Oct 08, 2019 BCC Agenda

OF THAT LOVE TO COME BACK THIS WAY, DOWN THE SPOKE. SO WE WANT

[PRESENTATIONS]

[00:00:03]

MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT THAT IS POURING OUT OF JACKSONVILLE TO HERE THAT CONTINUES TO SUPPORT EMPLOYMENT AND ONE OF OUR LARGE INDUSTRIAL CENTERS. AND IT'S KEPT ON GIVING FOR MULTIPLE YEARS. THAT'S ONE EFI LEAD THAT IS STILL GENERATING MONEY IN THE COUNTY. MULTI-MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

ALMOST HALF THE PROFIT OF WHAT THE AREA GENERATES IS FROM ONE EFI LEAD. AND IT GOES BACK INTO INFRASTRUCTURE SUPPORTING BUILDINGS AND OVERALL MAINTENANCE OF THE AREA.

COMMISSIONER: I DO APPRECIATE YOUR LOOKING -- I THINK EACH ORGANIZATION WE GIVE MONEY TO NEEDS TO JUSTIFY THEIR EXISTENCE EVERY YEAR AND SO I THINK -- AND I'VE LOOKED THROUGH JAX USA AND I'M CONVINCED IT IS A GOOD RETURN ON INVESTMENT SPECIFICALLY WITH THAT. BUT I LIKE YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS OF REVIEWING. I THINK WE'VE DONE THAT WITH OTHER ORGANIZATIONS.

AND WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO DO THAT. IF AN ORGANIZATION, YOU KNOW, JUST EXPECTS TO CONTINUE TO GET PAYMENT AND NEVER JUSTIFY THEIR OWN EXISTENCE, THEN, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE OLD STORY OF THE MOM WHO HAD THE PAN AND SHE CUT THE END OF THE ROAST OFF AND HAVE YOU GUYS HEARD THAT STORY? AND SHE WOULD CUT THE END OF THE ROAST OFF AND HER DAUGHTER ASKED WHY. SHE IS LIKE BECAUSE MY MOM DID. THEN SHE ASKED HER MOM, WHY DID YOU CUT THE END OF ON EH ROAST. SHE SAID WELL MY PAN WAS TOO SMALL. BUT HE JUST CONTINUED THAT TRADITION. EVEN THOUGH HEY HAD GOTTEN A DIFFERENT SIZE PAN. I THINK THAT'S SOMETIMES GOVERNMENT.

WE'VE JUST ALWAYS DONE IT THAT WAY. SO IT'S GOOD TO REVIEW EVERY CONTRACT AND BUDGET ITEM. I KNOW OUR COUNTY MANAGER HAD TO DO WITH TO FIND THE FUNDING AND MAKE IT WORK IF SO.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS? COMMISSIONER: I WOULD SURE LIKE TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD ANOTHER SALESPERSON TO GET OUT AND GET TO SOME OF THESE SHOWS AND STUFF BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE ACTION IS WHERE THE SITE SELECTORS ARE.

I LOOKED AT YOUR LIST OF PROJECTS HERE AND WE'VE GOT A LOT OF HAMBURGER STANDS ON HERE YOU KNOW.

[LAUGHTER] I'D LIKE TO SEE THE REAL HIGH QUALITY STUFF COMING IN. SPEAKER: I AGREE.

COMMISSIONER: I KNOW YOU ARE DOING AS GOOD AS YOU CAN. BUT WHAT ELSE WOULD WE HAVE TO DO TO UP THE GAME IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO KNOW. YOU KNOW, WE'RE GETTING TO THE POINT NOW WITH OUR TAX BASE AND EVERYTHING WE'RE GETTING IN TROUBLE HERE IF WE CAN'T MAKE SOME OF THIS STUFF WORK. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO JUMP IN ONE DIRECTION OR THE OTHER.

SPEAKER: YOU ARE EXACTLY LIGHT. WHAT THE PUBLIC SHOULD KNOW WHEN YOU LOOK AT A COUPLE OF THE PROJECTS THAT WE HAD DID. ORANGE PARK MEDICAL CENTER IS A FOR-PROFIT HOSPITAL.

$126 MILLION RENOVATION. THAT MONEY CIRCULATES HERE. FP & L.

THE DOLLAR AMOUNT 90 OR 100 MILLION, I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT TOTAL BECAUSE IT STARTS IN JANUARY, THAT MONEY AND INVESTMENT WILL STAY HERE. THAT IS ALL TAXABLE. THERE WERE NO INCENTIVES. COMMISSIONER: THERE'S NO JOBS EITHER. SPEAKER: THERE'S SIX JOBS. BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. COMMISSIONER: SOLAR THINGS DON'T NEED A LOT OF EMS CALLS THANKFULLY.

COMMISSIONER: THAT WAS A LOT OF INDUSTRIAL LAND THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE OFF THE TABLE NOW. AND THEY'RE NOT MAKING ANYMORE AS WILL ROGERS SAID. AND THERE'S NO JOBS ASSOCIATED WITH IT. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO DO HERE. I THINK.

SPEAKER: IT IS A LITTLE OF BOTH. BECAUSE WE DEFINITELY NEED A CAPITAL INVESTMENT. WE NEED THE CAPITAL INVESTMENT FOR THAT TAX BASE. IF WE DON'T HAVE THE AD VALOREM AND THERE'S NOT A LOT OF SERVICES WITH THE FP & L PROPERTY THAT REQUIRE POLICE, FIRE AND FOLLOW-UP. COMMISSIONER: WHAT KIND OF TAXING STRUCTURE ARE THEY UNDER THERE? SPEAKER: I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT. COMMISSIONER: THERE WAS A

[00:05:01]

COMMISSIONER: WE WENT THROUGH THAT BEFORE WE APPROVED THAT.

THERE WAS A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL GAIN ESPECIALLY ON EQUIPMENT BECAUSE IT'S AGRICULTURAL. BUT, I MEAN, AT THIS POINT AND TIME IT'S NOT LIKE WE WERE KICKING INDUSTRIAL COMPANIES OFF THE LAND TO PUT THAT ON THERE. SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE'VE GOT TO GO WITH WHAT WE'RE PRESENTED WITH AT SOME POINT.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: WE SHOULD LOOK TO THE FUTURE BUT ALSO HAVE TO BE ROOTED IN REALITY. SPEAKER: TO OUR BIGGEST FOCUS AND WHAT SHOULD BE THE BIGGEST BEAR IN THE ROOM RIGHT NOW IS THAT UNSUNG KEYSTONE HEIGHTS INVESTMENT FROM MHD ROCKLAND AND SPACE FLORIDA. THAT'S A GAME CHANGER DOWN THERE. $24 MILLION FROM THE STATE ENTITY THAT COMES DOWN TO A LOCAL COMPANY THAT'S OPER OPERATING. THE INFRASTRUCTURE WE NEED TO FOCUS ON. WE'RE PUTTING THAT THERE BECAUSE OUR M.O.

REPAIR MAINTENANCE ORGANIZATION FACILITIES WILL FOLLOW THAT.

WE'VE JUST GOT TO BE PREPARED TO CAPTURE THAT MARKET. THAT'S WHY INFRASTRUCTURE WILL BE SO CRITICAL DOWN THERE.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANYTHING ELSE? VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. WE APPRECIATE THE UPDATE. SPEAKER: THANK YOU.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE'RE THROUGH OUR PRESENTATIONS. MOVE AHEAD WITH THE APPROVAL OF OUR MINUTES FROM THE SEPTEMBER 24TH BCC

[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]

[PUBLIC COMMENTS]

COME ON DOWN IF YOU WOULD. YOU HAVE ONE MORE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION AT THE END OF THE MEETING. YOU ARE WELCOME TO SPEAK AT EITHER OR BOTH. GO AHEAD PLEASE.

PUBLIC SPEAKER: WELL, I'M FROM KEYSTONE HEIGHTS. MY NAME IS NANCY SUE CABINO. I LIVE AT 5495 JOSHUA STREET KEYSTONE. THE REASON I AM HERE IS -- ACTUALLY I SHOULD HAVE TALKED TO THAT YOUNG MAN TOO. BUT I'LL GET HIM ONE OTHER DAY. IN KEYSTONE HEIGHTS, WE HAVE BANKING JUST LIKE YOU DO EVERYWHERE ELSE. AND I BANKED HERE. I'VE BANKED IN JACKSONVILLE. AND IN THE LAST 7 YEARS I HAVE LOST ABOUT $40,000 WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM ANY POLICE ENTITY. WHEN I TALK TO THEM, THEY SAY THEY CAN'T HELP US.

WE'RE BEING HACKED BECAUSE OF THESE COMPUTERS. YOU HAVE A BLACK INTERNET. THAT INTERNET, EVERY TIME A BUSINESS GETS ON IT AND PUTS YOUR NAME IN THERE, THEY'RE PUTTING YOUR INFORMATION IN THERE. SO, YOU CAN BE HACKED. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT YOUR CREDIT REPORTING COMPANIES DO THE SAME THING. THEY BUY AND SELL YOUR INFORMATION. LIKE I SAID, I'VE LOST $40,000 IN THE LAST 7 YEARS. NOBODY WILL HELP ME GO AFTER IT. NOT EVEN THE FEDERAL FRAUD DEPARTMENT. BECAUSE I WORKED WITH THEM WHEN T. D. BANK HAD A CASHIER OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL HER -- I HAVE SOME WORDS BUT I WON'T; I'M TOO POLITE FOR THAT. SHE WENT OUT THERE WITH OUR INFORMATION AND SOLD IT ON THE STREETS OF NEW JERSEY. I HAVE BEEN HACKED MORE TIMES THAN CARTER'S GOT LITTLE LIVER PEELS. TWO MONTHS AGO I CHANGED FROM THE BANK I WAS IN AND WENT TO -- AND I'M GOING TELL YOU WHAT BANK I WENT TO. I WENT TO CAPITAL CITY BANK RIGHT THERE IN KEYSTONE. OPENED UP ME AN ACCOUNT. AND TWO DAYS BEFORE THE FIRST OF THE MONTH I GOT HIT FIVE TIMES IN LESS THAN TEN MINUTES. NOW, WHEN I GO INTO THIS BUILDING AND I'M SENT FROM PLACE TO PLACE AND NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT MY TAX DOLLARS IS DOING. I PAY TAXES JUST LIKE

[00:10:01]

CHAIRMAN CELLA: WELL I APPRECIATE YOUR SENTIMENTS BUT IF THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT CAN'T IDENTIFY FRAUD, AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN'T IDENTIFY FRAUD AND YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH THOSE OFFICES, THIS BOARD HAS NO RESPONSIBILITY OR AUTHORITY IN ANY OF THOSE AREAS TO BE ABLE TO HELP YOU.

SPEAKER: ANOTHER ONE! LET ME GIVE SOMEBODY ELSE THE DIME.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: WHAT I SUGGEST IS THAT TERESA HAS A SHEET TO -- PUBLIC SPEAKER: I WANT TO RUN FOR YOUR JOB. I WANT THE PAPERWORK WHERE I CAN DO IT. COMMISSIONER: YOU DON'T LIVE IN HIS DISTANCE SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO RUB AGAINST ME.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: IF YOU'D LIKE TO LEAVE YOUR INFORMATION WITH TERESA, WE'LL BE GLAD TO LOOK INTO IT AND SEE WHO NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO BE IN TOUCH WITH YOU TO HELP AT LEAST LOOK INTO YOUR SITUATION. I CAN'T -- I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU AT THIS POINT AND TIME. IF I DID, I WOULD BE GLAD TO GIVE IT TO YOU.

PUBLIC SPEAKER: I'M GOING TO KEEP YOU ALL ON COURT. I REALLY AM. BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING HURTING YOUR PUBLIC. ESPECIALLY YOUR SENIOR CITIZENS. I MEAN, THERE'S MONTHS I DON'T HAVE $100 TO BUY GROCERIES. ARE YOU GOING TO BUY THEM FOR ME? I DON'T THINK SO! CHAIRMAN CELLA: THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN THREE YEARS THAT I'VE SAT ON THIS BOARD THAT ANYBODY HAS COME TO US WITH ALLEGATIONS WITH BANK FRAUD THAT CAN'T BE SOLVED. SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. WE'LL LOOK INTO IT AND SEE WHO WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO REFER TO HELP YOU WITH YOUR PROBLEM. PUBLIC SPEAKER: I'VE BEEN ALL OVER THIS PLACE TODAY. NO HELP. CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE'LL SEE IF WE CAN'T GET SOME HELP FOR YOU. PUBLIC SPEAKER: I'LL BE WAITING TO SEE. THANK YOU. YOU ALL HAVE A GOOD DAY.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: YOU TOO. MR. AUTO? PUBLIC SPEAKER: JAMES AUTO, SEX TOYS OF CLAY COUNTY FLORIDA. WE STILL GOT THE RAP CONTEST GOING ON THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT LAST TIME. IT'S GOOD TO SEE THE A1 STAYED. WE DON'T NEED TO BE FINANCING THAT FAIR. WE NEED TO FIND A BETTER WAY TO SPEND THAT MONEY. LIKE ON OUR ROADS AND OUR SIDEWALKS OR SOMEWHERE IT CAN BE SPENT. I KNOW YOU HAVE POTS OF MONEY BUT IT'S ALL ONE POT. YOU WORK ON THAT. HERE IS THE SCHOOL BOARD WE WEREN'T ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT OVER THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS WHICH WAS RIDICULOUS. AND WE NEED A HUMAN SHELTER. WE DON'T NEED TO BE BUILDING SHELTERS FOR ANIMALS. WE NEED TO GET THE FOOTBALL OUT OF OUR SCHOOLS. THE PARKLAND SHOOTING, THAT WAS BOTH TARGETED FOOTBALLS CLASSROOMS, SO LET'S LOOK AT THE REALITY OF THAT. AND THE REALITY OF TRYING TO STICK US WITH A $16 MILLION INTEREST PAYMENT.

THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING TO DO. IF WE'RE GOING BUILD ANYMORE SCHOOLS I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT BUT THAT'S WHAT AN IMPACT FEE IS FOR. LET'S START GETTING THAT WAY. NO MORE NEW SCHOOLS UNLESS IT'S GOING TO BE THROUGH THAT ENTITY. YOU KNOW, THERE'S JUST A LOT OF STUFF HERE. WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SPEAK ON 6, 7, 15 AND 8. PEOPLE GETTING WELFARE CHECKS. THEY CAN HELP THE VETERANS ON CALL LINES. THEY CAN HELP WITH THE

[00:15:03]

THE TAXES NEED TO BE SPENT BETTER. IT'S CLEAR THROUGH THE LAST COUPLE MEETINGS THEY'RE NOT BEING SPENT CORRECTLY.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU MR. AUTO. ANYBODY ELSE WITH PUBLIC COMMENT? IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CARD FILLED OUT WE CAN GET YOU A CARD. SEEING NONE, WE'LL MOVE ON TO CONSENT AGENDA.

[CONSENT AGENDA]

[8.  Approval of Interlocal Agreement Regarding Veterans' Suicide Prevention: Northeast Florida Fire Watch Council]

COURTNEY CAN YOU TELL US WHERE WE STAND WITH THE ORDINANCE AS IT IS WRITTEN AND PASSED TO US THROUGH JACKSONVILLE? SPEAKER: SO CURRENTLY THE INNER-LOCAL THAT YOU HAVE WE HAD HOPED WOULD BE IN ITS FINAL FORM BY TODAY. HOWEVER SOME OF THE OTHER COUNTIES HAVE HAD ADDITIONAL REVISIONS TO IT. SO IT SHOULD BE THROUGH THE CYCLE BY NEXT TUESDAY SO WHAT WE PROPOSE TO DO IS ACTUALLY TO BRING YOU BACK THE AGREEMENT FOR FINAL APPROVAL AT THE NEXT FOR OCTOBER 22ND. FOR A TIMING STANDPOINT WHEN THE COUNTIES WOULD LIKE FOR THIS ALL TO BE IN PLACE BY VETERAN'S DAY. AT THE NEXT MEETING WE NEED TO NOT ONLY APPROVE THE AGREEMENT BUT WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE FOR TO YOU DO IS ALSO BE ABLE TO APPOINT YOUR REPRESENTATIVE.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: OBVIOUSLY -- SPEAKER: THE FORM THAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU WILL BE SIMILAR. THEY BELIEVE NON-SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES TO IT. THEY'RE JUST FINE TUNE SOMETHING OF THE PROVISIONS. CHAIRMAN CELLA: OKAY. ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? ISSUES WITH THAT? SO, WE'LL DELAY THAT AND PUSH THAT TO THE OCTOBER 22ND MEETING. ALL RIGHT. WE MOVE TO

[9.  Resolution of the School Board of Clay County, Florida, calling for a referendum election to be held at the General Election on November 3, 2020, to determine if the electors in the School District of Clay County, Florida, approve the levy by the School Board of Clay County of a one-half cent per dollar sales surtax]

SPEAKER: SO WHAT YOU HAVE ON YOUR AGENDA IS THE RESOLUTION THAT WAS PASSED BY THE SCHOOL BOARD AT THEIR SEPTEMBER 5, 2019, MEETING, REQUESTING THAT A REFERENDUM BE PLACED ON THE GENERAL ELECTION FOR NOVEMBER OF 2020 IN CONNECTION WITH THEIR REQUEST FOR A ONE HALF-CENT SALES SURTAX. IN ORDER TO HAVE IT PLACED ON THE BALLOT, WHAT YOU HAVE IS A RESOLUTION FROM THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS THAT WILL BE FORWARDED TO THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS AUTHORIZING THE PLACEMENT ON THE BALLOT. AND, SPECIFICALLY, PROVIDING THAT THE SCHOOL BOARD NEEDS TO PUBLISH NOTICE OF THE REFERENDUM WITHIN THE STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS, WHICH IS ABOUT FIVE WEEKS PRIOR TO THE ELECTION. THEY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE COST FOR THAT.

THERE'S ALSO A PROVISION IN THE RESOLUTION THAT IF THERE ARE ANY COSTS INCURRED IN CONNECTION WITH PUTTING THE REFERENDUM ON THE BALLOT THAT THE COST THAT THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTION MAY HAVE WOULD BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE SCHOOL BOARD AS WELL.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: I KNOW YOU TALKED TO SUPERVISOR CHAINED LIZ. DID HE INDICATE HE HAD ANY IDEAS WHERE THE COSTS COULD BE OCCURRED? SPEAKER: HIS THOUGHT PROCESS ON THE COST WOULD ONLY BE IF THE PLACEMENT ON THE BALLOT REQUIRED IT TO GO TO A NEW PAGE. IF IT CAN BE PLACED ON THE BALLOT WITHIN WHAT HE ALREADY HAS, THEN THERE WOULD NOT BE AN ADDITIONAL

[00:20:02]

COMMISSIONER: WHO IS GOING TO DO THAT? SPEAKER: THE SCHOOL BOARD'S RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT. AND THEY HAVE ALREADY LAID THAT OUT IN THEIR RESOLUTION. AND THEN YOUR RESOLUTION SETS FORTH THAT SAME REQUIREMENT FOR THEM.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER: THIS IS LIKE THE SHALL WORDING IN THE LAW RIGHT? SPEAKER: WELL THIS IS THE SHALL SUBJECT TO THE FACT THAT YOU CAN DETERMINE THE PLACEMENT. THE DATE FOR THE ELECTION.

