OF THE ROADS IN A, B OR THE SILVER SANDS EXCEPT FOR A COUPLE THAT ARE PAVED. THE HOMEOWNERS, I BELIEVE THEY ARE HERE TO PRESENT TO YOU, ARE REQUESTING

[02:25:04]

THAT BECAUSE THE BOARD BACK IN '79 REQUESTED OR ACCEPTED MAINTENANCE, EVEN THOUGH THE BOARD DECLINED IT IN '83, THAT THE BOARD AGREED TO MOVE FORWARD.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: OKAY. WE'LL LET YOU RECOVER A LITTLE. SO, HOWARD, MAYBE YOU CAN EXPLAIN WHAT TRAN FIRED IN OUR MEETINGS THAT YOU AND DALE HAD WITH OUR HOMEOWNERS?

>> YES, SIR. AGAIN, [INAUDIBLE] MET WITH DALE AND I TO DISCUSS THESE AREAS. WE DID A TOUR OF THE AREA AS COURTNEY HAS STATED SOME ARE DIRT ROADS, SOME ARE PAVED. THE MAIN ARTERIES ARE PAVED AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE MAP HERE. IF YOU LOOK AT IT, THE ONE MAIN ONE IS MA HONGALIA IS A MAIN ROUTE THAT'S PAVED THROUGH. AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, IT'S DIFFICULT TO SEE WHY THERE WAS A FLIP-FLOP. IT COULD HAVE BEEN THE ECONOMY AT THE TIME OR WHAT THE BOARD WANTED TO DO AT THE TIME FOR VOTING IT BACK OUT. DALE HAS SPENT A LOT OF TIME FIGURING OUT OWNERSHIP OF THE ROADS AND DIFFERENT ASPECTS TO THAT THAT WILL COME IN TO PLAY FOR THE DECISION.

WHICH HE CAN COME UP AND EXPLAIN THAT. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE UNDER 18 REALLY TO TAKE A LOOK AT ARE A AND B AND SILVER SANDS ESTATES. WHAT TO DO AND MOVING FORWARD WITH. I CAN TELL YOU FROM AN ECONOMIC STANDPOINT, THE BURDEN TO THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT WOULD BE THAT WE WOULD HAVE TOTRACT THIS OUT. AND THIS WOULD NEGATIVELY AND SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACT THE DOLLAR AM AMOUNTS, THE PER ADISTY THAT WE WOULD GRADE OTHER ADDITIONAL GRADE ROADS. IT'S ABOUT THREE WEEKS, CORRECT DALE, AND THIS WOULD INCREASE IT TO -- NOT THE EXACT AMOUNT BUT DEFINITELY GOING TO ANOTHER WEEK. THAT'S A GIVEN IF NOT EVEN TO FIVE WEEKS.

SO, ALSO BECAUSE THERE IS BEEN KIND OF TALK BACK AND FORTH WHERE THOSE MONEYS WOULD COME FROM AND WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE BRIEFED YOU ALL CORRECTLY ON THAT ONE. SO, REMEMBER THERE'S SOME ROADS THAT ARE HERE. AND I WISH -- I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME FOR DALE TO COME UP AND EXPLAIN WHICH ROADS ARE MAINTAINED. AND I WANT YOU TO ALSO KNOW THEIR HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION CHARGED AN ANNUAL FEE. IF I REMEMBER IT WAS EITHER $75 OR $78 A YEAR SO THOSE HOMEOWNERS THAT WERE IN THIS AREA, A, B AND SILVER SANDS, SO THAT THEY WOULD GET THEIR GRADING. THEIR GRADING OF A PER ADISTY THEN FOR THE $78 I ALMOST THINK WAS IT QUARTERLY,

DALE? I CAN'T REMEMBER >> WHAT WAS TOLD ABOUT A YEAR AGO THE ROADS WERE GRADED FOUR TIME AS YEAR. BECAUSE THEY HAD ASKED US AT THE TIME WHAT WOULD IT COST IF WE HAD THE CAPABILITIES TO GO IN THERE AND GRADE ALL THE ROADS. AND OUR ROUGH ESTIMATE WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, JUST MAP MEASURING AND THINGS LIKE THAT WAS ABOUT $100,000 A YEAR TO PICK UP A LITTLE OVER 20 MILES OF ROADWAYS. OF DIRT ROADS. NOW WE HAVE 175 MILES OF DIRT ROADS THAT WE MAINTAIN RIGHT NOW. YOU CAN SEE THAT WOULD BE A RATHER LARGE BURDEN TO PUT ON IT, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, IN ONE AREA. I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN IN CONTACT WITH PUTNAM COUNTY. ALL OF THEIR MSBUS ARE GRADED BY CONTRACT. SO, I'VE BEEN REVIEW THROWING CONTRACT. TO SEE IF I COULD USE THEIR CONTRAT OR IF I COULD HAVE TO DEVELOP MY OWN SPECIFICS AND BID IT OUT. BUT TO ADD 27 MILES OF DIRT ROAD IT WOULD TRULY BE A BURDEN ON WHAT WE'RE DOING AND IT WOULD BE A BURDEN, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY IN THE KEYSTONE AREA. BECAUSE WE DIVIDE OUR GRADING UP, YOU KNOW, BY AREA. SO I WOULD BE DOING A LOT OF SHIFTING AROUND TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH WHAT WE HAVE.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ALL RIGHT. ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS FOR DALE UP TO THIS POINT?

>> IN A AND B AND THE OWNERSHIP ISSUES, THAT -- THEY WERE PLATTED IN 1973. TO THE RIGHT-OF-WAYS WERE GIVEN TO THE COUNTY THROUGH AN ADOPTION AND DEDICATION PROCESS. YOU KNOW,

[02:30:06]

SORT OF LIKE WHAT WE DO NOW. IT IS THE COUNTY'S, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY TAKING OVER THE MAINTENANCE OF THESE ROADWAYS JUST LIKE WE DO NOW. WE DO A RECORD PLAT. YOU ALL APPROVE THREE RECORD PLATS TONIGHT. LATER ON YOU WILL APPROVE WHEN THE CONSTRUCTION IS FINISHED YOU ALL WILL APPROVE THE MAINTENANCE OF THEM. OF COURSE WITH THE NEW ONES WE'RE DOING MSBUS ON THOSE

NOW JUST FOR THE RESURFACING. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: SO WE'VE NOT DONE THE MAINTENANCE ON

THESE ROADS SINCE 1993? >> THERE ARE SEVERAL ROADS THAT HAVE BEEN PAVED. LIKE M MR. WANNAMAKER SAID ONE OF THE MAIN ROADS HAS BEEN PAVED. THAT IS A TRULY LONG ROAD. THEN THERE'S SILVER SANDS WHICH HAS BEEN PAVED. THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION PAVED THE ROAD AROUND THE LAKE. THE CONNECTOR BETWEEN 315 AND 214 WAS PAVED BY THE COUNTY ALSO. SO WE DO HAVE

SOME PAVED ROADS IN THE A AND B. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: AND WE MAINTAIN THOSE

>> WE DO MAINTAIN THOSE. AND COULDN'T FIND ANY RECORDS ON HOW OR WHY OTHER THAN THEY WERE WELL TRAVELED ROADS AND SOMEBODY MADE A DECISION AT THE COUNTY YEARS AGO TO PAVE THEM.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: ALL THE REST OF THESE THEY'RE DEDICATED TO THE COUNTY. WHAT DOES THAT

MEAN >> IT MEANS THE RIGHT-OF-WAYS ARE DEDICATED TO THE COUNTY.

SO, TECHNICALLY THE COUNTY OWNS THE ROADS. THE COUNTY DID NOT CONSTRUCT ANY OF THE DIRT ROADS THERE NOR HAS THE COUNTY MAINTAINED THEM. AND WE HAVE -- I MEAN, YOU CAN LOOK AT A LOT OF SUBDIVISIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, IN THE SAME PREDICAMENT TO WHERE PRIOR TO THE MID-70S YOU COULD DEVELOP LAND AND YOU DID NOT HAVE TO BUILD THE ROADS.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WHAT ABOUT DRAINAGE? >> I KNOW THERE ARE DRAINAGE EAS EASEMENTS. THIS IS A SANDY AREA. THAT'S PROBABLY LITTLE DRAINAGE. THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD HAVE TO LOOK AT AND INCLUDE IN THE COST OF, YOU KNOW, MAINLY TANING THE ROAD. LIKE I SAID, HAVE NOT DONE THAT AT THIS POINT.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: THAT'S USUALLY THE SCARY NUMBER >> A LOT OF TIMES IT TRULY IS.

THEN GETTING THE EASEMENTS THAT YOU NEED. IT'S ONE THING TO PUT DRAINAGE ALONG SIDE THE ROAD BUT YOU HAVE TO DISCHARGE IT SOMEWHERE AND YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT TO A GOOD POINT OF OUTFALL

OTHERWISE YOU ARE JUST MOVING SAND AROUND IN A NEIGHBORHOOD. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: DRAINAGE

FEE COULD HAVE HELPED WITH THAT RIGHT >> I'M NOT SAYING TO SAY SIR

[LAUGHTER] >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: THIS IS A CHALLENGING SITUATION ON A NUMBER OF FRONTS AND THERE'S A LOT OF COMPLEXITY AND NUANCES TO A VARIETY OF ISSUES. BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS IMPORTANT AND IS NEEDED IN THE COMMUNITY IS CLARITY ON WHETHER THE COUNTY IS PLANNING TO MAINTAIN THESE MOVING FORWARD. BECAUSE, IF THEY ARE, THEN THAT SOLVES ONE PROBLEM. IF THEY'RE NOT THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT OTHER OPTIONS WHETHER IT'S RECONSTITUTING AS A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION AND FOR THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION TO CONTINUE TO PAY. OR THE OTHER OPTION WOULD BE TO TRY TO DO MSBUS ON THESE TWO SECTIONS.

OBVIOUSLY, AS THE COUNTY ATTORNEY STATED, THE SECTION C IS A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION.

BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF A CONFUSING THING. SO THAT'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, IN DISCUSSIONS WITH STAFF WE FELT LIKE IT MADE THE MOST SENSE TO BRING IT TO THE FULL BOARD AND LET YOU GUYS, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY MAKE A DECISION SO THAT ALL OF US MAKE A DECISION MOVING FORWARD SO THAT THERE'S CLARITY AND THE HOMEOWNERS CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH MAKING DECISIONS IN TERMS OF HOW

THEY'RE GOING TO PROCEED TO GET THEIR ROADS MAINTAINED. >> IN A AND B THERE'S A LITTLE OVER 13 MILES OF DIRT ROADS IN BETWEEN THE A SECTION AND THE B SECTION.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: HOW MANY FAMILIES ARE WE TALKING ABOUT TOTAL HERE?

>> HUNDREDS. >> HALF OF OUR COMMUNITY IS MAINTAINED BY THE COUNTY

>> THAT'S FLORIDA FRONTIER. LIKE COURTNEY HAD SAID IN HER PRESENTATION.

