[Call to Order]
[00:00:08]
>>> ALL RIGHT. THIS SESSION OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD NOW CALLED TO ORDER. WE DO HAVE A QUORUM. AND WE WILL BEGIN WITH
[Approval of Minutes]
APPROVAL OF MINUTES. SINCE WE HAD NO QUORUM AT OUR LAST MEETING, WE GOT TWO SETS TO APPROVE. WE HAVE MAY 1ST AND JUNE 5TH. AND I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR APPROVAL ON THOSE.>> SECOND. >> I NEED SOMEBODY TO MAKE THE
MOTION AND THEN SECOND IT. >> OKAY.
>> OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE?
AYE. AIL OPPOSED? SO CARRIED. >>> OKAY. NOW WE COME TO --
>> PROVIDE FOR THAT OPTION. >> YEAH. BECAUSE I HAVE NOT HAD TIME TO LOOK OVER THOSE THINGS. SO. --
>> WE WON'T HAVE A QUORUM WITHOUT YOU. IN ORDER TO VOTE,
YOU ARE THE QUORUM. >> WELL, YES, I'M HERE, BUT -- WHATEVER, ALL RIGHT. SO I'LL AGREE. WITH THE WARNING THAT I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT'S IN SOME OF THOSE MINUTES.
>> THEY LOOK FINE, JERRY. >> OKAY.
>> OKAY. WE WILL NOW OPEN THE FLOOR TO PUBLIC COMMENT. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK AT THIS TIME MAY SPEAK. IF NOT, I'LL CLOSE
[Old Business]
>> OKAY. SO I'LL CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT. AND BRING IT BACK TO THE -- BRING IT TO OLD BUSINESS. SELECTION OF OFFICERS FOR THE HISTORICAL BOARD FOR THE YEAR '25/'26.
>> MR. CHAIR, WE STARTED THIS PROCESS BACK IN APRIL. YOU KNOW -- WE'VE ALL GONE A NOMINATING COMMITTEE AND ALL THAT, THE STEPS THAT OUR CODE REQUIRES US. WHEN WE LAST LEFT OFF, WE HAD NOMINATIONS OF BILLY GOULD FOR CHAIR AND SEAN ATWELL FOR VICE CHAIR. I THINK -- I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE ANY OTHERS THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE PUT IN THE RUNNING AND OTHERWISE WE'RE AT THE POINT OF NEEDING TO TAKE A VOTE AND WE HAVEN'T HAD A QUORUM. SO WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO VOTE. SO.
>> ANY DISCUSSION? OKAY. IF NOT, THEN I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR THE OFFICERS TO BE VOTED IN AS PRESENTED BY BETH.
>> I MAKE A MOTION. >> SO MOVED. ALL RIGHT.
>> OKAY, WE HAVE A -- MOTION AND A SECOND.
>> DISCUSSION? >> ANY DISCUSSION? ANY --
EVERYBODY VOTE FOR APPROVAL? >> AYE.
>>> OKAY. NOW WE ARE TO THE SUNSHINE LAW DISCUSSION. AND
I'LL TURN THAT OVER TO BETH. >> SO I APOLOGIZE TO THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE. FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE NEW, WE ALWAYS HAVE TO ALONG WITH ESTABLISHING OUR OFFICERS, WE ANNUALLY HAVE TO REVIEW THE SUNSHINE LAW. THE SUNSHINE LAW COMES UNDER FLORIDA STATUTE 286.011. AND THE QUESTION, WHO IS SUBJECT TO THE SUNSHINE LAW? YOU ALL SEE THIS? OKAY.
>> YES. >> THE SUNSHINE LAW APPLIES TO ANY BOARD OR COMMISSION OF ANY STATE AGENCY OR ANY LOCAL GOVERNMENT WITHIN THE STATE. ALSO APPLIES TO ADVISORY BOARDS LIKE YOURSELVES WHOSE POWERS ARE ONLY LIMITED TO MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS. AND THERE'S THREE BASIC REQUIREMENTS OF THE SUNSHINE LAW. ALL MEETINGS OF PUBLIC BOARDS OR COMMITTEES MUST BE MADE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AS OUR MEETING IS. MUST PROVIDE REASONABLE NOTICE OF ALL MEETINGS ON THE WEBSITE. MINUTES OF THE MEETINGS MUST BE TAKEN AND MADE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC. AND MISS BLANCHE, ETT DOES GREAT JOB. IN THE PAST,
[00:05:15]
WE'VE HAD SOME SUBCOMMITTEE MEETINGS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE NOTICE FOR THOSE AS WELL AS WE ASK THAT YOU PROVIDE US MINUTES.AND YOU HAVE DONE THAT. INFORMAL GATHERING WHERE TWO OR MORE MEMBERS OF THE SAME COMMITTEE ARE TOGETHER TO DISCUSS SOME MATTER ON WHICH ACTION WILL BE TAKEN BY COMMITTEE ARE SUBJECT TO THE SUNSHINE LAW AND SOCIAL GATHERINGS IF MATTERS THAT COME BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ARE DISCUSSED BY COMMITTEE MEMBERS CAN BE A VOYAGE OF SUNSHINE LAW. YOU DON'T WANT TO BE DISCUSSING ANY ITEMS THAT WOULD COME BEFORE OUR COMMITTEE. WHEN IS IT APPLICABLE? ALL COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN MEMBERS ARE CONSIDERED MEETINGS. IF THE COMMUNICATIONS INVOLVE MATTERS WHICH COME BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE. THAT INCLUDES WRITING IF YOU ARE WRITING NOTES, MEMOS, PHONE CONVERSATIONS, ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS, INCLUDING CHAT ROOM, SOCIAL NETWORKING EMAILS, WEBSITE COMMENTS. VERBAL MESSAGES, BY LIAISON, YOU REALLY CAN'T USE ME TO COMMUNICATE BACK AND FORTH. IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT ON THE AGENDA, I CAN CERTAINLY PUT SOMETHING ON THE AGENDA FOR EVERYONE TO DISCUSS. BUT I CAN'T RELAY BETWEEN MEMBERS. AND ANY OTHER TYPE OF COMMUNICATION WOULD BE APPLICABLE TO THE SUNSHINE LAW.
AND WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES FOR VIOLATING THE SUNSHINE LAW? ANY MEMBER OF A BOARD OR COMMITTEE WHO KNOWINGLY VIOLATES THE SUNSHINE LAW IS GUILTY OF MISDEMEANOR OF THE SECOND DEGREE AND COULD BE SUBJECT TO BOTH CRIMINAL AND CIVIL PENALTIES. SO WHEN IN DOUBT, I WOULDN'T TALK AND, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ALWAYS BRING IT UP AT A MEETING IF THERE'S A DISCUSSION YOU WANT TO HAVE. YOU KNOW, WE CAN BRING IT UP AT THIS MEETING.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION. >> CERTAINLY.
>> SO MY FOCUS OBVIOUSLY IS HISTORIC CEMETERIES. STEVE AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER BECAUSE WE BOTH ARE WORKING ON CEMETERIES. SO DOES THAT MEAN THAT I CAN'T TALK TO HIM ABOUT
CEMETERY WORK? >> SO WHAT WE WILL NEED TO DO IS TRY AND FIGURE OUT HOW YOU CAN BE A SUBCOMMITTEE BECAUSE YOU ARE DOING THIS WORK. OUTSIDE OF HERE TOGETHER. AND I WILL TALK WITH OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY AND SEE WHAT WE NEED TO DO. DO YOU HAVE LIKE A REGULAR WORKDAY THAT YOU GET TOGETHER TO WORK?
>> I'VE -- I ATTENDED OUTSIDE MEETINGS WITH HIM WHERE HE'S TALKING TO FOLKS ABOUT THE FOLK THEY'RE DOING AT PLEASANT POINT. WE'VE GONE TO THE HISTORIC ROUND TABLE WHERE ALL THE FOLKS FROM THE DIFFERENT HISTORICAL SOCIETIES COME TOGETHER. AND SO IT'S REALLY DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN COMMITTEE MEMBERS, NOT US WITH THE PUBLIC. IS THAT CORRECT?
>> CORRECT. WITH THE PUBLIC YOU ARE FINE. I WOULD SAY THAT YOU TWO IF WE WERE TO DO A MARKER FOR SAY THE CEMETERY, MAYBE YOU TWO SHOULD NO BE DISCUSSING THE ACTUAL CEMETERY MARKER LANGUAGE.
IF IT'S AN ITEM THAT'S COMING BEFORE THIS BOARD. UNLESS WE HAD A SUBCOMMITTEE WHERE THE TWO OF YOU WERE WORKING TOGETHER TO RESEARCH AND COME UP WITH THAT LANGUAGE. IN WHICH CASE WE WOULD HAVE TO BE -- HAVING THAT HELD AT A SPECIAL LOCATION AND THAT'S OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. WE WOULD HAVE TO NOTIFY IF THAT
WOULD BE A SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING. >> BUT THAT WOULD BE LIKE THE
CEMETERY MARKER. >> YES. YES. SIGN OR A MARKER.
>> A SIGN THAT HE'S WORKING ON. >> ANYTHING THIS BOARD WOULD BE OFFICIALLY VOTING ON AND SPENDING MONEY ON AND THAT KIND OF THING, THAT'S OFFICIAL MATTERS OF THIS BOARD.
>> BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT HEY, I'M DOING RESEARCH AND I FOUND MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE BURIED AT THAT CEMETERY AND I HAVE ADDED THEM AND I CAN HAVE THAT SIDE CONVERSATION WITH HIM?
>> I BELIEVE SO. I WILL DOUBLE CHECK TO MAKE SURE AND I WILL CHECK TOMORROW. YOU HAVE AN ANSWER QUICKLY.