COMMISSIONER: AND WE ELECTED TO DO IT AT THIS TIME? SPEAKER: BUT BECAUSE YOU HAVE ELECTED TO DO IT BASED ON WHAT THE STATUTE NOW PROVIDES -- SO THE STATUTE NOW PROVIDES THIS HAS TO BE PLACED ON A GENERAL ELECTION AND IT CANNOT BE AT A SPECIAL. COMMISSIONER: SO WE'LL BE ABLE TO VOTE ON THIS AT THE 22 OF OCTOBER MEETING? SPEAKER: NO YOU SHOULD VOTE ON THIS TODAY. IF YOU ARE READY.

AND THEN IT WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF AS FAR AS PLACEMENT ON THE NOVEMBER 2020 GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT.

COMMISSIONER: IS IT TWO SEPARATE VOTES? ONE FOR THE SCHOOL BOARD AND -- SPEAKER: NOPE JUST ONE FOR YOU TO APPROVE THE RESOLUTION THAT I FORWARDED YOU.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I WILL JUST SAY I THINK WE'RE SAVING TAXPAYERS $200,000 NOT HAVING TO DO A SPECIAL ELECTION. SO I KNOW THERE'S OFTEN AND JUSTIFIABLY SO CRITICISM OF GOVERNMENT FOR WASTING MONEY. BUT, IN THIS CASE, WE'RE SAVING MONEY. ABOUT $200,000. AND THIS GIVES THE PUBLIC AMPLE TIME TO BECOME AWARE OF IT AND IT'S ULTIMATELY THEIR DECISION. SO, I THINK ALL IN ALL I SEE NO ISSUE PUTTING THIS ON THE BALLOT AND THAT MIGHT SHOCK SOME OF YOU BUT I'VE SAID ALL ALONG IT JUST NEEDED TO BE ON A GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT AND TRANSPARENT TO THE PUBLIC AND IT NEEDED TO SAVE THAT $200,000 BEING PROPOSED OF TAXPAYER MONEY. I WISH WE COULD HAVE AWARDED THE LEGAL FEES BUT THAT'S ALL IN THE PAST NOW. IF THERE'S NO OTHER OBJECTIONS OR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, I'LL MAKE A MOTION.

COMMISSIONER: SECOND. CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC THAT OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT GOING TO BE WATCHING TODAY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO BECAUSE THANKS TO A -- SPEAKER: I THINK WE'RE NOW UP. CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE'RE ACTUALLY LIVE AGAIN. VERY NICE. WE HAD A BACKHOE TAKE OUT A FIBEROPTIC LINE IN GREEN COVE SPRINGS AND KNOCKED EVERYBODY IN A 15 BLOCK AREA OFF THE INTERNET. BUT I WOULD SAY THAT FOLKS SHOULD TAKE A LOOK AT THE SCHOOL BOARD RESOLUTION. IT LOOKS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN THE LAST TIME. THERE'S QUITE A BIT OF BACK-UP MATERIALS IN THERE. AND I KNOW THAT THEY -- DR. KEMP AND A COUPLE ADMINISTRATORS AND CHAIRMAN STUD ARID IS HERE FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE OUT EDUCATING FOLKS ABOUT WHAT EXACTLY THE USE OF THE FUNDS AND WHERE THEY'RE GOING. AND THERE'S A VERY DETAILED LOOK AT WHEN DR. KEMP AND HIS TEAM HAS PUT TOGETHER. SO, IT IS IN A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FORM THAN IT WAS WHEN WE CAME TO US PREVIOUS. JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I POINTED THAT OUT.

COMMISSIONER: I WAS MOST IMPRESSED WITH DR. KEMP'S PRESENTATION. I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH HIM OFFLINE HERE AND I'LL BE VOTING FOR THIS.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANYTHING ELSE? ALL RIGHT. LET'S CALL A VOTE.

ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES 5-0. AND WE WILL SEND THAT ON TO THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS. ALL RIGHT. MOVING TO NEW BUSINESS. NUMBER 10. I GUESS WE HAVE A

[10.  Historic Preservation Board regarding Fort San Francisco de Pupa]

[00:25:03]

THAT ROAD, THE CAMINO ROYALE, HAD TO BE PROTECTED, OF COURSE.

AND THE FERRY CROSSING ORIGINALLY WAS ABLE TO BE MAINTAINED SIMPLY BY PASSING SOL SOLDIERY AND MISSIONARIES AND ALL THE REST. BUT THOSE DAYS CAME TO AN END WITH THE CLOSE OF THE 17TH CENTURY WHEN THE BRITISH COLONIES BEGAN TO BREATHE DOWN THE NECKS OF THE SPANISH IN FLORIDA AND NORTH OF IT. THEY KEPT GETTING PUSHED DOWN. FINALLY, THERE WERE RAIDS. AND ENSLAVEMENT -- SLAVE MISSIONS WHERE THE INDIANS WHO HAD BEEN PEACEFULLY DOING WHAT THEY WERE TOLD GOT EITHER KILLED OR CARRIED OFF AS SLAVERY -- AS SLAVES INTO THE SOUTHERN COLONIES OF THE BRITISH.

FINALLY, IT CAME TO BE RECOGNIZED BY THE SPANISH THAT THEY HAD TO DO SOMETHING MORE THAN THEY HAD BEEN. AND SO BY THE EARLY 17 HUNDREDS, TWO BLOCK HOUSES WERE BUILT TO PROTECT THE FERRIES AND THE TRAFFIC ON EITHER SIDE OF THE RIVER. THE ONE THAT WAS ON THE WESTERN SIDE WHERE WE NOW SIT AS CLAY COUNTY WAS CHRISTENED SAN FRANCISCO DE-PUPA. APPARENTLY NAMED AFTER THE EARLIER INDIAN SETTLEMENT THAT HAD ONCE BEEN THERE. THAT WAS SUBJECT TO CERTAIN TAX BY THE BRITISH AND THEIR ALLIES AND SO IT WAS IMPROVED UPON AND STRENGTHENED STARTING IN 1738 JUST IN TIME FOR THE MASSIVE INVASION BY GOVERNOR JAMES OGLE THORPE OF GEORGIA AND HIS HUNDREDS OF INDIAN ALLIES WHO HOPED TO TAKE OUT THE SPANISH PRESENCE ENTIRELY BY TAKING ST. AUGUSTINE. BUT HE KNEW THAT HE WANTED TO DO A THOROUGH JOB AND SO HE ATTACKED BOTH PICO LOTA AND POOR OLD SAN FRANCISCO DI PUPA WHICH ONLY HAD A GARRISON NUMBERING 11. IT DID HAVE ARTILLERY AND HOLD OUT FOR A LITTLE WHILE BUT AGAINST HUNDREDS OF INDIANS AND COLONIAL BRITISH TROOPS AND THE ARTILLERY TO BARGAIN, IT DID EVENTUALLY FALL IN 1749 -- 1739 TO THE BRITISH UNDER OGLE THORPE WHO WANTED TO KEEP IT IT WAS SO GOOD. THOUGHT IT WOULD BE HANDY. WHAT STOPPED THAT PROJECT WAS THE FACT THAT HE NEVER WAS ABLE TO FINALLY TAKE ST. AUGUSTINE.

SO, HE DESTROYED THE FORT ON THE WAY OUT. BUT THEY OBSERVED, THE

[00:30:07]

THE POINT HOWEVER WE FOUND. JUST NORTH OF WHERE THE FORT PUPA WHOSE PLATFORM STILL EXISTS SAT, THERE WERE LATER ON SEMINOLE WAR ENCAMPMENTS. AND LATER THAN THAT, THERE WERE ARMY MISSIONS OF TROOPS DURING THE CIVIL WAR WHO CAMPED THERE IN AN EFFORT TO ENCOURAGE MORE SLAVES TO DESERT FROM CONFEDERATE LINES AND SEEK THE PROTECTION OF THE FEDERALS IN JACKSONVILLE. THE ONLY THING THAT FINALLY FINISHED OFF THE ACTIVITIES THERE WAS THE FACT THAT STEAM POWERED BOATS AND RAILROAD TRAFFIC EVENTUALLY CAUSED THE FERRY ARRANGEMENT AND EVERYTHING TO BE BYPASSED AND EVENTUALLY PASS INTO DISTANT MEMORY FOR MOST PEOPLE. BUT THE HISTORIANS DID NOT FORGET. AND THE COUNTY WHO ACQUIRED THE LAND IN THE EARLY PART OF THE 19 HUNDREDS AUTHORIZED PRESIDENT JOHN GOINGAN OF THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA TO CONDUCT ARCHAEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATIONS. ON FORT PUPA. WE SHOULD CALL IT SAN FRANCISCO IN MY OPINION [LAUGHTER] SO HE FOUND ABUNDANT EVIDENCE TO BACK UP THE HISTORY OF THE PLACE AND PUBLISHED A VERY INTERESTING MON AGRAPH ON IT IN THE FLORIDA HISTORICAL QUARTERLY. BUT IN JUNE OF '51, SOMETHING OF INTEREST IS THAT THE TIMES UNION HAD AN ARTICLE ON THIS EXCAVATION PROJECT AND MENTIONED THAT PROFESSOR GOGGAN RECOMMENDED THAT THIS SITE BECOME A STATE PARK AND TEACHING CENTER. AND SHERIFF HALL WENT ON RECORD SAYING HE SUPPORTED THE IDEA. AND THIS IS JUNE OF '51. BUT ALTHOUGH LARGE PARTS OF THOSE ORIGINAL HOLDINGS OF DID EVENTUALLY PASS TO THE ST. JOHNS WATER MANAGEMENT PROJECT, AND THEY ARE PROTECTED AS WILD AREAS, THE REMAINDER OF THE PROPERTY, ABOUT 120 ACRES MORE OR LESS, REMAINED IN THE HANDS OF FOUR SHERIFF HALL'S HEIRS.

THE ONLY THING WE COULD DO IN THE MEANWHILE WHILE ALL THIS WAS JUST SITTING THERE WAS THAT OUR PREDECESSORS OF THE COMMISSION, HISTORIC COMMISSION, IS TO SAY WE'RE THE SAME PEOPLE BUT RENAMED I GUESS IN 2009 -- THEY DID ERECT A STATE MARKER TO COMMEMORATE FORT PUPPO BUT GIVEN THE SITE THEY HAD TO SET UP THE MARKER ON ROUTE 16 WHERE PEOPLE COULD SEE IT. EVEN THOUGH IT'S NEARLY A MILE FROM WHERE THE ACTUAL FORT SAT. HOPEFULLY TIME

[00:35:04]

BUT AS TO MOVING THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, I FOUND OF COURSE THAT I WAS COMPETING WITH THE PASSAGE OF THE BIG STATE BUDGET AND, OF COURSE, THE LEGISLATORS WERE VERY POLITE AND THEIR STAFF BUT THEY WERE RUNNING AROUND DOING ALL THAT. EVEN OUR COUNTY OFFICERS HAD BIGGER ONGOING THINGS THAT THEY HAD TO ATTEND TO THERE. BUT BEFORE I LEFT I LEARNED OF A VERY SERVICEABLE LAW THAT IS A FLORIDA STATUTE THAT HARDLY ANYBODY KNEW ABOUT APPARENTLY. ENTITLED THE EMERGENCY ARC LOGICAL PROPERTY ACQUISITION PROVISION. TITLE 18 CHAPTER 253.027. UNDER WHICH, THE STATE IS AUTHORIZED TO ACQUIRE THREATENED ARCHAEOLOGICAL SITES OF STATEWIDE IMPORTANCE UP TO THE AMOUNT OF $2 MILLION. GREAT. I CHECKED OUT AULT THE DETAILS OF THE REQUIREMENTS AND THIS SITE MATCHED IT ENTIRELY. SO I BEGAN TO WORK ON THE PRELIMINARY DRAFT OF THE APPLICATIONS BUT I LEARNED THAT NOBODY KNEW WHAT TO DO WITH SUCH AN APPLICATION RIGHT NOW BECAUSE FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS THE FLORIDA LEGISLATURE HAD FAILED TO FUND THIS STATUTE. SO, WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. IF THAT LAW COULD BE INVOKED OR REPRODUCED WITH THE HELP OF OUR STATE LEGISLATURE AND OUR GOVERNOR, THAT ACQUISITION WOULD BECOME A STATE PARK STAFFED BY STATE EMPLOYEES, AND THE COUNTY WOULD BE AT NO COST WHATSOEVER FOR THIS ISITION WHICH WOULD BE WONDERFUT BU W TO DO? THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT COME WAOU HIS COUNCIL HAT IGIATURE,K.

TO EARMARK FUNDS FOR LAND ACQUISITION THAT THEY DEEM TO BE OF IMPORTANCE EVEN THOUGH THEY WEREN'T ORIGINALLY IN THE BUDGET EITHER. SO THIS IS -- THESE ARE TWO POSSIBILITIES. AS TO THE PARCELS THEMSELVES? THE ONES THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT ARE THE TWO TEN-ACRE PARCELS WHOSE TOTAL ASKING PRICE TOTALS UNDER $1.5 MILLION, WHICH IS LESS THAN THE $2 MILLION. IF WE WERE PRESSED TO IT, WE WOULD GO FOR THE PARCEL THAT CONTAINS NEARLY ALL OF THE SITE OF FORT PUPO ITSELF WHICH IS CURRENTLY BEING ASKED AT $650,000. IF THAT MADE THE DIFFERENCE IN ACQUIRING IT OR NOT AND PERSUADING THE STATE TO TRY TO MOVE FORWARD, THAT WOULD BE THE THING. BUT GIVEN THE FACT THAT THESE KEY OFFICIALS RIGHT NOW HAVE CONNECTIONS TO THIS COUNTY AND

[00:40:05]

BUT WE CERTAINLY ASK -- OH AND WE, OF COURSE, HAVE COLLECTED RESOLUTIONS FROM OUR LOCAL HISTORIC SOCIETIES AND SO FORTH.

THEY'RE ALL FOR IT, OF COURSE. AND I THINK MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE COUNTY WOULD BE FOR IT. SO, WE'RE JUST ASKING THE COMMISSIONERS WILL COME UP WITH A POSITION THAT THEY SUPPORT THIS SO WE CAN THEN HOPEFULLY GET TRACTION WITH THOSE STATE OFFICIALS. BECAUSE THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. IF WE FAIL, THIS PROPERTY IS GOING TO BE LOST FOR GOOD. IF WE SUCCEED IN IT, THIS WILL BECOME THE MOST IMPORTANT HISTORIC SITE IN THE COUNTY. AND IF IT'S ACQUIRED BY THE STATE, WE CAN DO WHAT HAS BEEN DONE WITH FORT KING, FORT FOSTER AND SOME OTHER SEMINOLE WAR SITES IN OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE WHERE THE PLANS EXIST AS DO THE PLANS FOR FORT PUPO TO REBUILD IT FROM SCRATCH ACCORD TO THE DETAILED PLANS OF THE ENGINEERS THAT BUILT IT. SO, WE'D HAVE JUST THIS GREAT TEACHING SITE THAT WOULD BRING IN VISITORS AND, OF COURSE, BE A SOURCE OF PRIDE TO THE COUNTY. BECAUSE IT REPRESENTS A VERY NEGLECTED BUT HUGELY IMPORTANT PART OF OUR EARLY HISTORY OF THE STATE. SO THAT IN MIND, I HOPE WE'LL SEE YOU GET BEHIND THIS.

THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE DO HAVE A COUPLE.

COMMISSIONER: IS THAT -- GIVEN THE INFORMATION THAT I KNOW AND THAT YOU HAVE PROVIDED, THAT IS I WOULD ASSUME THE OLDEST DOCUMENTED HISTORICAL SITE IN CLAY COUNTY; IS THAT CORRECT? SPEAKER: THE WHAT? COMMISSIONER: THE OLDEST DOCUMENTED HISTORICAL SITE IN THE COUNTY? SPEAKER: AS FAR AS I KNOW, YES IT IS. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, GENERALLY OUR HISTORY PICKS UP WITH, YOU KNOW, THE BRITISH OCCUPATION AND SO FORTH. SO, THAT'S ABOUT AS EARLY AS WE CAN USUALLY TRACE IT. BUT THIS WAS AN ACTUAL SPANISH ESTABLISHMENT THAT WENT -- WELL IT WAS ACTIVE ACTUALLY IN THE 16 HUNDREDS.

COMMISSIONER: AND THE TWO SITES YOU HAVE MENTIONED, ARE THEY ACCESSIBLE, EGRESS -- SPEAKER: THEY ARE. RIGHT NOW YOU TAKE WHAT'S CALLED THE BAIRD ROAD WHICH IS PAVED UP TO A POINT. BUT THEN IT CONTINUES AS AN UNPAID SPUR. AND THAT GOES ACTUALLY UP TO WHERE THE SITE OF FORT PUPO IS.

COMMISSIONER: IS THE LAND TRUST BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS AT ALL? SPEAKER: I APPROACHED THEM AS DID A COUPLE OF OTHER PEOPLE AND THEY ARE INTERESTED. BUT THE PROBLEM IS THEY'VE GOT OTHER THINGS IN THE PIPELINE. AND THEY HAVE TO LINE UP FUNDING AND EVERYTHING. SO, THE CONCERN IS THAT THIS PROPERTY COULD BE SOLD AT ANY TIME BY THESE, YOU KNOW, OWNERS. WE'RE NOT SO CONTINUE CONCERNED ABOUT THE BIGGER PA PARCELS BECAUSE ALL OF IT IS PROBABLY ARCHAEOLOGICALLY SIGNIFICANT. BECAUSE INDIAN REMAINS WERE FOUND ON PART OF THE OTHER THING AS EARLY AS 1894 BY MR. MOORE WHO UNFORTUNATELY BULLDOZED MOST OF THAT INDIAN MOUND. BUT THERE'S EVERY REASON TO THINK THAT IN THAT WIDER AREA THERE ARE BURIALS FROM THE COLONIAL PERIOD AT LEAST, IF NOT INDIAN ONES, AND OTHER THINGS TO BE FOUND. IT'S SIMPLY THAT DR. GOGGAN IN THE 1950S HAD TO CONFINE HIS -- CONCENTRATE HIS EFFORT ON THE SIDE OF THE PLATFORM ITSELF AND ITS STOCK AIDE OR WHAT HAD BEEN THE STO STOCKADE. SO IT'S ALL SIGNIFICANT BUT I'M NOT A POLY ANNIST TO THINK WE CAN SAVE IT ALL UNDER THIS LAW ANYWAY. I WISH WE COULD. BUT CERTAINLY THE CORE TEN ACRES ON WHICH THE FORT STANDS SEEMS COMPLETELY

[00:45:06]

BOTH FROM THE SEMINOLE WAR AND THE SELF WAR. AND THEY -- THE CIVIL WAR. AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PROFESSIONALLY INVESTIGATED AT ALL YET. BECAUSE THE OWNERS IN RECENT YEARS HAVE KIND OF SET, WELL, NO, WE DON'T REALLY THINK WE WANT PEOPLE TO BE LOOKING ANYMORE AT THIS BECAUSE THEY MAY SUSPECT THERE WILL BE DIFFICULTIES TO SELLING IT IF HUMAN REMAINS AND OTHER SUCH, YOU KNOW, INTERVENE. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: IT'S YOUR DISTRICT RIGHT? CHAIRMAN CELLA: YEP.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I HAVEN'T HEARD YOUR THOUGHTS. I THINK IT IS AN AMAZING OPPORTUNITY AND WE THINK WE COULD PASS A RESOLUTION IN SUPPORT AND PUT IT ON OUR LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES AND SEE IF WE CAN GO -- IF THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THE SUPPORT FOR IT AT THE STATE LEVEL AND MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: I HAD JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. ARE BOTH PARCELS WATERFRONT PARCELS? SPEAKER: YES. THOSE TWO ARE.