>> THAT'S IN THE ORANGE AND THE DARK GREEN ON THE SOUTHERN PART. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WE'RE

MAINTAINING THAT >> WE ACCEPTED IT -- THE PREVIOUS COUNTY COMMISSIONS

ACCEPTED FLORIDA FRONTIER FOR MAINTENANCE >> I'D LIKE TO ANSWER SOME OF

THESE QUESTIONS. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU GRADED ROADS

THERE? >> WE HAVE NOT GRADED ROADS. WELL IN PART OF FLORID FRONTIER THERE ARE DIRT ROADS AND WE GRADE THEM EVERY THREE WEEKS BECAUSE THEY WERE ACCEPTED BY

THE COUNTY. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: OKAY. >> THE FLORIDA FRONTIER ROADS WERE ACCEPTED BY THE BOARD IN A SEPARATE RESOLUTION. THAT WAS TAKEN TO THE BOARD IN EARLY 1980

[02:35:01]

AND THERE WAS A SPECIFIC RESOLUTION JUST FOR THOSE FLORIDA FRONTIER ROADS.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: SO ALL THE ROADS IN AREA ARE TAKEN CARE OF? >> RIGHT. IN FLORIDA FRONTIER THERE'S REALLY LITTLE OVER TWO MILES OF ROAD THAT WE GRADE ON A REGULAR BASIS. SORT OF THE ORANGE COLOR, MOST OF THE ROADS IN THERE ARE PAVED. AND THEY WERE PAVED BY THE DEVELOPER.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: TO OUR STANDARDS? >> HOPEFULLY TO OUR STANDARDS

BACK IN 1982. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: COMPLET WITH DRAINAGE?

>> WE'LL HOPE. THERE'S A LOT OF LAKES IN THAT AREA SO. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: DALE,

HOW PEL OF THESE UNITS HAVE CURRENT MSBUS? ANY? >> NONE OF THEM.

>> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: JUST THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION >> TO ANSWER THE QUESTION THERE ARE 1986 LOTS IN THE COMMUNITY TOTAL. BETWEEN ALL OF THE SECTIONS.

>> DO YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO THEIR PRESENTATION? >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: I THINK THAT

WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR MR. COLEMAN TO COME UP. >> THANK YOU. I'VE GOT SOME PAPE PAPERWORK. MY NAME IS JAMES COAL MAN. I LIVE AT 5180 COUNTY ROAD 214. I AM PRESIDENT OF VICTORY LAKES. I REPRESENT THE LOTS OWNED. MY JOB IS TO ASK YOU THE CLAY COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND RIGHT A WRONG THAT HAS BEEN DONE TO MY NEIGHBORHOOD. TO DO THAT WE REQUEST THAT YOU APPROVE MAINTENANCE BY THE COUNTY OF THE GRADED ROADS THAT WERE APPROVED 36 YEARS AGO. A TIMELINE OF EVENTS WITH DOCUMENTATION IS ATTACHED. VICTORY LAKES IS COMPROMISED OF SIX SUBDIVISIONS -- FLORIDA FRONTIER ONE AND TWO, BIG TREE LAKE SECTIONS A, B AND C AND SILVER SANDS ESTATE. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF C THESE PARCELS WERE PLATTED PRIOR TO JULY 1, 1973, SO AS TO AVOID BEING SUBJECT TO ORDINANCE 74-7 WHICH REQUIRED ASPHALT PAVING PRIOR TO ACCEPTANCE OF ROADS FOR MAINTENANCE BY THE COUNTY. SECTION C WAS PLATTED AFTER THE CUT OFF AND IS NOT THE SUBJECT OF THIS DISCUSSION. IF YOU WILL FOLLOW ALONG ON THE TIMELINES IN FRONT OF YOU. YOU'VE GOT SOME OTHER MEETINGS. THE FIRST THING IS ALL BIG TREE LAKE SUBDIVISIONS EXCEPT C WERE PLATTED UNDER THE RULES IN EFFECT PRIOR TO THE ORDINANCE 74-7 AND ARE OWNED BY CLAY COUNTY. THE SECOND THING IS. THE BOARD ACCEPTED ALL COUNTY OWNED ROADS FOR MAINTENANCE AT THE SEPTEMBER 11, 1979, MEETING WHICH I HAVE A COPY OF THE MINUTES THERE. NUMBER THREE.

ALL ROADS WERE CONSTRUCTED UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF COUNTY OFFICIALS IN ACCORDANCE WITH DETAILED PLANS APPROVED BY CLAY COUNTY AND WERE SUBSEQUENTLY INSPECTED AND APPROVED BY THE COUNTY ENGINEER AND OTHER OFFICIALS. CLAY COUNTY HAS PREVIOUSLY ACCEPTED ROADS UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES FOR MAINTENANCE. THERE'S ACTUALY TWO LETTERS IN THERE FROM THE COUNTY ENGINEER THAT REFLECT THAT. FOURTH. AFTER ACCEPTANCE AND APPROVAL OF ALL ROADS SENT C, VICTORY LAKES COUNCIL BROUGHT FORTH THE REQUEST OF THE BOARD TO DISCUSSION SECTION C.

DEVELOPERS AND COUNTY ENGINEER GAVE REPORT AS REQUESTED BY THE BOARD WHICH LIKELY INCLUDED THE FACTS OF ACCEPTANCE AND SUBSEQUENT SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF ROADS ACCORDING TO COUNTY STANDARDS. SIXTH. ABOUT SIX MONTHS LATER THIS WOULD BE IN 1984, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY BRINGS AN OPINION THAT THE COUNTY IS NOT OBLIGATED TO MAINTAIN ROADS IN BIG TREE LAKES A AND B. THE BOARD VOTE 5-0 TO NOT MAINTAIN ROADS. NOTHING IS SAID ABOUT FRONTIER 1 AND 2 AND SILVER SANDS ESTATES EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE ACCEPTED AND COMPLETED IN LIKE MANNER. ROADS IN FRONTIER 1 AND 2 ARE COUNTY MAINTAINED BUT NOT IN THE OTHER SUBDIVISIONS. IN CONCLUSION WE SEE NO RHYME OR REASON AS TO WHY SOME OF OUR ROADS ARE COUNTY MAINTAINED AND OTHERS ARE NOT.

HAVING TWO TIERS OF ROAD MAINTENANCE HAS CAUSED A SPLIT IN OUR COMMUNITY. ONE GETS HIS ROAD SIDE MOWD THE OTHER DOES NOT. ONE IS UNHAPPY THEY'RE PAYING TO MAINTAIN SOMEONE ELSE'S ROADS BUT NOT THEIR OWN. IT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE THIS WAY. PROPERTY OWNER DUES WERE INITIALLY SET AT $25 A YEAR SO CLEARLY THE DEVELOPER DID NOT PLAN FOR US TO MAINTAIN OUR OWN ROADS. THE DEVELOPER DID THEIR DUE DILIGENCE TO ENSURE THE COUNTY WOULD MAINTAIN OUR ROADS

[02:40:04]

BUT THE COUNTY BROKE THEIR COMMITMENT TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTY THAT DAY IN 1984. THE AFFECTS OF THIS PREVIOUS BOARD'S ACTIONS HAVE BEEN DETRIMENTAL TO OUR COMMUNITY BUT WE ARE NOT HERE TO AFFIX BLAME FOR THE DAMAGE DONE. IT WOULD NOT BE OUT OF LINE TO ASK FOR REPARATIONS FOR 36 YEARS OF ROAD MAINTENANCE WE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FORCED TO PAY. BUT IT'S ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT HAPPEN AND MOVE TO START AFRESH. PLEASE DO THE RIGHT THING AND VOTE YES TODAY TO MAINTAIN THE ROADS IN BIG TREE LAKES SECTIONS A, B AND SILVER SANDS ESTATE. WHAT WILL SETTLE THIS ISSUE IS A 5-0 VOTE IN OUR FAVOR TODAY AND WE'LL TAKE IT FROM HERE FROM CLAY COUNTY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. IF I CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS I'D BE HAPPY TO.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: HAVE YOU IN THE INTERIM YEARS BETWEEN 1983 AND1984 HAVE YOU COME TO THE

BOARD TO ASK FOR THE BOARD TO TAKE OVER? >> I DO NOT KNOW THAT. I AM A RECENT ADDITION TO THE BOARD. ONE OF THE FAULTS OF THE FLORIDA 720 STATUTE IS THAT THESE SORT OF ASSOCIATIONS LIKE OURS ARE MANNED BY LAY PEOPLE. I'M NOT A PROFESSIONAL. I'M NOT A LAWYER.

I'M A PAINTER. AND I JUST CAME TO DO MY BIT TO TRY TO HELP OUR COMMUNITY. SO, UNFORTUNATELY,, WE'RE NOT VERSED IN THE WAYS OF THIS. THIS WAS QUITE A HOMEWORK PROJECT FOR US. SO IT'S POSSIBLE THAT SOMEBODY HAS COME IN THE PAST TO TRY TO GET THIS WRONG RIGHTED. I CAN'T TELL YOU THAT. ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT IN THE COURSE OF US TRYING TO LOOK THROUGH PAPERS AND FIND THINGS ABOUT WHY SOME OF OUR ROADS ARE MAINTAINED AND SOME ARE NOT, WE CAME ACROSS THESE THINGS AND WE SAW WHERE THE BOARD SEEMED TO BE UNILATERALLY JUST CHANGED THEIR MIND TO NOT ACCEPT THEM AFTER THEY SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THEM. AND SO WE FOLLOWED THAT AND WE'RE HERE TODAY.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: MR. COLEMAN HAVE YOU LOOKED AT ANY OTHER OPTIONS OR THIS IS YOUR FIRST AND GREAT BID?

>> WE PRESENTLY TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN ROADS. BUT AS SOMEBODY SAID BEFORE OUR DUES ARE -- THEY'RE UP TO $78 A YEAR. SO THAT'S QUITE A STRETCH TO MAINTAIN THESE ROADS WITH THAT LITTLE BIT

OF MONEY. SO WE DO THE BEST WE CAN. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: THAT IS COMING TO AN END UNLESS YOU GET RECONSTITUTED. THAT'S THE REASON IT'S BEEN BROUGHT UP HERE

RECENTLY >> EXACTLY. WE DETERMINED THAT A PREVIOUS BOARD HAD FAILED TO DO THE PROPER PAPERWORK TO KEEP OUR COVENANTS AND RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE AND SO NOW WE'RE BASICALLY ON A VOLUNTARY BASIS WITH DUES. SO, WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT.

>> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: THE $78, WAS THE ENTIRETY OF THAT SPENT ON ROAD MAINTENANCE?

>> THE GREATER PERCENTAGE, YES, SIR. WE ALSO HAVE LAKES AND PARKS THAT WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN

AS WELL. BUT THE ROAD IS OUR BIGGEST ITEM BY FAR. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE RECENT DECISION WE MADE ON MSBUS AS FAR AS NEW SUBDIVISIONS?