>> ALL RIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. >> I ALSO BELIEVE THAT IT HAS TO DO WITH MATTERS THAT WILL COME BEFORE THE BOARD. I MEAN, AS FAR AS -- I MEAN, OTHER THAN US DOING A MARKER AT THE CEMETERIES, AND GETTING THEM ON TO THE MASTER SITE, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OVERSIGHT WE HAVE OVER CEMETERIES. AT THIS POINT. SO.
>> OKAY. >> THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHTS ON
IT. >> AND IS THAT A MATTER OF POTENTIALLY WHAT'S GOING TO BE COMING BEFORE US? OR ACTUALLY
WHAT'S ON THE AGENDA? >> IF -- IF YOU THINK IT'S AN ITEM THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO BRING UP FOR THIS BOARD, I WOULD ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION AND NOT DISCUSS IT OUTSIDE OF THIS
[00:10:07]
MEETING. >> OKAY. ANY MORE QUESTIONS
ABOUT THE SUNSHINE LAW? >> OH. ONE MORE QUESTION. SO WHEN YOU SAID THAT LIKE I WENT TO THE HISTORIC ROUND TABLE, WHEN I READ THE SUNSHINE LAW. IT SAID THAT FOLKS FROM THE BOARD CAN -- MORE THAN ONE PERSON CAN ATTEND AS LONG AS THE TWO BOARD MEMBERS DON'T DISCUSS ITEMS THAT ARE ON OUR AGENDAS. IS THAT
CORRECT? >> YES. THAT WOULD BE CORRECT.
>> WE CAN TALK TO THE PUBLIC ABOUT IT.
>> OKAY. THAT TAKES CARE OF ITEM TWO. NOW WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE HISTORICAL MARKER PROGRESS REPORTS. AND I'M GOING TO GO A LITTLE BIT OUT OF ORDER HERE AND I'M GOING TO LET BETH TALK
ABOUT BRANDON FIELD'S FIRST. >> SO THE BRANDON FIELD, THE COMMITTEE IS BACK, THE COUNCIL IS BACK REVIEWING MARKERS AND WE WERE SCHEDULED FOR YESTERDAY'S DISCUSSION FOR THE BRANDON FIELD OUTLYING FIELD MARKER. AND THEY HAVE RESCHEDULED IT. I GUESS THE ENTIRE MEETING. AND I WAS GOING TO DOUBLE CHECK AND I BELIEVE IT'S RESCHEDULED TO NEXT MONDAY. SO -- THERE WAS NO REASON GIVEN.
MAYBE THEY HAD A MEMBER THAT COULDN'T ATTEND. SO IT COULDN'T HAVE HAD A QUORUM OR SOMETHING. SO IT'S BEEN RESCHEDULED AND WE ARE ON THE AGENDA. MOVING FORWARD WITH THAT
>> SO THE BRANDON FIELD OUTLYING FIELD IS AN AREA IN THE OAK LEAF AREA WHERE THERE WAS AN AIRFIELD THAT WAS USED FOR PRACTICE BY THE BLUE ANGELS AND SO THAT'S -- BEING COMMEMORATED WITH A
>> JUST A QUESTION. IS THE SCHOOL PART MARKER PART OF THAT MEETING FOR NEXT MONDAY R THE IT STILL WAY DOWN ON THE LIST?
>> IT'S NOT OFFICIALLY BEEN SUBMITTED YET. WE'RE STILL WORKING ON THAT. THE ONLY ONE WE HAVE COMMITTED IS THE ST.
MARY'S EPISCOPAL CHURCH THAT I HAVE NOT HEARD WHEN THEY WILL BE
>> BUT I -- IF WE'RE GOING TO BRING UP THE MIDDLEBURG COLORED SCHOOL. I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION AND I APOLOGIZE. I DON'T HAVE THE GROUP NAME. BUT THERE ARE MEMBERS THAT FIND THAT MARKER TO BE VERY SPECIAL FOR THE COMMUNITY AND THEY ARE ACTUALLY MAKING DONATIONS AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR NAME NEXT TIME AND ACKNOWLEDGE THEM. BUT THEY ARE MAKING CONTRIBUTIONS TOWARDS
THE FUNDING OF THAT MARKER. >> OKAY.
>> BETH, I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THAT TOO. SO FOR THIS ONE, I MEAN, IT SEEMED LIKE WE'VE MOVED PRETTY FAR ALONG WITH IN.
WE'RE JUST WAITING ON THE VINYLAGE. RIGHT?
>> WHICH ONE? >> WELL, NO, THIS ONE -- EXAMPLES YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU IS ON DESIGN, NOT THE ACTUAL
>> AT THIS POINT. BUT YES. WE WILL BE GETTING TO THIS IN JUST
A MINUTE. >> YEAH. I WAS JUST WONDERING IF THERE'S A -- I FEEL LIKE WE COULD PROBABLY EXPEDITE THIS ONE AND GET THIS ONE KNOCKED OUT I MEAN IF EVERYBODY IS OKAY WITH
IT. >> THAT'S A COUNTY MARKER.
>> YEAH. YEAH, THERE'S -- WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE STATE MARKER. BUT THE COUNTY SIGN MARKERS THAT WE WOULD BE PUTTING UP, UNTIL THE STATE MARKERS CAME IN, THAT WILL BE BROUGHT UP HERE IN JUST A FEW MINUTES.
>> GOT YOU. 10-4. >> OKAY, NOW WE'LL GO TO JERRY.
>> ONE OTHER QUESTION ABOUT THIS ASSEMBLAGE OF THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO FINALLY BE REVIEWED BY THE STATE. REVIEW BOARD. WILL WE BE NOTIFIED IN GENERAL WHEN IT WILL HAPPEN SO WE MIGHT TUNE IN
WHILE THEY'RE IN PROGRESS? >> THE MEETING HAS BEEN RESCHEDULED AND I'LL DOUBLE CHECK. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO PARTICIPATE I'LL SEND YOU A LINK TO IT IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO.
>> CERTAINLY THE ONES THAT I WAS INVOLVED IN. FOR EXAMPLE, ST.MY
>> IF ONLY THE LISTEN IN, AT LEAST. TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
HOW IT GOES DOWN. >> YES, I'LL SEND AN EMAIL OUT WITH THE -- THE TIME AND I BELIEVE IT IS -- I BELIEVE IT'S NEXT WEEK. IT'S BEEN SCHEDULED TO.
>> OKAY. THANK YOU. >> ALL RIGHT, NOW WE'LL GO TO -- GO I HEAD AND JUMP ON TO THE MIDDLEBURG MUSEUM AND CIVIC CENTER. AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK TO FORD 11.
[00:15:02]
>> WE'VE GOT QUITE AN ASSEMBLAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
MOVING THIS FORWARD. SO. >> WE'RE BACK. I'M RUTH PAYNE THE PRESIDENT OF THE MIDDLEBURG MUSEUM AND I LIVE AT 4030 LAZY ACRES ROAD, MIDDLEBURG, FLORIDA AND THIS IS --
>> DEBBIE CHASE TAPE OWENS AND I'M ONE OF THE VICE PRINCIPAL?
BOY, I TELL YOU. >> YOU HAVE TO STEP CLOSER TO
THE MICROPHONE. PLEASE. >> MY NAME IS DEBRAS WHICH TAPE
OWENS AND I'M ONE OF THE -- >> YOU ARE STILL NOT BEING
PICKED UP BY THE MIC. >> NOT AT ALL? OKAY. DEBRA OWENS AND I'M WITH THE MIDDLEBURG MUSEUM AND I LIVE AT 3260
CARDINAL LANE IN MIDDLEBURG. >> OKAY.
>> OKAY. I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS BECAUSE I WANT TO FOLLOW THE PROTOCOL EXACTLY AND SO I'M GOING TO START WITH WHEN WE -- I PRESENTED THE APPLICATION AND SENT IT TO MRS. CARSON. THAT WAS IN OCTOBER OF 2023. AND SINCE THEN, WE'VE CHANGED WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR AS FAR AS MARKER. WE WERE LOOKING AT JUST ONE FOR THE MIDDLEBURG MUSEUM. BUT AFTER PRESENTING, WE CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF GOING FROM FOR A MARKER FOR THE COMMUNITY CIVIC ASSOCIATION AND US. MIDDLEBURG MUSEUM. MY QUESTION IS DO I NEED TO REAPPLY? SINCE IT'S CHANGED. THE PURPOSE HAS CHANGED.
>> DO YOU HAVE -- WELL, LET ME ASK JERRY, YOU ARE WORKING ON THIS ONE. DO YOU NEED ADDITIONAL INFORMATION?
>> I THINK BY NOW, WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION BUT OF COURSE IT INVOLVES CONSOLIDATING INFORMATION ABOUT THE TWO DIFFERENT ONES INTO ONE MARKER. RIGHT?
>> RIGHT. >> SO A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF RESEARCH AND EFFORT HAS GONE INTO THIS ON BEHALF OF THE LADIES HERE AND EVEN MYSELF. SO WE HAVE LEARNED SOME MORE THINGS BUT WE FOUND A WAY I THINK TO MAKE THEM FIT INTO THE SCRUNCHY TEXT LIMITATION WE'VE GOT. THE QUESTION ON MY MIND IS WHATEVER IS THE FORMAT ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED ENOUGH TO SUSTAIN THAT APPLICATION OR DOES IT HAVE TO BE PULLED OR MODIFIED? THOSE ARE
QUESTIONS IN MY MIND. >> I THINK IT WOULD BE MODIFIED.
>> YES, I WOULD LIKE TO BECAUSE IT'S UPDATED INFORMATION THAT WE FOUND THAT ONE OF YOUR BOARD MEMBERS HELPED US FIND. BUT YOU CAN LOOK. THAT'S THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION AND SO YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE PURPOSE IS BASICALLY SPEAKING TO THE MIDDLEBURG MUSEUM ONLY. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE -- HAVE A RECORD OF -- WE'RE WANTING TO DO THIS FOR THE CIVIC ASSOCIATION CENTER AND THE MUSEUM.