WELL ACTUALLY ALL OF THE PARCELS HAVE SOME WATERFRONTAGE. BUT THE TWO SMALLER ONES, IRONICALLY ENOUGH, HAVE THE MOST.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: THE REASON I ASK IS BECAUSE -- SPEAKER: 1,100 FEET I THINK EACH.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE HAD THE -- IS IT THE FOREVER FLORIDA FUND.

THE ONE THAT SENATOR BRADLEY USED TO PURCHASE THE PROPERTY IN ORANGE PARK ON DOCTOR'S LAKE. THERE'S OTHER WAYS -- OTHER FUNDS THAT MAY NOT BE ASSOCIATED SPECIFICALLY WITH THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL HISTORICAL ASPECT. BUT CERTAIN THREE WAYS WE CAN DO IT. MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE THAT, FOR THURSDAY, WHICH IS OUR LEGISLATIVE PRIORITY MEETING, IS TO HAVE YOU COME AND PRESENT THE NEED. WE WILL AT LEAST IN MY MIND WE CAN SUPPORT THAT 100% IN TERMS OF THAT EFFORT AND THEN PUT IT BEFORE THE SENATOR IN REGARDS THAT IT IS WATERFRONT. IT IS HISTORICAL. HE'S BEEN ABLE TO MAKE DUE IN TERMS OF MAKING THOSE THINGS HAPPEN FOR THE PARCEL THAT WE ENDED UP PURCHASING STATEWIDE AND WE HAVE IT NOW AND WE'RE GOING TO SOON GIVE IT TO ORANGE PARK. AND USE THOSE SAME FUNDS TO ACCESS IT.

BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY A LOT LESS THAN WHAT HE WAS ABLE TO COBBLE TOGETHER FROM DIFFERENT SOURCES FOR THE PROPERTY AT DOCTOR'S LAKE. SO I THINK IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WORKS, THEN -- COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: AND WHAT IS AMAZING IS SO MANY PEOPLE ARE COMING TO ST. AUGUSTINE. SO, IF WE WERE ABLE TO GET THIS, IT WOULD BE JUST A NATURAL, AN ADDITIONAL FORT ON THAT TRAIL ESSENTIALLY OF SPANISH FORTS THAT WERE PART OF SOME OF THE OLDEST EUROPEAN SETTLEMENTS IN AMERICA, OBVIOUSLY.

COMMISSIONER: IT WAS A LIFELINE. SPEAKER: AS SOON AS THEY STEPPED TO THE WEST BANK THAT WAS THE ARTERY THAT CONNECTED THEM TO THE REST OF FLORIDA. OTHERWISE, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN OUT OF BUSINESS PERHAPS WITHIN A FEW DECADES OF THE SETTLEMENT OF ST. AUGUSTINE BECAUSE THEY NEEDED FOOD AND LABOR AND MILITARY, YOU KNOW, INTELLIGENCE.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: THE OTHER THING WE'VE GOT TO -- AND I'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK -- WE'VE GOT THE FIRST COAST EXPRESSWAY GOING IN THERE WITH THE NEW SHANDS BRIDGE. I'M NOT SURE WHERE IT IS IN RELATIONSHIP TO THAT PROPERTY BUT, YOU KNOW, ONCE THE NEW BRIDGE IS OPEN AND THE STATE COMES BACK, THEY'RE GOING TO CHOP THE CENTER OUT OF THE OLD BRIDGE. AND IT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO BE A FISHING PIER. BOTTOM LINE IS -- AND MAYBE THAT GOES RIGHT ALONG WITH A PARK AND HISTORICAL AREA. I MEAN, THERE'S NUMBER F THINGS THAT MIGHT WORK THERE. SO MY SUGGESTION IS, JERRY, IF YOURSELF OR SOMEBODY ELSE THAT COULD PRESENT THAT STORY TO THE COMMISSIONERS IN A CONCISE WAY ON THURSDAY I'M HEARING THAT WE'VE GOT A -- COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I'M GOING HIKE IT TONIGHT AFTER THE MEETING AND CHECK IT OUT.

SPEAKER: CAN YOU TELL US WHAT TIME ON THURSDAY? CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE START AT 2:30 P.M.

SPEAKER: OH. OKAY. I'M SURE WE'D BE WILLING TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE ANOTHER WHACK AT IT. I WOULD SAY WITH RESPECT TO OTHER ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS IS THAT THE INVESTIGATION SO FAR THAT WE MADE RAISE SOME CONCERNS THAT IF CERTAIN ACQUISITION ENTITIES, YOU KNOW, GET IT, WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO DEVELOP IT AS A PARK.

BECAUSE SOME OF THESE, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT THE THING TO BE FOREVER WILD AND NOT DEVELOPED. SO, THERE IS THAT CONCERN.

COMMISSIONER: I'M NOT GOING TO DROP ANY NAMES. I LOOKED INTO THIS A COUPLE MONTHS AGO AND I WAS TOLD IT WAS EARMARKED TO BE CONDOS. NO UNCERTAIN TERMS. SO I THINK TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE

[00:50:04]

SPEAKER: WELL THANKS. IT'S AN UPHILL STRUGGLE AT THIS POINT.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: IF AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE DOWN THE ROAD IF YOU ARE ABLE TO REBUILD IT FROM OLD BLUEPRINTS, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY WHAT FORT MOSES I THINK THERE'S AN EFFORT TO REBUILD THAT AND THERE'S A NUMBER OF FORTS THROUGHOUT NORTHEAST FLORIDA THEY'RE LOOKING AT DOING THAT WITH.

SPEAKER: THAT'S RIGHT. NOT ONLY THE SPANISH ENGINEER BUT OGLE THORPE'S ENGINEER DID THEIR OWN DRAWINGS OF IT. FIRST THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD KEEP IT. SO WE HAVE BOTH OF THEM AND THEY BOTH MATCH UP VERY WELL. WE CHAIRMAN CELLA: WELL I DON'T G.- THINK WE HAVE TIME TO ACTUALLY DO ANY KIND OF FORMAL RESOLUTION PRIOR TO THURSDAY AND THE LEGISLATIVE HEARING BUT WE CERTAINLY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY, IF I HEAR A MOTION, TO SUPPORT THE EFFORT TO MOVE FORWARD. COMMISSIONER: SO MOVED.

COMMISSIONER: SECOND. CHAIRMAN CELLA: BE GLAD TO ENTERTAIN THAT AND THEN WE CAN STAND BEHIND IT AT LEAST WITH A VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE.

COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: YOU'LL NEED THREE COPIES I'M HAPPY TO GIVE YOU MINE. CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE ALSO HAVE TO MAKE SURE HE GETS ON THE AGENDA IN A POSITION WHERE IT COUNTS. I THINK WE CAN MANAGE THAT. COMMISSIONER HENDRY: MR. CHAIRMAN I HAVE ONE EXTRA QUESTION HERE. AS FAR AS OUR SUPPORT, IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO ADD THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC TO OUR LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES WHICH IS NOT ON THERE NOW? CHAIRMAN CELLA: MY THOUGHT WOULD BE TO SORT OF ALLUDE TO IT BUT THEN HAND IT OFF SINCE JERRY CAB DO A MUCH BETTER JOB IN TERMS OF DESCRIBING THE HISTORIC ASPECT OF THAT.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WE CAN PUT IT IN AS A PLACE HOLDER.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS THAT COMING UP UNDER THE COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT. SO WE CAN HANDLE THAT AT THAT TIME.

COMMISSIONER HENDRY: ONE FURTHER QUESTION. JERRY, COURTNEY, CHAPTER 253 YOU SAY THERE'S NO FUNDS FOR THIS.

SPEAKER: THAT'S A BIG SURPRISE BECAUSE YOU THINK THERE WOULD BE. COMMISSIONER HENDRY: AND IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE I READ THIS CHAPTER. I'LL DO IT LATER. BUT IS THERE A MECHANISM INVOLVED TO PUT IT ON HOLD AND PROTECT IT UNTIL SUCH TIME A DECISION CAN BE MADE? SPEAKER: I DON'T SEE THAT. NOW THE STATUTE -- CHAIRMAN CELLA: JERRY, IF YOU CAN JUST BACK UP ON THE MICROPHONE SO WE CAN HEAR YOU ON CAMERA.

SPEAKER: THE STATUTE, I GUESS A FEW OF YOU HAVE READ THE DETAILS. ACTUALLY IT PROVIDES FOR EXPEDITING THE PROCESS. BUT IT STILL DEPENDS ON THE IDEA THEY HAVE THE FUNDS TO -- I DIDN'T -- WELL SOME PEOPLE WITH MORE, YOU KNOW, TRAINING IN SUCH MATTERS MIGHT BE ABLE TO TEASE OUT THAT IDEA. BUT I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE -- I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE STATUTE THAT WOULD SAY FLAG ON THE PLAY, NOBODY CAN MOVE. USUALLY THE PROPERTY OWNER'S RIGHTS ARE HIS RIGHTS UNTIL, YOU KNOW, ACQUISITION IS UNDERWAY. COMMISSIONER: BOL MIGHT HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME ZONING IT NOW. COMMISSIONER HENDRY: SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING IN THE STATUTE. SPEAKER: I KNOW FROM ARCHAEOLOGISTS THEY SAID WELL YOU CAN INVOKE ALL THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL SURVEY AND EVERYTHING THAT HAS TO BE MADE SINCE WE KNOW IT'S OF SOME SIGNIFICANCE ALREADY FROM PREVIOUS SURVEYS. BUT THAT IS NOT ALWAYS GOING TO REALLY STOP IT. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: WELL LET'S MOVE FORWARD WITH TRYING TO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY THEN WE CAN GO CRAZY AND CHAIN OURSELVES TO TREES LATER [LAUGHTER] START WITH JUST ASKING FIRST.

SPEAKER: I LIKE THE SPIRIT [LAUGHTER] OF THAT PROPOSAL. CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU, JERRY. SPEAKER: THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO LEARN FROM SOMEBODY WHILE WE'RE STILL HERE HOW THE THURSDAY THING COULD BE ARRANGED FOR US TO PARTICIPATE IN.

COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: COURTNEY COULD YOU HELP HIM WITH THAT?

[00:55:03]

[11.  Clay County Health Department FY2019/2020 Operation Agreement]

CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER DISCUSSION OR QUESTIONS? ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY 88. ANY OPPOSED? THE MOTION CARRIES 5-0.

WE THANK YOU FOLKS FOR YOUR HELP. NUMBER 12. DISCUSSION

[12.  Discussion regarding a County Ordinance providing for protective measures and registration requirements related to Sexual Predators and Sexual Offenders]

SPEAKER: THIS IS AN ITEM THAT COMMISSIONER ROLLINS BROUGHT TO THE BOARD AND REQUESTED AN ORDINANCE BE PREPARED IN CONNECTION WITH EXTENDING THE BUFFER REQUIREMENT FROM WHAT THE STATE STATUTE REQUIRES FROM 1,500 FEET TO EITHER 2,000 -- COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: IT IS A THOUSAND RIGHT NOW.

SPEAKER: UP TO WHAT 2,000 IS WHAT YOU PROPOSED? COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: YEAH. SPEAKER: IN CONNECTION WITH THAT, THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE HEARD THAT THE BOARD WAS INTERESTED IN MOVING FORWARD AND THEY CAME AND MET WITH US AND WE HAVE HERE DETECTIVE DUGGER WHO CAME AND MET AND THEY HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO INCLUDE WITHIN THE ORDINANCE. AND WHAT WE THOUGHT WOULD BE BEST WOULD BE TO PRESENT THE DIFFERENT ITEMS TO YOU, SEE WHAT THE BOARD WAS INTERESTED IN OR WILLING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH, AND THEN WE CAN PREPARE AN ORDINANCE THAT ENCOMPASSES BOTH THE RESTRICTION AS WELL AS THE OTHER. I CAN GO THROUGH THEM TO THE EXTENT YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS THE DETECTIVE CAN PROBABLY HELP ME WITH THEM.

SO THE FIRST ONE IS IN CONNECTION WITH THE BUFFER OR THE RESTRICTION IS AN ADDITION TO THAT TO INCLUDE A PROVISION FOR LOITERING PROVISION THAT IN CONNECTION WITH BUS STOPS OR DAYCARE CENTERS WHERE YOU HAVE KIDS THAT ARE THERE IN A PARTICULAR PERIOD OF TIME IS NOT TO TOTALLY RESTRICT THOSE AREAS BUT IN CONNECTION WITH A TIMEFRAME, FOR INSTANCE WHEN THE BUS WILL BE DROPPING OFF STUDENTS AT THE BUS STOP, THEN THOSE THAT ARE REGISTERED ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE WITHIN THAT AREA. WE CALL IT THE SAFETY ZONE. THAT WAS ONE REQUEST. THE SECOND WAS THE STATE STATUTE ONLY REQUIRES CERTAIN SEXUAL OFFENDERS AND SEXUAL PREDATORS TO ENCOMPASS THIS ZONE. WHAT THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE IS INTERESTED IN IS IF YOU HAVE TO REGISTER WITH THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE AS A SEXUAL PREDATOR OR A SEXUAL OFFENDER, THEN YOU SHOULD FALL UNDER THESE RESTRICTIONS. SO A LOT OF TIMES THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE WILL RECEIVE A CALL AND WANT TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHY A CERTAIN PERSON IS ALLOWED TO LIVE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S BECAUSE EITHER THEY DON'T FALL UNDER THE CERTAIN RESTRICTION IN THE STATE STATUTE OR THEIR OFFENSE OCCURRED PRIOR TO A CERTAIN DATE. SUCH AS 2004 I BELIEVE IS IN THE STATUTE. EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE TO REGISTER, THEY DON'T FALL WITHIN THE STATUTE. SO, THEY'VE SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED FOR US TO INCLUDE IN OUR

[01:00:01]

SO YOU AREN'T ATTRACTING KIDS TO YOUR HOME. SO THAT'S INCLUDED.

AND THEN LASTLY WILL BE, THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A REGISTRATION FEE. SO, IF YOU ARE A REGISTERED SEXUAL -- A SEXUAL OFFENDER OR PREDATOR YOU HAVE TO WITHIN 48 HOURS OF MOVING TO THIS COUNTY YOU HAVE TO REGISTER WITH THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. I MEAN, THAT'S REQUIRED NO MATTER WHAT COUNTY. IN CONNECTION WITH THAT, YOU REGISTER INITIALLY, AND THEY WOULD LIKE A FEE FOR THAT. IF YOU MODEL IT AFTER THE NASSAU COUNTY, THAT INITIAL FEE WOULD BE $50 WHICH IS WHAT NASSAU COUNTY DOES. THEN YOU, DEPENDING ON WHETHER YOU ARE AN OFFENDER OR PREDATOR, YOU EITHER HAVE TO COME BACK AND CHECK IN WITH THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE ONCE A YEAR OR THREE OTHER TIMES. DURING THAT TIME, AGAIN BASED ON THE NASSAU COUNTY ORDINANCE U WOULD HAVE TO PAY YOUR $25 REPORTING FEE. NOW IF YOU MOVE AT ANY TIME DURING -- WHILE YOU ARE REGISTERED. IF YOU GO TO LIVE TWO BLOCKS DOWN YOU HAVE TO COME IN WITHIN 48 HOURS OF MOVING AND RE-REGISTER YOUR ADDRESS. FOR THAT, WHAT THEY CALL "CHANGES" CHANGES OF YOUR LOCATION, A FEE OF $10. SO THE PURPOSE OF HAVING THE REGISTRATION FEE IS BECAUSE OF ALL THE ADMINISTRATIVE WORK THAT HAS TO GO INTO THE REGISTRATION, THE RE-REGISTRATION AND JUST CHANGING. OUR DETECTIVE WHO IS HERE, HE OVERSEES THAT ENTIRE DIVISION AND HANDLES THE REGISTRATION AND THE REQUIREMENTS. IF THEY DON'T SHOW UP TO RE-REGISTER WITHIN THE TIMEFRAME THEY ARE, THEN THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE SENDS OUT A WARRANT AND THEY ARE IMMEDIATELY BROUGHT IN AND HAVE TO COMPLY WITH ALL THE PAPERWORK REQUIREMENTS. SO I BELIEVE THOSE ARE IN ADDITION TO THE PEFR BUFFER THOSE ARE THE FOUR SPECIFIC CATEGORIES THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE IS LOOKING AT.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: JUST ON THE BUFFER ITSELF. THE NEWS CALLED A WHILE BACK, CALLED ME ABOUT A SITUATION IN ORANGE PARK THAT WAS IN THE TOWNS OF ORANGE PARK CITY LIMITS. SO, REFERRED IT TO THEIR COUNCIL. BUT THE QUESTION WAS BROUGHT, YOU KNOW, IS THERE ANYTHING THE COUNTY CAN DO TO STRENGTHEN THESE ORDINANCES. SO, I SAID LET ME LOOK INTO THAT. SO I DID AND WE CAN. WE CAN GO FURTHER THAN STATE LAW. AND A THOUSAND FEET IS REALLY NOT THAT FAR IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT. I MEAN, IT IS A COUPLE OF FOOTBALL FIELDS. IN SOME CASES A SEXUAL PREDATOR COULD LITERALLY -- IF IT IS A CLEAR LINE OF SIGHT, ALMOST SEE A SCHOOL. AND SO THE COURTS HAVE RULED, LIKE IN FORT LAUDERDALE THEY MADE IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO LIVE ANYWHERE IN FORT LAUDERDALE. AND COURTS HAVE RULED THAT'S NOT LEGAL. YOU CAN'T MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR A SEXUAL PREDATOR OR SEXUAL OFFENDER TO LIVE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY. BUT YOU CAN INCREASE THE BUFFER ZONES AS LONG AS THERE IS A PHYSICAL ABILITY FOR THEM TO LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY SOMEWHERE. SO WHAT THIS WOULD DO IS JUST PROTECT -- ADD ADDITIONAL PROTECTION TO OUR SCHOOLS. AND THEY'RE BASED ON THE 2,000 FOOT LIMIT. YEAH IT DOES LIMIT WHERE THEY CAN LIVE BUT THERE ARE PLACES WITHIN PLAY COUNTY THEY STILL CAN LIVE. AND IT JUST PUSHES THE BUFFER ZONE OUT FURTHER FROM PARKS AND SCHOOLS. SO THAT'S THE REASON FOR PROPOSING IT AND THE ADDITIONAL THINGS I'M IN FAVOR OF ALL OF THOSE. I DON'T KNOW HOW THE REST OF THE COMMISSION FEELS. BUT I KNOW IN TALKING TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY SHE SAID LET'S MAKE SURE WE GET THE REST OF THE COMMISSION'S INPUT ON THIS BEFORE I DRAFT AN ORDINANCE AND THEN START STRIKING IT. SO, THAT'S KIND OF THE INTENT OF GETTING A CONCEPTUAL FRAMEWORK BEFORE SHE DRAFTS THE OFFICIAL ORDINANCE.

COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I AM IN AGREEMENT WITH ALL THOSE AND

[01:05:02]

ST. JOHNS DOESN'T HAVE A FEE YET BUT THEY'RE LOOKING AT IT. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT BAKER AND OTHERS. CHAIRMAN CELLA: MY THOUGHT WOULD BE IF THERE ARE OTHER COUNTIES CHARGEING THAT AND WE'RE NOT THEN WE'RE GOING ACTUALLY ATTRACT THEM SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE FEES OBVIOUSLY. SPEAKER: IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: THAT'S WHAT I WOULD THINK WOULD HAPPEN.

DETECTIVE, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS OF THOSE FOUR THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO -- SPEAKER: SHE EXPLAINED THEM GREAT. PRETTY CUT AND DRY. COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: HOW MANY INDIVIDUALS ARE WE LOOKING AT CURRENTLY IN CLAY COUNTY THAT WOULD BE AFFECTED? SPEAKER: RIGHT NOW I'M TRACKING A LITTLE OVER 400. NOW THAT'S SEX OFFENDERS, SEX PREDATORS AND CAREER OFFENDERS WHICH WOULDN'T FALL UNDER ANY OF THIS. BUT IT'S RIGHT AROUND 400 FOR THE COUNTY.

COMMIS COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IS THAT A HIGHER NUMBER THAN THE PAST? SPEAKER: I STARTED AT THE FIRST OF THE YEAR AND IT'S GONE UP A LITTLE. WE GET EBB AND FLOW.

WITH OTHER ONES CHARGING A FEE AND US NOT I HAD A PREDATOR WHO IS MOVING INTO THE COUNTY WHO IS LOOKING NOW FROM JACKSONVILLE BECAUSE HE IS LEAVING JACKSONVILLE.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: IN THE SAFETY ZONES I HAD A FATHER CALL AND TALK TO ME ABOUT SOMEBODY BASICALLY MAKING THREATENING REMARKS AND JUST INAPPROPRIATE REMARKS I GUESS, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE THREATENING, AROUND A BUS STOP. AND IT'S HEART BREAKING HEARING THAT. THIS STRENGTH NESS THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE ABILITY TO GO AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT IMMEDIATELY. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: COURTNEY I GUESS THIS MAY BE A QUESTION FOR THE AUDITOR BUT IF WE'RE COLLECTING THOSE FEES ARE WE ABLE TO EARMARK THOSE TO GO BACK AND ASSIST IN THAT SPECIFIC THING OR IS THAT COVERED UNDER THE SHERIFF'S BUDGET? SPEAKER: I THINK IT WOULD BE AUTHORIZEDED FOR YOU TO COLLECT THEM DIRECTLY.

SPEAKER: I BELIEVE SO. THEY HAVE AN INVOICE AND EVERYTHING. THE

INVOICE THAT THEY FILL OUT. >> SPEAKER: SO IT WOULD BE AUTHORIZED THEM TO COLLECT THAT.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IS THERE ANY DATA TO SHOW MAKING PEOPLE LIVE FURTHER FROM A SCHOOL DOES ANY GOOD? COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I'VE READ INTO THAT AND IT'S HARD TO MEASURE THAT. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU MEASURE THAT? DOES SEXUAL VIOLENCE GO DOWN AS A RESULT OF INCREASED ZONES? I MEAN, IF WE THINK THAT IT IS A GOOD IDEA FOR THEM TO BE A THOUSAND FEET AWAY, THEN WHY NOT FURTHER? BUT WE CAN'T GO TOO MUCH FURTHER OR THEY LEGALLY WON'T HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE. SO I JUST ASSUME NOT ALLOWING THEM TO LIVE IN CLAY COUNTY, BUT SINCE WE HAVE TO LEGALLY, THEN THIS IS THE CLOSEST WE CAN GO WITHOUT BECOMING A PROBLEM WITH LEGALITY OF HAVING TWO WHERE TO LIVE. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF HAVING A LOT OF SEXUAL PREDATORS MOVING IN, DON'T GET ME WRONG. BUT I IMAGINE THERE WAS A SIMILAR DEBATE WHEN THEY WERE SETTING UP LEPPER COLONIES. PART OF THIS JUST DOESN'T FEEL GOOD YOU KNOW. THE OTHER QUESTION, IF YOU GET LABELED AS ONE OF THESE GUYS, CAN YOU EVER GET IT OFF YOUR RECORD? SPEAKER: YES THERE'S A SPILL DOWN STATUTE. AFTER 20, 25 YEARS, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE WERE CONVICTED OF, THEY CAN PETITION THE COURT AND GET IT REMOVED. LIKE THE ROMEO AND JULIETTE LAW AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I KNOW SEX OFFENDERS IS DIFFERENT.

SOMETIMES THERE CAN BE CASES, OUTLIERS THAT SEEM TO BE NOT AS EGREGIOUS. BUT THE SEXUAL PREDATORS, THOSE ARE CASES WHERE THEY'RE JUST HORRIFIC. THEY'RE JUST I DON'T HAVE MUCH SYMPATHY FOR THEM. I THINK THERE'S GOD FORGIVES THEM BUT HERE ON EARTH I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WANT THEM AROUND OUR CHILDREN IN ANY CAPACITY. SPEAKER: MAYBE LONGER JAIL TERMS WOULD BE A BETTER SOLUTION. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I CAN'T AFFECT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. BUT THIS WE CAN. SO, DO WHAT YOU CAN WHERE YOU ARE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: GOOD QUESTION. I DID RESEARCH AND IT'S HARD TO STUDY. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WHAT HAPPENS IF SOMEBODY IS LIVING NEAR A SCHOOL AND WE CHANGE THIS -- SPEAKER: THAT WOULD BE GRANDFATHERED IN. WE COULDN'T MAKE THEM MOVE BUT IF THE DECIDED TO MOVE ON THEIR OWN THEN IT WOULD APPLY TO THEM, THE 2,000 FOOT RULE IF THAT'S WHAT

[01:10:01]

[13.  BFC Partnership, Limited Proposal to acquire County land located near intersection of Old Jennings Road and Blanding Boulevard]

>> YES PLEASE. SPEAKER: BASICALLY IN CONNECTION WITH WE HAVE PONDS THAT ARE LOCATED NEAR THE CORNER OF OLD JENNINGS ROAD AND BLANDING BOULEVARD. IN CONNECTION WITH THOSE PONDS, WHICH WE HAVE DUE TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION IN CONNECTION WITH THE WIDENING OF BLANDING, THEY PROVIDED US THOSE PONDS ALONG WITH THEIR POND. WE ARE UNDER AN OBLIGATION TO MAINTAIN THOSE PONDS. MR. SMALLWOOD WOULD LIKE TO ACQUIRE THAT PROPERTY WITH THOSE PONDS AND ASSUME THE MAINTENANCE OF THOSE PONDS IN CONNECTION WITH THE DEAL THAT HE AND ANOTHER PROPERTY OWNER, THE OLD JENNINGS BARBARA CUE, A PROPOSED DEAL THAT HEY HAVE TO TO SELL ALL OF THAT PROPERTY ALONG BLANDING TO A DEVELOPER. SO THE PROPOSAL IS REFLECTING THAT TRANSACTION IN CONNECTION WITH THAT IF YOU WISH TO MOVE FORWARD, WE WOULD NEED APPROVAL TO USE THE PROCEDURE UNDER FLORIDA STATUTES TO SELL THE PROPERTY TO AN ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER. AND WE WOULD GO THROUGH THAT STATUTORY PROCESS. NOW, WE'VE WORKED REALLY HARD TO INCLUDE DIFFERENT PROVISIONS AND PROTECTIONS OF THE COUNTY IN THE LETTER, THE NOTICE OF PROPOSAL.

UP UNTIL EVEN THIS MORNING WE WERE WORKING ON IT WITH OUR TECHNOLOGY CHALLENGES TODAY. WE DON'T HAVE A FINAL VERSION.

WE'VE STILL MADE SOME REVISIONS. WE CAN GO THROUGH THOSE REVISIONS BUT I THINK OVERALL, IF THE CONCEPT IS SOMETHING THE BOARD IS INTERESTED IN, OUR REVISIONS WILL FALL INTO PLACE.

COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: THAT WOULD COME BEFORE US WHEN? SPEAKER: MR. SMALLWOOD COULD EXPLAIN HIS TIMEFRAME BUT HE WANTS YOU TO MOVE FORWARD ON THIS TODAY BECAUSE HE HAS SOME TIME CONSTRAINTS IN CONNECTION WITH HIS PURCHASE AND SALE AGREEMENT WITH THE DEVELOPER THAT HE HAS TO ACCOMPLISH THIS WITHIN -- I'VE HEARD 90 DAYS OR 120 DAYS, BUT HE HAS TO HAVE IT ACCOMPLISHED. SO, WORKING WITH HIS COUNSEL WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THE TIMEFRAME HE WOULD NEED TO BE ABLE TO ACQUIRE THE PROPERTY BY YOUR DECEMBER MEETING. SINCE YOU ONLY HAVE ONE MEETING IN DECEMBER. COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND. SO WE HAVE THIS PROPOSAL HERE BUT YOU ARE GOING TO DO A SEPARATE ONE? OR ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE THIS AND TWEAK IT? SPEAKER: WE'VE DONE A LOT OF TWEAKS TO IT. AND THE FRAMEWORK REALLY IS IN THAT PROVISION.

THE TWEAKS ARE TO TIGHTEN IT UP. IN THE BIG PICTURE IT'S TO MAKE SURE THAT IN CONNECTION, IF OUR EXISTING PONDS ARE MOVED, THAT THE COUNTY IS RELIEVED FROM ANY OBLIGATION TO MAINTAIN THE PONDS ONCE THEY'RE MOVED. BUT THAT WHOEVER, WHETHER IT'S MR. SMALLWOOD OR THE DEVELOPER, IF THEY'RE MOVED, THAT THEY HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR OUR NEEDS ON THAT WHEN THEY MOVE THEM. AND THAT THEY HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THE D.O.T. BECAUSE WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE THAT AGREEMENT WITH THE D.O.T. THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THEM. SO, IF THEY'RE MOVED, THEY HAVE TO GET APPROVAL FROM THE D.O.T. AND GET US RELEASED FROM THAT OBLIGATION.

[01:15:02]

CHAIRMAN CELLA: MR. SMALLWOOD? SPEAKER: KEN SMALLWOOD I LIVE IN ORANGE PARK. I AM THE GENERAL PARTNER FOR BFC PARTNERSHIP. SHE EXPLAINED IT VERY WELL. WE HAVE A -- AS YOU KNOW, OR MAY KNOW, WE BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY IN 2001. AND WE'VE BEEN STEADILY TRYING TO MARKET THE PROPERTY FOR A LONG TIME. IN THE INTERIM, FEMA CAME ALONG AND REDID ALL OF THEIR FLOOD ZONE LINES. SO, WHEN WE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY WE WERE MOSTLY UPLANDS. WE'RE STILL UPLANDS BUT WE'RE IN FEMA FLOOD ZONE UPLANDS. SO THIS PROPERTY IS GOING TO TAKE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF ENGINEERING AND STUDYING AND PERMITTING TO BE ABLE TO USE IT. KNOWING HOW THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS PERFORMS, OUR CONTRACT WITH THIS GUY SAYS THAT HE HAS A COUPLE OF YEARS TO GET THIS THING PERMITTED. AND WE'VE GOT TO GO THROUGH THE D.O.T. WE'VE GOT TO GO THROUGH THE ST. JOHNS WATER DISTRICT. EVERYBODY HAS GOT A FINGER INTO THIS PIE. AND WE'VE GOT TO ANSWER ALL OF THOSE QUESTIONS. AND SO WE'VE GOT A BUYER. I THOUGHT HE WAS HERE BUT I DON'T SEE HIM NOW -- WHO HAS -- HE'S GOT AN UNDERSTANDING WITH A NATIONAL GROCERY CHAIN TO MAKE THIS A GROCERY ANCHORED CORNER. AND, AS YOU KNOW ABOUT THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS IN THE COMMERCIAL END OF IT, LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION RULES. AND OLD JENNINGS AND BLANDING BOULEVARD AND HENLEY ROAD, THAT'S A WONDERFUL LOCATION FOR ALL KINDS OF GOOD USES. SO, RIGHT NOW THE TAXES THAT WE'RE PAYING TO THE COUNTY ARE MINUSCULE. BECAUSE IT'S VACANT LAND AND IT IS IN A FLOOD ZONE.

IF WE ARE ABLE TO DEVELOP THIS ENTIRE SITE -- BY THE WAY, THE BARBECUE GUYS TO THE WEST OF US, TO THE SOUTH OF US, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THE MAP, THEY'VE AGREED WITH THIS SAME BUYER.

SO, WE'RE ALL COOPERATING TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS THING HAPPENS. SO, IF THE COUNTY DOES DECIDE TO TRANSFER THE DEED TO US, THEN THE TEN-DAY PERIOD OR WHATEVER NOTICE THAT THE COUNTY HAS TO PUT OUT BY THE STATUTE, IT WILL MOVE FORWARD AND THEN WE WILL BE ABLE TO EXECUTE THE DEAL ACCORDING TO THE STATUTES. BUT WE CAN TAKE SOME FEMA FLOOD ZONE LAND AND WE CAN GIVE YOU $30 MILLION PROJECT AND THE AD VALOREM TAXES THAT THAT BRINGS EVERY YEAR. THERE WILL BE SIGNIFICANT JOBS THAT WILL COME ALONG WITH THIS. WE KNOW RETAIL AND THOSE KIND OF JOBS THAT COME WITH EVERY COMMERCIAL PROJECT. BUT THE MORE GOOD COMMERCIAL PROJECTS YOU HAVE, THE BETTER YOUR AD VALOREM TAKE IS. AND YOU WILL GET SALES TAXES. AND I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A GAS STATION THERE WILL BE SOME GAS TAXES. SO THIS OVERALL IS A GOOD PROJECT. AND WE REALLY ENCOURAGE YOUR SUPPORT. I'M READY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I THINK IN GENERAL I'M IN FAVOR OF TURNING NON-PERFORMING LAND INTO PERFORMING LAND. THAT'S CERTAINLY THE CASE. I GUESS MY ONLY QUESTION WOULD BE I THINK A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WE HAD A SITUATION WHERE IT WAS VERY SIMILAR AND WE WERE GOING TO DO SOMETHING WITH I THINK IT WAS A RACE TRACK OR SOMETHING. WERE YOU INVOLVED IN THAT TOO OR WAS THAT SOMETHING DIFFERENT? SPEAKER: I WASN'T INVOLVED WITH THAT. THE BARBECUE GUY AND THE RACE TRACK GUY CAME ALONG AND THEY DECIDED THEY WERE GOING TO JUST COME IN AND BULLDOZE AND TAKE OVER EVERYTHING. AND WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY SAY SO. SO THEY FINALLY, AT THE URGING OF STEPHANIE, THEY CAME BACK AND ADVISED US WHAT THEIR INTENTS WERE. SO WE HAD A CROSS-EASEMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE BARBECUE LAND AND OUR LAND TO ALLOW US TO GET OUR TRAFFIC OVER TO OLD JENNINGS AND THEIR TRAFFIC OVER TO BLANDING. SO IT WAS A NICE, BEAUTIFUL RELATIONSHIP. BUT THE WAY THEY WERE GOING TO DEVELOP IT, WE WERE GETTING NONE OF THAT. SO WE OBJECTED. SO, EVENTUALLY, AS THINGS EVOLVED, THE RACE TRACK GUYS WENT AWAY. THEY WANT TO BULLDOZE, GO TO ANOTHER COUNTY.

BUT WE'RE STILL GOING TO GET A NICE GAS STATION HERE.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA:. THE ONLY OTHER QUESTION. I DID TALK TO ONE OF YOUR PARTNERS. I JUST PUT IT RIGHT OUT THERE. ONE OF THE THINGS HE TALKED ABOUT WAS, YOU KNOW -- BECAUSE THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE DID ON 220 WITH BRENT WHITE AND HIS RV BOAT STORAGE. WE GAVE HIM SOME PROPERTY ON THE FAR -- WELL THE WESTERN END OF ARMSTRONG PARK AND HE GAVE US SOME PROPERTY ON THE EAST SIDE SO IT SORT OF ALL SEEMED TO WORK. HERE WE'RE GIVING YOU PROPERTY. AND EVEN THOUGH IT'S A POND, I THINK YOU ACTUALLY SOLD THAT BEFORE I THINK TO D.O.T. SO, YOU ARE

[01:20:04]

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: HE DID SAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CONVERSATION MAYBE HE IS GETTING AHEAD OF HIMSELF. I SAID I LIKE THE THINKING [LAUGHTER] SPEAKER: COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO ME AND JIM HAD MEETINGS WITH JOSH AND J.J. AND STEPHANIE APPROACHED ME A COUPLE YEARS AGO AND SAID WE NEED A LIBRARY SITE TO SERVE BOTH OAK LEAF AND MIDDLEBURGH. IT CAN'T BE IN EITHER PLACE BECAUSE THAT WILL MAKE THE OTHER ONE NOT WANT TO COME. SO, WE'RE ABOUT HALFWAY BETWEEN OAK LEAF AND MIDDLEBURGH. SO I PRESENTED STEPHANIE WITH A SITE AND NOTHING HAS COME OF THAT. WELL WHEN I MET WITH J.J. AND JOSH AND WE WERE TALKING THE NEW ATLANTIS DRIVE THAT WE WERE TRYING TO GET BUILT BUT FOR THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS WE WOULD BE UNDER CONSTRUCTION. SO I KEEP HOPING WE'RE GOING TO GET THAT DONE HERE SOON. BUT THE CONCEPT WAS THAT THE COUNTY NEEDS A BUILT -- WE DON'T NEED A TWO BE BUILT. WE NEED TO BUILD SOMETHING THAT WE CAN SHOW PERSPECTIVE TENANTS AND USERS THAT WILL BRING JOBS TO THE COUNTY. WE'RE STALKING ABOUT STEM KIND OF JOBS BECAUSE WE'RE SO CLOSE TO CECIL FIELD. SO THE CONCEPT WAS THAT MAYBE SAYS A AND -- AND THIS IS PREMATURE BECAUSE WE'VE GONE NOWHERE WITH THIS EXCEPT THE BRUSH CONVERSATION. WHAT IF WE SET ASIDE FIVE OR SIX ACRES ON THE NEW ATLANTIS DRIVE AND CAME ONE A MULTI-USE BUILDING. SOMETHING THAT BE WITH A LIBRARY, A STEM EMPLOYMENT CENTER FOR PEOPLE TO COME IN AND BE ENTREPRENEURIAL AND LEARN HOW TO BUILD THEIR BUSINESS, AND JUST HAVE A BUILT.