>> NO SIR. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MR. COLEMAN AT THIS POINT? MR. COLEMAN, HANG IN THERE, WE MAY COME BACK TO YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU SIR. CHIME >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: MAYA YOU WANT TO COME UP

>> MAYA HOUR. JIM'S DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB EXPLAINING THE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE WE HAVE PROVIDED TO THE COUNTY SHOWING THAT WE FEEL YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN TAKING CARE OF OUR ROADS.

AND HOPEFULLY SHOULD BE TAKING CARE OF OUR ROADS. SO, I'M NOT GOING TO CONTINUE SPEAKING ON THOSE ITEMS. I'M HERE TO SPEAK MORE ABOUT THE COMMISSIONERS ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES AND THE AFFECTS OF THE COMMISSIONERS AT THE TIME IN' 84 PULLING OUT OF MAINTENANCING OUR ROADS. WHAT APPEARS TO BE FOR MORE RHYME OR REASON. THEY DID COME TO THEM ON SECTION SEAT. WHAT IT APPEARS IS THERE WAS NO RESPONSE ON SECTION C. THEY JUST PULLED OUT OF A AND B ON US. AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN ACTUALLY ADDRESS SECTION C IF YOU LOOK AT THE MINUTES. SO THAT DAY IN' 84 WHEN THE COMMISSIONERS DID NOT CONSIDER THE EFFECTS IT WOULD HAVE KEEPING ALMOST HALF OF OUR ROAD SYSTEM WHILE LEAVING THE OTHER HALF FOR US TO MAINTAIN, HAVING TWO TIERS OF ROAD MAINTENANCE -- COUNTY AND PRIVATE -- HAS CAUSED A GREAT DIVIDE IN THE YEARS TO COME IN OUR COMMUNITY AND CONTINUES TO DO SO TO THIS DAY. I MEAN, WE HAVE SOME IN OUR COMMUNITY WHO BELIEVE OUR POA DOESN'T EVEN NEED TO EXIST BECAUSE THEY HAVE YOUR SERVICE. THEY FEEL LIKE THEY PAY THEIR DUES FOR NOTHING. THIS DEBATE HAS HAPPENED BECAUSE OUR ORGANIZATION HAS BEEN FORCED TO USE THE BULK OF ASSESSMENTS TO PROVIDE ROAD MAINTENANCE INSTEAD OF AMENITIES FOR OUR

[02:45:05]

COMMUNITY. HOW CAN WE COMPARE TO THE COUNTY MAINTENANCE? I MEAN, IF YOU ARE A PROPERTY OWNER RECEIVING COUNTY MAINTENANCE YOU ARE ANGRY BECAUSE YOU ARE PAYING INTO A SYSTEM TO MAINTAIN SOMEONE ELSE'S ROADS. IF YOU ARE A PROPERTY OWNER RECEIVING MAINTENANCE BY BIG TREE, YOU ARE ANGRY BECAUSE YOU GET ROAD MAINTENANCE FOUR TIMES A YEAR.

AND YOU GUYS GIVE IT EVERY THREE WEEKS. ALMOST HALF THE NEIGHBORS THERE ARE ANGRY MOST OF THE TIME. THE BOARD MEETINGS AREN'T FUN LET'S JUST SAY. WHILE MANY OF US NOT ONLY BELIEVE WE SHOULD EXIST BUT EXIST THE WAY THAT A DEVELOPER HAD PLANNED FOR US TO EXIST THE COUNTY MAINTAINED THE ROADS FOR SECTIONS F1, 2■, A, B AND SSE. FOR THIS REASON WE WERE CREATED.. NOT TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS BUT TO PROVIDE AMENITIES TO OUR PROVIDE OWNERS WITH THEIR ASSESSMENTS. AMENITIES ALL THE OWNERS COULD SEE, TOUCH AND FEEL, THAT ALL COULD BENEFIT FROM IF THEY CHOSE TO. LIKE BEAUTIFUL PARKS OR DOCKS FOR OUR LAKES, POSSIBLE RESERVATION CENTER, ONE OF OUR LARGEST LAKES. WE COULD HAVE AFFORDED THESE HAD WE NOT SPENT MOST OF OUR MONEY ON ROADS OVER THE PAST 30 YEARS. AFTER PREVIOUS COMMISSIONERS DECIDED TO REMOVE THAT MAINTENANCE FOR NO REASON. FF1 AND 2 WE RE-MANED WHILE BEING APPROVED ON THE SAME DAY.

IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE MINUTES IN 1979 ON PAGE 222, FF1, FF2, A AND B, WERE ON THOSE MINUTES AND APPROVED TOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME. SO WE BELIEVE IF WE CAN PROVIDE THESE AMENITIES MOVING FORWARD NOT ONLY WOULD IT HELP TOWARDS OUR REVITALIZATION OF THE RECONSTITTION OF OUR COMMUNITY BUT THAT OUR COMMUNITY WOULD BE A MORE DESIRABLE PLACE TO THOSE LOOKING TO BECOME A RESIDENT OF KEYSTONE HEIGHTS AND WANTING TO BUILD HOMES IN THIS AREA RETURNING PROVIDED INCREASE REVENUE FOR THE COUNTY BENEFITTING EVERYONE. IN CLOSING I ASK YOU THE COUNTY -- THE CLAY COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND TO RIGHT THE WRONG THAT WE FEEL HAS BEEN DONE TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WE REQUEST TODAY THAT YOU DO APPROVE MAINTENANCE BY THE COUNTY OF THE GRADED ROADS THAT WERE APPROVED FOR US 36 YEARS AGO AND WERE TAKEN AWAY. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. I DO WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO COURTNEY AND MR. WAN AMAKER AND DALE FOR ALL YOUR HELP IN GETTING US HERE TODAY. WE DO APPRECIATE THAT.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: HOW MANY HOMES ARE WE TALK ABOUT AGAIN? >> ALMOST 2,000. LOTS

>> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: NOT ALL OF THEM ARE BUILT. HALF? DO WE HAVE A THOUSAND HOMES THERE?

>> WE'RE CLOSE TO EIGHT HOMES. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: 800? >> YEAH. THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM. IT WOULD BE VERY DESIRABLE PLACE IF WE COULD USE OUR MONEY TO BUILD UP OUR

AMENITIES BUT WE HAVE BEEN BURDENED >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: HOW LONG HAS

IT BEEN $78 A YEAR >> IT STARTED AT $25. BECAUSE OF THIS ROAD SITUATION CCRS HAVE PROHIBITED THE BOARD FROM INCREASE MORTGAGE THAN TEN PERCENT A YEAR SO THEY'VE SLOWLY INCREASED IT AND IT'S TAKEN THEM THIS LONG TO GET THERE. WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN BEHIND THE EIGHT

BALL. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: EVERY YEAR FROM $25 TO $78 THEY'VE

INCREASED 10 PERCENT >> I HAVEN'T DONE THE MATH BUT IT'S BEEN SLOW -- I HAVEN'T DONE THE MATH TO SEE IF IT'S BEEN EXACTLY TEN PERCENT. BUT IT PROBABLY HAS BEEN CLOSE TO THAT

TO GET THERE. YOU ARE STARTING AT $25 THAT'S $2.50. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: I AM AWARE OF

THAT. I CAN DO MATH >> I WASN'T TRYING TO SAY YOU WEREN'T.

>> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: EVERYONE IS NOT PAYING $78. IS EVERYONE OUT THERE PAYING THE $78?

>> YOU USUALLY HAVE 380 OR SO I THINK THAT DON'T OUT OF THE 19. >> AT THIS POINT IT'S

VOLUNTARILY. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: THAT'S THE CHALLENGE EVEN IF YOU SAID STICK WITH HOW YOU HAVE BEEN DOING IT, BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T RECONSTITUTED THEY WON'T BE ABLE

TO COMPEL. >> WE HAVE NO ABILITY TO ASSESS AT THIS POINT.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN IN THAT STATE THIS >> WE DISCOVERED IT IN FEBRUARY

OF THIS YEAR. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: SO YOU ARE LIKELY GOING TO DECLINE

QUITE A BIT FROM HERE ON OUT >> YES, SIR. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'VE GOT

ONE THE SAME WAY. WE'RE DOWN TO 40% >> WE ARE ATTEMPTING

REVITALIZATION NOW. WE ARE. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WELL-- >> BUT THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR

THERE. WE FEEL THIS IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT WAS A VALID -- >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IF YOU DON'T PAY FOR IT I'VE GOT TO PAY FOR IT. AND I'VE GOT TO ASK THE REST OF THE COUNTY. THERE'S NO

[02:50:04]

MAGIC HERE THE MONEY HAS GOT TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE. YOU ARE USING THE ROADS NOT ME. I MEAN, I AM JUST SPEAKING -- SGLU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. LIKE I SAID THOUGH YOU GUYS PUT US IN THE PREDICAMENT, NOT YOU BUT THE COMMISSIONERS IN '84 BUT THE COMMISSIONERS PUT US IN A

PREDICAMENT WHERE HALF OF THE COMMUNITY YOU ARE TAKING CARE. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: OUR NEWEST POLICY IS IF A DEVELOPER DEVELOPS A ROAD -- A COMMUNITY, HE'S GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO BUILD THE ROADS OR MAINTAIN THE ROADS IN THERE FOREVER AND EVER. WE CAN'T AFFORD TO CONTINUE TO

TAKE MAINTENANCE ON ALL THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT >> THIS IS OLD.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: BUT WE HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING FOR IT UP UNTIL NOW

>> WAY BACK IN THE '70S. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO HELP YOU PAY FOR YOUR OWN ROADS BUT AS FAR AS PEOPLE IN OAK LEAF PAYING FOR ROADS IN KEYSTONE THAT WE

HAVEN'T PAID FOR-- >> WE ABOUT DID THAT WITH THE STORM DRAINS.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: YOU FIXED US ON THE STORM DRAINS. I UNDERSTAND THAT.

>> THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE ASKING FOR. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'LL

RETURN THE FAVOR IF I CAN. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: OLEATE LOTILY WE DIDN'T. IF YOU USE THAT SAME

LOGIC-- >> NO THE LOGIC I AM USING HERE IS JUST THAT WE TECHNICALLY ARE LOOKING AT OUR DOCUMENTS AND THE PROMISES THAT WERE MADE BY PREVIOUS COMMISSIONERS IS REALLY

THE ONLY LOGIC WE'RE USING. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: THE LAST GO IN '83 THEY RENEGED THAT.

BLAME IT ON THOSE GUYS [LAUGHTER] THIS IS A NEW DEAL ALL RIGHT.

>> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: THIS IS REMINISCENT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE INDIANS OUT WEST. HOW MANY DOCUMENTS DID WE SIGN WITH THEM AND PROMISE THEM THE WORLD AND GAVE THEM NOTHING.

AND TOOK EVERYTHING THEY HAD. THIS KIND OF FALLING INTO THE SAME SITUATION.