>> I THINK THAT'S FINE. THAT YOU CAN EXPAND IT. IF YOU KNOW,.
>> GOING TO SAY AND THE CIVIC CENTER? AND KEEP -- YES. I NOTICED THERE'S ONE THING THAT I FOUND THAT I THOUGHT AT LEAST ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE THERE HAD ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THEY WERE AWARE OF IT. BUT THERE'S A DETAIL THAT OUGHT TO BE MENTIONED IS WHO DONATED THE LAND WHICH WAS A COUPLE OF THE BUDDINGTONS, FLO AND HI WIFE AT THE TIME. INTERESTING THING IS WE'LL PROBABLY NEVER KNOW IN TIME TO PUT IT INTO THE DETAIL IS THEY DID IT TWICE. THEY TRIED TO DONATE IT IN 1935 WHEN I GUESS THESE -- REQUESTS FROM THE BUT THEN THEY DID IT AGAIN IN 1937 FOR REASONS NOT CLEAR TO ME OR ANYBODY ELSE.
>> THEY ALSO DID IT IN 1963. >> WOW.
>> SO WE'RE NOT SURE -- THAT'S -- THAT'S THE DEED THAT HE HELPED US FIND IN 1963, CALLIE BUDDINGTON. THE WIDOW OF FROZARD
[00:20:01]
ARE THE ONES THAT DONATED THE LAND. SHE DEEDED A PARCEL TO THE COMMISSIONERS AGAIN IN 1963 AND WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW DID THEY BUILD, HOW DO THE WPA BUILD BUILDINGS ON LAND IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CLEAR DEED TO IT? SO -- JERRY SAID HE FOUND, IN THE ARCHIVES AND I'M GOING TO ASK HIM TO GO WITH US TO SEE HIM AND SEE IF WE CAN GET IT BECAUSE WE WANT IT FOR OUR RECORDS.>> YES, SURE. >> SO WE'RE CLEAR.
>> MY SUSPICION IS THAT THE 1963 DEED WAS JUST FOR ADDITIONAL LAND. YOU KNOW, PROBABLY FOR PARKING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
BUT WOULD BE GOOD. WAS IT -- IT WAS FROM THE WIDOW TO THE
COUNTY? >> YES. TO THE COMMISSIONERS.
>> BUT IT DEFINES WHAT SHE'S GIVING UP. RIGHT?
>> RIGHT. BUT I CAN'T READ THAT KIND OF VERBIAGE. THE SURVEYING
VERBIAGE. BUT -- >> YOU CAN HAND IT TO BILLY. HE
MIGHT UNDERSTAND IT. >> I CAN TRY LOOKING AT IT.
>> GOOD, GOOD, I'M HOT MUCH OF A LAND SURVEYOR MYSELF, I WISH I
WERE. >> BUT ALSO IN YOUR PACKET, WE DID FIND WHAT WE NEEDED. THE SMOKING GUN FOR THE WPA COMPLETES 13 CLAY COUNTY PROJECTS AND IT SAYS HERE, AND THIS WAS IN THE JACKSONVILLE JOURNAL. WE GOT IT FROM GENEALOGY BANK. AND SO IT SAYS THAT THEY BUILT -- LET'S SEE.
MIDDLEBURG COMMUNITY COUNTY AND WE NEED TO BRING UP SOMETHING.
THERE'S SOME OH -- THAT'S THE FIRST ARTICLE, THERE'S ANOTHER ARTICLE IF YOU LOOK THROUGH AND I'M GIVING YOU GUYS THESE BECAUSE THIS IS THE LATEST AND GREATEST THAT WE HAVE. IF YOU LOOK BACK TO WHERE IT SAYS, LET'S SEE. $5 MILLION ASKED IN NEW APPLICATIONS. IT SAYS AT THE VERY BOTTOM FOR CLAY COUNTY.
THEY ASKED TO BUILD IN MIDDLEBURG, CONSTRUCT A COMMUNITY CENTER AND A COMPLETE CANNING CENTER HERE. FEDERAL FUNDS WERE $2,422.05. AND THEN THERE WAS A SPONSOR WHO CONTRIBUTED $587.50. SO THAT'S WHERE THE TWO BUILDINGS ARE ADDRESSED. AND IF YOU GO BACK, THERE'S ONE MORE. THE ALLOTMENT. IT SAYS ALLOTMENT OF $978,902 IS GIVEN TO THE STATE AND IT SAYS THE -- AT THE VERY END, A COMMUNITY CENTER WILL BE ERECTED AT MIDDLEBURG AT A COST TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF $2,422. SO THAT'S THE SAME AMOUNT. SO I'M -- THINKING THAT THAT'S THE TWO BUILDINGS AND DEBBIE CAN TELL YOU ON THE PROPERTY APPRAISER'S WEBSITE, EXPLAIN TO THEM, YOU GET UP
HERE. >> ON THE CLAY COUNTY PROPERTY APPRAISER'S WEBSITE, THEY HAVE THEM IDENTIFIED AS BUILDING ONE, THE CIVIC ASSOCIATION BUILDING THAT WAS BUILT ACCORDING TO THEIR RECORDS, IN 1975. AND THEN BUILDING NUMBER TWO, WHICH IS IDENTIFIED AS AN OFFICE BUILDING, TWO STORY, WHICH IS CURRENTLY THE MUSEUM, IT IS -- IT WAS BUILT EFFECTIVE YEAR
BUILT 1965. >> SO WITH THE MUSEUM DOESN'T
>> IT HAS THAT -- THEY CALL IT -- THEY CALL IT --
>> ACCORDING TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISER, IT'S TWO STORIES.
SO. BUT -- IDENTIFIED LIKE I SAID AS AN OFFICE SPACE.
>> THE DATES ARE WRONG. >> SO.
>> CONSTRUCTION. ARE NOT CORRECT. BUT ANYWAY. SO -- WE DO HAVE MORE INFORMATION AND WE HOPE THIS WILL DOCUMENT THE FACT THAT THEY WERE BUILT BY THE WPA. THANK GOODNESS, THANK YOU KATHY KASS FOR SENDING US TO THE GENEALOGY BANK.
>> TIED IT TOGETHER. >> AND -- SO.
>> WHAT WE HAVEN'T I GUESS EVER GOTTEN IS EXACTLY, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THOSE CONFUSING THINGS IF LATER DATES, WHEN DID THEY BUILD THE TWO DARN THINGS? WHEN WAS THEY ACTUALLY -- CREDITED?
>> IT SAYS THEY WERE COMPLETED IN 1937. THERE'S ONE OF THESE ARTICLES SAID IT WAS COMPLETED IN 1937.
>> OKAY. >> IT SAYS IN SEPTEMBER, THAT THEY APPLIED AND THEN IN OCTOBER, SEPTEMBER 1935, THEY
[00:25:01]
APPLIED AND THEN IT SAID THAT THEY WERE GIVEN -- STATE WAS GIVEN THE MONEY TO COMPLETE THE COMMUNITY CENTER. AND THEN THERE'S THE OTHER ONE WHERE IT SAYS IT'S FINISHED. THE SECOND PAGE. IN 1935. WPA COMPLETES 13 CLAY COUNTY PROJECTS. THAT WAS MARCH 17TH, 1937. SO THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TWO YEARS TO BE ABLE TO BUILD AND IT SAID THEY COMPLETED THAT COMMUNITY CENTER.>> WELL, THIS ARTICLE SAYS THAT THE MUSEUM WAS BUILT IN '38.
>> ANYWAY. SO MAYBE WE'LL HAVE TO TIPTOE AROUND THE EXACT DATE.
RIGHT? >> I'M GOING TO GO WITH THE WPA BUILT THEM. BUT I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S --
>> IT SAYS THAT WPA BUILT IT TOO. BUT --
>> WHICH ARTICLE ARE YOU LOOKING AT, JERRY?
>> THE COUNTY LEADER, AUGUST 10TH. 1999. BY EDNA MCDONALD WHO
OF COURSE WAS THERE FOREVER. >> RIGHT.
>> SINCE 1908. IF I REMEMBER. SO. SO -- IF WE CAN AGREE ON -- I WOULD SAY THE LATER DATE IS PROBABLY THE CORRECT ONE.
>> THE NEWSPAPER ARTICLE SAYS 1937.
>> SO DOES THIS NEWSPAPER ARTICLE.
>> RIGHT. BUT THAT'S AN ARTICLE FROM 19 -- THE 1990S.
>> YES. BUT EDNA WAS THERE. ALL THE TIME.
>> WELL. >> WAS SHE THERE IN 1937?
>> YEAH. S RIGHT. SO IF SHE SAYS '38, I'M MORE INCLINED TO GO WITH THAT BECAUSE AFTER ALL THEY ONLY GOT THE AUTHORIZATION I GUESS. THEY ONLY GOT THE DONATION OF THE LAND IN 1937. SO YOU DON'T JUST SNAP YOUR FINGERS USUALLY AND GET
SOMETHING UP. >> NO, BUT THE ARTICLE SAYS IT
WAS COMPLETED IN 1937. >> RIGHT. AND -- THIS ARTICLE SAYS IT WAS BUILT IN 1938. RIGHT. BUT THAT'S AN ARM FROM
THE 1990S. >> SO THERE COULD BE --
>> WOULD AN ARTICLE FOR THE 1990S BE MORE OR LESS RELIABLE
THAN AN ARTICLE FROM 1937? >> ALL RIGHT. WHERE'S OUR -- WHERE'S THE ONE THAT SAYS '37? WHICH WERE THESE ARTICLES?
>> THE VERY FIRST ONE. OKAY. AFTER THE APPLICATION. IT SAYS WPA COMPLETES 13 CLAY COUNTY PROJECTS.
>> OKAY. >> SO THEY REPORTED THAT WEDNESDAY, MARCH 17TH, 1937 AND AT THE BOTTOM, MIDDLEBURG COMMUNITY CENTER. SO THEY COMPLETED THAT.