SO THE WAY TO DO THAT IS TO KEEP THE COSTS LOW. WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT DOING WAS GETTING AN APPRAISAL OF THE VALUE OF YOUR PROPERTY AND WE THROW THE PROPERTY INTO THE POT AND NOT GET ANY CASH NOW. BUT WE KNOW WHAT THE VALUE WAS. GET THE CCDA MAYBE TO COME IN AND FINANCE PART OF IT. THEY GOT A BUNCH OF CASH SITTING THERE IDLE DOING NOTHING. THEY'VE GOT BARGAINING AUTHORITY TO DO CERTAIN THINGS. SO, WE'RE TRYING TO GET CREATIVE TO GIVE THE COUNTY A REAL GOOD PROJECT ON ATLANTIS DRIVE ONCE IT'S BUILT. THAT WILL SOLVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT PROBLEMS. THAT'S WHAT THE CONVERSATION WAS ALL ABOUT. SO, JUST TO MAKE SURE IT'S NOT LINKED. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WHERE IS MY FOUR OR FIVE ACRES. SPEAKER: IT WILL BE FRONTAGE. IT WON'T BE CORNER. THAT IS OUR AMBITION. WHY WOULD I COME TO THE COUNTY WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT THIS EARLY. SO, HE IS GOING TO GET A BLOCK OF COAL IN HIS CHRISTMAS STOCKING THIS YEAR. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: HE IS GOING TO GET A GOOD GIFT FROM ME BECAUSE HE'S GOTTEN ME SOME FIVE ACRES TO EXCHANGE FOR THIS POT. THAT'S A GOOD THING. ANYBODY ELSE HALF ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: SOUNDS LIKE YOU FIGURED IT OUT. COMMISSIONER: I SUPPORT YOUR CONCEPT. CHAIRMAN CELLA: JUST REMIND US ALL THIS IS PUBLIC RECORD. SO, WE'RE HOLDING YOU TO THAT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? DO WE HAVE A MOTION.

COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: IN CONNECTION WITH -- SPEAKER: IN CONNECTION WITH THAT MR. SMALLWOOD IS LOOKING FOR YOU TO SIGN THE NOTICE OF INTENT. HOWEVER, WE WILL NEED TO MASSAGE FURTHER EDITS TO THAT. AS PART OF THE MOTION IF YOU WILE JUST AUTHORIZE US TO FINALIZE THAT AND HAVE THE COMMISSIONER EXECUTE IT. SORRY, THE CHAIRMAN. CHAIRMAN CELLA: THE CHAIR'S GOT TO SIGN YOU GOT TO BE EXTRA SPECIAL WITH THAT FIVE ACRES [LAUGHTER] SPEAKER: IT WILL COME WITH A BOW WRAPPED AROUND IT. CHAIRMAN CELLA: PERFECT.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: HE'LL GIVE YOU THE WETLANDS [LAUGHTER] CHAIRMAN CELLA: OKAY. SO, DO WE HAVE AN ADJUSTED MOTION. ALL RIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. THE MOTION CARRIES 5-0. WE'LL GET THAT SIGNED.

SPEAKER: MR. CHAIRMAN, LADY AND GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE MOVE TO ACCEPTANCE OF MAINTENANCE OF THE

[14.  Acceptance of Maintenance of the Foxmeadow 3B Subdivision]

[01:25:01]

WE FOUND OUT THE ORIGINAL PLANNING DIDN'T HAVE SOME OF THE DRAINAGE WE NEEDED. SO, IN THE PROCESS OF THIS ACCEPTANCE WE'VE GOT THE DRAINAGE EASEMENT DOWN TO A POND AND AROUND THE POND.

THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BACK IN 1990.

COMMISSIONER: ARE WE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING THAT? SPEAKER: IT'S GOT THE SAME LANGUAGE THAT ALL OF OUR PLATS WOULD HAVE THAT SAYS IF WE NEED TO WE'LL GO IN THERE. BUT NO WE DON'T HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF MAINTENANCE. COMMIXED

>> ARE YOU ASKING FOR THE ROADS OR THE PONDS? COMMISSIONER: THE PONDS SPEAKER: THE PONDS WE DO NOT COMMISSIONER: WE'VE GOT A MAGIC DECODER RICK TO FIGURE OUT WHICH ONES ARE US AND THEM AND ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF. THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING. SPEAKER: I'VE GOT THIS ONE FIGURED OUT. THERE WILL BE ANOTHER 65 LOTS NEXT TO IT THAT WILL BE DEVELOPED SHORTLY. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: ONE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD IS CONFUSING LIKE THAT TOO. I DON'T KNOW WHO OWNS WHAT AND WHERE. IT'S CONFUSING THE WAY THESE DEVELOPERS DO THESE. COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THAT ONE? SPEAKER: NO MA'AM. SPEAKER: JUST FOR CLARIFICATION.

REMEMBER IN CONNECTION WITH ACCEPTANCE FOR MAINTENANCE HOW YOU CAN UP WITH YOUR LINE OF DIVISION AS TO WHAT YOU WOULD ACCEPT VERSUS POTENTIALLY NOT ACCEPT WITHOUT AN MSBU THIS ONE IS PRIOR TO THAT LINE. IT WAS PLATTED MANY, MANY YEARS AGO.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR DALE? COMMISSIONER BOLLA: THE 64 NEW ONES.

SPEAKER: THAT'S GOING TO MEET OUR STANDARDS WHEN THEY COME IN.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: THOSE HAVEN'T BEEN PLATTED YET? SPEAKER: EVERYTHING HAS BEEN PLATTED OUT. UNFORTUNATELY THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PLATTED WITHOUT A PERFORMANCE BOND THAT SAYS YOU WILL PLAT AND BUILD AT THE TIME. SO WE HAVE 64 PLATTED LOTS THEY CAN, I GUESS, TECHNICALLY SELL THEM OFF ONE AT A TIME NOW. THEY HAVE NOT. AND I KNOW THEY BEEN LOOKING AT A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT DEVELOPERS TO COME IN AND DEVELOP IT. AND THOSE 64 LOTS THERE'S ALSO A FAIRLY LONG ACCESS ROAD ON THE BACK SIDE THAT TIES INTO THE REST OF FOX MEADOWS TO PROVIDE BETTER TRAFFIC CIRCULATION. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: THAT'S THE BACK ROAD WITH THE WIRE ACROSS IT? SPEAKER: IT IS. RIGHT NEXT TO OUR -- COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WHEN THOSE DEVELOP, DO WE HAVE THE OPTION TO GIVE THEM THE MAINTENANCE ON IT? SPEAKER: THIS WILL BE FOR UNIT 8A. THE 64, 65 LOTS.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: WE ALWAYS HAVE THE OPTION DON'T WE? SPEAKER: YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE OPTION, YOU KNOW, BUT YOU DID COME UP WITH THAT SORT OF DIVIDING LINE. BUT HAVE THEY BEEN THROUGH DRC? SPEAKER: THEY HAVE NOT.

SPEAKER: TO YOU HAVE THE OPTION. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I MEAN, I DON'T MIND LETTING 7 UNITS GET OUT BUT NOT 64. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S MY AREA. THERE'S BEEN SOME DISCUSSION AT THE HOA MEETINGS WHETHER THAT WILL BE A PRIVATE ROAD AND HOW IT WILL BE HANDLED. I KNOW THERE'S A LOT AT PLAY HERE. BUT I JUST AS SOON SEE THAT FALL UNDER OUR NEW POLICY.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: TECHNICALLY IT WOULD.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: THAT'S WHY I JUST ASKED. WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THESE PARTICULAR ONES WON'T AFFECT OUR ABILITY TO DO THAT LATER. WE'RE NOT SETTING A PRECEDENT HERE. THEY'RE GOING TO COME IN AND SAY YOU GAVE US SIX NOW YOU GOT TO GIVE US THE 64? SPEAKER: THEY WILL PROBABLY COME IN AND ASK THAT. BUT, I MEAN, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO [LAUGHTER] COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WE CAN PREVAIL WITH THIS IN YOUR OPINION? SPEAKER: OH YES. CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR DALE? ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? THE MOTION DOES CARRY 5-0 SPEAKER: THAT INCLUDES THE TWO DRAINAGE EASEMENTS THAT WE NEED ALSO? BECAUSE THEY'RE SEPARATE DOCUMENTS. SPEAKER: THEY HAVE ALREADY EXECUTED THEM AND HAVE THEM READY FOR YOU JUST TO -- THEY HAVE THEM READY TO RECORD BASED ON YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF THEM.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I DO HAVE A REAL QUICK -- WHEN YOU GUYS INSPECT THOSE TO TAKE THEM IN YOU DO A THOROUGH, DETAILED, NUANCED INSPECTION OF EVERYTHING SO WE'RE NOT GETTING SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO FAIL IN TEN DAYS? SPEAKER: NO SIR. COMMISSIONER: ROLE THERE'S A LEAKY -- COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: THERE'S A LEAKY PIPE LET'S PAVE OVER IT. SPEAKER: THIS WAS JUST INSPECTED ON MONDAY AND PASSED FINAL INSPECTION EXCEPT FOR ONE SMALL

[01:30:02]

CHAIRMAN CELLA: SO DO WE HAVE TO DO ANYTHING WITH THE EASEMENT OR DID YOU -- SPEAKER: WAS IT INCLUDED IN THE MOTION? CHAIRMAN CELLA: NO.

COMMISSIONER: I INCLUDED IT IN THE MOTION.

COMMISSIONER: I INCLUDED IT IN THE SECOND [LAUGHTER] CHAIRMAN CELLA: I'LL TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT. ALL RIGHT. NUMBER 15. THE APPROVAL OF IMPACT FEE

[15.  Approval of Impact Fee Credit Agreement for Road Impace Fees for Armstrong Community Development District]

COMMISSIONER: AND THAT CREDIT IS BASED ON THE NEW IMPACT FEE LEVEL? SPEAKER: YES. WELL THE CREDIT IS BASED ON THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY. BUT THE CREDIT WILL BE USED AT THE NEW IMPACT FEE LEVEL.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: SO WHAT HAPPENED -- SORRY. IF WE VOTE THIS DOWN, WHY DOES IT EVEN COME TO US IF IT'S IN LDR AND JUST KIND OF A -- SPEAKER: WELL THE AMOUNT OF THE CREDIT IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT FOR EACH AGREEMENT.

AND OUR ORDINANCE SAYS THAT THE CREDIT AGREEMENTS WILL BE APPROVED BY THE BOARD. WE COULD ALTER OUR IMPACT FEED ORDINANCE TO CHANGE THE PROCEDURE. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I WAS JUST CURIOUS. SPEAKER: THEY'VE MET THE REQUIREMENTS -- COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: LIKE IF WE VOTE AGAINST IT, WHAT HAPPENS. SPEAKER: YEAH, I HEAR YOU. I HEAR YOU. BECAUSE WE COME IN AND SAY THEY'VE MET THE REQUIREMENTS AND THERE'S REALLY NOT A REASON TO TURN THEM DOWN EXCEPT THAT IT JUST MEMORIALIZES THEIR ENTITLEMENT.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'LL MOVE FOR APPROVAL.

COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I'LL SECOND IT.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? SPEAKER: I WOULD JUST LIKE TO POINT OUT THE VERSION THAT IS INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET IS -- THERE WAS A CHANGE WHERE IT REFERENCED DRI IN CONNECTION WITH THAT AGREEMENT, IT ACTUALLY I NOT RELATED TO THE DRI. IT WILL BE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT TO THE SOUTH OF IT. SO WE MADE THAT CHANGE IN THAT AGREEMENT.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: THIS IS ONE OF THE CRITICAL ROADS IN MY AREA. THESE ARE MAJOR EVENTUALLY MAJOR THOROUGHFARES.

SPEAKER: THE REST OF TYNES TO THE NORTH WHICH LIES WITHIN THE DRI IS THE SUBJECT OF A SEPARATE AGREEMENT AND THAT WILL BE COMING TO YOU SHORTLY. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IS THIS OPEN NOW? I CAN'T REMEMBER. SPEAKER: DALE SAYS NOT YET.

[01:35:04]

THEY'RE GOING TO DO? >> WE'RE STILL WAITING ON THE FINAL INSPECTION. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WE'RE

GETTING CLOSE? >> REAL CLOSE.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: DID THEY DO IT FOR 7 MILLION?

>> THEY TELL ME TIT COST THEM MORE THAN 7 MILLION.

SPEAKER: IT DID COST THEM MORE. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH. WHEN SOUGHT CREDIT FOR THAT OVERAGE WE SAID NO YOU SAID YOU COULD DO IT FOR CHEAPER. SO, THEY'RE NOT GETTING CREDIT FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OVERAGE. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: GOOD JOB HOLDING FIRM. CHAIRMAN CELLA: SO AS WE LOOK AT THE AGREEMENT THE ACTUAL EXCESS CREDIT IS 103,000.

SPEAKER: AFTER THEIR APF DEDUCTION.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: OKAY. WE GOT A MOTION. WE HAVE A SECOND. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES 5-0. THANK YOU, FRAN. COUNTY MANAGER?

[COUNTY MANAGER/CLERK OF THE BOARD]

>> MR. CHAIRMAN, COMMISSIONERS, IN YOUR PACKETS IS A FOUR PAGE MEMO REGARDING THE LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES THAT WILL COME UP ON THURSDAY'S MEETING. THE MEMORANDUM IS BROKEN UP INTO A PROJECT LIST. THERE ARE NINE TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS THAT ARE LISTED UNDER PUBLIC SAFETY THERE ARE FOUR PROJECTS THAT ARE LISTED WHICH INCLUDE THE CONSOLIDATED COMMUNICATIONS FACILITY, FIRE STATION 20, FIRE RESCUE TRAINING TOWER AND BURN BUILDING, AND A TRAINING FACILITY AND GUN RANGE. THERE ARE ADDITIONAL PROJECTS THAT ARE LISTED RANGING FROM FAIRGROUNDS TO ANIMAL SERVICES FACILITY TO MARKET, BOARDWALK AND EDUCATION CENTER, A HEALTH DEPARTMENT BUILDING. I HAVE CAMP BLANDING MUSEUM WHICH IT WILL ADD A LINE FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION TO ADD THE FORT SAN FRANCISCO DE-PUPA. AND THE LIBRARY ALSO. YES, SIR, YOU GOT IT. AND THE OTHER ONES ARE ADULT DAYCARE. AND THERE'S OTHER ONES THAT GO DOWN FROM THERE. JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T LOSE SIGHT ON THOSE THINGS. LIKE THE SWEAT PROGRAM, KEYSTONE HEIGHTS LAKE PROJECT AND OTHERS. THE FINAL SECTION IS POLICY MATTERS WHERE WE ASK, YOU KNOW, THE LEGISLATIVE BODY TO STREAMLINE THE FEMA REIMBURSEMENT PROCESS AND MANY OTHERS THAT ARE LISTED ON THERE SUCH AS RECYCLING, RESPONSIBILITY AND SO FORTH. THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT I HAVE COME UP WITH AND COMPILED THOSE TOGETHER. KAREN THOMAS DID A INTO IS JOB FOR ME AND THE STAFF TO PUT THOSE TOGETHER AND I'M JUST STANDING BY TO ADD ADDITIONAL PROJECTS OR ANY QUESTIONS. COMMISSIONER: MR. CHAIRMAN I'M THINKING ABOUT THE PROPRIETY OF PUTTING DE-PUPA ON HERE. YOUR THOUGHTS? CHAIRMAN CELLA: WELL THAT'S I SUGGESTED THAT WE HANDLE IT SEPARATELY ONLY DOES IT DOESN'T GET LOST. I MEAN, THIS IS -- LIKE BEING AN EIGHT-YEAR-OLD AND PUTTING OUR CHRISTMAS WISH LIST IN IT THIS COVERS A WIDE RANGE.

I JUST THOUGHT IT WOULD GET LOST AND IF IT'S GOT POTENTIAL FOR SOME KIND OF FUNDS THAT ARE ALREADY AVAILABLE, IT MIGHT BE BETTER TO HANDLE THAT SEPARATELY WITH JUST A LINE IN HERE THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, 100% SUPPORT EFFORTS IN THAT DIRECTION AND LET THEM SORT OF DICTATE THAT SO THAT THE STATE SENATOR AND THE STATE REPRESENTATIVE BOTH CHAIRMAN WAN PUT THEIR HEADS TOGETHER AND DISCUSS THAT OPENLY.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I DON'T SEE ANY HARM IN DOING BOTH.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE PUT A LINE BUT -- COMMISSIONER BOLLA: PUT IT IN HERE AND DO A PRESENTATION.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: EVEN THOUGH OUR PRIORITIES ARE LONG THEY'RE SPECIFIC IN TERMS OF THERE'S A CLEAR ASK. WHAT IT DOES IS GIVE OUR REPRESENTATION FLEXIBILITY AS THE SESSION MOVES AND THINGS CHANGE OR MONEYS ARE AVAILABLE IN CERTAIN AREAS THEY CAN MOVE QUICKLY. CHAIRMAN CELLA: RIGHT.

BUT IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE ORANGE PARK PROPERTY CAME UP, THAT CAME UP IN THE MIDDLE -- LONG AFTER THE SESSION WAS OVER AND BEFORE THE SESSION STARTED. SO I REALLY DIDN'T WANT IT TO GET LOST. MY FEELING IS IF THERE'S MONEYS IN THOSE FUNDS THAT COULD BE MADE AVAILABLE I THINK THAT WE COULD GET THOSE FUNDS BEFORE THE SESSION EVEN STARTS. THAT WAS THE PREMISE.

BUT WE CAN -- COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WE DON'T EXPECT TO GET ALL OF THIS. BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, IF OPPORTUNITY STRIKES AND THEY GOT MONEY LEFT OVER THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO THROW SOME OUR WAY. CHAIRMAN CELLA: I THINK ALSO, YOU KNOW, YOU NEVER KNOW WHERE THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO HAVE EMPHASIS IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE PUBLIC SAFETY THIS TIME AROUND. IF THAT'S THE CASE THEN WE'VE GOT AN ITEM THAT SUITS THAT THEN MAYBE WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO --

[01:40:04]

WE ALREADY HAVE THE PROPERTY. SO, IF WE CAN GET SOME MONEY TO BUILD -- AND I WOULD LOOK TOWARD -- AND I THINK WHAT STEPHANIE ENDED UP WITH WAS WE STARTED WITH THE LIBRARY THEN WE STARTED LOOKING AT CONSOLIDATING THE TAX COLLECTOR'S BUILDING AT BEAR RUN AND ALSO DOING SOMETHING WITH THE POLICE SUB-S SUB-STATION. WHICH, BY THE TIME WE DO ALL THAT, WE'VE GOT A VERY BIG PROJECT. BUT I THINK IF WE COULD SCALE THIS THING SO THAT WE START WITH ONE AND THEN NEXT YEAR ASK FOR THE ADDITION, THAT KIND OF THING.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: MR. SMALLWOOD COMES IN AND ASKS FOR MORE PONDS WE MIGHT BE ABLE -- COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WE'RE HELPING HIM OUT TOO. I MEAN, THIS WOULD BE AN ANCHOR PROPERTY IN HIS COMPLEX WHICH WOULD BE SOMETHING HE COULD REALLY POINT TO. A POLICE STATION RIGHT IN YOUR DEVELOPMENT, THAT'S A GOOD THING. CHAIRMAN CELLA: IT MAY BE ABLE TO BECOME SORT OF A GOVERNMENT COMPLEX. BECAUSE I KNOW THE CHIEF HAS TALKED TO US ABOUT ASKING FOR LAND FOR FIRE STATIONS AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH EACH OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS WE'RE GOING TO NEED FIRE STATIONS IN PROXIMITY. SO, MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ASK ASK FOR. BUT LET'S GET STARTED WITH -- COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT SO HUGE IT'S STUPID. IF WE CAN START SMALL.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: START WITH THE IDEA THAT WE'LL EXPAND ON THIS SITE. ALL RIGHT. ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? YOU DO NOTICE THAT WE DID MOVE HIGHWAY 16 UP TO THE TOP OF OUR TRANSPORTATION ROADWAYS. THOSE OF YOU ON THE TPO, WE HOPE THAT YOU CONTINUE TO PUT THAT GOOD PRESSURE ON. SPEAKER: AND THAT'S A CONSOLIDATED EFFORT TO MOVE THAT UP IN THE LONG-RANGE PLAN AND IT CAME THROUGH ALSO. COMMISSIONER: THE BRIDGE IS FUNDED. THE BRIDGE IS FUNDED. CHAIRMAN CELLA: ALL RIGHT.