>> MAY I SAY ONE MORE THING? >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: AT THE MICROPHONE QUICKLY

>> THANK YOU. IN WRITING THIS UP AND WRITING THESE PAPERS AND GOING THROUGH, I NOTICED IN THE 1984 WHEN THE LAWYER GAVE HIS OPINION THAT THE BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS WAS NOT OBLIGATED TO PAY. WHEN I WAS WRITING I WROTE OBLIGED. AND I THOUGHT YOU KNOW WHAT, I THOUGHT THOSE WORDS MEANT THE SAME THING. SO I LOOKED THEM UP. AND I NOTICED IT WAS ALWAYS OBLIGATED IN THE MINUTES. AND THE DIFFERENCE IS OBLIGATED MEANS THAT BASICALLY I CAN'T FORCE YOU TO DO IT.

OBLIGED MEANS THAT YOU WOULD DO IT OUT OF MORAL PURPOSE. OUT OF A MORAL -- THAT YOU ARE DOING IT BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. SEE THEY PROMISED US. THEY TOLD US THEY WOULD DO IT. THEN THEY RENEGED. AND SO WERE THEY OBLIGED? CLEARLY NOT. WERE THEY OBLIGATED? NO. THEY WERE OBLIGED THOUGH. THEY WEREN'T OBLIGATED. HE FOUND A LOOPHOLE. SO, WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE IT IN YOUR HANDS. YOU KNOW, WE ASK YOU TO VOTE YES BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. I RECOGNIZE THAT YOU CAN PROBABLY FIND A WAY OUT OF IT. BUT WE'RE GOING ASK YOU TO DO THE RIGHT

THING. THANK YOU. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: THIS PARTICULAR BOARD HAS BEEN OPERATING UNDER OBLIGATIONS OTHER THAN JUST YOURS. AND I DON'T MEAN GOING BACK 30 YEARS AGO. WE HAD TO REVERSE A DECISION A PREVIOUS BOARD MADE FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY IN KEYSTONE. I THINK WE GOT SUED FOR THAT DIDN'T WE? BUT ANY WAY WE HAD TO DO IT -- THAT'S ANOTHER STORY. WHOEVER MADE THAT DECISION I DON'T KNOW WHO WAS ON THE BOARD THEN THEY PROBABLY HAD THEIR REASONS. BUT THROUGH THE YEARS THOSE REASONS HAVE GOT SOMEWHAT SKEWED AND REALLY NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE ANYMORE EXCEPT FOR THE WORDS ON A PAPER. AND I AGREE WITH YOU SOUNDS LIKE THEY THEIR INTENTIONS WAS AT THAT TIME TO HELP YOU FOLKS OUT. BUT USUALLY ECONOMICALLY, THAT'S WHERE IT FALLS THROUGH THE CRACK. THE ECONOMICS JUST DON'T SUPPORT IT AND THEN THEY BACK OFF OF IT AND START JUSTIFYING WHY THEY'RE NOT DOING TO DO IT.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS? COMMISSION ROLLINS?

>> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THIS P BASED ON THE HISTORIC TIMELINE

OF EVENTS. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE'RE WAITING ON A SECOND, I'LL JUST SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THIS LATER INFORMATION, I'M NOT ALL THAT COMFORTABLE ON MAKING A DECISION

[02:55:02]

RIGHT THIS MINUTE. I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A TIME CONSTRAINT BECAUSE OF THEIR SITUATION WITH HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION AND, OBVIOUSLY, THE MAINTENANCE OF THE ROADS, BUT I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT THE FOLKS IN SECTION C ARE TALKING ABOUT WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT DOOR BEFORE I START MAKING DECISIONS ON OTHER THINGS. AND HEAR FROM THEM AS WELL. SO WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? WE'LL MOVE FORWARD. IF NOT, WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS MAYBE BRING THIS BACK AFTER WE GET A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THIS MORE AND MAKE A DETERMINATION AFTER WE

HEAR FOLKS FROM SECTION C AS TO WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IT IS A WHOLE KIND OF SEPARATE -- THEY WANT AN MSBU AND THEN SOME ARE NOT WANTING A MSBU. BUT THERE'S -- WHATEVER THE DECISION IS ON THIS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER WON'T REALLY HAVE AN AFFECT ON WHAT THE GOAL OR DECISION IS ON SECTION C.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: WELL TO ME IT DOES. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: NO ONE IS ASKING FOR SECTION C TO BE AN MAINTAINED BY THE COUNTY WITHOUT AN MSBU.

>> COULD I SAY SOMETHING ON SECTION C? >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: IF YOU WANT TO JUST HOLD ON, WE'RE GOING TO FINISH THIS THEN WE'LL GET TO SECTION C. YES, MA'AM. IF YOU

BE PATIENT WITH ME FOR A LITTLE BIT LONGER. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: MAYBE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY -- I'M JUST LOOKING FOR OPTIONS, FOLKS. WHAT WOULD BE THE POSSIBILITY, THE ECONOMIC POSSIBILITY OR THE BURDEN ON THESE FOLKS IF THEY DID SET UP MSBUS FOR THIS ENTIRE AREA? DALE, CAN YOU ADD SOMETHING TO THAT? I MEAN, THAT'S WORKED PRETTY GOOD, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO DOUBLE WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY IN OR REDUCE IT OR

WHAT. >> UNTIL WE GO THROUGH THE FULL ANALYSIS OF WHO WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE MSBU, BECAUSE WHEN YOU CREATE AN MSBU YOU CHARGE EVERYBODY THAT USES IT NOT NECESSARILY THE PEOPLE WHO FRONT IT. THEN THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE IN A AND B THAT ARE ALREADY FUNDING ON COUNTY MAINTAINED ROADS. SO, DO WE PULL THEM INTO THE MSBU? DO THEY TAKE THEM OUT? WHAT I TOLD THEM RIGHT NOW THE LOWEST MSBU WHICH IS BLUE JAY IS $125 A YEAR. I THINK MY HIGHEST MSBU IS INDIAN TRAILS AND I THINK IT'S $245 A YEAR. SO WE WOULD BE SOMEWHERE IN THAT RANGE AND I THINK THAT WOULD STILL BE A GOOD RANGE EVEN IF I CONTRACTED IT OUT BECAUSE WE DID TAKE IT OVER AS AN MSBU I WOULD CONTRACT IT OUT BECAUSE I WOULD TAKE THEIR MONEY AND, YOU KNOW, APPLY IT, YOU KNOW, TO A CONTRACT THAT I WOULD EITHER WRITE MYSELF OR LIKE I SAID PIGGYBACK OFF OF PUTNAM COUNTY'S. YOU KNOW, THE REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN C. C WAS NEVER PLATTED. SO THE ROADS ARE ACTUALLY OWNED BY THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION TODAY.

SO WE WOULD HAVE TO ACQUIRE, YOU KNOW, THE ROADS THROUGH THAT. BUT WHAT THE RESIDENTS HAVE DONE IS WE HAVE AN MSBU POLICY AND IT STARTS OFF YOU BRING US A PETITION WITH TEN PERCENT OF THE HOMEOWNERS NAMES ON IT AND YOU BRING US A CHECK AND WE WILL GO AHEAD AND START THE PROCESS.

WE'VE RECEIVED THE CHECK. WE'VE GOT THE 10% PETITION. SO WE'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, MOVE FORWARD WITH YOUR BLESSING TO CREATE AN MSBU FOR, YOU KNOW, SECTION C WHICH MEANS WE'LL GET INTO MORE OF THE DETAILS. BECAUSE THE SAME THING. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN C THAT FRONT ON ALREADY COUNTY MAINTAINED ROADS AND WE NEED TO SEE THERE ARE PEOPLE ADJACENT TO C WHO HAVE TO DRIVE THROUGH C TO GET TO SOME OF THOSE COUNTY ROADS. SO WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT ANALYSIS. WE'LL HAVE A TOTAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE. WE'LL HAVE A TOTAL LINEAR FOOTAGE OF ROADS TO BE MAINTAINED. AND, YOU KNOW, WE'LL LOOK AT THE DRAINAGE. WE'LL LOOK AT EVERYTHING. THEN WE'LL SET OUR FEES, YOU KNOW, WITH THAT. AND LIKE THE STORM WATER FEE, IF IT WAS $130 A YEAR WE PROBABLY ASK IT BE SET HIGHER TO COVER FOR THAT SLOW CREEP OF INFLATION SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE REDOING AN MSBU EVERY YEAR. AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH THE THREE

ROADWAY MSBUS WE'VE BEEN RUNNING SINCE THE LATE 80S. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: SO THE THING THAT STUCK WITH ME JUST THEN, DALE, IS YOU SAID THE HOA OWNS THE ROADS. IS THAT A DIFFERENT

HOA FOR THAT AREA >> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE SOME LEGAL WORK DONE ON THAT.

I'VE HEARD SEVERAL DIFFERENT STORIES. THAT THE DEVELOPER GAVE THE HOA THE ROADWAYS. AND I THINK WHAT THEY HAVE NOW IS A POA. AND, YOU KNOW, WE'D HAVE TO HAVE SOMEBODY I GUESS DO THE

TITLE WORK >> AND IN CONNECTION WITH C, UNDER WHAT THEY'VE ASKED FOR UNDER THE COUNTY'S POLICY FOR THE MSBU, WE WOULDN'T BE TAKING OWNERSHIP OF THE ROAD. THEY

WOULD JUST PROVIDE US A MAINTENANCE EASEMENT. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: HOW COULD

[03:00:09]

THEY GET THAT IF THE POA/HOA DOESN'T EXIST? >> WELL I GUESS DEPENDING ON WHICH FORM AND THAT IS ONE THING THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED THAT PRIOR TO UNDER THE POLICY, PRIOR TO SENDING OUT THE BALLOTS REQUIRED UNDER THE POLICY THAT IS WE WOULD REQUIRE THE ASSURE AFTERNOONS THAT THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS VOTED TO PROVIDE US THE MAINTENANCE EASEMENT. THE COUNTY. AND THEY HAVE COUNSEL. THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION DOES.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR AND THERE HAS NOT BEEN A SECOND. SO I AM GOING TO DECLARE THAT MOTION INVALID. AND THEN WHAT WE'LL DO IS I'D LIKE TO HEAR THE FOLKS FROM SECTION C AND THEN MAYBE REVISIT THE ITEM NUMBER 18 ON A AND B IF THAT'S OKAY WITH EVERYBODY ON THE BOARD SO WE CAN GET A FULL PICTURE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THAT AREA. IS THAT GOOD? DOES THAT WORK? ALL RIGHT. MR. AUTO, YOU DON'T LIVE THERE SO YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET A CHANCE TO DISCUSS THIS. SO, WE'VE GOT DALE'S TAKE ON C. SO, LET'S A BRING UP SOME OF THE

FOLKS FROM C. MA'AM, DID YOU WANT TO COME UP? >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: YES.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: TAKE YOUR TIME. THAT'S ALL RIGHT. AFTER HEARING THIS, I AM A LITTLE