>> WELL, THE COMMUNITY CENTER -- >> IS THE CIVIC CENTER.
>> SO THAT'S A DIFFERENT BUILDING.
>> NO. >> IT'S THE SAME BUILDING.
>> IT'S THE SAME, BECAUSE IT'S BUILDING ONE AND BUILDING TWO.
>> YEAH? >> AND THE SAME LAND.
>> RIGHT. SO APPARENTLY IT'S A DIFFERENT BUILDING. I GUESS.
BECAUSE THE ONE THAT EDNA WROTE APPARENTLY MENTIONS THAT THE '38 DATE APPLIES TO THE CANNING CENTER WHICH IS THE MUSEUM
TODAY. SO. >> IT'S IDENTIFIED AS ONE
PROJECT -- ONE PIECE. >> ONE PROJECT.
>> BUILDING ONE AND BUILDING TWO.
>> IS THAT GOING TO KEEP US FROM -- GETTING A MARKER QUALIFYING
FOR A MARKER? >> I'M NOT GOING TO FIGHT OVER IT. BUT I THINK IT'S PROBABLY WRONG. SO. I THINK THEY MUST HAVE DONE IT IN TWO PHASES OR WHATEVER.
>> I HAVE NOT FOUND ANYTHING TO SUBSTANTIATE THAT. SO.
>> WELL. THE ARTICLE THAT YOU ENCLOSED.
>> THE PURPOSE OF THE ARTICLE WAS TO -- HER TO EXPLAIN THE IMPORTANCE OF THE MUSEUM BUILDING TO THE COMMUNITY AND CLAY COUNTY. BECAUSE IT WAS A HEALTH DEPARTMENT AT ONE TIME.
>> QUITE RIGHT. QUITE RIGHT. >> AND MAYBE SHE THOUGHT '38.
BUT I'M JUST. >> NO, THAT'S ALL RIGHT.
>> SO WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH A WORDING IN -- AND I'D LIKE TO REQUEST THEN SINCE YOU ARE WORKING WITH US, JERRY, IF WE CAN SET ASIDE A TIME TO COME UP WITH THE WORDING AND GET THAT
TAKEN CARE OF. >> GOOD. OKAY. THAT SOUNDS GOOD.
>> ALSO GO TO THE ARCHIVES AND FIND THOSE TWO DEEDS THAT YOU -- YOU OBVIOUSLY -- YOU DIDN'T FIND THE PHOTOS. RIGHT? YOU SAID YOU THOUGHT YOU TOOK PHOTOS OF THEM?
>> YEAH. AND -- YEAH, STILL LOOKING HERE. I TAKE TOO MANY
>> JUST COMBING THROUGH AND MY EYES ARE STARTING TO GET RED.
>> WHAT ARE OUR NEXT STEPS? SO WE DON'T HAVE TO REAPPLY. WHAT
[00:30:05]
ABOUT THE -- THE MAP FOR WHERE THE MARKER'S GOING? WHEN WE SUBMITTED IT WE WERE THINKING UST MIDDLEBURG MUSEUM AND I HAD IT RIGHT THERE BESIDE THE MIDDLEBURG MUSEUM BUT NOW WITH THE COMMUNITY CENTER, WE'RE THINKING IT SHOULD BE ON SECTION-- I MEAN, ON PALMETTO STREET. >> BUT ON THE PROPERTY. NOT --
>> ON THE PROPERTY. RIGHT. >> OKAY. COULD YOU TAKE AN
AERIAL AND JUST MARK ON THERE? >> I WILL.
>> AN X AND SCAN IT AND SEND IT. YOU HAVE MY EMAIL.
>> YES. >> IF YOU'LL SEND THAT, THEN I'LL GET THE GPS COORDINATES FOR THAT LOCATION. AND WE'LL DOUBLE CHECK AND MAKE SURE IT'S OUTSIDE THE RIGHT OF WAY. AND --
>> ANYTHING ELSE? >> ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MIDDLEBURG MUSEUM AND CIVIC CENTER?
>> GET THAT INFORMATION, SO. --
>> OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>> ALL RIGHT. NOW WE'RE ON TO FORD 11.
>> YES. I WENT UP TO DC WITH MY OLD RESEARCH FRIEND. A FEW MONTHS BACK. KEVIN HOOPER. AND WHILE I WAS THERE, WE FOUND A LOT OF EXTRA PAPERS CONCERNING, YOU KNOW, ACTIVITIES OF THE FORT. THEY WERE INTERESTING ENOUGH TO GO INTO -- WELL, AN EXPANDED STORY OF THE FORT. BUT IT SEEMS LKE WHAT WE ALREADY HAD IS PRETTY MUCH ON POINT AND THEREFORE COULD STAND. AND ONLY OTHER PROBLEM IS LOCATING THE FORT FOR THE MARKER. WE HAD A LOCAL ENTHUSIAST AND, YOU KNOW, KIND OF AMATEUR ARCHAEOLOGIST WHO WAS WORKING WITH US, BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN HIM FOR A WHILE.
AND APPARENTLY, HE WAS HAVING TROUBLE GETTING PERMISSION FROM THE LOCAL LANDOWNERS TO KIND OF GET A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT EVIDENCE THERE WAS OF EXACTLY WHERE THE FORT WAS. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT WILL BE THE CASE. BUT EITHER WAY, WHATEVER HAPPENED TO DEIRDRE? DID SHE CYCLE THROUGH? SHE WAS A
MEMBER OF THE BOARD. >> SHE RESIGNED FROM THE BOARD.
>> OH. WHEN? >> IN FEBRUARY. MARCH? SORRY.
>> I GUESS THAT'S WHY I HAVEN'T SEEN HER.
>> I BELIEVE SHE IS NOW HEAD OF THE KEYSTONE HERITAGE COMMITTEE
NOW. >> WELL, YEAH. THAT'S THE OTHER THING I HAVE BEEN HEARING THAT THERE'S BEEN -- KIND OF A IMPLOSION OF THEIR -- ACTIVITIES BECAUSE OF SOME SHAKE-UP IN THE -- YOU KNOW, IN THE LEADERSHIP OF THE ACTUAL TOWN ADMINISTRATORS AND SO FORTH. SO -- I HOPE IT'S GOING TO BE SUPPORTED BY THE CURRENT LEADERS BECAUSE IT SOUND LIKE THERE WAS A BIT OF A DELAY IN ALL THAT. BUT CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A LOCATION FOR THE MARKER I GUESS.
>> YES. SO -- I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH FORT 11.
>> WELL, IT WAS IN -- IT WAS IN WHAT'S NOW KEYSTONE HEIGHTS NEXT TO ONE OF THE MEDIUM SIZED LAKES. AND IT WAS CREATED BECAUSE OF A PLAN THAT THE CURRENT GENERAL IN THE SEMINOLE WAR, ZACHARY TAYLOR, CAME UP WITH. WHICH WAS TO -- BECAUSE OF THE INDIANS WERE GRADUALLY BEING EITHER DEPORTED TO INDIAN TERRITORY, OR PUSHED FURTHER SOUTH. OR BOTH. SO THAT HE CALCULATED THAT THE BEST WAY TO DEAL WITH THE THREAT OF, YOU KNOW, ATTACKS, WAS TO MAKE SMALL CONTINGENTS WITHIN 20-MILE SQUARE SO THERE WAS ALL SYSTEMS -- SQUARES ACROSS THE MIDDLE AND NORTHERN PART OF THE STATE. OR THE TERRITORY. ONE OF WHICH WAS FORT NUMBER 11 BECAUSE THEY USED TO JUST GIVE THEM A NUMBER AND SO THE IDEA WAS TO TRY TO LOCATE EACH ONE AS CLOSE TO THE MIDDLE OF THAT SQUARE AS POSSIBLE. SO AND IT WAS. I GUESS. SO THIS WAS ONE OF THOSE FORTS THAT HAD A FAIRLY SHORT LIFE THOUGH BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT KEPT GETTING DISGUSTED WITH HOW LONG THE WAR WAS TAKING TO FINISH. AS THE INDIANS HAD -- SO EACH YEAR THEY SAID THIS IS IT YOU KNOW. SO WE DON'T NEED TO BOTHER WITH ANY
[00:35:05]
LONG-TERM STUFF. YOU KNOW? WE JUST GET THIS DONE. AND SO THEY KEPT, YOU KNOW, PULLING IN ONE GENERAL AFTER THE OTHER. AND POOR ZACHARY TAYLOR, IT WAS HIS TURN IN THE THING. SO THAT WAS HIS PLAN TO HAVE THESE 20-MILE SQUARE THINGS EACH WITH A SMALL GARRISON FORT TO PURSUE ANY INDIANS WHO ARE COMING UP AND THEY HAD REASON TO WORRY ABOUT IT BECAUSE WITHIN THAT SQUARE, THE EDGE OF IT, WAS THIS PLACE CALLED THE SCRUB. REMNANTS OF WHICH I THINK STILL EXIST. BUT IT WAS KNOWN THAT THE INDIANS KIND OF PASSED THROUGH THERE WHEN THEY WANTED TO BURN DOWN ANOTHER HOMESTEAD OR PLANTATION. EVEN THOUGH THEY GENERALLY WEREN'T LIVING THERE. BUT YOU KNOW, THEY COULD -- SHAKE THINGS UP IF THEY DID. AND SO IT HAD A STRATEGIC IMPORTANCE THAT LASTED BEYOND THE TIME IT WAS EVACUATED BECAUSE IT WAS ONLY REALLY IN FULL OPERATION FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF. BUT IT WAS ALSO A PLACE WHERE SETTLERS WHO WERE ABOUT TO BE REPOPULATING THE TERRITORY THAT HAD BEEN ABANDONED BECAUSE OF ALL THE ATTACKS, THEY WERE GIVEN THE RUN OF THAT FORT WHEN THE REGULAR TROOPS WERE EVACUATED AND SO IT PLAYED A LATER ROLE IN THAT RESPECT. SO -- YEAH. BUT LIKE ALL THE OTHER LITTLE WOODEN FORTS, ALMOST NOTHING IS LEFT OF THE FORT ITSELF. THIS BEING FLORIDA. SO. ARCHAEOLOGISTS THEY'RE WELL TRAINED AND THEY'RE GIVEN ENOUGH ACCESS CAN OFTEN FIND THE FOOTING OF THE FORT BECAUSE THE SOIL IS OF A DIFFERENT COLOR OR THE PALISADES WERE AND SO FORTH. BUT APPARENTLY IN THIS CASE, IT'S OCCUPIED BY HOUSES IN WHICH I UNDERSTAND, I COULDN'T -- YEAH, SO TOM WAS GOING TO WORK ON THAT.>> DO YOU WANT TO REACH OUT TO TOM, SEE IF HE'S FOUND ANY MORE
LOCATION? >> BEG YOUR PARDON? IT'S WORTH DOING IT ONE MORE TIME BUT HE DIDN'T SOUND TOO OPTIMISTIC THE LAST TIME WE TALKED. AS A MATTER OF FACT I'D BE WILLING TO TRY
THE TALK TO THEM IF THAT HELPED. >> BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE AT THIS POINT, MIGHT BE -- WE MAY HAVE TO SETTLE FOR A GENERAL AREA.