COUNTY MANAGER, DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER ITEM ON THE AGENDA? SPEAKER: A REQUEST TO HAVE DALE COME UP AND BRIEF US ON CHIP SEAL. I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT IN THE PAST. HE SHOULD HAVE PASSED OUT, YOU ALL SHOULD HAVE A BRIEF IN FRONT OF YOU.

SPEAKER: THEY WILL HALF A BRIEF. A VERY BRIEF BRIEF. WHAT YOU'VE GOT IS BASICALLY FOUR PAGES ON CHIP SEAL. THE FIRST ONE IS STATE OF WASHINGTON. IT'S SORT OF THEIR GUIDELINES. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THAT THE CHIP WAS TO PROTECT EXISTING ASPHALT PAVEMENT. AS A LOWER COST ALTERNATIVE TO, YOU KNOW, PUTTING A FLOOR RESURFACING ON IT. THE PROBLEM WITH AS ASPHALT GETS OLDER YOU GET CRACKS, RAVELS, YOU START GETTING WATER PENETRATION. SO A CHIP SEAL PROVIDES THAT SORT OF SEALANT.

YOU PUT DOWN A LAYER OF LIQUID ASPHALT WITH A LOT OF WATER IN THAT FIRST LAYER YOU PUT YOUR ROCK DOWN, YOU ROLL YOUR ROCK, THEN YOU PUT ANOTHER LAYER OF LIQUID ASPHALT. THAT'S REALLY WHAT A CHIP SEAL IS. IT WILL SEAL A ROADWAY. ACCORDING TO, YOU KNOW, THEIR NUMBERS, IT'S ABOUT 15 TO 20% OF THE COST OF AN ASPHALT OVERLAY. AND THE NEXT PAGE IS A DOCUMENT FROM THE ASPHALT INSTITUTE. AND THE THING THAT -- AT THE BOTTOM OF THE VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH THERE'S A SENTENCE THAT SAYS "THEY'RE NOT APPROPRIATE FOR ROTTED POTHOLE OR SEVERELY DISTRESSED SURFACES." SO IF YOU'VE GOT IRREGULARITIES, CHIP SEAL IS SO THIN, YOU ARE STILL GOING TO HAVE THE BUMPS AND IRREGULARITIES. SOME PLACES RECOMMEND YOU PUT YOUR CHIP SEAL DOWN SOMEWHERE AROUND FOUR TO SIX YEARS WHILE YOUR ASPHALT IS STILL NICE AND SMOOTH AND IT DOESN'T HAVE BUT JUST A FEW CRACKS IN IT. AND VERY LAST, YOU KNOW, PHOTOGRAPH IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, IT TELLS YOU THAT IF YOU DO IT WHILE THE PAVEMENT IS STILL IN GOOD CONDITION, IT GIVES YOU AN EXTRA SIX TO EIGHT

[01:45:03]

THERE IS NO STRUCTURAL NUMBER THAT YOU PUT WHEN YOU PUT CHIP SEAL ON A ROADWAY. ROADWAYS ARE DESIGNED BY STRUCTURAL NUMBERS AND THE CHIP SEAL IS BASICALLY MORE THAN A CODATING. IT PROVIDS A GOOD CONSTRICTION FORCE. I TRIED TO FIND SOMEBODY WHO DID CHIP SEAL ON DIRT ROADS. AND THE ONLY THING THAT I COULD FIND ON THE INTERNET AND IT WAS A COMMENT THAT SAID IT'S GOOD TO START WITH BUT THEN IT'S TERRIBLE BECAUSE THERE'S NO STRUCTURAL STRENGTH. IT'S MY UNDERS UNDERSTANDING ST. JOHNS COUNTY THEY GO IN AND BUILD THEIR LIME ROCK BASE UP, THEY PUT CHIP SEAL DOWN AND IMMEDIATELY PUT OUT A RESURFACING LIST. WHICH I REALLY DON'T THINK IS AN OPTION FOR US BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MANY ROADS THAT ARE FALLING APART ON OUR EXISTING RESURFACING LIST THAT, YOU KNOW, PUTTING ROADS THAT WERE FAIRLY SMOOTH AND FAIRLY GOOD CONDITION IT WOULD PUT THEM AT THE BACK END OF IT. BY THE TIME THEY WORKED THEIR WAY UP WE WOULD BE ADDING A LITTLE MORE MISERY TO OUR LIST. AND THEN WHAT I WANTED TO SHOW YOU IS ON THE LAST PAGE IS A CHART. AND IT SHOWS YOU THAT THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT TREATMENTS THAT YOU CAN PUT ON A NEW ASPHALT ROADWAY TO EXTEND THE LIFE. AND, YOU KNOW, WITH THIS THEY SHOW AN AVERAGE OF FOUR TO SIX YEARS. AND THIS WAS 1999 DATA. WHEN I BRING IT UP TO THE CURRENT DATA OR CURRENT COSTS, YOU KNOW, THE CHIP SEAL WOULD BE ABOUT A BUCK 80 PER SQUARE YARD WHEREAS ASPHALT IS ABOUT $7.35. IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, BY THE TIME YOU CHIP SEAL IT, THREE OR FOUR YEARS, THAT'S BASICALLY THE SAME COST AS THE FULL ASPHALT OVERLAY. ANY QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: SO THE BOTTOM LINE, DO YOU RECOMMEND CHIP SEAL? SPEAKER: I DO NOT. THIS IS THE DATA. BECAUSE IF YOU CHIP SEAL IT, FOUR OR FIVE YEARS FROM NOW YOU ARE GOING TO CHIP SEAL IT AGAIN. FOUR OR FIVE YEARS FROM THERE YOU ARE GOING TO CHIP SEAL IT AGAIN. IF WE HAD BROUGHT OUR ROADS -- AND IF YOU REMEMBER THE LIST, A LOT OF THE ROADS WE ARE STILL WORKING ON ARE IN THE 30 RANGE. IF WE WERE UP INTO THAT 50 AND 60 RANGE, I MIGHT CHANGE MY MIND BECAUSE THAT WOULD TRULY BUY US SOME-TIME. BUT RIGHT NOW WE'VE GOT ENOUGH ROADS IN THE 30 AND 40PCI CONDITION THAT WE HAVE TO LAY AN OVERLAY.

COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: OKAY. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: WHAT ABOUT WHEN WE DO NEW ROAD CONSTRUCTION, THE MILLINGS? I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE US PUT IN THE CONTRACT SO WE REPAVE THE ROAD AND PUT IN THE CONTRACT THAT WE AS THE COUNTY GET THE MILLINGS. SPEAKER: WE DO CURRENTLY. I'VE GOT A MOUNTAIN OF MILLINGS. BUT TO PUT OUT A ROADWAY SURFACE, WE'RE TALKING FOUR TO SIX INCHES THICK DEPENDING UPON THE TRAFFIC. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I GOT SOME ROADS THAT WE CAN START PUTTING THEM ON THEN.

SPEAKER: WELL THE DISCUSSION WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE IS THAT TRULY PAVING? AND DO WE START A SPECIAL PROGRAM FOR MILLINGS? OR DO WE INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, USE MILLINGS FOR THE ROADS WE'RE TRYING TO PAVE RIGHT NOW? COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: YOU RECYCLE THE MILLING LIZ NOW? SPEAKER: WE DO. A PROBLEM WITH THE MILLINGS ROAD, YOU BASICALLY HAVE TO PREPARE THE BASE SO IT'S NOT JUST PUTTING THE MILLINGS DOWN. YOU PUT IT DOWN AND YOU ROLL IT. WHEN YOU START HAVING A PROBLEM WITH MILLINGS, THE REPAIR IS, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT MORE COSTLY TIME WISE THAN IT IS LIME ROCK ROAD OR EVEN A DIRT ROAD. BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GO IN AND MIX IT UP, ADD NEW MILLINGS AND BRING OUT ALL THE EQUIPMENT AGAIN. CHAIRMAN CELLA: I THINK WHAT YOU ARE HEARING DALE IS WHETHER IT'S COMMISSION ROLLINS AND MILLINGS OR MY INSISTENCE THAT WE LOOK INTO CHIP SEALING IS WE'RE LOOKING FOR AN OUTSIDE THE BOX KIND OF WAY TO BE ABLE TO ATTACK PROBLEMS WHERE THERE'S DIRT ROADS THAT WE'RE NEVER GOING TO GET TO TO PAVE BUT THEY NEED SOME KIND OF ASSISTANCE SO PEOPLE AREN'T GETTING STUCK IN EITHER RUTS OR HOLES OR SUGAR SAND OR SOMETHING TO THAT AFFECT. AND, YOU KNOW, BRADFORD COUNTY AND NASSAU COUNTY BOTH HAVE ROADS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY DIRT ROADS THAT THEY'VE USED CHIP SEAL ON AND THEY'RE TESTING THOSE AS A PILOT PROGRAM TO SEE WHETHER THEY WORK OR DON'T WORK.

SO, WHETHER IT'S CHIP SEAL OR MILLINGS OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT MAYBE YOU COME ACROSS, I THINK WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THIS TO MAYBE MOVE THAT TO THE NEXT LEVEL.

WHATEVER THAT MAY BE. AND WE'RE NOT EXPERTS ON THAT SITUATION.

[01:50:02]

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: THE CHALLENGE I HAVE OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS, I REALIZE THAT WE HAVE 300 MILES OF DIRT ROADS AND THAT WE CAN'T JUST MAGICALLY PAVE THOSE. AND IT'S EXPENSIVE TO PAVE ROADS. BUT BETWEEN PAVING A DIRT ROAD AND WE CAN BARELY GET TO OUR HOUSE SOMETIMES AND A PAVED ROAD THAT'S SMOOTH, THERE HAS TO BE SOME WAY WE CAN IMPROVE IT WITHOUT IT BEING ALL THE WAY OVER HERE BUT STILL NOT WHERE IT IS RIGHT NOW. AND THAT'S THE CHALLENGE. AND WHAT'S A CHALLENGE IS PEOPLE PAVE THEIR PRIVATE DRIVEWAYS FROM TIME TO TIME AND IT IS A CERTAIN PRICE.

SO, WHEN I QUOTE THEM THE MILLION DOLLARS A MILE THEY'RE GOING REALLY? I CAN GO, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THE COST OF ASPHALT. I MEAN, CONTRACTORS AND BUILDERS ARE LIKE I KNOW THE COST OF ASPHALT. I KNOW THIS AND THAT. SO I KNOW SOME OF THAT IS BECAUSE STEPHANIE LIKE DOING D.O.T. STANDARDS ON ROADS.

BUT I -- GOOD MIGHT BE THE ENEMY OF GREAT BUT PERFECTION IS THE ENEMY OF GOOD AND GREAT TOO. I THINK ON MAYBE SOME OF THE ROADS MIGHT NOT GET THEM PER FACT BUT IF WE CAN DO SOMETHING WITH THESE DIRT ROADS. AND I GET SOME OF THEM ARE PRIVATE ROADS AND I HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS EVERY DAY. BUT A LOT OF THESE ROADS, THEY'RE JUST BEING CARVED DOWN LOWER AND LOWER AND LOWER.

LIKE THE GRAND CANYON AND THEY'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, ALL KINDS OF ISSUES. IF WE COULD TAKE SOME OF THOSE MILLINGS AND EVEN IF IT'S NOT A PERFECT SOLUTION FOREVER, YOU KNOW, FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, IT JUST -- BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE DOING GOOD WITH THE RESURFACING. WE'RE GETTING THERE. WE'RE MAKING A DENT. AND WE HAVE SOME LIST OF ROADS TO BE PAVED. BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST A CHALLENGE. SPEAKER: THE MOUNTAIN OF MILLINGS THAT I HAVE RIGHT NOW, I THINK I DID THE MATH, FIVE OR SIX MONTHS AGO, IT WOULD PAVE ABOUT TWO MILES OF DIRT ROADS.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: THAT'S TWO MORE MILES THAN WE HAD BEFORE.

SPEAKER: WELL YEAH. DO I APPLY THAT TO THE CURRENTLY APPROVED DIRT ROAD PAVING LIST OR DO WE WANT TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, CREATE A DIFFERENT PROGRAM? THE ONE THING WITH THE RESEARCH THAT I DID IS THERE ARE SOME CHEMICALS THAT WILL BOND THE SAND. AND I'VE STARTED LOOKING INTO THAT. AND, YOU KNOW, THAT MAY BE A LITTLE BIT OF HELP. YOU KNOW WHAT WE TRY TO DO TO TIGHTEN UP THE ROADS, ONE, WHERE WE CAN FIND CRUSH CRETE IS WE MIX CRUSH CRETE AND SAND AND CLAY TOGETHER. AND THAT GIVES US A GOOD BASE. WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT ON INDIAN TRAILS. THIS WILL BE OUR SECOND YEAR. SO, WE'RE A COUPLE OF THOUSAND FEET. IF YOU REMEMBER THEY AGREED TO PAY A LITTLE MORE IN THEIR MSBU. SO IT WILL TAKE US PROBABLY FIVE OR SIX YEARS BEFORE WE GET TO THE END OF IT BUT IT'S GIVING US THAT GOOD BASE THAT YOU NEED.

WE CAN DO THAT COUNTY WIDE. CRETE WHEN WE STARTED WAS CRUSH- SOMETHING EVERYBODY WANTED TO GET RID OF AND NOW IT'S HARDER AND HARDER TO FIND. COMMISSIONER: WE USED TO USE OYSTER SHELLS AND IT DOES THE SAME THING. BUT THAT'S A LOT OF OYSTERS. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I GUESS WHAT I AM SAYING THEN I'LL QUIT. BUT IS THE ONES THAT AREN'T ON -- AREN'T APPROVED FOR FUNDING YET, LIKE THEY'RE WAY DOWN ON THE LIST, IF WE CAN DO SOMETHING TO PUT A LITTLE MORE INTO IT TO JUST GET IT TO WHERE IT'S PASSABLE. FOR INSTANCE, MELROSE ROAD. I MEAN, WHEN IT RAINS, MELROSE ROAD YOU GET STUCK AND IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO PASS. SOME OF THOSE ROADS LIKE IT'S ON THE PAYING LIST EVENTUALLY. SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN I BRING MY GRAND KIDS TO MELROSE ROAD IT MIGHT GET PAVED. BUT CAN WE DO SOMETHING TO IT IN THE MEANTIME? SOME OF THOSE TYPES OF SITUATIONS. SPEAKER: YOU KNOW WE TRY OUR BEST WITH THE MATERIALS AND THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE. AFTER, YOU KNOW, EVERY RAINFALL EVENT, IF THERE ARE WASHOUTS, WE BRING MATERIAL OUT THERE, OUR GRADERS. WE MINE OUR OWN DIRT. WE DO A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF MIXING SAND AND CLAY. AS WE GET CRUSHED CRETE. WHEN WE CAN'T UTE CRUSHED CRETE WE USE LIME ROCK.

NOT QUITE AS GOOD. UT WE'RE DOING THAT MIX WITH THE 175 MILES WE REALLY CAN'T DO IT, YOU KNOW, EVERYWHERE.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I'M GLAD TO HEAR WE'RE GETTING THE MILLINGS NOW. APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. I KNOW IT'S TOUGH.

THERE'S A LOT OF ROADS AND NOT A LOT OF MONEY TO GO AROUND.

COMMISSIONER: AND NO MONEY. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: WELL THERE'S 2.3 MILLION THAT MIGHT BE COMING BACK TO US. THAT'S A START. PUT THAT IN TO ROADS AND PAVING.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANYTHING ELSE FOR DALE? IF NOT. THANK YOU, DALE. APPRECIATE THE RESEARCH. ALL RIGHT.

>> LAST WEEK DALE AND I MET WITH TE TERRY SUGS. THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR FOR PUTNAM COUNTY.

[01:55:01]

>> ABOUT FOUR MONTHS BEFORE THEY HAVE A SET OF PLANS BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO REPAIR OR REBUILD.

>> THANKS, DALE. WERE THERE ANY OTHER THINGS ON THAT RIDE

AROUND? >> NO.

>> OKAY THAT'S ALL I HAVE. CHAIRMAN CELLA: ANYTHING FOR HOWARD? COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I DID -- WE TALKED ABOUT PROJECT REVIEW PROCESS. AND I THINK IS IT NEXT MEETING THAT WE'RE GOING TO PRESENT THAT?