DIZZY MYSELF. >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: MY NAME IS SHARON. I LIVE AT 5703 CARIBBEAN CIRCLE WHICH IS IN THE PINK SECTION. I ORIGINALLY PURCHASED 5679 CARIBBEAN CIRCLE IN APRIL OF 2018. SINCE THEN I'VE DEEDED IT TO OUR DAUGHTER AND HER HUSBAND. BUT WE HAVE DEVELOPED 5703. AND IN THE TIMEFRAME FROM NOVEMBER -- EXCUSE ME, APRIL OF 2018, WE DO NOT HAVE ROAD MAINTENANCE. IT HAS BEEN MAINTAINED THREE TIMES DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME. THE ROADS ARE EXTREMELY BAD. OKAY. I CAN BOTTOM MY CAR OUT DRIVING OVER THE DIRT ROADS. WE HAVE A LOT OF AREAS THAT'S DEAD SAND. I THINK YOU CALL IT SUGAR SAND DOWN SOUTH. UP NORTH IT'S DEAD SAND. BECAUSE YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU WANT, AND IT'S STILL SAND AND IT GOES AWAY. I REALLY WOULD APPRECIATE THE BOARD NOT TO TAKE THIS OUT OF CONSIDERATION. I REALLY WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION. I HAVE TALKED TO MY NEIGHBORS ON CARIBBEAN CIRCLE AND OUR BIGGEST CONCERN IS IF THE ASSOCIATION SO NOT REVITALIZE, OKAY, WE ARE ALL DEAD IN THE AREA. OUR ROADS WILL NEVER BE MAINTAINED AND THE ASSOCIATION, IF IT DOES GET DISSOLVED AND THESE ARE ALL POSSIBILITIES, MY NEIGHBORS HAVE TOLD ME THAT THEY ARE INTERESTED IN THE MSBU. BECAUSE THEN WE COULD GUARANTEE THAT OUR ROADS WILL BE MAINTAINED MONTHLY. WE'D REALLY BE HAPPY EVEN IF IT

WAS FOUR TIMES A YEAR OKAY. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: WHO MAINTAINED THE ROADS THREE TIMES

THEY DID GO? FROM THE OTHER HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION? >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: IN 2018 THEY HIRED A NEW CONTRACTOR THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE COME IN AND I DON'T KNOW HIS NAME. AND HE CAME IN WITH REAL HEAVY EQUIPMENT AND HE WOULD GRADE THEM TO THE RIGHT PITCH AND TAKE CARE OF THEM. THEN HE WAS GOING TO TAKE A ROLL ERR -- AND HE DID, HE TOOK A ROLLER AND ROLLED IT. AND IF YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, KNOW, SUGAR SAND OR DEAD SAND, YOU CAN ROLL IT UNTIL YOUR HEART'S CONTENT, IT'S STILL SAND. AND WHETHER IT RAINS IT GOES AWAY. SINCE THEN THEY HAVE LET HIM GO AND THEY HAVE BROUGHT BACK THE OLD CONTRACTOR. I THINK HIS NAME IS MR. TILLSON.

AND SINCE THEN HE'S BEEN DOWN MY ROAD. A SECTION OF MY ROAD. BECAUSE I LIVE ON THE DEAD END PART. AND WE GET NOTHING. HE DRIVES RIGHT PAST US. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S OUR BIGGEST CONCERN, IS THAT WE WILL, IF WE DON'T REVITALIZE, WE WILL NOT HAVE ANY ROADS TO BE MAINTAINED.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU, MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: HAS ANYONE FROM YOUR GROUP SPOKE TO ANYONE ABOUT AN MSBU OR DID ANY RESEARCH ON IT?

[03:05:01]

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: YES WE HAVE SPOKEN WITH DALE ABOUT AN MSBU. I HAVE SPOKEN TO MY NEIGHBORS ABOUT THE MSBU. I ALSO EXPLAINED TO THEM THE POTENTIAL COST AND MOST OF THEIR RESPONSE WAS: WELL, YOU KNOW, IF I HAVE TO PAY FOR SOMETHING, IT WOULD BE NICE IF I HAD A SERVICE. BUT RIGHT NOW WHERE WE'RE LIVING WE PAY OUR DUES BUT WE GET NO SERVICE. MY ROADS ARE ALSO ENCLOSING. YOU KNOW, THE TREES, THE VINES -- FLORIDA HAS GREAT VINES -- AND THEY'RE OVERTAKING

A LOT OF OUR SECTION OF ROADS AND NOBODY TRIMS THEM. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU,

MA'AM. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: 110% OF EVERYTHING WE COLLECT IN PROPERTY TAXES GOES JUST TO POLICE, FIRE AND AMBULANCES. THAT MEANS WE PAY MORE FOR JUST THOSE SERVICES THAN WE COLLECT FROM THE ENTIRE COUNTY. SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SAY YOU ARE NOT

GETTING ANYTHING. >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I'M NOT SAYING -- WE'RE GETTING GOOD SERVICE FROM THE COUNTY. NO I AM NOT MEANING THAT. BUT I AM SAYING FROM THE ASSOCIATION.

AND IN OUR LITTLE PLAT OF THE LITTLE PINK AREA WE HAVE OVER 400 LOTS. SOME OF THEM ARE DOUBLED BUT MOST OF THEM ARE SINGLE LOTS. SO, WE'RE LOOKING AT 400-PLUS.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU, MA'AM. APPRECIATE IT. TRAVIS? FOLLOWING TRAVIS WE'LL HEAR FROM

LATOYA. >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M TRAVIS. I STAY AT 7457 CARIBBEAN CIRCLE. OF COURSE, I HAVE SPOKE WITH ALMOST A LARGE PORTION OF THE NEIGHBORS THAT STAY IN C. AND WE WERE HERE TODAY TO PETITION FOR A MSBU TO MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY WANTED TO HAVE OUR ROADS MAINTAINED. I CAN'T TELL YOU THE SAME STORY SHE HAS BECAUSE OF COURSE THEY'VE ONLY BEEN OUT THERE THREE TIMES. WE'RE LOOKING FOR SECURITY AT THE SAME TIME. BUT ALSO WE HAD A PROBLEM WITH OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM. THEY DON'T LIKE COMING DOWN OUR ROADS. IT'S ALWAYS A COMPLAINT. NO MATTER HOW THEY GO DOWN THERE, EVEN IF YOU LOOK INTO THE RESEARCH THERE'S COMPLAINTS ABOUT OUR ROADS ARE SO BUMPY THEY'RE NOT MAINTAINED.

AT THE SAME TIME WE CAN'T DENY CLAY COUNTY IS GOING TO EXPAND. PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO MOVE OUT THERE WHEN THEY COME OUT THERE AND SEE THE ROADS. IT'S BEAUTIFUL HOMES OUT THERE IN C.

THEY COME OUT AND SEE THE ROADS AND THEY SEND SOMEWHERE ELSE. SOME HOUSES HAVE BEEN ON THE MARKETS SINCE 2018. BUT WE ASK THE NEIGHBORS, THEY'VE BEEN THERE FOR EIGHT YEARS. WE ONLY MOVED OUT THERE BECAUSE THE HOUSE WAS BEAUTIFUL. WE'RE ONLY LOOKING FOR A SOLUTION. WE DON'T MIND PAYING FOR OUR ROADS TO BE NEIGHBORED. JUST LIKE SHE SAID IT IS A SERVICE. I DON'T MIND PAYING FOR THE MSBU. A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FROM HOOSIER, CARIBBEAN CIRCLE THAT LEADS INTO ONE OF THE MAIN ROADS BUT YOU CAN'T GET THERE COMFORTABLY. I'VE BEEN HERE FOUR YEARS, GOING ON FIVE. I REPLACED THE STRUTS ON MY VEHICLE TWICE. IT'S NOT COMFORTABLE. I DON'T MIND PAYING THE COUNTY TO MAINTAIN THE ROADS. YOU'VE I'M NOT ASKING FOR NOTHING I JUST WANT THE SERVICE TO BE DONE. LIKE SHE SAID, EVEN IF IT'S FOUR TIMES A YEAR, I DO NOT MIND IT. IT'S SOMETHING WE PAY ON OUR TAXES. I LOOK MORE FORWARD TO THE COUNTY TAKING ON THE ROAD FOR ONE REASON. BECAUSE IF SOMETHING'S NOT RIGHT I CAN CALL THE COUNTY AND THEY CAN POSSIBLY SEEK A SOLUTION. BUT AT LEAST I KNOW THEY'LL BE BACK IN THREE TO FOUR WEEKS. THAT GIVES ME COMFORT. GIVES THE NEIGHBORS COMFORT. IT GIVES ME COMFORT THAT MORE PEOPLE MAY WANT TO EXPAND AND MOVE OUT THERE. LIKE SHE SAID THERE'S OVER 400 LOTS.

BUTS THERE A LOT OF HOMES OUT THERE AS WELL. THERE'S A LOT OF KIDS OUT THERE. I JUST WANT A COMORTABLE SOLUTION. I'M NOT ASKING FOR NOTHING. I'M WILLING TO PAY I'M JUST ASKING FOR A CHANCE TO MOVE FORWARD AND VOTE ON IT WHERE DALE CAN ACTUALLY GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE HIS PEOPLE OUT THERE AND ASSESS IT. THE FASTER THE BETTER. LIKE SHE SAID, NO MATTER IF WE REVITALIZE, I DON'T CARE IF WE'RE STILL PAYING. WHY? BECAUSE AT LEAST WE'RE GUARANTEED A SERVICE. WHEN WE REVITALIZED IT WAS CONTRACTING SERVICES. THEY DIDN'T APPROPRIATELY MAINTAIN THE ROAD. SOMETIMES THEY WERE FORGOTTEN ABOUT. SOMETIMES A AND B ARE MAINTAINED. SILVER SANDS, FLORIDA FRONTIERS MAINTAINED. WE'RE THE BACK END. WE'RE LIKE STEP CHILDREN. WE DON'T WANT TO FEEL FORGOTTEN. THAT'S THE ONLY REASON WE'RE HERE TODAY AND WANT

TO SPEAK UP. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU,

SIR. LATOYA? CALLING LATOYA TIAMA. >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I LIVE ON CARIBBEAN CIRCLE. ON THE FRONT PART BUT DEAD CENTER. MY CONCERN IS THE SAND DOES GET REALLY SOFT AND WE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH AMBULATORY CARE. IF YOU HAVE ANY ELDERLY FAMILY MEMBERS THAT NEEDS AMBULATORY CARE IT CAN BECOME DIFFICULT SITUATION IF YOU ARE IN A TRUE EMERGENCY.

[03:10:06]

THEY GET STUCK OUT THERE SOMETIMES. I'VE ACTUALLY HAD TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE AMBULANCE HAD TO HAVE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT COME RESCUE THEM TO GET SERVICES HANDLED. AND MOMENTS COUNT WHEN IT'S REALLY, REALLY, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING EMERGENCY. IT REALLY TAKES SECONDS OFF SOMEONE'S LIFE IF THEY'RE REALLY IN A SITUATION. BUT ITS DUE TOE ROADS. WHEN THE ROADS ARE MAINTAINED BY THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION THEY DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCE TO GUARANTEE GOOD ROAD SERVICES SO OUR ROADS ARE ALWAYS JUST REALLY NOT ANYTHING YOU CAN REALLY COMFORTABLY DRIVE ON.