NOT NECESSARILY -- >> YEAH. I DON'T SEE WHY NOT.
YOU KNOW, MYSELF -- I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE CURRENT CITY RULERS, YOU KNOW, ARE, YOU KNOW, WANT TO DESIGNATE A PLACE FOR IT. I GUESS I'M GOING TO HAVE TO TRY TO FIND OUT BECAUSE IT WAS OFF THE BOARD. I GUESS YOU CAN CALL HER AND SEE WHAT THE DEAL IS. BUT ONE OF TWO OF HER ASSOCIATES WHO ARE ALSO PUSHING THIS PROJECT. THEY KIND OF STEPPED DOWN BECAUSE THEY FELT THEY WERE NOT GETTING ANYWHERE ON WHAT THEY THOUGHT, YOU KNOW,
WAS IN THE PROCESS TO -- >> OKAY.
>> GET THIS DONE. >> OKAY. SO I'LL TALK TO TOM AND DEIRDRE. OR TRY TO. YEAH, UNDERSTAND IT IS -- YEAH. AS LONG AS IT'S IN THE APPROXIMATE AREA, ALSO IN THE MAP THAT I HAD RECORDED SEVERAL YEARS AGO NOT KNOWING I'D NEVER NEED IT, IT WAS THAT SQUARE. AND -- IT SHOWS THAT JUST BETWEEN THE FORT AND THE POND OR LAKE, WAS AN INDIAN MOUND WHICH YOU KNOW, APPARENTLY NO ONE SEEMS TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO IT. LIKE MOST OF THEM I GUESS THEY WERE JUST PLUNDERED FOR ROAD MATERIAL. OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YEAH.
>> ALL RIGHT. THAT CONCLUDES THE MARKER PROJECTS. NOW WE'LL GO ON TO MISS KATHY AND THE CEMETERY PROGRESS REPORT.
>> ALL RIGHT. WELL, I'M LEARNING A LOT ABOUT CLAY COUNTY.
DRIVING AROUND CLAY COUNTY. I'M SURE THERE'S MORE BURIAL GROUNDS THAN WHAT WE'VE EVEN IDENTIFIED. IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS, WE'VE ADDED 16 HISTORIC CEMETERIES TO THE FLORIDA STATE MASTER FILE. THAT'S QUITE A BIT AND I HAVE COVERED A LOT OF AREA WITH THE HELP OF SOME OF MY VOLUNTEERS. AND I'M -- ONE OF THE LAST ONES WE WENT TO, WE DID A TRIP DOWN TO KEYSTONE. AND ON
[00:40:04]
THE WAY, WE WENT TOEVERGREEN CEMETERY WHICH WAS IN BELLMORE.WE WERE LUCKY ENOUGH TO ARE THE LANDOWNER GIVE US ACCESS BECAUSE IT'S ON HER PROPERTY AND I'M STILL DEALING WITH TICK AND CHIGGER BITES FROM THAT EPISODE. THAT WAS -- THAT WAS RATHER EXCITING. IT'S NOT IN REALLY GOOD SHAPE. IT JUST NEEDS TO BE MOWED. AND THERE ARE SOME GRAVESTONES THAT NEED TO BE REPAIRED AND SUCH. BUT WE DID GO DOWN TO KEYSTONE. WE HAD SEVEN ON THE LIST THAT DAY. AND WE -- WHAT DID WE HIT? FOUR? FOUR.
FOUR OUT OF SEVEN. AND INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, THE KEYSTONE CEMETERY, HALF OF IT OR PART OF IT IS IN BRADFORD COUNTY AND PART OF IT IS IN CLAY. SO EVEN THOUGH IT'S THE SAME CEMETERY, IT'S ALL OWNED BY THE CITY OF KEYSTONE HEIGHTS AND THEY MAINTAIN IT. BUT WHEN I SUBMITTED IT, I HAD TO SUBMIT BOTH SECTIONS SO IT NOW HAS A SITE FILE NUMBER FOR THE CLAY PORTION AND A SITE FILE NUMBER FOR BRADFORD COUNTY PART OF IT.
WE DID HAVE A COUPLE OF EXCITING TRIPS WHILE WE WERE DOWN THERE.
BECAUSE WE HAD SOME KIND OF CHALLENGES. ONE OF THEM IS -- THE HIGH RIDGE ESTATE CEMETERY ON THE GIS FILE. THAT YOU GUYS SENT ME. THAT HAS AN EXACT ADDRESS. WELL, WE WENT THERE.
I'M GLAD I HAVE FOUR WHEEL DRIVE. ON MY VEHICLE. THERE'S -- HOUSES THERE, IT'S KIND OF A ROUGH AREA. NOBODY SEEMS TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT. SO MY QUESTION IS, IT'S ON THE GIS WITH AN ACTUAL ADDRESS. HOW DID YOU GET THAT INFORMATION? WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? BECAUSE I EVEN WENT TO THE POST OFFICE THERE IN LAKE VEINY SOMEWHERE AND ONE OF THE GUYS AT THE POST OFFICE WAS -- HAD LIVED IN THE AREA FOR A LONG TIME AND HE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT. SO --
>> I'LL REACH OUT TO OUR GIS DEPARTMENT AND ASK THEM HOW THEY
GOT THAT LAYER. >> YEAH, BECAUSE IT HAS AN EXACT ADDRESS AND IT WAS KIND OF SCARY TRYING TO GET -- GET THERE. SOL WE ARE STILL REACHING SEVERAL OTHER ONES. BUT -- YOU KNOW, WE DID MAKE -- WE DID MAKE SOME PROGRESS. WE DID GET ABILENE BAPTIST CHURCH CEMETERY ON THERE. THE CHURCH IS NEXT TO THE CEMETERY, THE CEMETERY IS NEXT TO THE CHURCH. AND THE CHURCH IS STILL ACTIVE. THEY HAVE AN ACTIVE FACEBOOK PAGE. BUT THEY HAVE NO PHONE NUMBER. AND NO WAY TO CONTACT THEM. BUT -- THE CEMETERY WAS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. SO WE WERE STILL ABLE TO GO AND
ASSESS IT. WHICH IS -- GOOD. >> WHAT CHURCH IS IT?
>> ABILENE BAPTIST CHURCH CEMETERY IN MELROSE.
>> WHAT DENOMINATION? >> IT'S A BLACK CEMETERY.
>> WHAT DENOMINATION? >> IT'S BAPTIST. BAPTIST CHURCH. IT'S WELL TAKEN CARE OF. THE CHURCH MAINTAINS IT. BUT I NEVER WAS ABLE TO CONTACT ANYBODY WITH THE CHURCH. THEY HAVE NO PHONE NUMBER LISTED FOR ANYBODY. BUT THEY ARE STILL ACTIVE. THEY HAVE AN ACTIVE FACEBOOK PAGE AND STUFF LIKE THAT. BECAUSE WE WANTED TO GET A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION. SO -- ONE OF THE THINGS I'M DOING AS I'M GOING THROUGH THESE CEMETERIES IS -- YES, IT'S IMPORTANT TO GET THEM REGISTERED WITH THE FLORIDA STATE MASTER SITE AND FILE. RIGHT? SO THEY'RE PROTECTED. BUT I'M ALSO DOING RESEARCH ABOUT THE HISTORIC CEMETERIES IN CLAY COUNTY. AND THERE'S A LOT OF INTERESTING HISTORY BEHIND THEM. ONE THAT WAS ALREADY ON THE MASTER FILE IS DEEGAN AND IT'S A SINGULAR GRAVE IN THE MIDDLE OF BELLMORE STATE FOREST. AND I WAS ABLE TO REACH OUT TO THE FOLKS WITH THE FOREST SERVICE AND THEY SENT ME ALL KINDS OF INTERESTING INFORMATION IN THE HISTORY BEHIND HIM. AND WHEN BELLMORE CITY WAS SUPPOSED TO BE TREAT CREATED AND HOW HE ENDED UP THERE AND ALL THAT STUFF. I THINK THIS IS IS -- IT'S IMPORTANT TO PRESERVE THE CEMETERY BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO PRESERVE THE HISTORY BEHIND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE AND WHAT THEY WENT THROUGH. AND WHAT THEIR LIVES WERE LIKE. AS I WAS
[00:45:08]
GOING THROUGH, I'M ACTUALLY BEEN RESEARCHING DEATH CERTIFICATES FROM CLAY COUNTY THAT ARE FROM THE LATE TEENS TO 1939. AND I HAVE BEEN COMING THROUGH SEVERAL OF THEM WHERE THEY SAY THEY'RE BURIED IN LENO CEMETERY OR WEST TACOY CEMETERY. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE PEOPLE THAT WORKED IN WEST TACOY IF THEY WERE BURIED SOMEWHERE AROUND THAT AREA, OR IF THEY WERE BURIED SOMEWHEREELSE. >> NOW WITH THEM, DID YOU TRY
DECOY BAPTIST CHURCH. >> THE ONES I'M FINDING ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATES SAYS THEY'RE BURIED ARE THERE BLACK PEOPLE.
AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT DEKOI WAS BURYING BLACK PEOPLE IN THE EARLY '20S IN THEIR CEMETERY. I THINK IT HAS TO BE SOMEWHERE ELSE. ONE OF THE LADIES THAT, HER HUSBAND BOTH HER DEATH CERTIFICATE SAYS THEY LIVED IN WEST DECOY. HER DEATH CERTIFICATE SAYS SHE'S BURIED IN MOUNT OLIVE. I'M WONDERING IF THEY WERE NOT BURIED THERE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF OTHER BURIAL GROUNDS. I HAVE ALSO RUN INTO A GENTLEMAN THAT WAS PART OF THE INMATE LEASING PROGRAM. AND HE WAS ON A CONVICT LEASING OR A CONVICT CAMP. WORKING ON A TURPENTINE FARM AND HE DIED IN THE '20S AND WE CAN'T READ THE NAME OF THE CEMETERY. AND WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHERE HE IS. SO I'M SURE THAT THERE ARE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT BURIAL GROUNDS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY THAT WE'RE JUST NOT AWARE OF. SO I'M TRYING TO GET THE WORD OUT MORE WITH FOLKS. SO I TELL PEOPLE EVEN IF YOU KNOW OF WHAT YOU THINK IS A BURIAL SITE, OR YOU FIND WHERE THERE'S A HEADSTONE, SOMEWHERE IN AN AREA, TO LET US KNOW SO WE CAN INVESTIGATE IT AND MAKE SURE THAT THOSE THINGS ARE PROTECTED.
SO LOT OF RESEARCH, LOT OF RUNNING AROUND CLAY COUNTY. A LOT OF INTERESTING HISTORY. I DID TALK TO BRIE WHO RECENTLY DID A PRESENTATION AT THE CLAY COUNTY HISTORICAL SOCIETY MEETING ABOUT HIGH BERNIE AND CONNECTED WITH HER. BECAUSE I FOUND SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE BURIED THERE THAT WERE NOT PREVIOUSLY LISTED. SO SHE'S WORKING ON TRYING TO IDENTIFY SOME OF THE UNMARKED GRAVES THERE. SO THAT'S WHY THIS IS IMPORTANT. IT'S NOT JUST PRESERVING THE CEMETERIES. IT'S PRESERVING THE HISTORY AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BURIED WITHIN THESE PLACES IN CLAY COUNTY. THERE YOU GO, THAT'S MY 50
CENTS CENTS WORTH. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE. NOW THEN WE'LL GO TO COUNTY HISTORIC SIGNAGE DISCUSSION. AND YOU WILL SEE BEFORE YOU ALL A PICTURE SHOWING THREE DIFFERENT OR FOUR DIFFERENT DESIGNS. WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THE DESIGNS A FEW MONTHS BACK. WE TOOK WHAT I TOOK WHAT Y'ALL HAD PICKED OUT AND MADE A MOCK UP. WE SENT IT TO COMMUNICATIONS. THEY HAD SOME SUGGESTIONS. WHICH IS A. THEN B WAS KIND OF THE -- DESIGN THAT Y'ALL KIND OF PICKED OUT. C IS JUST A DIFFERENT COLOR BORDER TO TRY TO MAKE IT STAND OUT LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. AND THEN D IS KIND OF A -- COMBINATION OF THE OTHER THREE. TRYING TO MAKE IT AGAIN, STAND OUT FROM YOUR REGULAR ROAD STREET SIGNS. BUT YET KEEP IT WHERE WE GET THE MOST -- WE CAN GET THE MOST TEXT IN WITHOUT BEING DISTRACTIONS ON
IT AS WELL. SO -- >> I LIKE D.
>> I LIKE A. >> I'M A FAN OF A.
>> IS THE CHARACTER COUNT? YOU KNOW, WITHIN --
>> THE CHARACTER COUNT WILL FIT -- WE CAN MAKE THE CHARACTER COUNT FIT WITHIN THE SPACES. IT'S JUST THE SIZE OF THE FONT
[00:50:04]
THAT CHANGES. >> YEAH, MY ONLY CONCERN WITH A
IS THAT THE FONT IS SMALLER. >> I WAS THINKING ABOUT THAT AND I'M, YOU KNOW, IN-PERSON WOULDIC IT LOOK BIGGER? THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING I KNOW. BUT AS FAR AS THE APPEAL, LIKE I MEAN, JUST REALLY STANDS OUT AND I LIKE THE AESTHETICS OF IT.
>> WELL. I MEAN. I DO TOO EXCEPT, YOU KNOW, LITERACY HAS ITS PLACE. SO PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO READ IT. YOU KNOW.
WITHOUT EYESTRAIN. YOU KNOW, SO I DON'T KNOW.
>> WELL, NOW THESE SIGNS WILL BE THREE FEET BY FOUR FEET. SO I MEAN, THE TEXT WOULD BE ANYWHERE FROM ROUGHLY A HALF INCH TO JUST
UNDER AN INCH TALL. >> AND WHAT -- WHAT IF -- SEE THE SIDE BORDERS? WHAT IF WE JUST PULLED THAT WHITE OUT AND THAT WOULD GIVE MORE SPACE TO INCREASE THE FONT SIZE?
>> YEAH. WELL, SEE, YOU CAN'T -- YOU HAVE TO HAVE A -- YOU HAVE TO HAVE DEFINED AREA WITH THE BORDER. AND NOW UNLESS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT MAKING THAT BORDER SKINNIER.
>> YEAH. WELL. I'M JUST SAYING THE SIDES OF IT. AND IMAGINE IF THAT WAS JUST WHITE AND THERE WAS JUST BLUE ON THE BOTTOM AND
TOP. >> YEAH, BUT AGAIN, YOU NEED TO
>> SO WHAT IF YOU DID MORE LIKE D, WHERE IT'S A THINNER BORDER ON THE BOTTOM AND THE SIDES, AND A BIGGER BORDER ON THE TOP?
>> YEAH. >> THAT WOULD GIVE YOU MORE
>> YES, MA'AM. >> THAT IS AN OPTION AS WELL.
YEP. SO IS THERE ANYBODY THAT'S KIND OF THE -- OR YOU LIKE THE TOP OF A? BUT WANT THE SIDES AND BOTTOM TO LOOK LIKE D?
>> CORRECT. >> I MEAN, I'M -- I'M TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT SO I CAN MAKE UP A -- A TRUE MOCK UP TO SEND TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AND THE COMMUNICATION TEAM.
>> I THINK THAT'D BE PERFECT. >> FOR THEIR APPROVAL.
>> YEAH. I WOULD JUST LIKE THE FONT TO BE BIG ENOUGH TO ATTRACT PUBLIC ATTENTION. YOU KNOW, SO --
>> THEY'LL SEE IT. >> THIS IS GOING -- THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE NEXT TO THE ROADSIDE. THIS IS GOING TO BE ACTUALLY THE THING RIGHT NEXT TO LIKE --
>> THE BUILDING. >> THE BUILDING. LIKE IF WE WERE GOING TO DO THIS FOR THE CIVIC CENTER, THEN IT WOULD GO RIGHT NEXT TO THE BUILDING. IT'S NOT GOING TO GO OUT BY STREET. IT WILL BE UP THERE BY THE BUILDING. OR, YOU KNOW, OR AT THE LIKE WITH THE MIDDLEBURG COLORED SCHOOL. IT WOULD BE RIGHT OUTSIDE THE DOOR OF THE SCHOOL. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE 30 FEET AWAY AT THE EDGE OF THE ROAD.
>> I THINK A IS -- A'S HEADER IS MOST BEAUTIFUL. KIND OF HAS MORE ACCURATE WITH THE ERA THAT WE'RE GOING FOR. THE HISTORICAL
KIND OF ASPECT. >> OKAY. SO I GOT DIRECTION ON THAT. SO IF EVERYBODY'S GOOD WITH THAT, THEN I'LL MAKE A MOCK UP OF THAT AND GET IT SENT TO THE COMMUNICATIONS TEAM AND COUNTY MANAGER FOR FINAL APPROVAL.
>> SO IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO HAVE A SIGN LIKE THAT DONE, WHAT IS THE PROCESS TO DO THAT IN? WELL, I'M GLAD YOU ASKED.
>> BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO BE --
>> THAT'S WHAT WE WERE GOING TO TALK ABOUT NEXT TOO.
>> TALK ABOUT NEXT. BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT RISE TO THE LEVEL OF AL STATE MARKER. OR WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO FIND ALL THE DOCUMENTS TO SATISFY A -- STATE MARKER. BUT WE KNOW FOR SURE -- EVEN THOUGH WE CANNOT FIND THE DOCUMENTATION, WE KNOW WHAT IT WAS AND WHAT IT. FOR EXAMPLE, THE MIDDLEBURG CANNING BUILDING. EVERYBODY KNOWS IT WAS PROBABLY BUILT BY THE WPA BUT THERE FOR A WHILE WE DIDN'T HAVE THE ACTUAL -- ANY DOCUMENTATION THAT SAID THAT. SO AT THAT POINT WE WERE LOOKING AT EITHER DOING A COUNTY MARKER OR COUNTY SIGNAGE MARKER OR TRYING TO JUST, YOU KNOW, LEAVE OUT THE WPA A PART OF THE STATE MARKER TEXT. SO -- AGAIN, THIS IS JUST ANOTHER OPTION. BUT WE DO NEED TO COME UP WITH SOME CRITERIA SO THAT WE KNOW WHEN DIFFERENT GROUPS COME TO US. IF -- WHICH WAY WE CAN GO. NUMBER ONE. AND NUMBER TWO, WE ALSO NEED TO DECIDE IF WE WANT -- AS
[00:55:06]
PART OF THE APPLICATION PROCESS, DO WE WANT THE GROUP ASKING US TO DO THE MARKER OR SIGNAGE TO COME UP WITH THE MAIN TEXT AND US VERIFY THEIR INFORMATION AND CLEAN UP THE TEXT TO FIT IT WITHIN THE CHARACTERS-TYPE DEAL? BECAUSE THAT NEEDS TO BE PART OFTHE PROCESS AS WELL. >> I WOULD THINK IF THEY'RE GOING TO APPLY, THEY SHOULD PUT TOGETHER THEIR TEXT AND PROVIDE SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION FOR IT.