>> WE'RE GOING TO MEET ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE. WE'LL MEET ON THE 21ST. WE HAVE A MEETING TOMORROW. I DO WITH DALE, JAMES AND OTHERS TO TALK ABOUT THAT. AND ALSO ABOUT BONDING. SO WE WILL HAVE THAT READY FOR THE 21ST CHAIRMAN CELLA: THE 22ND. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IS JUST THE PROJECT FROM START, FROM WHEN WE FUND IT TO WE'RE CUTTING THE RIBBON ON IT. THAT WHOLE PROCESS. I KNOW GOVERNMENT TAKES A LONG TIME. SO THAT'S ONE OF FIDF YOREPT OF DOI RE EEAIGTINDIT PSSFDIKE K THIS SUPPOSED TO TAKE THREE YEARS? IS IT SUPPOSED TO BE FINISHED BY NOW? AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE LOOKING AT IMPLEMENTING ON THE PROJECT LIST

A SYSTEM LIKE THAT >> YES, SIR. I'VE TALKED TO DALE ABOUT THIS. SO, DALE PROVIDED YOU, COMMISSIONER ROLLINS, WITH A NICE KIND OF COLOR GRAPHIC WHERE IT HAD A -- IT WAS A MODIFIED GANT CHART. SO IT WAS A LITTLE EASIER TO READ AND TO UNDERSTAND YOU KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT. THE ADDITIONAL THING THAT WE'LL ADD TO IT WOULD BE A STOPLIGHT. GREEN, YELLOW, RED TO TELL YOU WHETHER IT'S ON PROJECT OR ON TRACK OR NOT FOR COMPLETION. WE'LL COMBINE ALL OF THOSE TOGETHER. HIS TEAM IS PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER. AND WE'LL ALSO HAVE THAT. AND THAT TRANSPARENCY AND THAT INFORMATION WILL HELP THE PROJECT ALONG. SO IT WILL BE WITHIN A BOOK OR ON-LINE. WE CAN PUT IT ONLINE AND EVERYONE CAN SEE THAT AND UNDERSTAND WHERE A PARTICULAR PROJECT IS INSTANTANEOUSLY -- GRAPHICALLY AND INSTANTANEOUSLY. THEN THE STOPLIGHT CHART AT THE TOP.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE MOVING TOWARDS.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I APPRECIATE THAT. I JUST WANTED TO LET THE BOARD KNOW WHAT I RECOMMENDED AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS FACE AND THAT IS WHY I WANTED TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION. I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF TERESA HAD IT. FOR INSTANCE, COUNTY STAFF IS GOING IN A THOUSAND DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS AND I'LL HAVE QUESTIONS ON WHERE ARE WE AT WITH THIS PROJECT. AND GET AN UPDATE. AND IF SHE HAS ACCESS TO IT SHE CAN JUST PULL IT UP AND SAY WE'RE HERE, HERE AND HERE AND THEN THAT'S UPDATED INTERNALLY AND THEN SHE CAN BRIEF US ON IT AS NEEDED. I THINK THE COUNTY MANAGER WAS OKAY WITH THAT AND IT MADE SENSE. THEN THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL BECAUSE WE GET QUESTIONS FROM THE PUBLIC A LOT. WHERE IS THIS AT? WHERE IS THIS AT? THEN THAT WAY WE DON'T HAVE TO BE, YOU KNOW, FIGURING OUT WHICH DEPARTMENT HEAD AND THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE IN OR WHATEVER IT IS THEN WE CAN HAVE A QUICK REFERENCE GUIDE. SORT OF LIKE WE USED TO WHEN COMMISSIONER BOLLA'S CHAIR -- THERE WAS A PRINTED OUT VERSION, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED THAT BUT SOMEWHERE WHERE KEY CAN SEE THE PROGRESS OF EACH PROJECT. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WE'RE STILL DOING THAT AT THE FINANCE MEETING.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: THERE'S A REPORT THAT IS GENERATED. SO, I'M NOT SURE MAYBE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN -- COMMISSIONER: NOBODY PASSES IT OUT. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: HOW CAN WE ACCESS IT ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS? CHAIRMAN CELLA: I'D LIKE TO MAKE A SUGGESTION. IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE GETTING MORE AND MORE IN THE WEEDS OF TERMS OF REPORTING. CAN'T WE JUST HAVE HERE IS WHERE WE START AND ENDED AND THE PROJECT IS 70 PERCENT, 60 PERCENT. AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE EVEN THE PUBLIC WE CAN PUT IT

[02:00:03]

SPEAKER: WELL I THINK -- NOT TO OVERWHELM AND TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE PRODUCTS THAT ARE OUT THERE. THE PRODUCT THAT WE HAVE FOR FINANCE AND AUDIT IS VERY DETAILED. IT'S DETAILED BECAUSE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE ASKED AND IT PROVIDES A HISTORY.

BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES SOMEBODY MAY ASK, IT COULD BE THE PUBLIC, SAYING WHY DID THIS PROJECT NOT GET COMPLETED ON TIME? AND YOU CAN GO BACK AND LOOK. BOTH DALE AND JAMES DO A VERY GOOD JOB.

THEY UPDATE IT EVERY FRIDAY. WE GO OVER IT. THE PRODUCT THAT I'VE TALKED ABOUT AND PROVIDED COMMISSIONER ROLLINS WAS SOMETHING EASIER. AS WE GO INTO THESE PROJECTS MORE AND MORE I WANTED YOU ALL TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT KIND OF AS A GROUP QUICKER.

AND THAT YOU CAN INSTANTANEOUSLY SEE A BUNCH OF THEM AT ONCE AND WILL BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY QUICKLY WHEN SOMETHING FALLS BEHIND TOGETHER. AND ANSWER THAT. SO, I DON'T WANT TO OVERLOAD WITH PRODUCTS IN THAT. I MEAN, WE HAVE GOV QA, A LOT OF OTHER ITEMS WE'RE USING TO TRACK ISSUES AND PRODUCTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. PUB WORKS IS ANOTHER ONE. AGAIN, TO STREAMLINE IT, WE'VE GOT TO REALLY COME DOWN TO AN EASIER PRODUCT AND TO TRANSMIT THAT TO BOTH THE BOARD. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I'M NOT WANTING ANY NEW PRODUCTS GRID. I JUST SIMPLY NEED TO HAVE ACCESS TO WHERE THE TIMELINE IS ON SMETHING AND IT NOT TAKE TWO OR THREE DAYS TO GET THAT YOU KNOW. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IS THAT ONLINE ANYWHERE? SPEAKER: THE LIST SHOULD BE ONLINE. WHERE IS TROY? DID YOU PUT THAT ON THE THING? WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT THE FINANCE AND AUDIT IS ONLINE.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: IF YOU HAVE ONE WATCH YOU KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS. IF YOU HAVE TWO IT GETS CONFUSING.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: I THINK WE'RE ALL AGREEING WE WANT WHATEVER IS ACCURATE AND, AT THE SAME TIME, WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE A WHOLE

DEPARTMENT WORKING ON FLOWCHARTS >> ONCE THE FLOWCHART IS DONE, THE FLOWCHART IS DONE. THAT'S THE POINT OF IT. IT'S THERE.

AND THEN YOU CAN -- IT'S NOT GOING TO BE UPDATED THAT REGULARLY. I MEAN, IT IS A LONG-TIME TO DO A PROJECT.

PARTICULARLY WHEN IT GOES INTO THE DESIGN PHASE. IT GOES THROUGH, YOU KNOW, FUNDING. THEN IT KICKS OFF GROUND BREAKING. I MEAN, YOU ARE TALKING MULTI-YEARS ON THESE. THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTOOD AND THE EXPECTATIONS OF A PARTICULAR ROAD PROJECT OR OTHER PROJECT

OUT THERE. >> MY THRUST WAS JUST TO MAKE SURE SOMEBODY WAS WATCHING AND LATELY WE'VE GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE WE HAVE FINISH DATES ON MOST OF THE PROJECTS. THOSE ARE THE KEY THINGS. THEN IF THE FINISHED DATE DOESN'T MAKE IT, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T KILL ANYBODY YOU JUST ASK WHY.

>> SURE. CHAIRMAN CELLA: I MEAN, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OVERSIGHT IN ADDITION TO MAKING SURE THE PUBLIC KNOWS WHERE WE ARE WITH CERTAIN THINGS. SO, WHATEVER YOU HAVE THAT IS THE TOOL THAT YOU ARE GOING TO -- OF CHOICE, I THINK EVERYBODY CAN WORK WITH THAT. SO. ANYTHING ELSE FOR COUNTY MANAGER? I JUST HAD THE ONE. I KNOW YOU WERE LOOKING INTO THE DUGOUT AT OMEGA. I JUST WANTED TO SEE WHERE WE WERE WITH THAT AND MAYBE GIVE US A SHORT SYNOPSIS, UPDATE AS TO, YOU KNOW, INSPECTION AND WHERE WE ARE WITH THE CONTRACTOR.

>> BOTTOM LINE IS WE'RE HOLDING THE CONTRACTOR ACCOUNTABLE TO THE SCOPE OF WORK. IT WAS NOT CONSTRUCTED CORRECTLY. I WENT OUT THERE WITH JAMES TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT. AND WE'LL DO A BETTER JOB NEXT TIME ON MAKING SURE THE PROJECT IS DONE AS IT'S DONE IN PHASES OVER WHATEVER THAT IT IS GETTING PROPERLY INSPECTED. AND WE'RE GOING MOVE FORWARD ON THAT. ALSO HAVE A NICE RIDE AROUND WITH ONE OF OUR RESIDENTS OUT HERE IN THE AUDIENCE. MR. CARTER ON FRIDAY. TO GO AROUND AND TAKE A LOOK AT OTHER AREAS THAT WE CAN DO BETTER.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET'S MOVE ON TO OUR COUNTY

[COUNTY ATTORNEY]

ATTORNEY. >> COUNTY ATTORNEY: JUST QUICKLY FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE WHICH WILL THEN COME TO THE BOARD. BUT ON OCTOBER 15TH IN CONNECTION WITH THE RFPS THAT WE SENT OUT FOR THE BONDING, THEY HAVE BEEN EVALUATED AND RANKED. SO ON OCTOBER 15TH THE FINANCE COMMITTEE MEETING, THOSE RESULTS WILL BE POSTED. AND THEN THEY WILL COME TO THE BOARD AT THE OCTOBER 22ND MEETING FOR THE BOARD TO EITHER ACCEPT THAT RANKING OR TO REQUEST PRESENTATIONS. SO REMEMBER THERE ARE THREE DIFFERENT REQUESTS OUT THERE. CHAIRMAN CELLA: OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? ANYTHING ELSE FOR THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AT

[02:05:04]

[PUBLIC COMMENTS]

PUBLIC SPEAKER: THANK YOU CHERYL OWENS. I NOTICED TONIGHT WE HAD A COUPLE OF LIBRARY TOPICS THAT WERE DISCUSSED. WELL, MR. SMALLWOOD MIGHT SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM WITH OAK LEAF AND MIDDLEBURGH, AND THAT WOULD BE LOVELY. BUT IT STILL LEAVES US WITH KEYSTONE HEIGHTS WHICH HASN'T HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT EXPANSION OR REBUILD SINCE IT WAS CONSTRUCTED. AND WHILE KEYSTONE HEIGHTS IS A LOW INCOME COMMUNITY AND HASN'T GROWN VERY MUCH IN ALL OF ITS HISTORY, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE HAD A STATE-OF-THE-ART LIBRARY FOR THAT COMMUNITY TOO. IT KEY SERVES -- DESERVES IT. AND I WOULD REALLY HOPE THAT WE COULD PLAN ON A NEW FACILITY FOR IT ALSO. I KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE CONSIDERING BONDS FOR STORM WATER AND OTHER THINGS.

MAYBE WE COULD PUT A LITTLE BOND IN THERE FOR KEYSTONE HEIGHTS' LIBRARY? OR THINK OF OTHER WAYS THAT WE COULD COME UP WITH SOMETHING FOR THAT COMMUNITY. BECAUSE IT REALLY NEEDS A LITTLE ATTENTION. YOU KNOW, IT SITS DOWN THERE ON THE END OF THE COUNTY AND IT GETS FORGOTTEN FOR A LOT OF THINGS. AND THE COMMUNITY KNOWS THAT. WE LAUGHINGLY SAY THAT WE'RE THE PART OF THE COUNTY THAT NOBODY KNOWS EXISTS. AND IT'S TRUE. IF YOU WERE TO ASK THE OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTY WHERE KEYSTONE HEIGHTS IS, THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT WE'RE PART OF THE COUNTY.

AND, FRANKLY, I'VE TALKED WITH SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS AND THEY SAY WE DON'T DESERVE A NEW LIBRARY BECAUSE WE DON'T PAY ANY TAXES. WELL THAT'S RIGHT WE DON'T PAY THE TAXES LIKE OAK LEAF OR OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTY, BUT WE DESERVE JUST AS MUCH OF AN EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY AS ANYBODY ELSE. I'M ON THE LIBRARY BOARD AND I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO BE ABLE TO SAY TO MY COMMUNITY THAT WE'RE GOING HAVE A NEW LIBRARY OR AN EXPANDED LIBRARY. SO, PLEASE, AS YOU CONSIDER WHAT YOU ARE DOING WITH THE OTHER LIBRARIES, PLEASE THINK ABOUT US TOO. I'D LIKE TO HEAR THINGS THAT ARE SAYING WE'RE GOING TO BE CONSIDERED TOO INSTEAD OF JUST OAK LEAF. THANK YOU.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU, MS. OWEN. BY THE WAY, THE KEYSTONE HEIGHTS SAFETY NET ALLIANCE, WHICH IS AN OUTGROWTH IN CLAY COUNTY SAFETY NET ALLIANCE WILL BE MEETING ON NOVEMBER 14TH. I'M NOT SURE WHERE THEY'RE MEETING BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THEY'LL BE DISCUSSING ARE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY THERE. ONE OF THE THINGS THEY'LL BE DISCUSSING AT LENGTH IS A TEEN CENTER AND OTHER THINGS. SO THAT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING YOU PROBABLY WANT TO REPRESENT YOUR BOARD AT SO THAT THE NEEDS CAN BE DISCUSSED AND THERE MAY BE WAYS FOR US TO BE ABLE TO HELP OUT WITH THAT. BUT THE KEY THERE IS ANDRE VAN HERDEN IS DOING THAT.

AND HIS BELIEF IS THAT THE COMMUNITY SHOULD BOND TOGETHER TO HELP ITSELF AND SOLVE EACH OTHER'S NEEDS NOT SO MUCH DEPENDENT ON GOVERNMENT. SO I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU ATTEND THAT MEETING. I THINK YOU WILL FIND IT VERY BENEFICIAL. I APPRECIATE IT. SPEAKER: THANK YOU.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: MR. AUTO? PUBLIC SPEAKER: SEX TOYS OF CLAY COUNTY FLORIDA. WISH LIST THAT, YOU KNOW, IS SUCH A JOKE, THE WISH LIST. KEEP HEARING ABOUT THIS WISH LIST. PUBLIC RECORD, WE'LL HOLD YOU TO IT. I LIKED HEARING THAT. IF OFFICERS RIDE THE BUS AND NOT UNNEEDED CARS, IT WOULD HELP IN MANY WAYS. AND I SAID SOMETHING TO THE OFFICER THAT WAS JUST LEAVING, AND HE TOLDLY AGREED AND SAID I WAS RIGHT. SO WE NEED TO RE-LOOK AT THAT. WE NEED TO TAKE THE FAIRGROUND BACK TO THE FINANCE FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. IT WASN'T LISTED FOR PUBLIC COMMENT ON

[02:10:02]

OLDEST. THE SPEAKER SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS THE OLDEST.

YOU KNOW, IT WAS SAID TODAY ABOUT SAVING MONEY, BUT YOU ALL ARE WASTING OVER HALF OF THE $200,000 ON A SEAL TO PUT MORE CHURCHES ON IT. SO, WHICH IS MORE IMPORTANT, PUTTING CHURCHES ON A SEAL OR GIVING THE COMMUNITY THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON THAT DECISION? I WOULDN'T SAY EITHER WAY WHICH IS RIGHT OR WHICH IS WRONG BUT, YOU KNOW, THE -- I WANT YOU TO REMEMBER THAT THE LEGISLATION IS GOING TO CUT THE BUDGET. YOU ALL JUST SAID THAT IN THE LAST MEETING. SO, LET'S NOT FORGET ABOUT THOSE CUTS THAT ARE GOING TO COME. AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO TELL US THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE HARD TO. SAN FR SAN FRANCISCO IS TALKED ABOUT. WE NEED TRANSGENDER BATHROOMS. I'M SEEING SIGNS XY AND XX FOR THE SAME ROOM. SO, IF YOU COULD JUST COMMENT ON HOW WE'RE GOING TO GO FORWARD WITH THE TRANSGENDER BATHROOMS THAT WOULD BE GREAT. I LIKE THE CHIEF TO SPEAK ON THE OVERDOSE DEATHS. I'M HEARING THEY'RE FINDING PEOPLE IN THE BATHROOMS, PUBLIC BATHROOMS, ODING. AND I'VE HEARD THAT THE INDUSTRIES ARE GOING TO COME TOGETHER AND FILE BANKRUPTCY. SO, YOU ALL ARE SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY ON THESE ATTORNEYS AND I'D LIKE FOR YOU ALL TO LET US KNOW WHAT -- CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE'RE NOT SPENDING ANY MONEY ON ATTORNEYS MR. AUTO. PUBLIC SPEAKER: YOU DIDN'T JOIN THE LAWSUIT? CHAIRMAN CELLA: WE DID BUT IT'S CONTINGENT ON FEES THEY COLLECTED FROM THE COMPANY.

PUBLIC SPEAKER: I GUESS IF YOU GOT AN ATTORNEY FOR FREE I GUESS I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT. USUALLY DON'T GET ATTORNEYS FOR FREE. THEY USUALLY WANT THEIR MONEY. I'D LIKE YOU TO COMMENT ON THE $5 MILLION IN FLOOD HOUSING YOU ARE BUYING OUT. THEY SAID THAT YOU WERE GOING TO MAINTAIN ALL THESE PROPERTIES AND YOU HAVE A HARD TIME MAINTAINING THE DITCHES AND THE ROADS. SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO BE TAKING CARE OF ALL THESE PARCELS THAT ARE GOING TO BE BOUGHT UP THAT ARE FLOODING OUT? CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU, MR. AUTO. MR. HODGES? PUBLIC SPEAKER: GOOD AFTERNOON. ONE THING I WANT TO ADDRESS TO YOU GUYS IS AS A CONTRACTOR HERE IN CLAY COUNTY WE HAVE A RULE CALLED ONE AND DONE. IN OTHER WORDS IT MEANS WHEN WE TAKE ON A PROJECT WE DO IT ONE TIME. WE DO IT CORRECTLY. AND WE FINISH IT AND HAVE IT INSPECTED AND WE MAKE SURE IT'S DONE. AND I'VE LOOKED AROUND THE COUNTY AND MR. CELLA AND MR. ROLLINS AND MR. HENDRY, WE'VE ALL TALKED ABOUT IT. ABOUT THAT DUGOUT.

YOU KNOW IT JUST SHOWS POOR CRAFTSMANSHIP. BUT WHAT REALLY CAUGHT MY ATTENTION ABOUT IT WAS THAT A CITIZEN HAD TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT. IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER GOT TO THAT POINT.

SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINES WE'VE LOST QUALITY AND CRAFTSMANSHIP AND WE'VE LOST THE FACT THAT PEOPLE DON'T OVERSEE CONTRACTORS AND THINGS IN THEIR COUNTY. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL OF OUR MONEY. OURS, YOURS, EVERY ONE OF US. MAKE SURE THE JOB IS DONE RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT DALE IS STRUGGLING WITH AT LOVE THINGS RIGHT NOW AND SOME OF WHAT HE IS STRUGGLING COMES FROM POOR JOB PERFORMANCE. WOULDN'T YOU AGREE, DALE? PASTIMES. SO I WOULD ASK YOU ALL TO PLEASE SPEAK WITH THE INSPECTORS HERE IN THE COUNTY AND GET THEM TO DO A LITTLE BETTER JOB OVERSEEING THESE PROJECTS AND THE DEPARTMENT HEADS. FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON. LET'S GET THEM OUT OF THE OFFICE AND BACK IN THE FIELD. LET'S GET THEM HANDS ON SEEING WHAT'S GOING ON. A LOT OF TIMES YOU GET A PIECE OF PAPER SLID UP AND IT SAYS THE PROJECT IS COMPLETED. AS FAR AS YOU KNOW IT'S COMPLETED. A LOT OF TIMES THAT SAME DEPARTMENT HEAD THINKS THAT PROJECT IS COMPLETED AND IT'S DONE CORRECTLY TOO. UNTIL THE EYES ARE PUT ON IT NOBODY ACTUALLY KNOWS. SO, IF YOU GET A CHANCE LET'S WORK ON OUR INSPECTION. LET'S MAKE CLAY COUNTY A FINE PLACE TO WHERE WHEN A PROJECT IS DONE AND RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC WE CAN BE PROUD OF IT. WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE ASHAMED OF THE WORK DONE HERE AND WHERE TAXPAYER DOLLARS ARE SPENT.