MAYBE A SEVEN DAY WEEK. IT DOESN'T LAST. THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING FOR AND I DID SIGN ON THE -- I AM ONE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT DID SIGN. I HAVE A LOT OF NEIGHBORS THAT CAN'T MAKE IT BECAUSE THEY'RE ELDERLY. BUT THEY WILL SIGN THEY JUST WANT CARE FOR ROADS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GO ANYWHERE. SOME ARE CONFINED TO THE AREAS THAT ARE REALLY SANDY. THEY DON'T HAVE ANYBODY TO CALL IN CASE THEY GET STUCK. YOU CAN'T GET TOW TRUCKS OUT THERE. SO, WHERE WE STAY, ONE OF THE ROADS YOU LEAD OFF IS 352 AND ANOTHER ONE IS -- THE ONE THAT GOES TOWARDS THE SCHOOL. CHRISTIAN CAMP ROAD IS MAINTAINED BY THE COUNTY, I BELIEVE, BUT GETTING OFF THAT ONE IS HOOSIER. HOOSIER IS VERY, VERY HORRIBLE. THAT CURVE GOING INTO THERE. AND NO EMERGENCY SERVICES REALLY CAN GET THROUGH THAT PART. BUT THAT'S HOW YOU GET TO THE REST OF THE AREA BECAUS OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT IS ON THE BACK SIDE OF THAT. OKAY. I'M SORRY. I

JUST CAME FROM THE BATHROOM. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: HOW ABOUT GARBAGE TRUCKS, DO THEY

HAVE PROBLEMS? >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: THEY DO BUT THEY MANAGE IT. WHAT THEY STARTED DOING NOW IS ACTUALLY RIDING ON THE ACTUAL NEIGHBORS LAWNS. THAT'S HOW THEY DO IT SOMETIMES IF THEY HAVE TO [LAUGHTER] WE ACTUALLY HAVE A LONG WIDEN STRETCH BECAUSE EVERYBODY DOES WHATEVER THEY CAN DO GET TO WHERE THEY NEED TO GET SOMETIME SO THE ROADS VERY STRETCHED. THEY TOOK IT FIVE TO EIGHT FEET OF OUR FRONT YARD JUST TO TRY TO GET SAFE TRAVELING ROUTE YOU KNOW. BUS ROUTE ALSO HAS DIFFICULTY. ACTUALLY ONE OF OUR BUS DRIVERS JUST GOT STUCK LAST WEEK. SO IT'S JUST SOMETHING WE KIND OF DEAL WITH. WE KIND OF ALL GET TOGETHER AND SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, BREAKS DOWN OR GETS STUCK OUT THERE, EVERYBODY TRIES TO HELP OUT. BUT IT REALLY COMES BACK TO WE REALLY DON'T HAVE THE STRENGTH WHEN WE ARE PAYING OUR DUES FOR THEM TO, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY RELY ON SOME COMPANY THAT DOESN'T DO WHAT THEY SAY THEY CAN DO OR WILL DO THEN WE'RE JUST LEFT AND STUCK AND THEY'RE NOT THINKING WE HAVE KIDS THAT ARE SOMETIMES IN A SITUATION YOU KNOW. THAT'S MY THING IS THE SAFETY OF IT ALL.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU. IS IT TIANA? >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: HI. I ACTUALLY WANT TO THANK DALE FOR COMING TO ONE OF OUR LAST MEETINGS AND OFFERED THE MSBU PROGRAM AND EXPLAINED TO A LOT OF THE HOMEOWNERS WHAT IT WAS. I WAS THE INITIAL HOMEOWNER WHO TOOK THE PETITION AND WENT AROUND DOOR-TO-DOOR AND TALKED TO HOMEOWNERS THEMSELVES. IN THIS POA LIKE THEY DID STATE, THERE IS 1957 LOTS. STATISTICALLY THEY'VE ONLY HAD AROUND 30% PARTICIPATION ON VOTES. SO, THERE IS A BOARD MEMBER IN THE BACK THAT CAN VERIFY THAT. SO WE DO NOT BELIEVE THERE WILL BE A REVITALIZATION. I KNOW THE BOARD MEMBERS HERE ARE HOPING TO HAVE THE ROADS AS A CHANCE FOR REVITALIZATION. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE SPEAKING TO THE HOMEOWNERS AND ACTUALLY TALKING TO THEM ABOUT THE ROADS. AND LIKE THEY SAID, SECTION C IS A FORGOTTEN AREA. SECTION A AND B IS THE ONE WHO GETS THEIR ROADS MAINTAINED. SECTION C IS THE FORGOTTEN AREA. I'VE TALKED TO THE HOMEOWNERS AND A LOT ARE ELDERLY. ONE OF THE CONCERNS FROM THE BOARD MEMBERS NOW WHY THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DO THIS MSBU PROGRAM FOR SECTION C, AND WHY THEY CHOSE NOT TO PAY THE $500 FEE AND A HOMEOWNER, I HAD FOUR HOMEOWNERS OFFER TO PAY THIS $500 FEE FOR THE FACT BEING THEY NEED MAINTENANCE. IT IS THE FORGOTTEN AREA. THESE HOMEOWNERS BEING ELDERLY AND NOT BEING ABLE TO GET OUT, ONE OF THEIR CONCERNS IS WITH MSBU PROGRAM BEING A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THE HOA FEES, BUT THEN THEY THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND A LOT OF THEM SAYS BUT I'VE SPENT THAT IN ROAD MAINTENANCE ALONE. WHAT YOU ARE GOING BE SPENDING A LITTLE BIT MORE IN ROAD MAINTENANCE EVERY YEAR, I MEAN, FOR A NEW MSBU PROGRAM THEY'LL BE GETTING GRADINGS 12 TIMES A YEAR AND SPENDING LESS IN VEHICULAR REPAIR. SO, THERE ARE MANY HOMEOWNERS HOPING THIS DOES GO HOME AND ASKING FOR A

FAVORABLE JUDGMENT. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TODAY. THANK YOU. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU.

[03:15:05]

EUGENE? >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I LIVE ON 5620 COUNTY ROAD 352. I'M NOT PART OF SECTION C. I AM PART OF THE POA, HOWEVER. ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I WENT AROAD WITH THE PETITION ASSISTED WITH COLLECTING NAMES THIS THE PETITION IS BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO FORGET OUR NEIGHBORS. EVEN THOUGH IT IS THOUGHT THAT WE DON'T CARE BECAUSE WE LIVE ON A COUNTY ROAD SO WHY SHOULD WE PAY, WE DO CARE ABOUT OUR NEIGHBORS. AND OUR NEIGHBORS, WHAT EVERYBODY SAID TO US REPEATEDLY AS WE WENT TO THEIR HOUSES IS WE JUST WANT OUR OPTIONS. AND SO THAT'S WHY THEY WANTED TO PROCEED WITH THIS PETITION SO THEY WOULD KNOW WHAT THEIR OPTIONS ARE. THEY DON'T WANT TO WAIT UNTIL THE VERY LAST MINUTE TO FIND OUT WELL YOU COULD HAVE GONE FOR THE MSBU PROGRAM BUT NOW IT'S GOING TAKE YOU ANOTHER YEAR PHOTOGRAPH TO DO IT. -- YEAR AND A HALF TO DO IT. SO THEY DECIDED, LET'S PROCEED WITH IT NOW EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GOING TO REVITALIZE. AND IF IT IS A VIABLE OPTION MAYBE WE'LL CHOOSE THAT AND STILL KEEP THE POA GOING. MAYBE WE'LL CHOOSE THAT AND CHOOSE TO VOTE AGAINST THE POA. THEY JUST WANT TO KNOW SIMPLY WHAT THEIR OPTIONS ARE. AND I APPRECIATE IT IF YOU WOULD PASS THIS THROUGH SO THAT THEY COULD AT LEAST KNOW WHAT THEIR OPTIONS

COULD BE. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL BRING IT BACK TO THE BOARD. COURTNEY, MAYBE YOU CAN EXPLAIN WHERE THEY ARE WITH THEIR PETITION NOW

>> SO THEY HAVE IN ACCORDANCE THE COUNTY HAS A POLICY FOR GRATED UNPAVED ROADS WHERE THEY CAN SUBMIT A PETITION AND ASK FOR THE BOARD TO SET UP AN MSBU. GOING BACK TO THE PROCESS. AS YOU WILL RECALL WITH THE STORM WATER. SO, IN DECEMBER WE'LL BRING A NOTICE OF INTENT TO YOU THAT YOU WOULD THEN PASS FOR THIS MSBU. AND THEN THE PROCESS MOVES ALONG UNTIL IT COMES BACK TO YOU IN -- LAST YEAR I THINK WE DID IT IN JUNE OR JULY WE BROUGHT IT BACK TO YOU FOR AN INITIAL THEN A FINAL RESOLUTION. ACCORDING TO THE POLICY, DURING THAT TIMEFRAME WHAT YOU DO IS PART OF THE $500 THEY'RE SUBMITTED WILL PROVIDE FUNDS TO -- THE COUNTY SENDS OUT BALLOTS TO ALL OF THE HOMEOWNERS OR PROPERTY OWNERS THAT WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THAT SECTION C MSBU AND IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD, 51% HAVE TO RESPOND THAT THEY WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE MSBU. SO, OUR THOUGHT PROCESS IN TALKING WITH FRAN, DALE AND I WAS IF THE BOARD IS INCLINED TO ACCEPT THEIR PETITION AND MOVE FORWARD, TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE NOTICE OF INTENT IN DECEMBER, THEN PUT THE BALL IN THEIR COURT TO BE ABLE TO GET ASSURANCE FROM THE HOMEOWNER'S BOARD THEY'LL BE ABLE TO GET THE MAINTENANCE EASEMENT. THEN AFTER THAT SEND OUT THE BALLOTS.

AND ASSUMING THEY COME BACK WITH THE 51%, THEN IT WOULD BE IN LINE TO BRING TO YOU BACK IN THE SUMMER WHEN YOU ACTUALLY HAVE THE RESOLUTIONS TO FINALIZE IT TO PUT ON THE TAX BILL.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: SO WE HAVE TO GET THIS DONE AND OUT TO THEM BY THE END OF THE YEAR? OR WE JUST

HAVE TO APPROVE IT THEN WORK THROUGH THE MAILINGS? >> RIGHT. JUST APPROVE THE CONCEPT MOVING FORWARD. AND THEN AT THE DECEMBER MEETING WHEN WE'RE BRINGING YOU THE RESOLUTION OF INTENT FOR THE SUBDIVISION MSBU, WE WOULD ALSO BRING RESOLUTION OF INTENT FOR THEM. AND THAT'S JUST APPROVING THE INITIAL STEP TO MOVE IT FORWARD. IF YOU DON'T DO THAT

IN DECEMBER, THEN YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT DECEMBER. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THAT'S WHAT I

WAS GETTING AT. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: THAT 51 PERCENT IS THAT RESIDENTS OR

LANDOWNERS? >> PROPERTY OWNERS. SO WHAT WE WOULD DO IS FRAN, DALE AND I WOULD ACTUALLY TAKE THE SECTION C AND DETERMINE WHO ALL USE THOSE ROADS WITHIN THAT SECTION C AND IT WOULD BE THOSE PEOPLE THAT USE THOSE ROADS THAT NEED THE MAINTENANCE WHO WOULD RECEIVE THE BALLOTS. FOR INSTANCE, THERE ARE SOME PROPERTY OWNERS IN SECTION C WHO MIGHT NOT BE INCLUDED IN THE MSBU. BECAUSE THEY DON'T USE THE ROADS WITHIN SECTION C.