>> YES. SOURCE. >> ON THE APPLICATION AS OF NOW, DOES IT -- DISTINGUISH BETWEEN STATE AND COUNTY?
>> WELL, RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A PROCESS FOR A COUNTY SIGN MARKER. BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO. BUT WE DO NEED TO FIGURE THAT PART OUT. NOW ONE OPTION IS WE CAN KIND OF TAKE THE STATE APPLICATION AND MODIFY IT TO MEET OUR NEEDS AND CRITERIA. THERE'S NO REASON TO REINVENT THE WHEEL WHEN WE CAN JUST TAKE THE WHEEL AND MODIFY IT FOR OUR OWN USE. SO THERE IS THAT OPTION. BUT WE DO NEED TO COME TO SOME SORT OF CONSENSUS AS TO WHAT KIND OF CRITERIA ARE WE LOOKING AT, ARE WE WANTING IT TO BE MORE CULTURAL AND HISTORICAL? YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, WHERE LYNYRD SKYNYRD HELL HOUSE WAS OFF RUSSELL ROAD. YOU KNOW, THAT'S A CULTURAL-TYPE THING.
MAYBE NOT NECESSARILY HI TOUR COOL IN THE SENSE THAT IT'S NOT YOU KNOW, 150 YEARS OLD. BUT IT IS A CULTURAL THING THAT HAS,
YOU KNOW, CULTURAL HISTORY. >> YEAH.
>> WELL, STEVE'S -- STEVE YOU KNOW, WITH HIS WORK AT PLEASANT
POINT, THAT MIGHT BE ONE THAT -- >> AND THAT'S THE OTHER THING TOO. IS WE YOU KNOW, AT THIS POINT IT MIGHT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE CEMETERIES THAT MIGHT BE EASIER TO GET UP A COUNTY SIGN MARKER TO EXPLAIN THE HISTORY AND SIGNIFICANCE OF THE CEMETERIES. THEN GOING FULL BORE FOR --
>> SOME OF THOSE WOULDN'T BE -- A STATE MARKER PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE APPLICABLE. SOME MIGHT.
>> YEAH. SO I -- YOU KNOW, I ENTERTAIN ANY THOUGHTS,
DISCUSSION ON THE PROCESS. >> I THINK WE COULD FIGURE OUT IF WE CAN DO THE APPLICATION, SO THEY DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE TWO, AND THEN MAKE THE HIGHER ONE THE STATE ONE, JUST A LITTLE BIT OF HIGHER LIKE THRESHOLD IN ORDER TO LIKE MEET THAT LEVEL.
SO IF THAT IS SOMETHING THEY'D LIKE TO DO, WE CAN KIND OF KEEP THEY GET THAT INFORMATION OVER THE LINE. TO WHERE IT'D BE SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH TO DO THE STATE LEVEL.
>> THE OTHER THING IS THE COST. >> CORRECT.
>> BECAUSE THE STATE MARKERS ARE REALLY PROHIBITIVE WITH OUR
BUDGET. >> YES. WE SHOULD MAKE THAT A
THRESHOLD. PRETTY SIGNIFICANT. >> OKAY. BUT THAT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO PUT TOGETHER FOR ME POINT? AND THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN KIND OF USE AS A -- AN EXAMPLE TO GO FORWARD. HE'S ALREADY GOT HIS DOCUMENTATION TO SUPPORT IT.
>> YEAH. WE CAN DO THAT. BECAUSE AGAIN LIKE I SAID, ORIGINALLY, WHEN I FIRST WAS KIND OF THROWING THIS IDEA OUT THERE, BECAUSE IT TAKES SO LONG TO GET A STATE MARKER I WAS THINKING WE CAN USE THIS-TYPE SIGN AS A TEMPORARY MARKER UNTIL THE STATE MARKER CAME IN. AND THEN OR AS -- SOMETHING FOR THAT IS JUST -- LOCAL TO CLAY COUNTY LIKE THE CEMETERIES YOU KNOW, CULTURAL THINGS LIKE -- YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID THE HELL HOUSE LOCATION.
BETH. IF YOU CAN SHOOT ME AN -- SOME SORT OF EDIBLE-TYPE --
>> COULDN'T YOU USE SOMETHING LIKE THE OTHER APPLICATION?
>> SO THE APPLICATION AND I'M GLAD MRS. PAYNE BROUGHT IN THIS BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE A COPY HANDY. BUT THIS IS WHAT I CREATED BECAUSE BACK -- BACK IN THE BEGINNING OF MYCOMAING WITH THIS COMMITTEE. THE COMMITTEE WAS WRITING THE LANGUAGE FOR THE AUGUSTA SALVAGE MARKER. THEY WERE WRITING THE LANGUAGE AND I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH BACKGROUND MATERIAL HAD BEEN
[01:00:04]
PROVIDED BY WHOEVER WAS THE ACTUAL ONE THAT STARTED THAT PROCESS. BUT I KNOW WHEN DR. YOUNG WAS HERE, SHE WAS -- AN ADVOCATE FOR THE APPLICATION SHOULD INCLUDE BASICALLY EVERYTHING THAT'S REQUIRED FOR A STATE MARKER INCLUDING THE LANGUAGE THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO HAVE FOR THE MARKER.>> I THINK SHE WAS SUGGESTED THAT THE APPLICATION SHOULD BE NEARLY COMPLETE TO SUBMIT TO THE STATE AND THAT YOU ALL WOULD VERIFY THE DETAILS, AND I CAN CERTAINLY THROW THIS ONE OUT AND CREATE ONE FROM THE STATE MARKE APPLICATION THAT'S MORE ROBUST AND REALLY WOULD GET US APPLICATIONS THAT ARE MORE COMPLETE THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME GETTING THE DOCUMENTATION.
>> AND THEY PROVIDE THE APPLICATION, THE VERBIAGE AND THE SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION. WHAT ABOUT ONCE THEY SUBMIT IT, THEN IT HAS TO GO AND BE APPROVED, CORRECT?
>> FIRST OF ALL,ALL, WE TO GET A BLESSING THAT WE'RE APPROVED TO HAVE THIS SIGNAGE GOING UP.
>> AND THEN I CAN CERTAINLY MAKE AN APPLICATION TO REQUEST AS MUCH DETAIL AS WHATEVER YOU WANT. IF YOU WANT THE STATE MARKER LEVEL OF DETAIL.
SOME THINGS MAY NOT WARRANT THAT AMOUNT AND MAY NOT HAVE THAT AMOUNT OF DETAIL,
BECAUSE THE EXAMPLES THAT YOU'VE GIVEN ARE GREAT AS FAR AS THE ACTUAL SIGNAGE. YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE PROCESS HAS TO BE APPROVED, THE APPLICATION HAS TO BE -- IT WOULD BE SUBMITTED AND THEN IT WOULD COME TO YOU ALL AND YOU WOULD DECIDE TO -- BECAUSE YOUR BUDGET WOULD BE PAID FOR A COUNTY MARKER, AS WELL.
>> AND BASICALLY TO USE THEIR APPLICATION, IF WE HADN'T BEEN WORKING ON THIS AND THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THEY CAME HERE THEY WOULD HAND US THIS AND WE CAN THEN BASICALLY LOOK THROUGH HERE AND YOU KNOW, BE ABLE TO VERIFY ALL THE INFORMATION WITH THE TEXT A LITTLE BIT HERE AND THERE TO -- IF WE NEEDED TO, TO MAKE THE CHARACTER COUNT AND THE
PROCESS. >> SO IF WE HAVE THIS PROCESS IN PLACE AND IT'S APPROVED, THE COUNTY WOULD PAY FOR THE MARKER OR THE ORGANIZATION OR THE PERSON SUBMITTING IT WOULD PAY FOR THE MARKER?
>> THEY TYPICALLY SUBMIT THEIR APPLICATION AND THEN YOU WOULD REVIEW IT.
WE DON'T USUALLY GET REQUESTS FROM PEOPLE WHO WOULD FUND IT THEMSELVES.
THEY USUALLY COME TO THE BOARD.
>> RIGHT. IF THEY HAVE DONATIONS --
>> WE DO HAVE THE MEANS THAT THEY CAN MAKE DONATIONS IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO CONTRIBUTE TO
>> I SUGGEST WE INCLUDE THAT INFORMATION IN THE PACKET, AS WELL.
>> WE HAVE A LITTLE CHECK BOX CONTRIBUTION BY THE APPLICANT OR SOMETHING IF THEY WANT TO DO THAT.
>> AND I CAN MARK IT UP MORE ONCE THE FINAL DESIGN IS APPROVED, I CAN GIVE YOU MORE DETAILS PROCESSED THERE, AS WELL.
>> SO I'LL GET THE APPLICATION TOGETHER FOR THE NEXT MEETING SO YOU CAN LOO IT OVER AND SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING MORE YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD, AND I KNOW YOU'VE APPLIED -- I GREW UP IN NEW JERSEY. SO IT WAS POINT PLEASANT, AND IT'S PLEASANT POINT. I'LL SAY IT BACKWARD EVERY
TIME. >> I NEED TO CONSIDER WHERE THEY WANT TO SIGN OR --
>> SO YOU WOULD NOT BE LOOKING FOR THE HISTORIC MARKER.
COUNTY SIGN. >> I THINK, WELL, HOW BACKED UP IS THE STATE, YOU KNOW? IS IT POSSIBLE TO DO A COUNTY SIGN AND MAYBE IN THE FUTURE THE CONSIDERATION FOR STATE?
>> NO. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE COUNTY
[01:05:03]
APPLICATION SHOULD INCLUDE THE BASICS FOR THE STATE MARKER SO THAT WAY, LIKE, FOR HIS EXAMPLE, IF HE GIVES US THE APPLICATION AND HE SAYS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF FUNDING, YOU WANT THE COUNTY MARKER, THAT'S FINE.YOU KNOW, COULD THIS -- IN LINE COULD BECOME THE STATE MARKER DOWN THE ROAD THEN THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE ABLE TO FILL OUT TWO APPLICATIONS IF WE WANT TO BECOME A STATE MARKER AT A LATER DATE BECAUSE HE MAY HAVE THE INFORMATION, BUT HE MAY MOVE TO TEXAS AND HE'S NOT HERE AND THEN EVERYTHING WE DID FOR A STATE MARKER WOULD BE LOST.
>> IS THE STATE MARKER AS MUCH ROOM AS FAR AS VERBIAGE GOES? I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE
SMALLER. >> IT'S THE SAME CHARACTER COUNT. I WAS GOING TO KEEP IT THE SAME CHARACTER COUNT JUST BECAUSE IF WE JUST WANTED TO BUMP IT UP TO A STATE MARKER ANOTHER FIVE YEARS WHEN WE HAVE ALL OF THE ONES OUT OF THE THING WE COULD.
>> BUT FOR THE SAKE OF FINALITY WHERE IT'S NOT IN LIMBO, NECESSARILY, CAN WE DO THE TWO APPLICATIONS AND THAT PERSON INITIALLY SUBMITTED IT, WE PROBABLY HAVE THAT INFORMATION FROM THE FIRST TIME AND MAYBE USE THE SIMILAR INFORMATION AND SUBMIT IT AS A STATE MARKER, MAYBE?
>> I MEAN, THAT IS A POSSIBILITY.
AT THE SAME TIME WE ARE PAYING FOR STUFF OUT OF THE SAME POT. SO IF WE DO -- ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT SUBMITTING THE APPLICATION AT THE
I'M SAYING THE TRANSACTION ITSELF AS FAR AS WHAT WE'RE PAYING FOR TO BE FINALIZED ON A COUNTY LEVEL THAT'S ONE TRANSACTION, AND THEN IN ORDER TO BUMP IT TO THE STATE IN THE FUTURE IT WOULD BE A SECOND TRANSACTION. SO FOR THE SAKE OF IT NOT BEING IN LIMBO STATUS, THE COUNTY MARKER IS DONE SO MAYBE DO THE STATE ONE.
>> YEAH, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE SHOULD HAVE ALL OF THE INFORMATION TO DO A STATE MARKER WITH THE FIRST FILING SO THAT WAY IF WEWE -- JUST THE EXAMPLE, IF WE DO THE SIGN NOW AND THEN IN A FEW YEARS, YOU KNOW, OUR FUNDING IS AVAILABLE TO DO A STATE MARKER, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO GO BACK TO HIM TO KICK IT UP TO THE STATE. WE CAN DO THAT AS A BOARD WITHOUT HAVING TO DO ALL OF THE RESEARCH ALL OVER. YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING?
>> ABSOLUTELY. MY QUESTION IS WHAT'S THE PROCESS TO DO THAT IN ORDER TO KICK IT UP? HAVE WE DONE ANYTHING LIKE THAT
BEFORE? >> WE HAVEN'T DONE THAT BEFORE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A COUNTY
MARKER. >> MAYBE WHEN THE APPLICATION COMES IN THEY CHECK BOTH BOXESBOXES THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A LOCAL MARKER OR A LOCAL SIGN IN THE INTERIM AND THEN THEY GET IN LINE.
YEAH. THAT -- YOU VERBALIZED WHAT I WAS TRYING TO
SAY. >> BECAUSE I WONDER IF SOME PEOPLE WOULD JUST BE HAPPY WITH THE COUNTY MARKER, YOU KNOW?
>> WELL, YEAH, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS I DON'T WANT -- I DIDN'T WANT US TO DO A COUNTY MARKER --
>> -- AND HAVE IT BE JUST ENOUGH INFORMATION FOR THE COUNTY MARKER AND A FEW YEARS DOWN THE ROAD WE GO TO DO A STATE MARKER, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO GAVE US THE INFORMATION HAS MOVED ON OR WHATEVER AND THAT INFORMATION IS LOST, SO WE COULDN'T AND WE'D HAVE TO SPEND MONTHS TRYING TO REDO WHAT WAS ALREADY DONE.
>> SO THERE IS A FORMAT FOR THE APPLICATION FOR A COUNTY MARKER?
>> THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO WORK OUT AT THIS POINT TO GIVE THE DIRECTION WITH THE
APPLICATION. >> IT PUTS A DIFFERENT HEADING ON THE STATE MARKER.
>> WELL, AGAIN, THAT WAS ONE OF THE OPTIONS, AS WELL, SO --
>> BUT ALSO TO SOME DEGREE YOU WANT TO HAVE AS MUCH DETAIL RESEARCH DOCUMENTATION WHETHER IT'S JUST A COUNTY SIGN OR AA MARKER.
YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE PUTTING OUT ACCURATE INFORMATION AND IN A WAY YOU WANT TO VET IT THE SAME.
>> HOW IS THAT FOR THE COUNTY MARKER? IS THERE A SUBCOMMITTEE FORM TO REVIEW REFERENCES? IS IT DONE IN THE MEETING HERE?
>> WELL, IN THE PAST WE HAVE WHEN SOMEONE COMES UP TO
[01:10:03]
US, AND I'LL USE MIDDLEBURGH, FOR EXAMPLE. THEY CAME TO US FOR A MARKER AND ONE OF THE VOLUNTEERS CAME UP WITH THE TEXT AND ALL OF THE SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION AND THEN AND WE HAD SUBCOMMITTEES, AS WELL. IF TWO MEMBERS WANTED TO WORK ON IT TOGETHER AND THAT'S WHEN THE SUNSHINE STUFF CAME INTO EFFECT WHERE WE HAD TO ESTABLISH MEETING LOCATION AND ADVERTISE A MEETING, AND THAT WOULD BE THESUBCOMMITTEE. >> THE SUB COMMITTEES HAVE MET IN MEETING ROOMS AND THE HISTORICAL COURTHOUSE DOWNTOWN HERE.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE HAVE TO COME HERE TO DO IT. YOU CAN --
>> BUT IF YOU HAVE AN APPLICATION FOR A COUNTY ONE BECAUSE THIS WILL BE A NEW PROCESS.
THAT PROCESS HAS TO BE APPROVED BY THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS? WHO HAS TO APPROVE THAT PROCESS?
>> THE -- THE BOARD RIGHT NOW. THE HISTORIC BOARD WOULD APPROVE THAT. WE'LL HAVE TO -- FIRST OF ALL, WE STILL HAVE TO GET THESE APPROVED AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE PROCESS AND MAKEMAKE WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THE COUNTY WANTS US TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, BUT I'LL MAKE SURE THAT'S CLEAR WHEN THEY COME
BACK. >> GENERALLY, THIS BOARD HAS JUST APPROVED HISTORIC MARKERS AND IF IT'S GOING ON WITH THE COUNTY VERSUS THE
>> ALL RIGHT. NOW TO THE SECOND
[Staff Comments]
PUBLIC COMMENTS.ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WANT TO SPEAK? SEEING NOBODY WE WILL MOVE ON TO STAFF COMMENTS.
>> I WAS ABLE TO LOOK UP TO SEE THE DATE THAT THE COUNCIL IS HEARING THE BRANDENFIELD MARKER.
IT IS MONDAY THE 18TH FROM 2:00 TO 4:00 P.M. IF YOU WANT TO JOIN ME THE CALL.
JERRY, I'LL SHARE THAT WITH YOU.
>> I'M EXHAUSTED BY THAT STRUGGLE. I AM INTERESTED IN ST.
ALL RIGHT. I WILL KEEP YOU IN MIND FOR THAT ONE. I ALSO LOOKED UP AND THE ORGANIZATION QUEEN NATURAL SENIOR INC. , I BELIEVE IT'S A SORORITY, IS MAKING DONATIONS TO THE MIDDLEBURGH MARKER.
[Board Member's Comments]
THAT'S ALL I HAVE.NEXT TO BOARD COMMENTS? I'LL START DOWN HERE AND WORK OUR WAY --
>> WELL, THIS IS SOMETHING OFOF INTEREST, I THINK, IS THAT I WAS INVOLVED IN TRYING TO SUPPORT A MUSEUM OF LOCAL SOUTHERN HISTORY IN JACKSONVILLE, BUT THEY HAD A KIND OF A CRISIS OF LEADERSHIP AS SO OFTEN HAPPENS SINCE THE PANDEMIC.
SO I JUST LEARNED A DAY OR TWO AGO THAT THEY HAVE GOTTEN A CONTRACTOR TO BUILD A REPLACEMENT MUSEUM IN CLAY COUNTY WHICH I GUESS IS OUT TOWARD MIDDLEBURGH OR THE WESTERN REGIONS OF ORANGE PARK. I'M NOT CERTAIN WHICH, BUT THAT SHOULD BE INTERESTING BECAUSE IT CAN DISPLAY HISTORIC STORIES. YES.
SO YOU KNOW, IT'S IN THE WORKS, AND I PROMISE THAT WE'RE GIVING A TOUR.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.