THANK YOU. CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU.

MR. CARTER? DO YOU HAVE A EGYPT TODAY? PUBLIC SPEAKER: JUST TWO THINGS TODAY.

[LAUGHTER] DALE CARTER, LILY CARTER ROAD. ONLY THING I GOT LIKE MR. DALE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE CHIP AND SEAL. THE STUFF THAT HE'S GOT IS COMING FROM

[02:15:04]

JUST LIKE I TALK TO YOU ALL ABOUT SOME OF THE DIRT FOR THE GUN RANGE YOU SAID YOU HAVE THE WRONG DIRT. YOU GOT THREE SIDES TO THAT SAME GUN RANGE. YOU CAN BE ON TWO SIDES AND FILL IN THE POND THAT YOU PROBABLY HAVE TO FILL IN. THERE'S OTHER PLACES TO ARE THAT DIRT THAT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO BUY AS MUCH. THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. BUT ALSO LIKE I SAID ABOUT THE ROADS, THE DRIVEWAYS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. I DO MILLING ALL THE TIME. IF YOU DO IT FOUR INCHES THICK ON SMALL ROADS THAT DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TRAFFIC TO THEM, THAT WILL WORK FINE. IT WILL WORK EXCELLENT. THEY'LL LAST FOR A LONG TIME UNTIL DALE CAN GET TO IT AT A LATER DATE WHERE HE CAN ACTUALLY PAVE IT AND IT MAKES A GOOD SUBSURFACE FOR THE PAVEMENT OVER THE TOP OF IT. ALSO ON HIS ROADS, USED TO, THIS IS A USED TO SITUATION FK THEY USE TO HAVE A BASIS OF HOW MUCH MONEY THEY SPENT ON EACH ROAD. IF IT STARTED COSTING TOO MUCH MONEY THAT'S WHEN THEY PAVED IT. BIG BRANCH, JOHN'S CEMETERY, MIMOSA. NOW YOU DON'T HAVE THAT EVIDENTLY BECAUSE THE ROADS THAT YOU ALL ARE PAVING IS NOT THAT -- IN DISTRICT 4. SOME OF THE ROADS THAT YOU ALL PAVED, INDIGO, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY. YOU COULD THROW A ROCK AND HIT ANOTHER PAVED ROAD. WHY DID WE DO INDIGO? BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF DRAINAGE. MOSTLY COULD HAVE BEEN REPAVED. COULD HAVE BEEN GROUND UP ALL THE ASPHALT AND PUT BACK OVER IT AND INDIGO WOULD HAVE BEEN A DIRT ROAD BUT YOU WOULD HAVE HAD MIMOSA FIXED AND SOME OF THE SMALL ROADS THAT ADJACENTS COMES BACK TO IT. SOME OF THAT STUFF RIGHT THERE THAT COULD BE DONE TOO. I JUST BELIEVE INDIGO WAS A WASTE OF MONEY. YOU ALL SPENT A MUNCH OF MONEY FOR NOTHING WRONG WITH IT BUT THE LAST PEELS OF THE ROAD THAT YOU ALL JUST PAVED, THERE'S TEN PEOPLE THAT LIVES ON THE ROAD. YOU COULD SPEND THAT MONEY, WHATEVER YOU SPENT, ON A LOT MORE PLACES THAT COULD ACTUALLY BENEFIT MORE. THAT'S ALL I GOT. AND HE GOT ON THE DUGOUT. LIKE HE SAID, I DON'T SEE HOW IT GOT FROM A TO D WITHOUT SOME INSPECTIONS. AND EVIDENTLY PARKS AND RECS MIGHT NEED TO CHECK ON THAT SITUATION.

THANK YOU. CHAIRMAN CELLA: THANK YOU, DALE.

ANYONE ELSE? THAT'S ALL THE CARDS I HAVE. SEEING NONE, WE'LL MOVE ON TO COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS?

[COMMISSIONERS' COMMENTS]

CHAIRMAN CELLA: COMMISSION HENDRY? ALL SET. COMMISSION HUTCHINGS? COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I'M FREEZING. I FEEL LIKE WE'RE IN A MEAT MARKET. WE COULD REDUCE COSTS [LAUGHTER] CHAIRMAN CELLA: YOUR COUNTY MANAGER HAS A HIGH TOLERANCE FOR HEAT. ALL RIGHT. COMMISSIONER BOLLA? COMMISSIO COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I JUST DISCUSS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE MEETING. I THOUGHT WHAT WE'D DO IS HAVE TERESA'S GROUP PERCENT THE NUMBERS ON THE ROAD USAGE. WE WERE AT .4 SOMETHING. I THINK WE'RE UP ABOVE 5 NOW. IT'S GETTING WORSE. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE JIVE THAT SCIENCE WITH OUR LISTS OF PRIORITIES OF WHAT WE THINK WE'RE GOING DO. THE OTHER THING I THOUGHT AND I WANTED TO MENTION HERE KIND OF GET SOME DIRECTION ON IT. WE HAD A LITTLE DISCUSSION AFTER THE FINANCE MEETING WITH DALE, AND DALE CAN I GET YOU UP HERE A SECOND? AND I'M REFERRING TO THE AMOUNT OF MAINTENANCE DOLLARS WE'VE GOT GOING FORWARD AFTER WE VOTED DOWN THE STORM WATER. THERE'S NO OTHER MONEY ON THE HORIZON. AND I KNOW WE DON'T WANT TO RAISE TAXES. HOWEVER, PART OF THE PROBLEM HERE IS THERE'S NOT ENOUGH MONEY TO DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO. WHAT KIND OF MONEY ARE YOU LOOKING AT FOR

[02:20:01]

SO IT'S NOT A LOT OF MONEY. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I'LL BE SITTING DOWN WITH MR. WANNAMAKER AND BEFORE THE INFRASTRUCTURE MEETING I'M GOING SHOW HIM A LIST THAT'S BEEN MAKING ME CRY FOR THE LAST THREE OR FOUR DAYS AS I'VE BEEN PREPARING IT.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WHAT'S ALARMING IF WE HAVE ANYTHING THAT LOOKS LIKE A SAFETY ISSUE WE HAVE TO FIX THAT FIRST. YOU GET THE CALLS, I GOT A POTHOLE IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE WHAT CAN I DO. I CALL DALE AND HE FIXES IT. AT SOME POINT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SAY THERE'S NO MORE MONEY YOU JUST HAVE TO DRIVE AROUND THE POTHOLE. I'D LIKE TO TAKE ANOTHER RUN AT THIS STORMWATER THING. I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM WAS THAT WE DIDN'T -- MAYBE WE DIDN'T HAVE AN EQUITABLE WAY OF COLLECTING IT. I THINK I'D LIKE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE PERMIABLE ALTERNATIVE. I KNOW THAT'S GOING TO HIT BUSINESSES HARDER THAN RESIDENTIALS BUT WE NEED MORE MONEY HOWEVER WE APPROACH THIS THING. AND THEN I'D LIKE TO CONSIDER PUTTING IT ON A REFERENDUM AT GENERAL ELECTION. WE'LL LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER WHETHER THEY WANT GOOD ROADS OR NOT. THAT WAY I CAN LOOK A GUY IN THE EYE WHEN HE SAYS I GOT A POTHOLE AND I CAN SAY I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT.

THAT'S ALL I CAN DO. OTHER THAN DIVERTING MONEY FROM SOME OTHER OPERATING FUND TO PUT INTO MAINTENANCE, WHICH I'M UP FOR THAT, WE WANT TO CLOSE A LIBRARY OR SOMETHING. AT SOME POINT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO COME UP WITH MORE MONEY FOR HIM. I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S COMING FROM. WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS LET'S DO THIS INFRASTRUCTURE THING AND LET'S PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER BEFORE WE GET TO THE END OF THE LIKE THOUGH IF YOU CAN'T SUPPORT IT SAY SOMETHING. THIS LAST TIME WAS REALLY DISHEARTENING WHAT HAPPENED. I MEAN, WE WASTED A LOT OF MONEY AND A LOT OF STAFF TIME AND MONEY GOING DOWN THE LINE AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN WE DECIDED WE DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT. THAT ISN'T THE WAY THIS OUGHT TO WORK. IF YOU CAN'T SUPPORT IT, OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND SAY SOMETHING SO WE'LL STOP. BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO WASTE MY TIME EITHER. BUT I'M SEEING THIS AS THE ONLY REAL WAY WE'RE GOING WORK OUR WAY OUT OF IT. CHAIRMAN CELLA: I WAS A 5-0 VOTE AGAINST IT. SO, IF YOU ARE AGAINST IT, THEN, YOU KNOW. I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THE PREMISE I THINK THE STORM WATER FAILED FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS. ONE IT WAS INEQUITABLE. TWO, IT WAS NOT ROLLED OUT IN THE PROPER FASHION THAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AND PEOPLE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND AND I THINK IT TOOK EXCEPTION IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS AND, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS GOING TO BE THE CASE OR, YOU KNOW, THE, YOU KNOW, THE REACTION TO IT. SO, YEAH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN SOME CASES SOME OF US CHANGED OUR MINDS AS WE WENT ALONG. I ASKED A COUPLE TIMES POINT BLANK TO OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY SHOULD WE TAKE A VOTE TO SEE WHERE WE ARE? I WAS TOLD NO WE CAN DO THAT AS WE GO ALONG. WE WENT ALONG AND GOT TO A POINT WHERE WE GOT REACTION FROM CONSTITUENTS AND TAXPAYERS AND THEY WERE DEADSET AGAINST IT. PERIOD. I'M STILL GETTING EMAILS AND COMMENTS AS TO STORMWATER EVEN THOUGH WE'VE TURNED IT DOWN. SO, OBVIOUSLY, FOR THIS REALLY HIT PEOPLE IN THE WRONG WAY FOR WHATEVER REASON. SO, I MEAN, THE BOTTOM LINE IS, DO YOU KNOW THAT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS? PROBABLY NOT. SO, BOTTOM LINE IS I DON'T DISAGREE THAT WE NEED TO IDENTIFY A SOURCE TO BE ABLE TO DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO IN TERMS OF MAINTENANCE, BUT LOOKING AT THE STORM WATER THING I THINK WE NEED TO DROP THAT AND MOVE AHEAD AND JUST LOOK FORWARD. COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I UNDERSTAND ON THE MAINTENANCE THIS DOESN'T HELP SPECIFICALLY WITH SHORT-TERM MAINTENANCE BUT LONG-TERM WE HAVE TO HOLD THE LINE ON THAT $2.3 MILLION. AS MUCH AS, YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT HEAR THERE'S OTHER NEEDS FOR IT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S -- IF WE SAY WE HAVE NO MONEY TO DO STUFF, I KNOW WHERE 2.3 MILLION IS THAT WE COULD USE FOR ROADS AND REPAVING AND BUILDING ADDITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S DESPERATELY NEEDED. SO, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, VOTE ON THAT. WE HAVEN'T HAD A VOTE ON THAT. BUT I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND.

WE CAN'T CLAIM THERE'S NO MONEY AND WE GOT TO RAISE TAXES AND

[02:25:01]

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: SO WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO AS FAR AS MAINTENANCE MONEY? DO YOU WASN'T TO TRY TO GET IT OUT OF SOME OTHER PLACE? CHAIRMAN CELLA: I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'LL HAVE TO EXPLORE HERE IN THE COMING COUPLE OF DAYS AND THEN BE ABLE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION AS WE MOVE FORWARD TO THE NEXT MEETING AND SEE WHERE IF ANYWHERE WE CAN FIND SOMETHING. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'M TRYING TO EITHER PUT IT ON THE AGENDA FOR THIS MEETING OR NOT. THAT'S WHERE I AM COMING FROM. CHAIRMAN CELLA: IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION, WE CAN PUT IT ON THE AGENDA AND THEN MAKE A DETERMINATION AS TO, YOU KNOW, OUT OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE WHERE WE MIGHT GO. BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THAT PRIOR TO THE MEETING. IN THE MEANTIME, WE'VE GOT TWO WEEKS TO WORK WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER AND COME UP WITH SOME DE WHYS AS TO WHERE WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GENERATE THAT. WHETHER IT'S ADDITIONAL REVENUE OR JUST SHIFTING REVENUES.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: OKAY THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT.

COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I WOULD JUST SAY I DO THINK THERE'S A BENEFIT TO LETTING THE PUBLIC, EVEN IF IT IS A STRAW BALLOT, LET THEM HAVE A VOICE. I THINK THIS LAST YEAR WAS A PERFECT STORM FOR WHY IT WASN'T POPULAR. BECAUSE WE HEAR A LOT OF INDIVIDUAL CONCERNS ABOUT PAVING. AND WE KNEW THAT THE WHOLE REASON FOR THE STORMWATER UTILITY TAX OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT WAS SO WE COULD GET MORE PAVING DONE. BUT ONCE EVERYBODY GOT UPSET ABOUT THE TAX THERE WAS ZERO COMMENT ABOUT I WANT MY ROAD PAVED. SO MESSAGING, THAT PROBABLY COULD HAVE BEEN DONE BETTER. THE POLITICAL CLIMATE IN CLAY COUNTY AT THE TIME, THERE WAS OTHER GOVERNMENTAL BODIES THAT KICKED UP ENOUGH DUST THAT IT CAME BACK, I THINK, ON THIS ISSUE.

SO I WOULDN'T BE OPPOSED TO PUTTING IT ON THE BALLOT. I DON'T KNOW WHEN IT'S EVER WRONG TO ASK SOMEBODY, DO YOU WANT TO PAY FOR THIS. IF THEY SAY NO, AND THAT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER THAT I CAN LOOK YOU IN THE EYE. BECAUSE I FEEL THAT WAY ABOUT LIBRARIES AND PARKS. WE ASKED 7 YEARS AGO, MAYBE SIX, DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A LINE ITEM TAX THAT IT IS DEDICATED TO PARKS AND LIBRARIES? AND THE CLAY COUNTY PEOPLE SAID NO WE DON'T.

SO, IN MY MIND, PARKS AND LIBRARIES ARE NOT AS IMPORTANT TO THE PEOPLE IN CLAY COUNTY AS MAYBE PAVING. BUT THAT MAY BE MY PERCEPTION. IF WE PUT STORMWATER RELATED TO PAVING ON THE BALLOT, THEY MAY VOTE FOR THAT. BUT WE'VE GIVEN THEM THE CHOICE. OTHERWISE, IT IS WHAT IT IS, AND WE HEARD YOU, AND WE'RE NOT RAISING THE MONEY SO WE'RE NOT SPENDING THE MONEY.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I DIDN'T REALLY FEEL THE PEOPLE THAT WERE HERE WERE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE FOLKS I REPRESENT. I THINK IT WAS MAINLY -- COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: YOUR FOLKS DIDN'T TURN OUT. THAT'S MY POINT.

COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I HAD ONE. BUT THEY DIDN'T TURN OUT BECAUSE THEY PRETTY MUCH THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO GO AHEAD. I'D LIKE TO SEE IT GO ON A REFERENDUM TOO. I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS. THAT WAY WE'VE GOT -- WE'VE TAKEN EVERYBODY'S TEMPERATURE AND IF IT DOESN'T PASS, FINE.

COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: I WILL TELL YOU THERE'S ANOTHER GOVERNMENT BODY PUTTING SOMETHING ON THE AGENDA, I DON'T THINK THE UPCOMING 12 MONTHS FROM NOW IS THE TIME TO DO IT. I THINK YOU JEOPARDIZE BOTH. AND THAT MAY NOT BE -- COMMISSIONER BOLLA: WELL -- COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: THAT'S THE PROBLEM. WE LIVE IN THE REST OF THE WORLD.

COMMISSIONER HUTCHING: WE'RE NOT IN A VACUUM. PERSONALLY, I DO HAVE ANGST IF YOU PUT THEM ON THE SAME BALLOT, THAT'S JUST NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO. CHAIRMAN CELLA: I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT. I THINK IT COULD HAMPER EITHER ONE OR BOTH.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: IF WE INCREASE THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT BUDGET BY 2.3 MILLION WOULD THAT HELP YOU WITH LONG-TERM MAINTENANCE ISSUES? SPEAKER: IT WOULD HELP ME. WHAT I AM LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW AND LIKE I'VE ALWAYS SAID THESE ARE THINGS THAT I KNOW OF. IT LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW TODAY I COULD SPEND -- OF COURSE I AM GOING TO HAVE DEVELOP THE PROJECTS, GET ESTIMATES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT I'VE GOT ABOUT A $3 MILLION HOLE. AND YOU CAN DRIVE A MILE-AND-A-HALF, TWO MILES FROM HERE ON HAVEN JUST ON THE OTHER SIDE OF GOVERNOR'S CREEK AND I'VE GOT A METAL PIPELINE RUNNING RIGHT THROUGH THAT DEVELOPMENT AND I'VE GOT HOLES IN IT THROUGH THEIR PARKING LOTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE. THAT'S, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY 150 TO $200,000 JUST TO FIX THAT SYSTEM.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: BUT THAT COULD COME OUT OF C. I. P.? SPEAKER: IF I COMPLETELY REBUILD IT IT COULD.

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: WHAT I AM SAYING IS IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO -- IF YOU RESURFACE A ROAD YOU DON'T HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, FILL IN THE POTHOLES. SPEAKER: I KNOW YOU WEREN'T

PAYING ATTENTION >>

[02:30:01]

COMMISSIONER ROLLINS: I KNOW THAT WAS A WHILE BACK.

COMMISSIONER HENDRY: LET'S BUY A GOAT.

SPEAKER: I'D HAVE A HAVE A NEW TITLE AS SHEPHERD.

CHAIRMAN CELLA: COMMISSIONER HENDRY HAS A FEW GOATS WE HAVE ACCESS TO. ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE COMMISSIONER BOLLA? COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'M FULLY COOKED. I'LL TAKE THAT AS BEING WE DON'T WANT TO PURSUE THIS. CHAIRMAN CELLA: YOU CAN STILL TALK ABOUT IT. COMMISSIONER BOLLA: I'M NOT GOING TO WASTE MY TIME NOW. CHAIRMAN CELLA: ALL RIGHT. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AT THIS POINT AND TIME OTHER THAN THANK YOU TO STAFF. I KNOW THAT IN THE FUTURE WEEKS WE'RE GOING TO BE TIGHTENING UP ON OUR AGENDA TIMEFRAMES. SO THAT WE CAN GET READY FOR THE SOON TO BE A YEAR FROM NOW, MAYBE YEAR AND A HALF FROM NOW TRANSITION INTO WHERE THE CLERK'S OFFICE WILL BE ACTUALLY RUNNING THE AGENDAS AND THOSE THINGS. SO, WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO HAVE TIGHTER SHIP. THAT'S ALL PART OF THE NEW AMENDMENT 10 REGULATIONS POLICY. OKAY. WITH THAT, WE'RE ADJOURNED.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.