THEY MAY USE THE PAVED ROAD THAT WE ALREADY MAINTAIN. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: THAT ABSENTEE LANDOWNER LIVING IN DUVAL COUNTY WILL NOT BE VOTING ON THIS

>> OH YES THEY'LL RECEIVE THE PELTED BALLOT. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: SOMEBODY OWNS

TWO LOTS DO THEY GET TWO VOTES? >> YES. FOR INSTANCE ON THE PETITION THERE'S A GENTLEMAN I THINK HE LIVES IN CANADA WHO OWNS 19 LOTS. HE WOULD GET 19 VOTES.

>> HE ALSO GETS TO PAY 19 TIMES. >> RIGHT. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IF HE

[03:20:11]

WANTS TO DEVELOP HIS PROPERTY AND GET IN AND OUT OF IT HE'LL VOTE YES.

>> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: SO THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT ISSUES GOING ON HERE AND CHALLENGES, BUT I THINK WE HAVE THE MSBU PROCESS. THEY'VE COMPLIED WITH THE PROCESS. AND I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO MOVE FORWARD AND LET THE RESIDENTS OF THAT SECTION DECIDE. SO, I WOULD SEE NO REASON FOR US TO HOLD IT UP JUST BECAUSE -- I MEAN, THERE ARE LOT OF OTHER THINGS AT PLAY, BUT WE HAVE TO KIND OF TAKE THEM ONE ISSUE AT A TIME.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WHEN ANY OF THE OTHER, A, B, OR C WANT TO GET INVOLVED WITH THIS AS WELL?

OR IS IT JUST C IN PLAY HERE? >> WELL THEY'RE NOT ASKING US. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: C IS THE ONE THAT HAS COME FORWARD. OBVIOUSLY, A AND B THE MOTION WAS TO TAKE ON MAINTENANCE.

>> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: I WAS GOING TO ASK MR. COLEMAN THAT QUESTION. WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS

ON A AND B >> I'M SORRY? >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS ON YOUR SECTION GOING WITH MSBU. DO YOU HAVE ANY FEEDBACK

>> THAT WOULD NOT BE OUR FIRST CHOICE. OUR POSITION THAT IS THE BOARD OBVIOUSLY, WE FEEL

THAT YOU OWE IT TO US. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: BUT THAT WOULD BE YOUR SECOND CHOICE

>> IT'S POSSIBLE. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IF WE DON'T DO IT BY DECEMBER YOU ARE

GOING TO WAIT ANOTHER YEAR >> WE'RE NOT PREPARED TO GET THAT MANY VOTES ON A PETITION.

WE'VE GOT QUITE A BIT MORE PEOPLE TO CANVAS. IT'S ON THE TABLE BUT IT'S NOT AN IDEAL THING. THE REASON BEING FOR THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WE'VE BEEN PAYING IN YEARLY FEES, WE HAS BEEN ABLE TO KEEP THE ROADS UP. THEY HAVE VALID POINTS ABOUT C. C UNFORTUNATELY IS KIND OF DOWNHILL FROM MOST OF THEM SO THEY GET A LOT OF -- THOSE ROADS TEND TO GET BEAT UP WORSE THAN THE OTHERS. SO THEY DO TEND TO BE WORSE. WHEN THEY DO GET CLEANED UP THEY GET TORE UP QUICKER. SO THEY DO TAKE THE BRUNT OF IT UNFORTUNATELY. OBVIOUSLY, OUR YEARLY IS LESS

THAN THE MSBU. SO WE WOULD RATHER BE FRUGAL AND GO LESS. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: TAKE THAT

AS A NO. >> CAN I ADD SOMETHING TO THAT? MAY I?

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: YES, MA'AM. QUICKLY. >> REVITALIZATION WOULD BE OUR SECOND IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION. I MEAN, REVITALIZATION WOULD BENEFIT US.

IF WE CANNOT -- IF WE'RE NOT SUCCESSFUL HERE, 7835 WOULD BE CHEAPER THAN AN MSBU FOR ALL OF US FOR A-B. IT WOULDN'T BE IDEAL BECAUSE IT'S STILL TIGHT. THE MONEY WE BRING IN DOESN'T COVER EVERYTHING. IT'S BEEN A BURDEN OVERALL TO COVER THE PARKS AND THE ROADS AND EVERYTHING OVERALL. THERE'S NOT -- YOU JUST GET BY. EVERYBODY'S JUST GETTING BY IN OUR COMMUNITY. SO, MSBU WOULD BE IF REVITALIZATION FAILS WE'D LOOK TO THAT. BECAUSE THEN IT

WOULD BE OUR FINAL [INAUDIBLE]. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. SO, SOMEBODY WANT TO

MAKE A MOTION ON C IF THAT'S WHERE YOU WANT TO GO? >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: MR. CHAIR, WE HAVE SOMEONE WANTS TO COMMENT ON -- WE'RE TALKING TWO DIFFERENT SECTIONS. A AND

B-- >>

UP, MA'AM. >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: OKAY. AS YOU CAN TELL I DID NOT DRESS TO

SPEAK TO YOU ALL. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: NEITHER DID COMMISSIONER HENDRY BUT WE LET

HIM. >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: WE'LL GO OUT TO DINNER TONIGHT. VANESSA FAYO. I'VE LIVED IN BIG TREE SINCE 1990. I'VE LIVED NEXT DOOR TO BIG TREE SINCE 1974. SO I SAW IT DEVELOP. I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD 10 TO 12 DIFFERENT TIMES OVER THESE LAST 29 YEARS.

YOU WILL NEVER GET THE 30% THAT TY REFERRED TO TO GET A REVITALIZATION. WE'VE NEVER EVEN GOTTEN THAT PLUCK IN VOTES. I DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING. IF YOU ASK PAST BOARD MEMBERS THEY'LL TELL YOU THE SAME THING. I SEE NO REASON WHY ANYBODY IF A AND B WOULD NOT GO WITH THE MSBU PROGRAM. I'LL GO DOOR-TO-DOOR: WE HAVE NUMEROUS ROADS THAT NEED TO BE MAINTAINED. THE $78 A

YEAR, DOESN'T CUT IT. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: BUT ULTIMATELY THAT'S NOT OUR

DECISION TONIGHT >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: BUT THEY ASKED.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I DON'T WANT TO TURN MY BACK ON EVERYBODY DOWN THERE.

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: AND I APPRECIATE THAT. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IF YOU

[03:25:03]

WANT A HELPING HAND HERE IT IS. BUT YOU GOT TO GET IN BEFORE DECEMBER. IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR US TO DO IT IN ONE PILE AS ESSENTIALLY DO IT THIS YEAR THEN DO IT NEXT YEAR AND, YOU KNOW, I'VE HAD SOME EXPERIENCE WITH THE HOA THING TOO. AND IT'S DIFFICULT JUST TO GET RE-ELECTED MUCH LESS GET RECONSTITUTED. PLUCK AND IT'S HARD TO GET EVERYBODY TO DO IT.

>> COMMISSIONER: BOLLA: IF YOU REALLY WANT TO FIX THE PROBLEM START THE PROCESS. HE'S GOING TO

FIND THE BEST RATE TO GRADE YOUR ROADS. HE AS PRO AT THIS. >> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I THINK OUR INITIAL PLAN WAS TO TRY THE REVITALIZATION WHICH WE'RE RIGHT ON THE CRUX OF THAT WE FEEL IS OUR FIE JUNIORRY RESPONSIBILITY THE OPPORTUNITY TO OUR PROPERTY OWNERS. IF IT FAILS, THEN THAT IS WHAT WE WILL DO. WE WILL -- THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT STEP. TO GO TO THE COUNTY FOR MSBU. IF WE HAVE NO ROAD MAINTENANCE THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT STEP AND YOU COULD LOOK AT IT AS A COMPLETE PACKAGE THEN. BUT THEY WANTED TO GO FORWARD WITHOUT US ON SECTION C IS WHAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING. SO WE DID NOT -- THAT WAS NOT OUR IDEA. SO THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW. THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE EXPERIENCING. WE ARE THE PROCESS OF REVITALIZING.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IT IS WILL BE A YEAR LATER FROM NOW. PLUCK

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: AND I KNOW SECTION C'S MAIN REASON FOR COMING FORWARD ARE DUES ARE

VOLUNTARILY. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET PAID. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I OWN A LOT AND I UNDERSTAND. ONE OF MY MORE ASTUTE REAL ESTATE DEALS. YOU CAN'T GET IN THERE WITH A TANK

>> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: WHERE YOU OWN I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THERE'S PEOPLE WITHOUT

RUNNING WATER. SO, THERE'S CHALLENGES. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: $3,000 TO

DRILL A WELL OUT THERE. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: OKAY. SO WE DO HAVE THE SECTION C THAT I FRONT OF US AS AN MSBU. THEY'D LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD. DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO HELP THEM MOVE

FORWARD? >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I'LL MOVE.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'LL SECOND. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. MOTION CARRIES 5-0. SO WE WILL MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT. COURTNEY AND DALE YOU WILL BE IN TOUCH WITH THOSE FOLKS AND MAKE SURE THEY KNOW WHAT WE NEED TO DO NEXT FOR THEM

AT LEAST WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO HELP US MOVE FORWARD. >> RIGHT. THEN IT WILL COME BACK IN FRONT OF YOU ON DECEMBER 10TH FOR THE INITIAL RESOLUTION.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: HOW ARE WE GOING TO HANDLE THE ISSUE OF THE PAVED ROADS WE ARE

MAINTAINING. IS THAT IN PLAY IN C? >> NO.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: ALL RIGHT. THEN MUTE POINT. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: OKAY. SO MY THEM TO MAKE A DETERMINATION WE NEED TO GIVE THEM AN ANSWER AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY'D LIKE TO DO THE MSBU OR MAKE THEIR PLANS TO DO WHATEVER. SO, CAN I TAKE IT THAT THE FACT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE A SECOND FOR THE MOTION THAT THE BOARD HAS NO INTEREST IN MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION AND, THEREFORE, THAT'S AN ANSWER EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T VOTE ON IT. THEN YOU CAN MAKE A

DETERMINATION WHAT THE NEXT STEP IS. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I WOULD

LIKE FOR US TO ACCEPT MAINTENANCE. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: SO NOTED.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: SHOW ME THE MONEY. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ALL RIGHT.

EVERYBODY GOOD WITH WHERE WE ARE? >> COMMISSIONER HUTCHING:

[20. Approval of Assignment of Road Impact Fee Credit Agreement by the Armstrong Community Development District to the WB Investment Company]

UH-HUH. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: NUMBER 20. THIS IS APPROVAL OF THE ASSIGNMENT OF THE ROAD IMPACT FEE CREDIT FOR THE ARMSTRONG COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT.

GOING TO THE WB INVESTMENT COMPANY >> FRAN OUT OF THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. THE FIRST ITEM IS SORT OF A SECTION TWO OF AN AGREEMENT YOU APPROVED A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WHICH WAS A CREDIT AGREEMENT FOR THE RIGHT-OF-WAY DONATION FOR THE TOP PART OF TYNES BOULEVARD THAT'S BEING CONNECTED IN FAVOR OF THE ARMSTRONG CDD. THE ARMSTRONG CDD INTENDS TO TRANSFER THAT CREDIT TO WHAT I CALL THE REAL PARTY AND INTEREST THAT ORIGINALLY OWNED THE LAND THAT THEY TRANSFERRED TO THE CDD WHO TRANSFERRED IT TO US. SO THE CDD WANTS TO TRANSFER THE CREDIT AGREEMENT TO WB INVESTMENT COMPANY. THEY NEED

THE COUNTY'S APPROVAL OF THAT ASSIGNMENT. AND SO THAT IS -- >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: THIS IS IN

EXCHANGE FOR THE $7 MILLION THEY SPENT ON THE ROAD? >> SPEAKER: HALF OF IT, YEAH.

[03:30:03]

THIS IS FOR THE TOP PART THAT IS RIGHT AT THE DRI BOUNDARY SOUTH TO THE EXISTING TYNES CONNECTION. I THINK THAT THE TWO PLATS BEING BUILT NOW ARE OAKLAND HILLS ON EITHER SIDE OF THAT PORTION OF TYNES BOULEVARD OUTSIDE OF THE DRI. THE CDD FOR THE MOST PART WAS JUST A STRAW MAN. AND SO THEY'RE GOING TO TRANSFER THE CREDIT BACK TO WHERE IT REALLY SHOULD BE WHICH WERE THE PEOPLE WHO LAID OUT THE MONEY TO BUY THE RIGHT-OF-WAY IN THE FIRST PLACE THAT THEY TURNED AROUND AND DONATED AS PART OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF TYNES. SO, JUST NEEDED AN OFFICIAL APPROVAL OF THE COUNTY IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN FOR THE CDD AND I'LL CALL IT THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPER,

WB INVESTMENT. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR. SO THEY PAID THE $7 MILLION FOR THE ROAD AND THEY'RE GETTING ONLY CREDIT FOR 50 PERCENT OF THAT?

>> SPEAKER: THEY PAID -- THEY DONATED THE VALUE OF THE RIGHT-OF-WAY. WHICH AFTER DEDUCTIONS OF CREDITS IS $103,000. THE COUNTY ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE ROAD. IT WAS THE $15 MILLION NOT TO EXCEED. IT WAS ENTERED INTO IN 2016 WHERE THEY DONATED THE RIGHT-OF-WAY AND THEY COMMITTED TO BRING THAT ROAD IN FOR AN AMOUNT UNDER $15 MILLION BUT THE COUNTY PAID THE $15 MILLION TO CONSTRUCT THE ROAD.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I THOUGHT IT WAS 7,000 >> IT WAS 7 MILLION.

>> SPEAKER: APOLOGIZE. I SO APOLOGIZE. I KNOW YOU ALL ARE LOOKING AT ME AND I THOUGHT MAN

I HAVE SAID SOMETHING WRONG. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IT'S BECOMING LESS AND LESS OF A GOOD

DEAL. >> SPEAKER: LET MY PUT MY GLASSES ON. I APOLOGIZE.

>> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I WAS LIKE I WISH WE COULD HAVE HAD THAT ONE BACK.

>> SPEAKER: YOU KNOW WHAT IT WAS? THIS IS STRANGE, BUT I THINK THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY

SAID, WE CAN DO IT FOR SEVEN AND IT WILL COST YOU 15. >> RIGHT.

>> SPEAKER: THAT'S WHAT IT WAS. SO THE COUNTY PAID FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE ROAD. SO THE IMPACT FEE CREDIT AGREEMENT FROM THREE WEEKS AGO WAS SIMPLY FOR THE VALUE OF THE

THE CONSTRUCTION. FOR ANY OF - >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: SO THE IMPACT FEE TOTAL IS $115,000?

ROUGHLY. >> SPEAKER: THE CREDIT FOR THE PORTION UNDER THIS AGREEMENT IS ABOUT $103,000. IT STARTED OUT AS 140 BUT WE DEDUCTED THEIR APF, THEIR ADEQUATE PUBLIC

FACILITY OBLIGATION, FROM THAT AMOUNT >> BUT THE NEXT AGREEMENT THAT IS ON YOUR AGENDA IS FOR THE OTHER PART OF THE ROAD AND THAT'S A LITTLE OVER A MILLION.

>> SPEAKER: IT'S NORTH. IT'S THE NORTH PART THAT'S ROYAL PALMS BOULEVARD NOW.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'M TRYING TO DO ROUGH ACCOUNTING. WE HAD ROUGHLY $100,000 IN IMPACT FEES USED UP IN THIS TRANSACTION ON 20. DIVIDE THAT BY 6,000 OR WHATEVER THE IMPACT FEE IS NOW AND THAT'S THE NUMBER OF UNITS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. IS THAT ABOUT RIGHT?

>> FOR THE NUMBER 20 THAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT, FOR THAT ONE THEY ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE THAT BIG OF A BENEFIT. BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LOT MORE -- THEY NEED MORE CREDIT THAN THEY'RE

GETTING. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT

GIVING AWAY MORE THAN WE'RE GETTING. >> SPEAKER: WE'RE GIVING AWAY

EXACTLY WHAT WE GOT I THINK. IN TERMS OF THE VALUE. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: THIS IS A GOOD DEAL FOR US WHAT IS YOU ARE SAYING? A GOOD DEAL FOR THE CONTY?

>> SPEAKER: YES. IT'S ALSO A DEAL EMBEDDED IN OUR IMPACT FEE ORDINANCE. WHETHER A DEVELOPER IS INVOLVED WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF A ROAD THE COUNTY WANTS AND THE COUNTY HAS LOCATED, THAT'S SORT OF THE TRADEOFF. AND THEY DONATED THE RIGHT-OF-WAY SO THEY GET THE

CREDIT BACK FOR THAT. >> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: THAT'S THE WAY THIS OUGHT TO WORK.

>> SPEAKER: AND TYNES IS A BIG THOROUGHFARE AND IT'S GOING REALLY HELP NORTH AND SOUTH THERE. SO THE AGREEMENT FOR THE CREDIT HAS BEEN APPROVED. THIS IS JUST SIMPLY TO ALLOW THE CDD TO TRANSFER TO WB INVESTMENT. THEY WILL ULTIMATELY USE IT FOR THE OAKLAND HILL SUBDIVISIONS.

I THINK THERE ARE ABOUT 240 LOTS. $100,000 WON'T GO VERY FAR THERE.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'LL MOVE APPROVAL. >> COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: SECOND.

IT'S YOUR DISTRICT. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE

SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED SAY NO. AYES HAVE IT 5-0. WE GO TO 21. >> SPEAKER: 21 IS THE COMPANION

[21. Approval of Impact Fee Credit Agreement for Road Impact Fees for Armstrong Community Development District for use within the Villages of Argyle-Argyle Forest Development of Regional Impact]

CREDIT AGREEMENT. FOR THE NORTHERN PART OF TYNES BOULEVARD NOW KNOWN AS ROYAL PALMS BOULEVARD THAT RUNS THROUGH THE DRI. AND IT IS A SEPARATE AGREEMENT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T

[03:35:03]

HAVE THE APF OBLIGATION. ALSO DRIS FOR MANY, MANY YEARS HAVE ALWAYS ENJOYED THE OPPORTUNITY UNDER STATE LAW TO HAVE CREDIT FOR ANY IMPACT FEES AS A RESULT OF THE TRANSPORTATION MITIGATION, DONATIONS AND CONSTRUCTIONS THEY PERFORM. SO, WITHIN THE DRI THE DONATION OF THIS RIGHT-OF-WAY IS INTENDED FOR TRANSPORTATION, LITIGATION. SO, THEY'RE ENTITLED TO IMPACT FEE CREDIT AS A RESULT OF THAT. THE APPRAISAL CAME IN AT $1,150,000.

>> ONE MILLION. >> SPEAKER: $1,150,000. THERE'S NO DEDUCTION FOR APF OBLIGATIONS WITHIN A DRI SO THE CDD ONCE AGAIN WILL GET CREDIT FOR THE VALUE OF THE RIGHT-OF-WAY. THE COUNTY OF COURSE PAID FOR THE CONSTRUCTION ON TOP OF THE RIGHT-OF-WAY.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: SO THE RIGHT-OF-WAY IS A MILLION ONE AND WE'RE PAYING THEM OFF WITH

THE CREDITS. >> SPEAKER: CREDITS. AND IN THE DRI CONTEXT IT IS A MATTER OF STATE LAW THEY GET IMPACT FEE CREDIT FOR THIS TYPE OF DONATION.

>> COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'LL MOVE FOR APPROVAL. >> COMMISSIONER HENDRY: SECOND.

>> CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED PLEASE SAY NO. THE MOTION CARRIES 5-0. THANK YOU, FRAN.

>> SPEAKER: THANK YOU. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: NUMBER 22. COURTNEY, ARE YOU HANDLING THE

[22. Financial Advisory Services Agreement - PFM Financial Advisors]

FINANCIAL ADVISORY SERVICES AGREEMENT >> YES. THIS IS THE AGREEMENT WITH PFM. THE BOARD AGREED OR CHOSE THEM LAST BOARD MEETING THROUGH THE RFQ PROCESS TO PROVIDE THE FINANCIAL ADVISORY SERVICES. ATTACHED TO YOUR AGENDA WAS THE PROPOSED AGREEMENT. AS YOU WILL SEE IN THE AGREEMENT THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT FEE STRUCTURES. THE FIRST STRUCTURE IS IN CONNECTION WITH WHAT THEY PROVIDE FOR YOUR ACTUAL BONDING. AND THAT IS A FEE THAT'S DONE PER 1,000 AND HAS A DIFFERENT STRUCTURE DEPENDING ON, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S 20 MILLION, 50 MILLION, ET CETERA. AND IT DOES PROVIDE FOR A CAP FOR THEIR FEE AT 60,000. THE OTHER PART OF THEIR SERVICES IS THAT THEY WILL PROVIDE GENERAL ADVICE ON OTHER MATTERS THAT YOU MAY HAVE AT AN HOURLY RATE AS SET FORTH IN THE AGREEMENT THAT IS CAPPED AT $16,000 A YEAR. AND THEY ARE ANXIOUS TO GET TO WORK ON YOUR PROJECT ONCE YOUR AGREEMENT IS

APPROVED. >> CHAIRMAN CELLA: OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS?