Aug 06, 2024 Planning Commission

[Call to Order]

[00:00:09]

>> WELCOME TO THE CLAY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 6, 2024. MEETING IS NOW CALLED TO ORDER. I HAVE REQUESTED THAT LANCE ADDISON, REPRESENTING THE CLAY COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT, TO LEAD US IN THE EDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. PLEASE

STAND. >> UNITED STATES OF AMERICA -- AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS -- ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

>> MY NAME IS MARY BRIDGEMAN. I AM CHAIR OF THE CLAY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION. MINUTES FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING WILL BE TAKEN BY MS. CHRISTINE LYNCH FROM THE CLERK OF COURTS OFFICE, AND WE THANK YOU FOR THAT. WE HAVE OTHER STAFF FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING DEPARTMENT PRESENT. I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE THEM. WE HAVE CARSON, INTERIM DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND ZONING, OUR CHIEF PLANNER, CELLA, MCCOY, SENIOR PLANNER, MIKE BROWN, ZONING CHIEF, AND I BELIEVE THAT IS IT FROM PLANNING AND ZONING. IS THAT RIGHT? OKAY. OTHER FOLKS ARE PRESENT IN THE COUNTY TONIGHT, COURTNEY GRAHAM, COUNTY ATTORNEY, AND JAMIE HAVE TO, OUR ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY, AND WE HAVE HOWARD JUAN-MOCKER , COUNTY MANAGER.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. WE ALSO THANK DEPUTY ASH AND BARDWELL OF THE CLAY COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT FOR PROVIDING SECURITY THIS EVENING .I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER OFFICIALS I NEED TO RECOGNIZE. ANYONE I MISSED? IF NOT, I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, TO MY RIGHT, VICE-CHAIR, PETE DAVIS, COMMISSIONER HABER, TO MY RIGHT, COMMISSIONER RAY, COMMISSIONER ARRISON , AND FROM THE CLAY COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT, LANCE ADDISON. I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE THAT THE CLAY COUNTY COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD UP IS THAT I SAY CLAY COUNTY COMMISSION? THE CLAY COUNTY ADVISORY BOARD IS ADVISORY FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND MOST ARE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, OR THE PCC , WHICH WILL HAVE THE FINAL SAY ON THESE MATTERS, EITHER AT THE MEETING ON AUGUST 13TH, THE SECOND TUESDAY, A WEEK FROM TONIGHT, OR AUGUST 27TH, THE FOURTH TUESDAY, 3 WEEKS FROM TONIGHT. THE ZONING PORTION OF THE PCC IS HELD DURING THE REGULAR MEETING, WHICH STARTS AT 4:00 P.M. ZONING AND LAND-USE MATTERS ARE USUALLY HANDLED IN A TIME CERTAIN, 5:00 P.M. PLEASE CHECK THE AGENDA FOR THE ITEMS YOU ARE INTERESTED IN. IF THERE IS AN ITEM ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA YOU WISH TO SPEAK ABOUT, PLEASE FILL OUT WHY THE COMMENT CARDS AND GIVE IT TO MS. BLANCHE AND FIND THE CARDS IN THE ENTRY VESTIBULE. THIS TIME, WE REQUEST THAT YOU PUT YOUR CELL PHONE ON SILENT OR VIBRATE, AND

[1.  Approval of Minutes]

>> SO MOVED. >> A SECOND? SECOND. ALL THOSE

IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY, AYE. >> AYE.

>> ANY OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD . AT THIS TIME, ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC MAY COMMENT ON ITEMS NOT INCLUDED ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA, BUT PERTINENT TO THE BUSINESS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. I DO HAVE SOME COMMON CARTS , ALL MARKED FOR THE FIRST PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD, BUT IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK, INSTEAD, ON SOMETHING SPECIFIC ON THE AGENDA, YOU CAN DO THAT AT THAT TIME, BUT WHEN YOU COME FORWARD, IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK DURING THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD, THE LIGHTS ON THE PODIUM WILL LET YOU KNOW WHERE YOU STAND ON YOUR TIME. I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. ANYONE WHO WISHES TO COMMENT ON SOMETHING ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT, BUT IS PERTINENT TO OUR BUSINESS, MAY DO SO AT THIS TIME. ANYONE WHO WANTS TO ADDRESS A GENERAL TOPIC? OKAY. IF NOT, I'M GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT

[00:05:01]

WE SERVE TWO-YEAR TERMS AND MUST REAPPLY IF WE CONTINUE TO SERVE. AS I SAID EARLIER, THE COMMISSION'S DECISIONS ARE ADVISORY TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. THE TEACHER WE FOLLOW AT THIS MEETING -- WHICH I WILL DESCRIBE IT -- AND I HOPE IT IS HELPFUL TO YOU -- EACH ITEM ON THE AGENDA WILL BE PRESENTED BY A MEMBER OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING STAFF. AS PART OF THEIR PRESENTATION, THE STAFF MEMBERS WILL INDICATE WHETHER OR NOT THE DEPARTMENT RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF THE REQUESTED APPLICATION -- LAND-USE OR ZONING CHANGE -- AND THEN, THE APPLICANT ALL OF THIS PERSON, THE OWNER, OR THE OWNER'S AGENT -- WHO MADE THE APPLICATION -- WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO SPEAK, AND THEN FOLLOWING THE APPLICANT'S PRESENTATION, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO WISH TO SPEAK ON THAT ITEM WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO DO SO. AGAIN, IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK, YOU NEED TO FILL OUT ONE OF THE COMMENT CARDS AND GET IT TO MS. BLANCHETTE, AND IF YOU ARE UNSURE WHETHER YOU WANT TO SPEAK, GO AHEAD AND DO THAT.

THE OTHER THING YOU WILL NEED TO DO, IF YOU NEED TO SPEAK, TAKE THE OATH, WHICH WILL BE ADMINISTERED BY MS. BLANCHETTE IN A FEW MINUTES , SO, AT THAT TIME, WE ASK THAT ANYBODY WANTS TO SPEAK, MOVE TO THE CENTER AISLE AND TAKE THE OATH. AGAIN, NOT SURE WHETHER YOU WANT TO SPEAK OR NOT? GO AHEAD AND TAKE THE OATH .YOUR SPEAKING TIME IS LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES.

AGAIN, THE LIGHTS ON THE PODIUM WILL HELP YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE, GREEN WITHIN YOUR TIME, YELLOW WHEN IT IS GETTING SHORT, AND RED WHEN THE TIME IS UP. YOUR TIME IS FOR STATING YOUR VIEWS. OUR JOB, AT THAT POINT, IS TO LISTEN TO WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. AFTER THE STAFF, APPLICANT AND THE PUBLIC HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO STATE THEIR VIEWS, THEN THE APPLICANT HAS A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO THE POINTS RAISED BY THE PUBLIC DURING THEIR PRESENTATIONS. AT THAT TIME, THE COMMISSION WILL DISCUSS THE MATTER, AND THEN RENDER A DECISION. AGAIN, I THANK YOU AND COMMEND YOU FOR PARTICIPATING IN THIS PROCESS.

AT THIS TIME, MS. BLANCHETT WILL ADMINISTER THE OATH TO ANY PERSON WHO WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OR IN OPPOSITION TO ANY ITEM ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA. SO, IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK, RISE AND MOVE TOWARDS THE CENTER, AND MS. BLANCHETT WILL ADMINISTER

THE OATH. >> RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, PLEASE. DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THE TESTIMONY WILL

[1.  Public Hearing to consider COMP 24-0014. (District 2, Comm. Compere) (D.Selig)]

HELP YOU GOD? THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. THIS TIME, WE WILL TURN TO THE FIRST PUBLIC HEARING ON THE AGENDA, A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER COMP DASH 24-0014, PRESENTED BY OUR CHIEF

PLANNER, CELLA. >> GOOD EVENING. AS YOU SAID, THIS IS A FUTURE LAND USE ITEM FOR THAT AMENDMENT. IT WILL BE HERDED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ON AUGUST 27TH, LATER THIS MONTH . THE APPLICANT IS BRIAN SMALL OF BURDOCK LLC. PROPERTY IS ON TRAIL RIDGE ROAD, 3545, ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE ROAD. IT IS IN THE PLANNING DISTRICT OF RIDGEWOOD, DOCTORS INLAND. COMMISSIONER REPAIRS, DISTRICT 2. THIS WOULD PROXIMALLY CHANGE SIX ACRES OF A 10-ACRE PARCEL FROM RURAL/RESIDENTIAL TO RURAL SUBURBS. WE HAVE A PARCEL MAP ON THE LEFT. YOU CAN SEE THAT IT IS THE REAR PORTION OF THE PARCEL. THE PARCEL RUNS FROM TRAIL RIDGE SOUTH TO THE BOTTOM OF THE YELLOW BOX ON THE RIGHT. WE HAVE GOT THE AERIAL , AND THE YELLOW BOX IS THE 6 ACRES THAT IS SUBJECT TO THE CHANGE.

THESE TWO MAPS REPRESENT, ON THE LEFT, THE EXISTING FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION, AND ON THE RIGHT, THE PROPOSED. SO, THE SORT OF PEACH/TAN COLOR IS THE RURAL SUBURBS , AND THE YELLOW IS THE RURAL RESIDENTIAL. THE GREEN STRIPE

[00:10:03]

NOTICE, FOR THE MEETING, FOR THE ITEM, WAS POSTED, SIGNS, AND LETTERS WERE MAILED TO APPLICANTS WITHIN THE 350-FOOT BUFFER ZONE. THE PROJECT -- THE OWNERS OF THE PARCEL -- THEY'RE INTENDING TO RETAIN THE FOUR ACRES AT THE NORTH PART OF THE PARCEL, OR 4 1/2 ACRES, REALLY . THEY HAVE A HOMESTEAD THERE, AND THEN THE 6 ACRES, AS I SAID, AT THE SOUTH SIDE, WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THIS CHANGE. IT IS INTENDED THAT IT WOULD BE A PART OF RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION. IT WOULD INCORPORATE A COUPLE OF OTHER PARCELS IMMEDIATELY TO THE WEST OF GOING THERE INTO THAT IN A MOMENT. SO, I HAVE OUTLINED ALL THREE PARCELS. I WANT TO KIND OF GIVE YOU THE CONTEXT OF WHY THE CHANGE. THE BLUE BOX IS THE POTENTIAL SUBDIVISION THAT MIGHT HAPPEN SHOULD THIS BE APPROVED. THE EXISTING TWO PARCELS ON THE LEFT -- THERE IS A 20-ACRE, 10-ACRE PARCEL -- THERE'S A SORT OF TAN COLOR -- THAT'S THAT RURAL SUBURBS I WAS TALKING ABOUT. THOSE PARCELS ARE PART OF THIS PROPOSED SUBDIVISION. STAFF HAS TAKEN A LOOK AT IT.THERE IS A DENSITY BONUS PROGRAM THAT THE PARCELS WOULD QUALIFY FOR THAT WOULD ALLOW ABOUT 45 UNITS THERE . THE EXISTING 6 ACRES -- BECAUSE IT IS UNDER OUR -- ONE UNIT PER 5 ACRES -- HAS A CURRENT DENSITY OF 1 HOME, BASICALLY, ON THAT PARCEL . IF IT IS CHANGED, IT WOULD ALLOW AN ADDITIONAL SEVEN UNITS ON THAT PIECE , SO THE PROPOSAL TONIGHT IS ONLY PROPORTION THAT IS THE YELLOW-HATCHED -- REALLY ALL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT -- BUT TO KEEP IT IN CONTEXT, THERE IS AN ENTITLEMENT ON THE OTHER TWO PARCELS FOR A SUBDIVISION, APPROXIMATELY 45 HOUSES . THEY INTEND TO ADD THIS PIECE OF THIS PARCEL -- EXCUSE ME -- AND I HAVE GIVEN YOU KIND OF THE CONCEPT/LAYOUT PROVIDED TO STAFF. IT IS NOT TO SCALE. I HAVE TRIED TO KIND OF LAY IT OVER THE PARCEL MAP . THE BLUE HATCH -- THERE IS A LOT OF WETLANDS -- ABOUT A SOUTHERN 1/2 OR SO OF THESE PARCELS -- THAT WOULDN'T BE DEVELOPED, REGARDLESS, BUT THAT IS SORT OF THEIR CONCEPT LAYOUT, AND IT WILL CHANGE A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, GOING FORWARD . SO, STAFF LOOKS THROUGH QUITE A FEW CRITERIA THAT ARE MANDATED BY THE STATE AND BY OUR OWN CODE.

THEY HAVE TO DO WITH THINGS LIKE ROAD SPRAWL, AND THEY'RE DETAILED IN YOUR STAFF REPORT.HOWEVER, WE HAVE LOOKED THROUGH THOSE AND FEEL THAT THOSE CRITERIA HAVE BEEN MET , AND THEREFORE, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF COMP

24-14. >> THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR CLARIFICATION FROM THE COMMISSION?

>> I JUST HAVE ONE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE DENSITY BONUS, HOW IT GOES FROM ALL OF HIS YOU KNOW --

>> YES. >> 7 UP TO 45? HOW DOES THAT

HAPPEN? >> ADDITIONAL DENSITY IS ALLOWED IF THE APPLICANT CLUSTERS IN THE DEVELOPMENT, PROVIDES 150% OF THE REQUIRED PARKLAND THAT WOULD NORMALLY BE REQUIRED . THEY HAVE TO ALMOST DOUBLE IT, 150%, SET ASIDE .THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE A 50-FOOT BUFFER -- PERIMETER, BUFFER, THAT HAS GOT TO BE LANDSCAPED. THERE'S CRITERIA WITH SPECIFICS ABOUT THE LANDSCAPING. IT IS AROUND THE WHOLE OF THE PROPERTY. THE AIR HAS TO BE NO MORE THAN 60% OF THE REQUIRED OPEN SPACE -- HAS TO BE -- OR NOT HAS TO BE -- CAN BE WETLAND -- LAND -- OTHERWISE, IT WOULD BE UPLAND.

THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL -- I THINK -- IT'S 35% OF THE PROPERTY HAS TO BE OPEN SPACE. IF THERE'S PCN ACREAGE, THE

[00:15:02]

ADDITIONAL DENSITY. >> I WANT TO GET THE NUMBER RIGHT . WHAT WAS THE BUFFER BETWEEN THIS PROPERTY AND THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES? DID YOU SAY, 50 FEET?

>> THE PERIMETER BUFFER, YEAH, 50 FEET FOR THE PROJECT AS A

WHOLE. >> OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> ARE THERE QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER BARRE ?

>> I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND -- GOOD PRESENTATION, THANK YOU. WE HAVE GOT THREE PARCELS, 20-ACRE, 10-ACRE PARCEL, THEN THE PARCEL WE ARE LOOKING AT.

THE 20 AND THE 10-ACRES ARE NOT -- THEY ALREADY HAVE THE DENSITY THAT IS APPLICANT'S LOOKING FOR ON THIS PARCEL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT. CORRECT?

>> THOSE TWO PARCELS ARE ENTITLED -- RIGHT -- TO A

DENSITY OF 45 UNITS. >> OKAY. SO, THE PARCEL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT BRINGS IT IN LINE WITH THE TWO PARCELS

ADJACENT TO IT? >> CORRECT.

>> WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT 6 ACRES AND 7 UNITS?

>> WE ARE. >> ALL RIGHT. THE REPORT SHOWS 53 UNITS, AND I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY. I UNDERSTOOD WHAT WE WERE DOING IS, FOR SAKE OF CONVERSATION, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY UNDERSTOOD WE ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT SEVEN ADDITIONAL UNITS ON 6 ACRES.

>> CORRECT. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

>> QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? MR. ADDISON?

>> THANK YOU. SO, I'M LOOKING AT THE DENSITY CHART THAT YOU HAVE ON THE SUMMARY, AND IT SAYS THE EXISTING AND THE PROPOSED ARE EXACTLY THE SAME, NO INCREASE AND NO INCREASE.

>> NO. SORRY ABOUT THAT. THAT IS THE OLDER VERSION OF A STAFF REPORT. YES. I HAVE UPDATED -- TO -- SORRY -- LONG STAFF REPORT. HERE WE GO. TO JUST ADDRESS THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES, REALLY . THAT STATEMENT WAS REMOVED .

>> THAT IS JUST FOR THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES?

>> NO. THE TABLE IS FOR THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES. THE STATEMENT ABOUT THE PEOPLE DENSITY IS NOT QUITE -- IT IS NOT FULLY ACCURATE, BECAUSE ALTHOUGH THE THESE DENSITIES ARE THE SAME, THE HOUSING DENSITY BONUS OPTION IS ALLOWED UNDER THE SUBURBS , NOT UNDER THE RURAL/RESIDENTIAL.

>> OKAY. BECAUSE THE CHART DOES SAY THAT THIS IS --

>> CORRECT . >> BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE? I'M

JUST MAKING SURE. >> THE CHART?

>> THE CHART THAT I'M LOOKING AT.

>> THE TOP OF PAGE 8. >> HANG ON .

>> THE APPLICATION -- >> I DON'T SEE --

] >> RIGHT. BECAUSE THE BASE

DENSITY IS THE SAME. >> OKAY. SO, IN A SENSE, THAT

IS TRUE. >> BUT THEY BOTH HAVE --

>> ONE HAS A DENSITY OPTION, THE OTHER DOESN'T, A BONUS

OPTION. >> AS I SEE IT, THIS HAS NO INCREASE AND NO INCREASE. I MUST BE READING IT INCORRECTLY.

>> THE FAR-RIGHT-HAND. >> I SEE THAT. YEAH. AND FOR THE FIRST LINE, WHERE WE ARE TALKING -- THE BASE ACROSS -- THAT IS TRUE -- THERE ISN'T AN INCREASE IN BASE DENSITY, REGARDLESS OF WHAT OF HIS FUTURE LAND USE -- DISTRICT IT IS UNDER -- HOWEVER , THE CLUSTERING AND POINTS IS NOT THE SAME . RIGHT. SO, THE SECOND NO INCREASE IS

[00:20:02]

INCORRECT. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

>> SECOND IS INCORRECT? >> EXACTLY.

>> YES. >> ARE THERE QUESTIONS FOR

CLARIFICATION? >> I HAVE GOT ONE. I THOUGHT I UNDERSTOOD THIS UNTIL Y'ALL GOT TO TALKING ABOUT IT, BUT, SO, WHAT IS THE CHANGE IN THE AMOUNT OF DENSITY BY ADDING ADDITIONAL BONUS POINTS OR WHATEVER ? OR IS THERE NOT? IN OTHER WORDS, IF I JUST CHANGE THE ZONING WITHOUT THE BONUS POINTS, HOW MANY HOUSES COULD I BUILD, VS., WITH BONUS POINTS, HOW MANY HOUSES COULD I BUILD?

>> YOU CAN BUILD ONE HOUSE. >> I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ZONING, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT JONAS POINTS. IF I BUILD A 50-FOOT BUFFER OR ALL THESE WONDERFUL THINGS TO MAKE IT

MORE APPEALING, I CAN -- >> ADDITIONAL UNITS.

>> I CAN ADD ADDITIONAL UNITS.

>> SEVEN ADDITIONAL UNITS. >> BY DOING ALL THAT, HOW MANY ADDITIONAL UNITS CAN I ADD, VS. POINT ZONING?

>> 7. >> 7?

>> 7 ADDITIONAL , OR A TOTAL OF 8?

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? GO AHEAD.

>> NO. >> FIRE AWAY.

>> ALL RIGHT. SO, THIS IS KIND OF SPLITTING HAIRS, SO TO SPEAK, BUT THIS KIND OF -- ALONG THESE SAME LINES -- IF YOU GO DOWN TO PAGE -- LET'S SEE -- ABOUT THE URBAN SPRAWL ANNOUNCED, PAGE 18, TOP OF PAGE 18 , AND THERE'S A PARAGRAPH ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE INTENT OF CLAY COUNTY TO DISCRIMINATE ON THE URBAN SPRAWL AND ALL THAT STUFF. ITEM 163 KIND OF STATES THE POLICY, PROMOTES, ALLOWS, DESIGNATES FOR TO THE LIMIT, SUBSTANTIAL FOR THE JURISDICTION TO DEVELOPMENT, LOW-INTENSITY, LOW DENSITY OR SINGLE-USE THE ELEMENT OR USES

. >> OKAY.

>> STATING, WHICH THEN CURRICULA THAT, IT SAYS, STAFF

FINDING. >> RIGHT. IT SAYS THE SAME

THING. >> YOU KNOW? IT SAYS, SO, SINCE EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT I'M SAYING, A PARAGRAPH IN THIS REPORT ABOUT THE ANALYSIS REGARDING URBAN SPRAWL, FRANKLY, WHICH I DON'T CONSIDER THIS URBAN SPRAWL. IT IS AN IN-FILM. TO ME, THAT SHOULD BE THE END OF IT. IT IS NOT URBAN SPRAWL, BUT THERE'S -- SOMEBODY FELT THE NEED -- TO REPLY TO POLICY ONE, AND THE STAFF SAYS, THE PROPOSED FUTURE LAND USE CHANGE WOULD NOT CHANGE THE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT , OR THE DENSITY OF THAT DEVELOPED ALLOWED ON SUBJECT PARCEL. IT IS ALL THE PURPOSE OF THE APPLICATION, TO CHANGE

THE DENSITY. >> IT IS.

>> AGAIN. >> YES.

>> BUT -- >> TO ME, WHY IS IT EVEN IN

THERE? >> WELL, THESE CRITERIA ALL

COME FROM THE STATE. >> I GET THAT.

>> OH, WELL, SO -- >> IT IS NOT BEEN SPRAWL, THAT WOULD BE THE END OF THE CONVERSATION, BUT THE STATE THAT THIS APPLICATION DOES NOT CHANGE THE DENSITY OF THE DEPARTMENT, THAT IS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE APPLICATION.

>> CORRECT, BUT OKAY, I WAS LOOKING --

>> I AM NOT -- >> WHEN I ANSWERED THAT --

>> THAT DIDN'T REALLY -- >> RIGHT, BECAUSE WHEN IT FIRST CAME IN, YEAH, WE WERE LOOKING AT THE BASE DENSITIES, AND NOT GETTING INTO THE MATH OF WHAT THE BONUS MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT

ALLOW. >> OKAY.

>> THAT GOT ADDED IN, AND WE HAD MORE INFORMATION FROM THE DEVELOPERS -- WHEN THAT WAS FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD -- I TRIED TO GO BACK AND UPDATE, BUT I DIDN'T CATCH THAT

EITHER. >> YEAH.

>> KIND OF SEPARATE -- A BIGGER DISCUSSION ABOUT WHY EVEN BOTHER ANSWERING THE QUESTION?

>> WELL, IT IS CRITERIA WE HAVE TO EVALUATE. SO, THIS ISN'T REALLY A POLICY. IT IS MORE OF A QUESTION OF ASSESSMENT.

>> RIGHT . >> STAFF HAS TO ASSESS.

>> IT IS NOT URBAN SPRAWL. THAT IS ALL I NEED TO SAY, NOT URBAN

SPRAWL. ANYWAY -- >> ALL RIGHT. DO WE HAVE ANY

OTHER QUESTIONS? >> TRYING TO PROWL ON THE

PROMISE. >> FROM THE COMMISSION, IF WE MOVE ON? ALL RIGHT. AT THIS TIME, WE'LL HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT. ANYONE HERE -- YES -- HERE WE GO. AND WHEN YOU -- IF YOU WOULD PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF BY NAME, ALSO YOUR

ADDRESS -- BEFORE YOU BEGIN? >> MADAME CHAIR , THANK YOU SO MUCH. JOSH KOKKO, 25 NORTH MARKET STREET, JACKSONVILLE.

WANTED TO THANK YOU ALL, MADAME CHAIR, FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE BEFORE YOU AGAIN. SO GOOD TO SEE SO MANY OF YOU FAMILIAR FACES. AS WAS TOUCHED ON IN HER REPORT, THE -- I KNOW YOU MENTIONED THIS AS WELL, COMMISSIONER -- THIS CONVERSATION, THIS EVENING, THIS DISCUSSION, CENTERS AROUND A 6-ACRE PARCEL, NOT ABOUT PARCEL DIRECTLY TO THE WEST OF US THAT WE ALREADY HAVE ENTITLEMENT TO, WHICH IS THE PLAN, AND IT IS TO DEVELOP 45

[00:25:01]

DISCUSSION THIS EVENING CENTERS AROUND THE 6-ACRE PARCEL, WHICH IS OUR INTENT AND PLAN, TO REQUEST A LAND-USE CHANGE AS PART OF THE MASTER PLAN TO DEVELOP AN ADDITIONAL 7 HOUSES, WHICH WE CAN ALREADY DO 1 CURRENTLY, AS IT SITS , AND BY BEING ABLE TO DEVELOP THE PARTIAL, AS YOU SAW ON OUR SITE PLAN -- IF YOU GO BACK ON OUR CONCEPTUAL SITE PLAN -- IT DOES ALLOW US TO -- WHAT WE PLAN TO DO -- IS TO HAVE THE MAJORITY OF THESE LODGES ARE 80-FOOT LOT WITH SOME 60-FOOT LOTS, BUT A VAST MAJORITY WILL BE 80-FOOT LOT, SUCH AS HAVING LARGER HOMES IN THIS AREA, TO GOVERNMENT WHAT IS ALREADY THERE. WE WANT TO DO A RIGHT-SIDE TO DEVELOP AND IN THIS COMMUNITY -- A DEVELOPMENT THAT WILL HOPEFULLY SET THE STANDARD -- THIS COMMUNITY, OVER TIME HAS EVOLVED AND CHANGED. A 25 MILE AN HOUR ROADWAY. WE MET WITH TRAFFIC ENTERING EARLY ON WE FIRST STARTED LOOKING AT THE AREA, AND DIDN'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH COUNTY TRAFFIC ENGINEERING AT ALL. BUT, THIS AREA HAS CHANGED. THERE'S A LOT OF FAMILIES THAT HAVE LIVED IN THIS AREA FOR QUITE A LONG TIME. I SUSPECT SOME OF THEM ARE HERE THIS EVENING TO SHARE THEIR CONCERNS, OR THOUGHTS, ABOUT THE PROJECT AND THE ELEMENT, BUT IF YOU LOOK EPICALLY TO THE EAST OF US HERE, WE HAVE, DIRECTLY TO THE EAST, THE OUTER BELTWAY. THE OUTER BELTWAY IS OPEN IN THIS AREA, TREMENDOUSLY FOR DEPARTMENT, THAT WAS THE WHOLE INTENT, TO DO SO, NOT JUST TO MOVE CARS OFF SOME CROWDED ROADWAYS, BUT ALSO OPEN THE AREA OF FOR DEVELOP AND WRITE ON DOWN TRAIL RIDGE ROAD TO THE WEST OF US, WITH MAJOR, MAJOR SUBDIVISIONS. YOU HAVE THE TWIN CREEK SUBDIVISIONS, THE 624-ACRE DEVELOPMENT THAT WAS PUT IN RIGHT DOWN THE STREET. I'M NOT MISTAKEN, WE ALSO PINE RIDGE AS WELL WITH MAJOR DEVELOPERS. HERE, WE HAVE WHAT COMMISSIONER GARRISON STATED ALREADY, THIS WAS IN-PHILP IT INTO IN AN AREA THAT HAS CHANGED AND EVOLVED. WE ARE PLANNING TO DEVELOP A PRODUCT AND BUILD A PRODUCT HERE THAT IS GOING TO COMPLEMENT THE COMMERCIAL AND OFFICE DEVELOPMENT, THE AREA, THE TAX BASE OF THE AREA, AS WELL, A MULTIMILLION DOLLAR HOME SALE, FAMILY HOME, ADJACENT TO OUR PARTIAL HERE, I BELIEVE, HAS BEEN THERE SINCE 2008-2009. THE HOMEOWNER IN THAT AREA WAS A MENTOR OF MINE THAT I THOUGHT THE WORLD OF AND ALSO SERVED ON MY BOARD.THE COUNTY DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY. BUT, ADJACENT TO THE WEST OF US, AS WELL, BUT THIS WOULD COMPLEMENT THE AREA. LOOKING AT HOMES STARTING OUT AT MEDIAN PRICE, STARTING OUT AT $500,000 , JUST TO START OUT. THIS WOULD COMPLEMENT THE HOSPITALS IN THE AREA, AND THE OTHER INDUSTRIES THAT HAVE BEEN GROWING, NIAGARA, ET CETERA, SOME OF THE BUSINESSES YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH CONTINUING TO BLESS THE AREA, AND THE INDUSTRIES COMING IN THAT AREA, CHALLENGER WAY, I THINK, THE NAME OF THE ROADS. IN ADDITION, DO WE HAVE A NEED FOR DOCTORS TO HAVE HOUSING THAT'S ADEQUATE? THAT IS WITHIN THE PRICE RANGE, SOMETHING THAT IS LACKING IN THE COMMUNITY IN THIS AREA. WE NEED THIS KIND OF HOUSING FOR THOSE HIGHER-INCOME EARNERS. THIS WILL HELP FILL THAT NEED . AS MENTIONED, THERE IS WETLANDS IN THE REAR OF THE PARCEL. THOSE WILL BE PLACED IN CONSERVATION AND DUE DILIGENCE WILL BE CONDUCTED, AS MENTIONED . LET'S SEE. BY ADDING ADDITIONAL LOTS, THAT WILL REDUCE OUR INFRASTRUCTURE CALLS THROUGHOUT THE PROJECT , WHICH IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP THESE PRICES LOW, ALSO, TO KEEP LOT SIZES THAT WE WANT TO MAINTAIN AS 80-FOOT LOTS. I DO WANT TO TOUCH BASE WITH YOU REAL QUICK, AND I'M CURIOUS, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND TOUCHING ON, TODAY, BY RIGHT, BASED ON THE 45 LOTS OF THIS OR 45 HOMES WE CAN DO, CURRENTLY, ON PARCELS WE HAVE ENTITLED TO, WHAT CAN WE DO TODAY ON THESE, IF YOU DON'T MIND SHARING WITH US? DO YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION, OR HOW BIG OF A HOME ? CAN WE DO TOWNHOMES ON IT TODAY BY RIGHT OR SINGLE-FAMILY? WHAT CAN WE DO BY RIGHT, LOT SIZE, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION? IF YOU HAVE THAT INFORMATION. I JUST WANT TO STRESS THE IMPORTANCE OF WHY -- HAVING THIS AFTER PARTIAL IN THE REAR HERE -- KEEPING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE WHERE WE CAN KEEP THE MAJORITY 80-FOOT LOTS.

>> ALL RIGHT. RURAL SPRINGFIELD, RURAL SUBURBS ALLOWS A SINGLE-FAMILY OR MANUFACTURED HOMES, PUTTING CUSTOMER ACCESSORY USES. EXCUSE ME, MANUFACTURING HOMES ARE RIVETED IN CERTAIN SUBDIVISIONS. SO, SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES ONLY. THAT IS REALLY THE ONLY PRINCIPAL USE, ASIDE FROM PLACES OF WORSHIP , AND THEN --

>> THIS IS -- >> PUBLIC UTILITY SITES .

>> THIS IS THE 45 WE CAN DO TODAY?

>> CORRECT . YES. >> SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES INCLUDE

TOWNHOMES AT ALL? >> NO.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU FOR CLARIFICATIONS. THAT IS THE

[00:30:02]

COMMUNITY AS WELL. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. COCKRELL. AT THIS TIME, I'M GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC AREA, AND I BELIEVE, ALL THE CARDS I HAVE ARE FOR THIS ITEM. IS MS. STACY SPOONER HERE? IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO COME FORWARD AND GIVE US YOUR VIEWS ON THIS APPLICATION, AND HOLD THE MICROPHONE DOWN, YOU KNOW, TO WHERE IT PICKS YOU UP, AND IF YOU WOULD STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS BEFORE YOU BEGIN

YOUR REMARKS. >> MY NAME IS STACY SPOONER AND I LIVE AT 3546 TRAIL RIDGE ROAD. SO, OF COURSE, I AM ACROSS THE STREET , AND CATTY CORNER FROM WHERE THEY'RE BUILDING AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT.WE ENJOYED THE PROPERTY OVER THERE . ALL THE ANIMALS THAT WE HAVE IS ALL GOING TO STOP. THE TRAFFIC IS ALREADY BAD BECAUSE OF THE SUBDIVISION THAT WE HAVE DONE THERE, AND ADDING MORE HOMES TO THIS PROPERTY IS JUST GOING TO MAKE THINGS WORSE. I MEAN, IT IS JUST -- FOR THE BRENNAN FIELD MASTER PLAN RULES, SUBURBS DISTRICT ALLOWS 1 DWELLING UNIT PER ACRE WITH A LIMITED DENSITY BONUS PROGRAM POTENTIALLY ALLOWED , AND THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING 54 SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES ON 30 ACRES. WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT STAFF CAN SUPPORT THIS. IN ADDITION TO 54 SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES, THE APPLICANT IS REQUIRED TO PROVIDE FOR A STORM WATER POND , OPEN-SPACE AND BUFFERS . HOW MUCH OF THE 30-ACRES IS BEING DEDICATED FOR THESE? HAS THE LANDSCAPING PLAN BEEN APPROVED AS REQUIRED BY THE MASTER PLAN? HOW ARE THE TREES BEING PRESERVED AND/OR REPLACED? ARE THERE ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE LANDS ON THE 30 ACRES? HOW ARE THOSE LANDS BEING PRESERVED? AS A TRAFFIC STUDY BEEN PREPARED? HOW MUCH TRAFFIC WILL THIS PROJECT GENERATE? IS RIGHT-OF-WAY BEING DEDICATED TO THE COUNTY? WILL SEPTIC AND WELLS BE USED FOR EACH SINGLE-FAMILY HOME, OR IS THE APPLICANT REQUIRED TO CONNECT THE COUNTY UTILITIES? I AM DONE

. >> WELL, THANK YOU, MS. SPOONER . THE NEXT CARD I HAVE IS FOR LORI BICKERS . MS. BICKERS, PLEASE COME FORWARD, AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE

RECORD. >> MY NAME IS LORI BICKERS ,

3529 TRAIL RIDGE ROAD. >> MS. BICKERS , YOU MAY NEED TO ADJUST THAT MIC, BE CLOSER TO YOU SO WE HEAR YOU WELL.

>> MY NAME IS LORI BICKERS . >> THANK YOU.

>> I LIVE AT 3529 TRAIL RIDGE ROAD. WE ARE LITERALLY GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY THE 6 ACRES. IT IS GOING TO START AT OUR PROPERTY LINE AND FOLLOW THE BACKSIDE OF IT . SO, WHERE WE SEE NATURAL WORDS, DEAR COMING THROUGH, TURTLES IN AND OUT OF OUR FENCE LINE, WHERE WE HAVE JUST -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FLOODPLAIN IS -- BUT IT IS LIKE RANCH-STYLE, FOOT RAIL FENCE, WHERE WILDLIFE CAN STILL MOVE THROUGH. WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE OUR WILDLIFE. WE HAVE A MOTHER TO WITH TWO FUNDS COMING UP ON HER BACKYARD, SLEEPING IN THE BEDDING AT NIGHT. THE WILDLIFE TURTLES, THE HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE IN THE AREA ALREADY , THEY DON'T ABIDE BY THE SPEED LIMIT. 25 --

>> EXCUSE ME, JUST A MINUTE. WE ASK THAT YOU NOT MAKE AUDIBLE COMMENTS WHILE SOMEONE IS SPEAKING, SO WE CAN PICK UP EVERYTHING THEY HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU. PLEASE PROCEED.

>> 25 MILES AN HOUR , THEY'RE CONSTANTLY RADAR GUNS WHEN WE ARE DRIVING. SORRY FOR THE WAY I SAID IT , BUT WE RESPECT OUR WILDLIFE. WE RESPECT OUR OPEN LANDS, AND TO HAVE YOU SAY THAT

[00:35:05]

I KNOW WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT, BUT THE 6 ACRES, THAT IS OUR BACKYARD, LITERALLY, GONE. WE WON'T SEE NATURE ANYMORE, BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO BLOCK IT OFF. I'M SORRY. I DON'T DO THIS KIND OF STUFF. BUT, I HOPE YOU WILL CONSIDER DECLINING THE 6-ACRE PROPERTY, BECAUSE WE DON'T

WANT IT. >> THANK YOU, MS. BICKERS. NEXT PERSON I HAVE IS I RED CLOUD. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND

ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. >> IF SHE'S ME. I RED CLOUD, 35-27 TRAIL RIDGE ROAD , AND I WISH I KNEW ALL YOU GUYS' NAMES, BUT I DON'T, SO I WON'T INTEREST YOU INDIVIDUALLY. A PLEASURE TO BE HERE TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF FIVE FAMILIES OF MY FAMILY THAT LIVE ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY. THE ADDITIONAL 7 HOUSES MENTIONED ARE GOING TO BE ON MY BACKYARD, SO, IT IS VERY PERSONAL FOR ME. A COUPLE OF THINGS I WANT TO ADDRESS. ONE IS IN THE LETTER HERE THAT COMES FROM, I THINK, THE BIRD.PEOPLE. SAYS, THE APPLICANT AND TEAM HAVE ALSO MET WITH NEIGHBORS AND STAFF TO GAIN INFORMATION TO ENSURE A DESIRABLE SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD IS THE FINAL PRIVATE EVENT. THEY HAVE NEVER SPOKEN TO ANYONE ON ANY OF THE PROPERTY -- ANY OF THE PROPERTY -- ANY OF THE HOUSES THERE, EVER, NOT ONE TIME.IF THEY HAVE, WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING. HOWEVER, IT ALSO SAYS, THE STAFF DID AN INVESTIGATION FOR A TRAFFIC DEAL AT 10:00 A.M., AND TRAFFIC WAS SLOW WITH SMOKE. THAT IS LIKE GOING TO WALMART AND MINUTE AND SAYING, THERE'S ONLY 10 CARS IN THE BUSINESS AND NOT ENOUGH BUSINESS IN THE PARKING LOT. CARS ARE GOING 40 OR 50 MILES AN HOUR, THEY GO PAST US ALL THE TIME. I'M GETTING MY MAIL ON THE ROAD, AND THE GUY COMES BY ME, AND HE HAD TO BE DOING 40, AND HE LOOKED LIKE THIS. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? HE PUTS THE GAS. BECAUSE HE DOESN'T CARE. AND I HATE TO SAY THIS, WE BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY 30 YEARS AGO. WE BUILT OUR FAMILY, WE MADE A FAMILY COMPOUND , THE SPIRIT OF WHAT IT WAS THERE FOR, AND WE HAVE LIVED IN IT, MY GRANDCHILDREN GOT TO GROW UP, MAKING SAND CASTLES ON THEIR OWN ROAD WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT ANYBODY DRIVING OVER THE TOP OF THEM, AND WE ARE FIXING TO TOTALLY ELIMINATE THAT, AND I LOVE SEEING THE TURNKEY IN THE DEER IN MY BACKYARD. IF YOU LIVE ON MARKET STREET, DOWNTOWN KNOXVILLE, I USED TO LIVE IN DOWNTOWN JACKSONVILLE ON CHURCH STREET. I UNDERSTAND THAT IS WHERE HE MAKES HIS BUSINESS, BUT IF YOU HAVE NEVER LIVED ON THE PROPERTY, YOU CAN'T RESPECT IT, YOU CAN'T APPRECIATE IT. I LIVED ON BAY BRIDGE ROAD, HAD AN INSURANCE AGENCY FOR 25 YEARS, AND I LIVED ON BAY BRIDGE ROAD, WANTED TO GET OUT OF JACKSONVILLE, OFF THE BAY BRIDGE ROAD AND COME HERE. THAT IS WHAT WE GOT HERE. IT IS A DEAD END ROAD WHEN I BOUGHT IT. WHEN IT GOT WILL -- I TELL YOU -- APPRECIATE THE HARD ROAD, BUT NONE OF THE EXPENSES OF THEM GOING IN -- THERE'S GOT TO BE A STOP, A LIMIT. CAN'T BE 50,000 100,000 FOR YOUR PROPERTY, AND HAVE NO CONCERN OR REAL CONCERN FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE ON THE PROPERTY ADJACENT TO IT. THERE'S JUST ENOUGH. WANT TO GO BUILD IT? STOP INFRINGING ON OUR LIVES, LITERALLY, ON OUR LIVES, AND THERE'S ANOTHER THING HERE I WANT TO COVER REAL QUICK WITH YOU. IT MENTIONS THE 55TH BUFFER. YOU KNOW WHAT? I KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE 50-FOOT BUFFER. I'M SORRY.

I DIDN'T SEE THE YELLOW. OKAY. I KNOW THE 50-FOOT BUFFER IS NOT GOING TO BE A REALITY. AGAIN, THAT'S STILL NOT GOING TO TAKE THOSE SEVEN HOUSES OUT OF HER BACKYARD. THERE'S NO REASON FOR IT. LET ME SAY THIS LAST REMARK. IF THAT IS ONE OUT FOR FIVE ACRES, AND YOU ARE GOING TO ALLOW THE GUY WHO LIVES THERE TO SELL 6, HE HAS ONLY GOT FOUR ACRES NOW. SO, I'M JUST SAYING, THIS WHOLE THING HAS BEEN SHUT DOWN BEFORE. I READ HERE, WHERE, AT ONE TIME, THE COMMISSIONER AND OTHER COMMISSIONERS, I THINK THEY HAD COME, TRIED TO DO TOWNHOMES, THEY SAID, THEY TRIED TO DO A DUPLEX, AND NONE OF THESE ITEMS WERE SUPPORTED BY THE COMMISSIONERS OF THE PAST. I HOPE THAT THE COMMISSIONERS OF THE PRESENT WILL NOT SUPPORT THIS 6 ACRES. THANK YOU, FOLKS.

>> THANK YOU, MR. CLOUD. I HAVE ONE MORE CARD FOR MS. BABBITT DUKE. O, IT IS ON SOMETHING ELSE? OKAY. THANK YOU. IS THERE

[00:40:08]

RECORD, PLEASE? >> GOOD EVENING. MAX ANDREWS, BIRD-DOG, ADDRESSES 3948, JACKSONVILLE MAIN SUITE, WANTED 16. CONTRACT PURCHASERS FOR ALL THREE PROPERTIES BEING DISCUSSED, EVEN THOUGH WE JUST HAVE IS BUFFER -- HEARD A FEW QUESTIONS FROM NEIGHBORS -- WANTED TO ADDRESS THEM FOR YOU

ALL. SO, FIRST OFF, -- >> JUST A MINUTE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS DURING PUBLIC COMMENT.THE APPLICANT GETS A TURN TO RESPOND AFTER PUBLIC COMMENT . WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO

IT THAT WAY? >> DOES MR. COCKRELL AND MYSELF

GET TO RESPOND? >> YEAH. I MEAN, YES.

>> I AM UP HERE ALREADY, OKAY. WELL, GO AHEAD THEN. YES. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. BUT AT THIS POINT, THOUGH, IS THERE ANY OTHER MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WHO WANT TO SPEAK ON THIS MATTER? WE NEED TO MAKE SURE BEFORE -- BECAUSE I WILL GO AHEAD AND CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING IF EVERYBODY HAS BEEN HEARD, AND WE ARE GOING BACK TO THE APPLICANT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

I'M GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, AND THEN, WE WILL HEAR THE APPLICANT'S RESPONSE. PLEASE CONTINUE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THERE WAS A FEW QUESTIONS BROUGHT UP, AND I WILL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER THEM. THE FIRST OF WHICH, WILL HOMES BE ON THE WELL AND SEPTIC? FIRST OF ALL, NO, THEY WILL BE ON CENTRALIZED SEWER AND WATER, BOTH AVAILABLE WITHIN THE TRAIL RICH RIGHT-OF-WAY. NO SEPTIC TANK OUT HERE, ONLY WELLS. ANOTHER QUESTION WAS HOW EXACTLY DO WE GET TO THE BONUS DENSITY, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON WITH STAFF THE LAST FEW WEEKS, AND WE ACTUALLY CEMENTED THIS PLAN FOR THE DRC APPROVAL, A PRELIMINARY APPROVAL, OF COURSE, BUT WE HAVE IRONED OUT SOME OF THE BONUS DENSITY REQUIREMENTS. A FEW OF THOSE, BEING, ONE, THE WEAPONS THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY ARE NOT GOING TO IMPACT ANY WETLANDS. WE WILL ADD THEM TO THE CONSERVATION NETWORK FOR THE PC AND NETWORK .ANOTHER IS THE BUFFER EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT. IT IS OUR FULL INTENT TO MAKE A 50-FOOT BUFFER, UNDISTURBED, NATURAL VEGETATION. THAT IS WHAT THE CODE REQUIRES. IF YOU DO DISTURBED, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO DO A FENCE, AND ALL SORTS OF MEDITATION . QUITE HONESTLY, THAT IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE AND DOESN'T FIT THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO, WE WILL NOT BE DISTURBING THE 50-FOOT BUFFER AT THIS TIME, AND DUTY, HOPEFULLY, CAN CLARIFY THAT THAT IS WHAT WAS REFLECTED ON THE DRC PLAN. ANOTHER WAY THAT WE ACHIEVED THE BONUS DENSITY, OF COURSE, AN AMENITY CENTER.

WE WILL BE BUILDING THE AMENITY CENTER AS ONE OF THE BIG WAYS TO GET THE BONUS DENSITY. WE WILL HAVE TO, BY RIGHT, IN THE BFRS, THE CODE, BUILD A 750-SQUARE-FOOT AMENITY CENTER.

THESE ARE ALL REASONS WE ARE HOPING TO ADD THE 6 ACRES ON THE PROJECT. WE HAVE COSTS THAT DO NOT CHANGE , YOU KNOW, BASED ON THE NUMBER OF UNITS, ONE OF THOSE BEING THE AMENITY CENTER.

WON'T BE A LEGISLATION OFFICE A LIFT STATION -- FOR THE SEWER STATION. PROBABLY AROUND 400 OR $500,000 RIGHT THERE. THESE ARE ALL REASONS THAT WE HOPE TO ADD ON THE 6 ACRES AND THE ADDITIONAL UNITS.AS MR. COCKRELL SAID, WE WILL BE DOING THE 45 UNITS, REGARDLESS, AND I JUST HAD A QUESTION FOR YOU, I BELIEVE JOSH DID ASK -- WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT BONUS DENSITY AND RS -- AT A CERTAIN POINT, WE HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE NPC STANDARDS. IS THAT CORRECT?

>> CORRECT. THE PROJECT WILL FALL UNDER THE NPC'S VILLAGES

OWN STANDARDS. >> INVALID ZONE, THE MINIMUM LOT REQUIREMENT IS 15 FEET FOR TOWNHOMES. CORRECT?

>> WELL, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE DOING TOWNHOMES.

>> NO. I'M SAYING, BY RIGHT, THE 30 ACRES ALREADY HAS THE

ONUS? >> RIGHT. BUT IT DOESN'T ALLOW

TOWNHOMES. SO, -- >> THE WAY THAT I INTERPRETED THE VILLAGE CODE WAS 32-PUT A SINGLE-FAMILY LOTS OR 50-FOOT TOWNHOMES. THAT IS WHY I WANTED TO VERIFY.

>> ALL RIGHT. >> WE DON'T WANT TO DO TOWNHOMES. I'M JUST TRY TO UNDERSTAND, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH, AND THE ANSWER IS, YOU KNOW, GETTING CONFUSING. SO, I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND THERE.

>> IT IS A CONFUSING CODE, I FULLY UNDERSTAND. IT GETS COMPLICATED. ALMOST THERE. THANK YOU. YES. VILLAGE ZONE.

MINIMUM LOT SIZE IS 2700 SQUARE FEET FOR SINGLE-FAMILY DETACHED. MINIMUM LOT WIDTH , 32 FEET FOR SINGLE-FAMILY DETACHED. AND , THERE'S THE REQUIREMENT FOR A LONG-SIZED

[00:45:02]

>> YES. OUR INTENT IS TO DO A MAJORITY OF THE LOTS BEING 80-FOOT, BUT YOU KNOW, DUE TO THE CODE, WE HAVE TO VARY SOME, WHICH IS TYPICALLY 20 FEET , SO, BUT I THINK, REALLY, THE BREAKDOWN IS 2/3 OF THEM WILL BE ABOUT 80 FEET, AND 1/2, 60 FEET, BUT THE POINT BEING THAT, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE TO MAKE UP THE DEVELOPMENT COSTS SOMEWHERE BECAUSE WE HAVE SUCH A SMALL UNIT COUNT, WE DON'T WANT TO DO 32-FOOT-WIDE SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES, BUT BY RIGHT, WE CAN'T. SO, THESE ARE ALSO THE REASONS WE REALLY HOPE THE 6 ACRES CAN GET APPROVED TO HELP SPREAD OUT OUR DEVELOPMENT COSTS , AND I SAY, GET THE DEVELOPING COST DOWN, STILL, BY NO MEANS, CHEAP HOMES. AS MR. GARFIELD STATED, THERE WAS.I BASICALLY $500,000 RANGE, GOING UP FROM THERE. AS FAR AS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, TRAFFIC -- I WISH RICHARD SMITH WAS HERE I KNOW, SOMETIME -- SOMETIMES, HE ATTENDS THESE.

WE MET WITH RICHARD , YOU KNOW, HE SAID THAT IT IS A 25 MILE AN HOUR ROAD, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS SHOULD NOT ADD TO THAT AT ALL , AND, OBVIOUSLY, IN THE CODE, IF THIS GETS APPROVED, GO OVER THE 50 UNITS, WE HAVE TO DO A TRAFFIC STOP AND HAVE TO FOLLOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE TRAFFIC STUDY SAYS , SO, IF WE GET THIS APPROVED OVER 50 UNITS, WE WILL DO A TRAFFIC STUDY. THEY SAY, WE NEED A RIGHT-HAND TURN LANE, WE HAVE TO DO IT IN THERE. THESE ARE ALL THINGS WE ARE PREPARED TO DO, AND ANOTHER COMMENT WAS MADE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE NEIGHBORS, MEETING WITH THE NEIGHBORS. WE HAVE HAD MULTIPLE CONVERSATIONS WITH MRS. CLAREY, WHO IS THE LANDOWNER. SHE HAS FOUR COURSES, I BELIEVE, TO THE WEST OF US, AND WE ALSO HAVE OUR SIGNOUT ON EVERY SINGLE PROJECT THAT WE DO, OUR TELEPHONE NUMBER WITH OUR DOG SIGN. WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY CALLS. ACTUALLY, WE HAVE RECEIVED CALLS REGARDING THIS PROJECT, AND IT WAS PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN TWO CREEKS AND PINE RIDGE ASKING HOW MUCH IT.WOULD COST AND IF THEY COULD BUY SOME, BUT WE ALSO MET WITH COMMISSIONER CONDREY ABOUT A WEEK AND HALF AGO. AT HER REQUEST, WE ARE GOING TO DO A COMMUNITY MEETING FOR THIS BEFORE IT GOES IN FRONT OF THE OCC LATER IN THE MONTH. OBVIOUSLY, WITH THE WEEKEND HAVE NOTICED, WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND A VENUE FOR THAT AT THIS TIME, BUT THAT WILL HAPPEN BEFORE WE GO IN FRONT OF THE OCC. SO, I HOPE I ANSWERED SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT THE RESIDENT HAD, AND IF YOU ALL HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM. IF NOT, I WILL BE FOR TO

JOSH. >> ANY --

>> QUESTION. I'M SORRY -- MRS. CLAREY IS IN HERE THIS EVENING.

I KNOW MRS. CLAREY. CAN YOU SHARE THE COMMENTS YOU MADE? WE KNOW THE OTHER RESIDENTS HERE. SHE HAS A PRETTY LARGE PARCEL.

>> I WILL LET JOSH TOUCH ON THAT AS MY PARTNER, JOSH, AT THE MULTIPLE INTERACTIONS WITH MRS. CLAREY .

>> SO -- >> IF I CALL HER ON THE PHONE AND SHE TOLD ME SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN YOU ARE TELLING

ME -- >> RIGHT. AGAIN, THAT IS WHY I WILL LET JOSH ANSWER. LOST IN TRANSITION, HE SAID THIS, SHE SAID THAT, NEXT THING YOU KNOW, IT TURNS INTO SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I WON'T EVEN ATTEMPT.

>> THAT IS FINE. >> COMMISSIONER?

>> I HAVE A QUESTION. IT REALLY DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY HAVE TO DO WITH THE LAND-USE, BUT IT IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE TALKING POINTS. IF YOU WERE HERE, YOU WOULD KNOW THIS. YOU SAID , YOU HAVE SPOKEN TO THE LANDOWNER TO THE WEST . I GUESS, WITH THE INTENT OF SOMEDAY MAY BE PURCHASING THAT PROPERTY, OR WHATEVER, I AM NOT A FAN OF CULDESACS. EVERY TIME WE GET ONE OF THESE SMALL ELEMENTS LIKE THIS , IT IS NOTHING BUT CUL-DE-SACS , AND I THINK WE CREATE PROBLEMS. THE LAND TO THE EAST IS PROBABLY GOING TO REMAIN LARGE LOTS, BECAUSE OF THE ZONE, OR THE LAND-USE TO THE WEST THAT IS ALREADY RURAL SUBURBS. THOSE TWO CUL-DE-SACS THAT YOU HAVE GOT ON THE PRELIMINARY PLAN SHOULD BE STUFF-OUTS TO THE PROPERTY

LINE. >> SO -- DODI , DO YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE THE OTHER, RECENT PLAN THAT WE SUBMITTED?

>> I DON'T. THAT IS IN DRC . >> I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY SHOULD BE PAVED TO THE PROPERTY LINE . THE PROPERTY SHOULD BE RESERVED SO THAT WHEN THOSE LOTS TO THE WEST GET DEVELOPED, YOU CAN INTERCONNECT THE NEIGHBORHOODS, AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE NOT DOING IN THIS COUNTY. WE ARE BUILDING LITTLE, TINY SUBDIVISIONS, AND WE'RE NOT CONNECTING THEM, AND WE END UP DRIVING ALL THE TRAFFIC OUT ONTO THE ONE ROAD.

>> WELL, THE PLAN HAD TO BE REVISED, BECAUSE THERE WAS A REQUIREMENT FOR CONNECTIVITY INDEX, WHICH I WILL BORE YOU WITH THE DETAILS ON, BUT IN ORDER TO MEET THAT INDEX , 1.2,

[00:50:03]

>> IT TAKES CARE OF THAT PROBLEM, BUT THE ISSUE THAT I HAVE IS WE'RE NOT PROVIDING -- LAKE ASBURY -- WE MAKE THEM PROVIDE FOR INTERCONNECTIVITY TO THE NEXT DEVELOPMENT. WE SHOULD BE DOING THAT ON ALL OF THESE. EVEN THE SMALL ONES.

LIKE I SAY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUILD THE ROAD TO THE PROPERTY LINE, BUT THE RIGHT-OF-WAY NEEDS TO BE THERE. IF SOMEONE GETS THOSE NEXT LOTS OVER AND WANTS TO DEVELOP THEM, THEY HAVE GOT SOME WORK TO CONNECT TO THESE STREETS. WE START HOLDING A NETWORK OF STREETS, GET AWAY FROM THIS IDEA THAT EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD WE BUILT IS A CUL-DE-SAC. YOU KNOW? THIS COUNTY, WE MADE A SERIOUS PROBLEM UP THERE, THAT'S JUST HOW IT GOES. THERE BY ARKOE, LONGEST CUL-DE-SAC IN THE STATE EXCEPT FOR KEY WEST. SO, IT DOESN'T APPLY TO THE LAND-USE, AGREE TO THAT, BUT WHEN THIS GETS IN DESIGN REVIEW, I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE STAFF TO FIX THAT PROBLEM.

>> IF I MAY, COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER, THIS IS SOMETHING WE WERE KELLY ON THE LAST APPROVAL, IF YOU MAY RECALL, WE CAN BEFORE YOU A SECOND TIME ON THE OLD JENNINGS PROJECT, IF YOU MAY RECALL. WE APPRECIATE ALL'S SUPPORT ON THAT.OUR FINAL APPROVAL THROUGH THE COMMISSION, WE DID ADDRESS THIS -- ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS BROUGHT IT UP -- WHAT WE DID ON THAT ONE IS WE HAD A FINAL SITE PLAN WE PRESENTED, HAD AN ADDITIONAL PIECE TO IT, AND YOU ENTERED TO THE LEFT OF IT . WE HAD A STUB-OUT, IF YOU WILL, TO GO WITH THE PARCELS TO THE WEST OF US, GET DEVELOPED, BUILT INTO THAT INTERCONNECTIVITY COMPONENT, SO, HOPEFULLY, WE'LL HAVE NUMEROUS DRIVEWAYS GOING DOWN ONE ROAD, SO THERE'S NEVER THAT -- IF YOU WILL -- THAT IS SOMETHING WE WILL TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION PROVIDES WANTED TO MENTION, THIS IS NOT A CONCEPTUAL PLAN. THERE'S OTHER ITERATIONS, AS DODI MENTIONED, THERE'S ANOTHER ONE ALREADY. BUT, IN HONORING THE NATURE OF US HAVING TO HAVE A 50-FOOT BUFFER, GOING BACK TO -- I KNOW MS. CLAREY WELL -- MR. CLAREY WAS MY LONGTIME MENTOR. I WAS ONE OF TWO THEY GAVE HIS EULOGY. HE IS A GREAT, ALL-TIME FRIEND OF MINE, SOMEONE I DEEPLY RESPECTED, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, AND MS. CLAREY WAS SOMEONE SET WITH A COUPLE OF TIMES, ACTUALLY, WITH EARLY CONVERSATION ON THIS PROJECT. I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR HER.

IF SHE WAS HERE, I WOULD ASK HER TO BE HERE TO SPEAK FOR HERSELF. ALL SHE BUILT ON THIS ROAD AT A TIME WHEN THERE WAS NOT AS MUCH INTEREST BEFORE THE BUILD CAME IN, SHE WAS INSPECTING SOME NEIGHBORS HERE FOR THE AREA TO HAVE A QUIETER WAY OF LIFE. SHE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT MAINTAINED THAT WAY.

HOWEVER, SHE DOES UNDERSTAND IN OUR CONVERSATIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE IS NOW SANDWICHED BETWEEN A BELTWAY AND A LARGE SUBDIVISION TO THE WEST. THINGS ARE CHANGING. TIMES ARE EVOLVING. I AM NOT HERE TO SPEAK WITH HER. SHE IS NOT GARNERING HER SUPPORT FOR THIS OR AGAINST THIS. I AM NOT GOING TO SPEAK FOR THAT ONE OR THE OTHER, BUT I KNOW IF SHE HAD HER WAY, YOU KNOW, FROM MY CONVERSATIONS, SHE WOULD PROBABLY LIKE TO SEE IT STAY THE WAY IT WAS WHEN IT WAS BUILT, LIKE MANY OF THE RESIDENTS HERE. THAT IS ALL OF THIS HECK -- THE LAST FOUR YEARS, THE COUNTY HAS SEEN A TREMENDOUS GROWTH OF PEOPLE, AS YOU GUYS HAVE. YOU KNOW, NORTHERNERS MOVING DOWN HERE IN FLUX. SO, HERE WE ARE. YOU KNOW? SCENE JOHNS IS TOO EXPENSIVE SO, EVERYBODY COMES HERE WITH WAITING FOR INTEREST RATES TO GO DOWN -- TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION -- YES, I WORK IN DOWNTOWN JACKSONVILLE, WORKED NORTH SIDE, BUT THAT GOT IT, WHEN THE INTEREST RATES GO DOWN -- DOWN, SIR, IF I MAY -- FOR A LONG TIME -- I CAN'T WAIT -- UNDERSTAND A CONCERN. I HEAR YOUR CONCERNS. SOME OF YOU IN THE AUDIENCE, THE SPEED LIMIT, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING WE CAN ADDRESS. NOT A MATTER WE CAN ADDRESS, UNFORTUNATELY, THIS LADY'S APPLICATION CAN ADDRESS, 25--MILE-AN-HOUR ROAD, SLOWEST ROADS WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTY. YOU KNOW, AS MENTIONED, TRAFFIC STUDY, OTHERWISE, NOT WANTED, EVEN FOR A 45, SHOULD THIS GET APPROVED. WE WILL NEED TO DO A TRAFFIC STUDY, TRAFFIC AND ENGINEER REGISTERED AND STATED HE WAS A CONCERN ABOUT THE TRAFFIC ON THIS ROAD TO DATE, BUT TRAFFIC STUDY WILL BE WANTED SHOULD THIS GET APPROVED OTHERWISE BUT AS FOR THE NATURE OF CONCERNS, I MEAN, WE'LL HAVE NATURE OF THE BACKYARD, THINGS ARE CHANGING. I SHARE CONCERNS WITH THAT AS WELL, BUT

[00:55:01]

YOU SO MUCH. >> MR. COCKRELL, ONE THING I

CAN ASSURE LIPID >> YES?

>> I HAD A COUPLE OF OTHER QUICK QUESTIONS. THE BUFFER ?

>> YES, SIR? >> ARE YOU PLANNING ON LEAVING THE EXISTING VEGETATION THERE NOW ?

>> YES. >> SO, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE SURVEYORS MARK THAT OFF, AND WHEN THEY CIRCLE THOSE, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TOUCH THE BUFFER?

>> WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE FRONT. MOST LIKELY, WE WILL DO , YOU KNOW, SOME SORT OF FARMHOUSE-STYLE FENCE, AND DO MORE HIGH-END LANDSCAPING. AS FAR AS THE PERIMETER BUFFER ON THE SIDES OF THE PROPERTY, IT IS NOW OUR INTENT TO LEAVE IT

UNDISTURBED 50-FEET WIDE. >> ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE TO FILL THIS PROPERTY TO GET THE ELEVATIONS YOU NEED?

>> NO, SIR. I AM NOT AN ENGINEER. I CANNOT GIVE YOU 100% CONFIDENCE IN MY ANSWER, BUT NO, THIS PROPERTY HAS A NATURAL TYPOGRAPHY THE KIND OF DROPS OFF TO THE BACK.

NATURALLY, THAT IS THE LOWEST SPOT THAT HAS BUILT UPON, AND THERE'S NO FILLING OF THE ACTUAL REST OF THE PROPERTY, ESSENTIALLY, JUST CUTTING THE ROADS IN THE EXISTING AREAS.

>> AND THE AREA HERE IS RICH IN SANDS THAT HAVE BEEN USED FOR

YEARS, DIGGING OUT. >> YEAH. THE OTHER THING IS, AND THIS MIGHT BE A STAFF QUESTION, BUT IS THERE ANY REQUIREMENT THAT THEY PUT A SIDEWALK DOWN TRAIL ROAD -- TRAIL RIDGE -- IN FRONT OF THIS? IT IS ALREADY THERE?

OKAY. I DON'T HAVE ANY -- >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

>> I HAVE A QUESTION. ONE IF YOU GUYS MENTIONED, BEING THE DRC PROCESS -- OR YOU HAVE A DRC PACKAGE -- HAVE Y'ALL BEEN

TO DRC ALREADY? >> YES, WE HAVE.

>> I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THAT. WHICH DEVELOPMENT, WITH OR

WITHOUT THE 6 ACRES? >> WITH THE 6 ACRES, CONTINGENT

UPON -- >> OKAY. SO, THERE ARE FLASHING RED LIGHT, WHICH MEANS YOU NEED TO BE IN THE MICROPHONE SO THEY CAN HEAR YOUR RESPONSE AND RECORD IT .

>> YEAH. AND SO, WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE VERY FIRST ROUNDS, JUST A PRELIMINARY DRC TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR ROUGH CALCULATIONS ARE CORRECT, AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS, YOU KNOW, CONTINGENT ON THE 6 ACRES, THEY ARE A 53 AND 6 ACRES THAT DOESN'T GO THROUGH, AND THEY JUST ARE FOR THE 45.

>> OKAY. THEN, REGARDING THE 50-FOOT BUFFER, THERE'S AN ALLOWANCE IN HERE TO REDUCE IT TO 35 FEET GIVEN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. YOU JUST MADE THE STATEMENT THAT YOU WERE GOING TO LEAVE IT AT 50 FEET. YOU WANT TO SAY THAT? YOU ARE GOING TO LEAVE THE BUFFER AT 50 FEET?

>> YES. AGAIN, OUR INTENT ON THE SIDE IS TO LEAVE IT AS

50-FOOT. >> RIGHT. THE SIDES AND THE

BACK. >> THE FRONT, THEY WILL HAVE A

HIGHER-END WINDOW. >> I GET THAT. ON THE FRONT.

>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. ARE WE READY TO BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION AND A MOTION? LOOKS LIKE WE ARE.

>> ONE MORE QUESTION . >> YES?

>> ARE YOU PLANNING TO LEAVE , OR ARE YOU PLANNING TO JUST, LIKE -- GET RID OF ALL OF THE VEGETATION, ALL THE TREES THAT ARE IN THERE? PLANNING TO LEAVE ANY TREES AS PART OF THE AMBIENCE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD? OTHER THAN WHAT THE BUFFER IS

ON THE OUTSIDE? >> RIGHT. AGAIN, THAT -- I WISH OUR ENGINEER WAS HERE -- TYPICALLY, HE COMES TO THESE THINGS. THAT IS A BETTER QUESTION FOR THE ENGINEERING TEAM. WHERE THE LOTS THEMSELVES WILL BE --

>> THAT IS UNDERSTOOD. >> BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT THE REST OF THE GREEN AREA YOU HAVE THERE.

>> RIGHT. IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHERE THE SEASONAL HIGH WATER LINE IS, BASICALLY, AND IF WE CAN CUT THE ROAD IN, HAVE TO FILL THE ROAD A LITTLE BIT. OBVIOUSLY, IF WE HAVE TO FILL A FOOT AROUND EXISTING TREES, YOU KNOW, IT WILL LIKELY KILL THEM AND WE'LL HAVE TO REPLANT. I SAY, WE REALLY PLANT ON ALL THE LOTS WE CLEAR -- THE IDEA IS, IN 20 OR 30 YEARS, JUST AS BEAUTIFUL AS IT WAS THE DAY THAT WE WENT IN AND DISTURBED

THE LAND. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ARE WE READY TO MOVE BACK TO THE COMMISSION? DISCUSSION? MOTION?

[01:00:03]

>> I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION IF I MAY, MADAME CHAIR. DODI, THERE WAS A COMMENT MADE THAT THE EXISTING LANDOWNER , AFTER THIS PARCEL IS BROKEN INTO TWO, WILL ONLY RETAIN 4.5 ACRES . DOES THAT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS? HOW ARE THEY ABLE TO DO THAT WITH

ONE UNIT PER FIVE ACRES? >> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE SURVEY. LET'S VERIFY -- TAKE A LOOK AT THAT -- IT WAS A CONCEPTUAL PLAN. AND SO, GOING TO NEED THE FINALIZED DATA.

>> IS IT SAFE TO SAY, IF THIS WAS APPROVED, THAT CURRENT OWNER WOULD HAVE TO RETAIN FIVE ACRES?

>> I BELIEVE SO. THERE'S OWNERS? YES?

>> THAT IS A IMPORTANT QUESTION.

>> YES. >> FROM PERSONAL SPIRITS, TRYING TO BUY SOME LAND ONE TIME, YOU CANNOT CREATE A

NONCONFORMING USE . >> VERY GOOD POINT.

>> WHOEVER CAUGHT THAT . >> MADAME ATTORNEY, COULD WE HAVE YOU WEIGH IN ON THIS FOR JUST A MOMENT?

>> MAY I TOUCH QUICKLY ON IT? >> GIVE ME ONE SECOND. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE ATTORNEY SHARE WITH US. MY PROBABLY NEED BETH TO WEIGH IN ON IT. I THINK THAT IF THEY COULD BECOME A NONCONFORMING LOT, THEN THEY WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO BUILD ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE FOOTPRINT OF WHAT THE HOUSE SAID, AND IF IT IS BURNED BACK, COULD THEY BUILD BACK TO THE

FOOTPRINT, OR NO? >> IN FACT, WE COULD MOVE IT A FOREIGN HALF-ACRE, KNOWING IT IS NONCONFORMING. OKAY. DID YOU

HAVE A COMMENT? >> THE SUBDIVISION --

>> IF IT WAS PLANTED WITHIN THE SUBDIVISION.

>> THE APPLICANT -- >> OR, WORST CASE SCENARIO, WE WILL GET IT TO MAKE THEM CONFORM.

>> OKAY. SO, IS THERE AN INTENT -- THANK YOU -- IS THERE AN INTENT TO ADD THIS AS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE PLANT, OR IS THIS GOING TO STAND ALONE ?

>> THE IDEA, OBVIOUSLY, IS THAT IT IS GOING TO RETAIN THE CHARACTER AND EXACT ENTRANCE OF THIS IT WILL NOT HAVE AN ENTRANCE OFF THE DEVELOPMENT. IF IT BECOMES A NONCONFORMING LOT, WE WILL DO WHATEVER WE NEED TO DO TO MAKE IT . YOU KNOW, REDUCING OUR SCALE BACK FROM 6 ACRES TO 5 1/2 .

>> OKAY. BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ZONING AND THE FLUME, AND THESE -- EXCUSE ME -- THIS 6 ACRES AND NOT TRAFFIC -- BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY APPLY TO THIS BODY -- WE DON'T CONCERN OURSELVES WITH TRAFFIC . THAT IS THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. WE DON'T CONCERN OURSELVES WITH ANIMALS -- THIS IS PLANNING AND ZONING. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE . IN THAT CASE, THIS CONFORMS. IN MY OPINION, BECAUSE OF THE TWO PARCELS ADJACENT TO IT, THE 20 AND 10 ACRES. BECAUSE OF THAT, THAT IS STAFF'S REPORT.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE.

>> I WILL SECOND ADJUST FOR DISCUSSION. I DIDN'T GET AN ANSWER TO MR. BOURRE'S QUESTION, THE , IS THIS, OR IS THIS NOT -- THE QUESTION WAS THE PARCEL , FOR FOR 5 ACRES THAT THE CURRENT OWNER IS RETAINING . ARE YOU GOING TO PLANT THAT AS PART OF YOUR SUBDIVISION OR NOT?

>> NO. OUR INTENT IS NOT TO INCLUDE THE EXISTING PARTIAL IN THE SUBDIVISION. UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, IT APPEARS IT WILL BECOME NONCONFORMING DUE TO OUR ACTIONS , BUT WE WILL DO ANYTHING IN OUR POWER TO MAKE IT CONFORM . IT IS SCALING BACK

1/2-ACRE. >> THANK YOU. YEAH. TO MR. BARRE'S WON , HERE IS WHERE THE PROBLEM COMES IN. YOU GUYS WILL REMEMBER -- I'M GLAD YOU PICKED UP ON THIS -- IT BLEW BY ME -- A FEW MONTHS AGO, WE HAD A PARTIAL ALL ALONG BAY ROAD THAT WE LOOKED AT REZONING BECAUSE SOMEBODY HAD SUBDIVIDED THAT PARCEL AND DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THE LAND-USE WAS OUT THERE , AND PEOPLE BOUGHT A LOT , THEY WERE UNABLE TO BUILD ON IT -- REMEMBER? SO, I'M A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THIS, BECAUSE , REGARDLESS OF THE CURRENT OWNER, LIKE, I DON'T CARE IF IT IS NONCONFORMING, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, AT SOME POINT, THAT LOT IS GOING TO CHANGE HANDS AND

[01:05:02]

I AM GLAD TO SEE THEY WANT TO DO BETTER LOTS. WHAT WE'RE SAYING, END UP VOTING NO, BUT IT IS A SOFT NO, BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME ISSUES THAT I THINK ARE STILL NOT CLEAR TO ME .

>> MADAME CHAIR, IF I MAY FOR A SECOND, I WOULD LIKE TO AMEND MY MOTION TO CLARIFY. AGAIN, TO MOVE TO APPROVE STAFF'S REPORT, SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT CREATE A NONCONFORMING ONE .

EITHER THEY WOULD HAVE TO BRING THIS TO FIVE ACRES OR BRING IT INTO SUBDIVISION AS A PLATTED LOT.

>> I WILL AGREE WITH THAT . >> FOR THE DISCUSSION?

>> MOTION. >> GO AHEAD, PETE.

>>

>> THEM HERE. LISTENING TO THE DISCUSSION BACK AND FORTH, IN MY OPINION, WE HAVE A COUPLE BUBBLES ON THE TABLE THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE VOTING ON THAT ARE RESOLVED. ONE, THEY PLAN A MEETING WITH THE RESIDENTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AROUND THERE, HAVE A DISCUSSION. I CAN'T BASE A DECISION BASED ON A PROMISE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH OTHER PEOPLE. THE OTHER THING, TOO, WE BROUGHT UP THE ISSUE OF CULDESAC, CULDESAC, CULDESAC . DO THEY HAVE SOMETHING IN DESIGN REVIEW TO MODIFY THAT? WE ARE PENDING ON VOTING AND APPROVING SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T SEEN . NOW, WHERE WE GO FROM HERE, I DON'T KNOW, UNLESS WE WANT TO TABLE THIS UNTIL NEXT TIME .

>> COMMISSIONER? >> WE DON'T DESIGN SUBDIVISIONS IN THIS BODY. THAT IS NOT WHAT WE DO.

>> THAT IS UNDERSTOOD. THE QUESTION BROUGHT UP HERE -- THE RESIDENTS WOULD PROBABLY BE HIGHLY INTERESTED IN THAT INFORMATION, WOULD WANT LESS AGAINST IT IF THEY SAW THAT ON PAPER, AS OPPOSED TO -- SITE PLAN, I'M VOTING ON WHAT YOU ALL HAVE TOLD US.

>>EXCUSE ME, THERE HAS BEEN A SIDE CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE AGENT AND COUNTY ATTORNEY, AND I'M NOT SURE --

>> I RECOGNIZE WHAT THEY CAN DO NOW , THEY CAN DO WITH A VALID PERMIT, LET AGO. I RECOGNIZE IT WOULD AT 6 ACRES TO THIS, WHICH MY GUT FEELING IS IT IS PROBABLY A PRETTY GOOD DEAL, ESPECIALLY WITH A 50-FOOT BUFFER. I CAME FROM AN ISLAND WHERE A 50-FOOT BUFFER WAS UNHEARD OF. IT WAS ANYTHING WE CAN GET OTHER THAN ZERO LOT LINES. THIS DEVELOPMENT OF THE AREA WILL HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT WE DO HERE, AND I'M TRYING TO GET AS MUCH ON PAPER AS WE POSSIBLY CAN BEFORE WE STACCATO

IN IT. THAT IS ALL . >> I WILL MAKE A COMMENT ALSO.

I KNOW WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER ANY OF THAT AT ALL, BUT I THINK , TO RALPH'S POINT AND MICHAEL'S COMMENT, PART OF THE PLANNING, I THINK, THAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THESE TYPES OF SUBDIVISIONS THAT ARE GOING TO JUST BE CUL-DE-SACS, I THINK THAT HAS TO BE A PLANNING CONVERSATION, YOU KNOW, AND I

WOULD SUPPORT THAT. >> COMMISSIONER BOURRE?

>> I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR STAFF, BUT I HAVE MET WITH STAFF SEVERAL TIMES OVER MY YEARS OF BEING ON THIS COMMISSION, AND THE INTERCONNECTIVITY IS A REQUIREMENT, AND IN ALL THE DEVELOPMENT'S. I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR THE APPLICANT, BUT THIS IS A CONCEPT, A RENDERING, NOT AN APPROVED PLAN. SO, THE COUNTY REQUIRES INTERCONNECTIVI

[01:10:05]

>> JUST TO SAY , YOU ARE CORRECT, WE'LL BE LOOKING FURTHER IN THE DEVELOPMENT PLANS, WHEN THEY COME INTO ACTUAL PLAN REVIEW, AND IT IS STILL A CONCEPTUAL DRC STAGE.

SO, WE'LL BE LOOKING AT ALL OF THOSE THINGS .

>> I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR US IF WE SAW SOMETHING WE CAN WRAP OUR EYES AND BRAINS AROUND TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE PLAN AS FAR AS KICKING THE SOUND AND CONTINUING THAT ROADWAY THROUGH THE NEXT DEPARTMENT TO POTENTIALLY BE DEVELOPED NEXT TO IT TO SO WE DON'T SEE THAT .

>> MADAME CHAIR? I WANT TO HEAR FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD. IS THERE CAPACITY? THIS IS TIMES ELEMENTARY, RIGHT?

>> GLAD YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION. THAT SUBDIVISION, 7 MORONS, 2, JY, 1/2 -- BASICALLY -- TIME ZONE .

THE LEVEL OF SERVICE. AS RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE CAPACITY.

WILKINSON JR. HIGH SCHOOL DOES NOT HAVE CAPACITY. HOWEVER, WHEN I AM DOING CONCURRENCY, I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CONTINUOUS

ONES TOO. >> WILKINSON?

>> GO AHEAD . >> I JUST HAD A GENERAL COMMENT I GUESS. I WOULD BE INCLINED TO SUPPORT THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT IN WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE AN IN-FILL AREA. THERE IS THAT ELEMENT ALL AROUND IT THERE ARE INFRASTRUCTURES THERE, CAPACITIES AT THE SCHOOLS. SO, MY GENERAL INCLINATION WOULD BE TO SUPPORT IT. I DO -- THIS CAME FROM THE CITIZEN SIDE OF THIS -- THANK YOU, AGAIN, THE CHAIR SAID, THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE -- THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T DO IT REGULARLY MAKES IT THAT MUCH MORE MOVING WHEN YOU COME UP HERE AND TALK ABOUT IT. HOWEVER, THE FACT THAT SOMEBODY DOESN'T LIKE , YOU KNOW, EIGHT THAT ELEMENT IS NOT A REASON FOR ME, PERSONALLY. I HEAR YOU AND FEEL SORRY FOR IT, BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT I BASE MY DECISION ON. I BASE MY DECISION ON THE FACT , IT IS A BOOMING COUNTY, THIS AREA HAS BEEN SLATED FOR DEVELOPMENT, THERE'S A MULTIBILLION-DOLLAR INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THE FIRST EXPRESSWAY. ALL OF THOSE THINGS , THAT IS WHAT I SAY, OKAY, THIS MAKES GOOD SENSE TO ME.

HOWEVER, I DO THINK THAT DEVELOPERS WOULD ALWAYS -- THAT IS WHY WE HAVE THE CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE PROCESS -- IS TO GO AND MEET WITH THE NEIGHBORS, AND MEET WITH MS. CLAREY TO TALK ABOUT THIS DEVELOPMENT , AND THAT DOESN'T CUT IT . SO, I AM INCLINED TO SUPPORT IT ONCE THE DEVELOPER HAS MOVED WITH THE APPLICANT WE SENT HERE LAST MEETING FOR HOURS AND LISTENED TO A LOT OF PEOPLE COME UP , SORT OF SIMILAR. I THINK THE OTHER PROJECT HAD EVEN MORE REASON TO PASS IT, AND I VOTED TO SUPPORT IT, AND HE GOT TO THE BCC AND GOT DENIED BECAUSE IT WAS STRONG, VOCAL OPPOSITION FROM THE RESIDENTS . SO, TO THE COUNTY OR ANYBODY WHO CARES, WE ARE AN EXPLODING COUNTY, AND WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT , IF EVERY TIME A DEVELOPER GOES IN, WE HAVE PUT IN SEWER AND WATER, PUT IN A ROADWAY, PUT IN SCHOOLS, DEVELOPED THE SYSTEM THAT REQUIRES IMPACT FEES TO FUND NEW FIRE STAGES, -- STATIONS -- IF YOU DON'T HAVE DEVELOPMENT, YOU NEED THE FIRE STATIONS NOW WHETHER THIS SUBDIVISION GOES UP OR NOT. I DON'T KNOW. IT IS PROBABLY AN ONGOING THING RARELY SOLD -- BUT FOR US, IS A GOVERNMENT TO WRAP OUR HEAD AROUND THIS DEVELOPMENT -- AND THE IDEA THAT HE CAN'T BASE HIS JUDGMENT ON WHATEVER HE WANTS TO BASE HIS JUDGMENT ON, TO ME, IS WRONG. HE CAN BASE HIS JUDGMENT ON WHATEVER HE WANTS TO. IF IT WERE AS BLACK AND WHITE AS WE NEED THIS BODY, WE CAN GO FILL OUT AN APPLICATION, CHECK OUT A FEW BOXES, FILL OUT THE SUBDIVISION. WE RECOMMEND TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSION, BASED ON OUR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND OUR OWN PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL THOUGHTS THAT WE BRING TO THIS,

[01:15:08]

>> ONE LAST COMMENT? I AGREE WITH WHAT COMMISSIONER GARRISON SAID, COMPLETELY . THE THING IS THAT THE DEVELOPMENT IS GOING TO HAPPEN . YOU KNOW, I HAVE DONE THIS FOR OVER 40 YEARS , NOT IN THIS CAPACITY, BUT IN THE DEPARTMENT OF LET ME ISLAND, WE SAW THE LAST DOG ON THE MOON , LIKE A BUFFALO, STAMPEDE . I ENCOURAGE YOU TO GET WITH THIS DEVELOPER. IF THIS PASSES THE RECOMMENDATIONS MOVING FORWARD, YOU HAVE GOT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE GETTING HERE . 50-FOOT BUFFER IS UNHEARD-OF AS FAR AS DEVELOPING GOES. I SEE YOUR HEAD SHAKING AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT BASED ON WHAT HE CAN DO NOW, COULD BE WORSE THAN WHAT YOU COULD HAVE IF YOU GET WITH A DEVELOPER AND GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. I CAN'T ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. I AM SORRY . THAT IS ALL I GOT TO

SAY. >> ALL RIGHT . WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND . ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ARE WE READY TO CALL THE QUESTION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS STAFF REPORT, PLEASE SIGNIFY BY SAYING, AYE, RAISING YOUR HAND. AYE. SO, WE HAVE THREE? ALL THOSE OPPOSED? SO, WE HAVE FOUR. AND SO, THE DECISION IS WE DON'T RECOMMEND THE STAFF REPORT . SO, THANK YOU. WE'LL MOVE TO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM.

>> LET THEM KNOW THAT THIS BCC WILL STILL TAKE PRECEDENT.

>> YES. THIS WILL BE -- THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THIS MATTER -- NEED TO GO TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS MEETING IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK ON IT, HAVE INPUT ON AUGUST 27TH.

[2.  Public Hearing to consider ZON 24-0016. (District 1, Comm. Cella) (T. McCoy)]

>> YES. I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT. --

>> GOOD EVENING, CHAIR, AND COMMISSION. I AM HERE TODAY TO DISCUSS PLANNING COMMISSION WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S 24- 0 016. THE APPLICANT IS JOHN W. SCHMIDT , REPRESENTING HIMSELF IN THIS MATTER. THIS IS A REZONING REQUEST FOR A 1.85-ACRE PARCEL FROM SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT AT RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, ARE A, TO AR, AND DISTRICT 3 COMMISSIONER, DISTRICT FOR CELLA, REPRESENTED HERE. THIS MATTER WILL GO BEFORE THE BCC AUGUST 29TH. -- 27? OH. SORRY ABOUT THAT I THINK I MIXED UP OUR NEXT

MEETING FOR THE 29TH. >> OUR NEXT MEETING IS THE

29TH. >> YES. OUR NEXT MEETING IS THE 29TH. YES. NO. IT'S OKAY. SO, THE PUBLIC WAS NOTIFIED VIA OUR NORMAL METHODS OF POSTING SIGNS . THE BACKGROUND ON THIS PROJECT IS THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO REZONE THIS TO THE AR DISTRICT IN ORDER TO PRESERVE THE LAND , ACTUALLY, AND KEEP IT IN A MORE RURAL STATE, AS WELL AS TO BE ABLE TO PUT A SHED ON THE PROPERTY FOR THE USE OF MAINTAINING THE PROPERTY. RIGHT NOW, HE GOES OUT AND CUTS THE GRASS, AND KEEPS THE PROPERTY IN GOOD CONDITION. SO, HE NEEDS TO HAVE SOME EQUIPMENT OUT THERE THAT HE CAN USE TO MAKE THAT HIS PROPERTY. CURRENTLY, THIS IS A RURAL AREA THAT HAS A ONE-UNIT-PER-ACRE LAND USE REQUIREMENT. THE SONY IN THIS

[01:20:03]

>> THANK YOU, MISS MCCOY. ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. MCCOY AT THIS TIME? IF NOT, THEN THE APPLICANT MAY COME FORWARD AND MAKE A PRESENTATION. PLEASE, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE, AND MAKE SURE THAT THE MICROPHONE PICKS UP YOUR VOICE IF YOU NEED TO ADJUST IT.

>> CAN YOU HEAR ME? >> I CAN.

>> JOHN W. SCHMITT -- ISLAND LANE -- PROPERTY A FEW YEARS AGO -- TWO YEARS AGO -- WHEN IT WENT UP FOR SALE, AND I DO NOT WANT TO BUILD ON IT. IT HAS BEAUTIFUL OAK TREES ON IT. I WANT TO KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS, AND IF I SELL IT, IT MIGHT BE TO THE LADY NEXT DOOR. SHE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IT AND BUILD A HOUSE ON IT, SAVE THE BIG OAK TREES, BEAUTIFUL OAK TREES ON IT. 200 YEARS OLD. WENT TO PUT A SHED ON IT, FOUND OUT THAT I CANNOT PUT A SHED ON IT, ZONED R.A.

WITHOUT A HOUSE ON IT WITH THE RESIDENTS. SO, EVENTUALLY TRIED TO CHANGE THE CODE TO R.A., AND THEY SAID, IF YOU DO THAT, THAT CHANGES EVERYBODY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE HALL COUNTY, R.A., WHERE THEY CAN PUT A SHED ON A BACON PIECE OF PROPERTY.

MR. MIKE BROWN TOLD ME, IF YOU GO TO AGRICULTURAL AR , YOU CAN PUT A SHED ON IT WITHOUT A HOUSE, AND IT WOULD ONLY CHANGE YOUR PROPERTY. COULD NOT CHANGE MY PROPERTY UNDER R.A., SO I WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS, HAD A LOT OF HELP FROM HIS OFFICE -- LAUREN HANSEN DID A REAL GOOD JOB OF LEADING ME THROUGH THE PROCESS WITH WHAT LOOKED NEW TO ME, BUT SO, I WOULD LIKE TO GET IT APPROVED SO I COULD PUT A SHED ON IT AND PUT MY TOOLS IN IT. I'M NOT GOING TO PUT THE SHED ON IT. I THINK THE BIGGEST BUILDING I CAN PUT ON IT, 3000 SQUARE FEET. I THINK THAT IS THE RURAL -- MAYBE PUT ONE, AT THE MOST -- 600 SQUARE FEET , LIKE, 20-BY-30 AT THE MOST. RIGHT NOW, LOOKING AT ONE , 16-BY-20, AND I WENT TO TOUGH SHEDS, LOOK AT THEM, TALK TO THEM ABOUT IT, AND IT GOING TO COST ABOUT $20,000, AND PUT A BIT OF CONCRETE, FOUND OF THIS FOUNDATION TO IT -- MAKE IT

[01:25:05]

>> THANK YOU, MR. SCHMITT. YOU HAVE A QUESTION ? I THINK MR. PUCKHABER WANTS TO ASK YOU A QUESTION .

>> MR. SCHMITT, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE -- FIRST O ALL -- MY PERSONAL PRETTY IS AR-ZONED. I AM A BIG FAN OF AR. THIS DOES LOOK LIKE SPOT ZONING, BUT I THINK YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT ON WHY IT COULD BE CHANGED. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE NOT PLANNING ON BUILDING A HOUSE, BUT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A SHED, AND THAT TYPE OF THING -- IF THIS IS APPROVED -- THE SETBACKS AND SOME OF THE RULES ON AR ARE DIFFERENT THAN THEY ARE ON R.A.. I WILL GIVE YOU A QUICK EXAMPLE. ON AR -- IF YOU BUILD, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE 20 FEET OFF THE PROPERTY LINE. R.A., ONLY HAVE TO BE 10, SO, THERE ARE DIFFERENCE IN THE SETBACKS, AND ALSO, WHEN YOU GO TO DO THE THING THAT YOU WANT TO DO ON THIS LOT , YOU CAN'T NECESSARILY DO EXACTLY WHAT THE NEIGHBORS HAVE DONE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE GOT A DIFFERENT

ZONING, DIFFERENT RULES. >> YES.

>> OKAY? THAT IS ALL. >> YEAH. IN THE FRONT OF MY PROPERTY, WHEN THEY DIVIDED IT UP, HAD TO BE FIVE ACRES , AND THE GUY I USED TO WORK FOR -- AROUND THE HOSPITAL -- TOLD ME, SAID, IT WAS OWNED BY THE MEN WHO DIED WITH TWO GIRLS WHO DIVIDED THE PROPERTY INTO TWO LOTS. I BOUGHT ONE ON THE RIGHT, ONE ON THE LEFT HAD ALREADY BEEN THERE FOR SALE THEY MOVED AN ELECTRICAL BOX TO THE FRONT, AND I GOT A 30-FOOT ELECTRICAL EASEMENT , AND I HAVE A 10-FOOT ELECTRICAL EASEMENT DOWN THE SIDE . I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT AR BEING 20 FEET, BUT I WILL RESPECT THAT.

>> JUST CHECK THAT, BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT, WITH SHEDS -- SHEDS CAN BE A LITTLE BIT CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE -- BUT BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, JUST CHECK AND MAKE SURE, BECAUSE LIKE I SAY, IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR NEIGHBOR, WELL, MY NEIGHBOR HAS DONE IT LIKE THAT, YOU HAVE DIFFERENT RULES IF THIS GETS APPROVED. THAT IS ALL I AM POINTING OUT, JUST WATCH

FOR THAT. >> DID NOT SAY -- I DID TALK TO ALL MY CLOSE NEIGHBORS, AND THE ONE LEFT TO ME, BUILDING THE BIG HOUSE ON THE OTHER NEW LOT , JOHN, BUILDING THE HOUSE, USED TO HAVE SOME 41, 000, AND I TALKED TO THEM WHEN THEY WERE DONE, AND THEY HAD NO PROBLEM. SO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO

SAY . >> THANK YOU, MR. SCHMITT.

>> I HAD A QUICK QUESTION . SO, I'M CURIOUS, DO YOU INTEND TO

PUT POWER TO THE SHED? >> I DO HAVE ELECTRICAL

EASEMENT. >> IT WOULD MAKE SENSE. THE REASON I ASK IS, BECAUSE, I WOULD DOUBLE CHECK WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, OR MAYBE YOU GUYS -- THIS IDEA THAT YOU CAN'T BUILD A SHED ON AN AR UNLESS THERE IS A HOUSE GOING

ON IT. >> NO. AR, YOU CAN'T --

>> YOU CAN? >> R.A., YOU CANNOT.

>> BETWEEN NOW AND THE BCC MEETING, GET IN TOUCH WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, MAKE SURE THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH

PUTTING POWER ON IT . >> I HOPE TO DO IT, BUT I

HAVEN'T MADE UP MY MIND YET. >> I HEAR YOU WORKING ON THIS

ABOUT 4 -- >> RIGHT .

>> TRY TO GET EVERYTHING DONE.

>> TO ACHIEVE HIS GOAL OF PRESERVING THE LOT -- WHICH I THINK IS A NOBLE GOAL, I GUESS -- A BEAUTIFUL LOCKED TO PUT A HOUSE ON IT, BUT, THERE'S NO CONSERVATION OPPORTUNITY? OR IS THAT MORE TROUBLE ? MORE TROUBLE? I WAS JUST CURIOUS.

ALL RIGHT. THAT WAS ALL I HAD. THANK YOU.

>> ALL RIGHT. QUESTION? >> I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO, BECAUSE I LOOKED AT THAT PIECE , IT

WAS BEAUTIFUL. >> THANK YOU.

>> I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU DON'T WANT TO BUILD YOUR HOUSE ON IT, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT. MY ONLY CONCERN IS, WHEN IT COMES TIME FOR YOU TO SELL , AS FAR AS YOUR INTENTIONS , AS FAR AS REZONING BACK TO R.A. AND BACK TO AR THE REASON I SAY THAT, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE AUTHORIZED UNDER THE AR, THAT IS AN ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOOD. IS BACK IN THE WOODS, HIDDEN,

[01:30:02]

YOU CAN HAVE LIVESTOCK ON IT , TURNED INTO A FORM , ALL THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. MY CONCERN, TO THE RESIDENTS IN THE AREA, DO THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT COULD HAPPEN WHEN YOU DO SO IF IT'S STILL UNDER AR? THAT IS MY BIGGEST CONCERN.

>> I CAN'T ANSWER THAT . >> OUTSIDE OF KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS, PRISTINE AND STUFF , STAND UP AND GIVE YOU A STANDING OR WHATEVER OVATION FOR THAT.

>> I COULD NOT, ANSWERING THAT QUESTION -- BUT I COULD TELL THEM WHEN I WAS DOING AND ALL I WANTED TO DO, BUILD A SMALL SHED SO I COULD KEEP THE TOOLS OUT THERE, THEN I CAN HOLD THEM BACK AND FORTH RIGHT NOW. I HAVE A BEAUTIFUL HOME, AND I DON'T WANT TO BUILD ONE. PEOPLE ARE RIGHT TO THE RIGHT, BEEN THERE ABOUT 13 OR 14 YEARS. ERVIN AND REBECCA PADGETT . THEY SAID, THEY HAVE DIBS ON IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT A HOUSE ON IT. THAT WOULD PUBLICLY BE WHO I WOULD SELL IT TO. HE OWNS ALL 10 ACRES, FROM THE RIVER ALL THE WAY TO PINE AVENUE, AND I DID HAVE A REAL GOOD OFFLOAD, AND TURNED IT DOWN, NOT WHAT I PAID FOR IT .I TOLD HIM, NO, YOU ARE NOT GOING

TO TEAR MY TREES DOWN. >> GOING TO FIND A PIECE OF

PARKING LIKE THAT? >> OKAY.

>> ALL RIGHT. ARE WE READY TO HAVE A MOTION ON THIS MATTER?

>> PUBLIC HEARING. >> EXCUSE ME. EXCUSE ME. OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. THERE IS SOMEONE HERE.THIS MUST BE MS.

DUKE . >> HELLO. EVENT DUKE, 182 --

>> WHEN YOU PULL THE MIC DOWN TO YOU? PICK YOU UP.

>> BABBITT DUKE, WHEN IT 82 NORTHRIDGE DRIVE, AND IT IS A BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF PROPERTY. A GREAT 110% AGREEMENT FROM ME. I AGREE. ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WETLANDS, WHERE I LIVE, AND THE CONCERNS YOU BOYS ARE EXACTLY MY CONCERNS. AS ADMIRABLE AS YOUR WISHES AND WHAT YOU WANT TO DO OUR, I AM CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU SELL IT OR IF IT REMAINS ZONED AGRICULTURAL/RESIDENTIAL. SO, THOSE ARE MY CONCERNS. IF HE COULD SOMEHOW MAKE SURE THAT, WHEN YOU NO LONGER OWN IT, THAT IT GOES BACK TO RESIDENTIAL, THAT WOULD BE MY CONCERN, BECAUSE , TO HAVE LIVESTOCK ON THAT PROPERTY , OR A TRAILER, THEN WHAT HAPPENS TO WASTE FROM LIVESTOCK WILL END UP IN THE RIVER, OR IF SOMEBODY DECIDES TO TURN IT INTO SOME SORT OF -- THEY WANT TO GROW SOMETHING THE PESTICIDES OR FERTILIZERS, INTO THE RIVER? IT IS GOING TO AFFECT THE OPERATIVE VALUES OF EVERYONE AROUND, AND NOT JUST THAT, THEN ANY WASTE OF ANY SORT ENDS UP IN THE RIVER, AND IT IS JUST NOT IDEAL . YOU KNOW? SO, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY OTHER AGRICULTURAL PROPERTY ALONG THE RIVER ON FLEMING ISLAND . SO, I WAS KIND OF SURPRISED TO SEE OR HEAR ABOUT THAT. BUT, AGAIN, WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH IT, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND. IT IS BEAUTIFUL. I GET IT. IF THERE COULD JUST BE SOME WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN HIS PLAN IS CAN HAPPEN , MAKE SURE IT STAYS THAT WAY, JUST FOR HIS PLAN, AND WHAT HAPPENS AFTER HIS IS HONORED DURING HIS OWNERSHIP. YOU KNOW? I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN GUARANTEE THAT. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO THAT, BUT THAT IS MY CONCERN . SO, THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE YOUR LIPID

>> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. NOW, ANYONE ELSE WHO WISHES TO BE HEARD ON THIS MATTER? I'M GOING TO CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING.

>> MADAME CHAIR, I WILL MOVE THE STAFF REPORT ON THIS ONE, AND IF I GET A SECOND -- I HAVE A COMMENT.

>> DO WE HAVE A SECOND? >> SECOND.

>> THE ONLY COMMENT I WOULD HAVE TO THE LADY THAT SPOKE THERE IS YOU CAN ALWAYS TALK TO MR. SCHMITT . HE CAN DO --

[01:35:01]

MIGHT WANT TO TAKE THAT AVENUE. >> ALL RIGHT.

>> I AM ONE QUESTION FOR STAFF. THERE'S NO OTHER WAY THAT HE CAN BUILD A MAINTENANCE SHED ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY OTHER THAN

WITH THE CODE AR? OKAY. >> WHAT IF HE DID A PUD ?

>> MIKE BROWN, ZONING CHIEF. ANOTHER OPTION WOULD BE A PUD.

THEN, YOU CAN RESTRICT THE USE. >> THAT IS NOT 5 ACRES, THOUGH,

RIGHT? >> NO. I'M SAYING, WE JUST HAD

AN ARGUMENT LAST WEEK. >> NOT AGAIN.

>> DO WE HAVE A ONE-ACRE PUD? > HAVE TO BE DIRECT TO OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY. COURTNEY, JUST A QUESTION, WE DON'T HAVE ANY PROVISION? I DON'T REMEMBER DOING THIS . DID WE HAVE ANY KIND OF SUNSET PROVISION WE CAN PUT IN THE ZONING FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS WHERE, IF THE PROPERTY IS TO CHANGE HANDS, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD ROLL BACK TO R.A. ? THAT WOULD SOLVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THAT.

>> I HAVE BEEN IN THIS SITUATION BEFORE. I HAVE SEEN THIS, YOU KNOW, WHERE THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO, YOU KNOW, AND WHATEVER WE'RE GOING TO DO, IT IS GONE, ONLY BECAUSE WE ALLOWED IT WITHIN THE GUIDELINES OF COUNTY CODE. SO, THAT IS WHAT I AM FEARFUL -- I APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING, MR. SCHMITT. I TOTALLY SUPPORT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO, BECAUSE THAT IS A WONDERFUL PIECE OF PROPERTY THERE. I AM SO FEARFUL OF WHAT HAPPENED NEXT. YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THE RESIDENTIAL AREA, THE BEAUTIFUL AREA THEY ARE BUILDING DOWN IN THERE. THAT IS A GRAVE CONCERN.

>> I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT FUTURE DEVELOPMENT AR, DENSITY IS 1 TO

5? >> DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU WANT TO

DO WITH THE LAND-USE. >> I GOT YOU. THIS IS ZONING, NOT LAND-USE. THANK YOU. STILL LEARNING.

>> AR AT DIFFERENT DENSITIES, MANY OF THEM -- DON'T KNOW WHAT THE LAND-USE IS .

>> FRENCH. >> YEAH. 9 1/2 ACRES.

>> IF YOU ARE IN URBAN CORE LIKE I AM, IT IS ONLY 1/2-ACRE.

>> DO WE HAVE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ARE WE READY TO CALL THE QUESTION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, PLEASE SIGNIFY BY RAISING YOUR HAND .

>> AYE. >> AYE.

>> ALL RIGHT. THAT IS ONE, TWO, THREE, AND THOSE OPPOSED? ONE.

SO, THE MOTION CARRIES, AND WE APPROVE THE STAFF REPORT. THANK YOU. THAT CONCLUDES THIS MATTER. THANK YOU. DO YOU ALL WANT TO HAVE A BREAK BEFORE THE NEXT ITEM OR KEEP GOING?

>> I AM OKAY. >> ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. ITEM

[3.  Public Hearing to consider ZON 24-0010. (B. Carson)]

CARSON? >> THANK YOU, MADAME CHAIR.

THIS IS A COUNTY INITIATED TEXT AMENDMENT TO ARTICLES 3 AND ARTICLE 8 OF THE LANDED ELEMENT CODE TO ADDRESS SAFETY CONCERNS WITH RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS DUE TO INADEQUATE OFFSTREET PARKING . THIS WAS BROUGHT TO YOU IN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FORM IN MAY . WE HAVE MADE SOME REVISIONS TO IT BASED ON YOUR COMMENTS, AND THIS ITEM WILL BE GOING TO THE BCC FOR PUBLIC

[01:40:03]

SO, 25 FEET HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE. WE ARE JUST MAKING THE OTHER CHANGES TO THAT SECTION. THE NEXT PART IS A COMBINATION CAR -- LET'S SEE -- THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE FORMAT. A COMBINATION OF TWO-CAR GARAGE AND DRIVEWAY SHALL COUNT AS TWO OFFSTREET PARKING SPACES, PROVIDED THE MINIMUM WIDTH OF THE DRIVEWAY IS 20 FEET, AND ITS MINIMUM LENGTH IS AS SPECIFIED ABOVE FOR A ONE-CAR GARAGE OR CARPORT. SO, THOSE DIMENSIONS ARE STATING THE SAME, 20-FOOT IN WIDTH AND 25-FOOT IN LENGTH. DIFFERENCE IS WE ARE SPECIFYING WHERE IT IS MEASURED, WHICH IS TO THE LOT LINE, BASICALLY, THE PROPERTY LINE, OR AN ACCESS EASEMENT . GRAPHICS HELP TELL THE STORY A LITTLE BIT. I HAVE PROVIDED A COPY OF THIS SO, HOPEFULLY, YOU CAN SEE. UPPER-RIGHT CORNER IS A REQUIREMENT FOR SINGLE-FAMILY. THIS WOULD EITHER BE ATTACHED OR DETACHED. ONE, TWO, THREE-BEDROOM UNITS REQUIRE THREE SPACES WITH A DUPLEX REQUIRING TWO SPACES PER DWELLING UNIT. SO, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE A LOT OF CARS WHEN YOU GET INTO A THREE-BEDROOM HOUSE. YOU WILL POSSIBLY HAVE MORE THAN TWO CARS, EASILY. SO, IN THE MIDDLE IS THE CODE I JUST READ TO YOU WITH THE DRAFT CHANGES, AND LET ME EXPLAIN THE DIAGRAM ON THE LEFT. THIS WOULD BE IF WE WERE TO CHANGE THE CODE IN THIS WAY . THIS HOUSE IS SETBACK 25 FEET. THE GARAGE IS ACTUALLY 25 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.

THE FACADE IS 20-FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER WHEN WE GET INTO THE ACTUAL CODE. YOU SEE, IT IS A 20-FOOT WIDTH , WE HAVE THE 5-FOOT SIDEWALK, WE WILL TRY TO HAVE THE SIDEWALK AS CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE AS POSSIBLE SO THAT THERE IS THE ADEQUATE SPACE FOR STREET TREES. THE DIAGRAM ON THE RIGHT IS THE SITUATION WHERE -- THIS WOULD PROBABLY BE NORMALLY A LARGER LOT THAN WHAT I AM SHOWING, BUT THIS IS A CASE WHERE WE WOULD HAVE AN EASEMENT INSTEAD OF A SUBDIVISION ROAD . SO, PROPERTY LINE IS TYPICALLY TO THE MIDDLE OF THAT ACCESS EASEMENT. SO, AGAIN, YOU HAVE THE 20-FOOT WIDTH, 25-FOOT GARAGE SETBACK TO THE ACCESS EASEMENT, IN THIS CASE, THAT IS IN THE CODE. NOW, I'M GOING TO TAKE YOU THROUGH THE CHANGES IN THE CODE.

>> CAN I INTERRUPT ONE SECOND?

>> DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? >> YEAH. THESE DIAGRAMS WOULD

BE A ONE-CAR GARAGE ? >> THIS IS A TWO-CAR GARAGE.

>> OKAY. >> THERE'S CARS THERE.

>> ON THE ONE-CAR GARAGE, DO WE STILL REQUIRE A 20-FOOT-WIDE

DRIVEWAY? >> THE FIRST PART OF THIS IS A COMBINATION OF ONE-CAR GARAGE, OR CARPORT, AND DRIVEWAY COMBINATION SHALL COUNT AS TWO WORKING SPACES. WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH A SINGLE-FAMILY ATTACHED TOWNHOME WITH ONE CAR GARAGE AND ONE DRIVEWAY , THAT WOULD COUNT AS TWO SPACES.

>> THE DRIVER WOULD ONLY BE 10 FEET WIDE?

>> MOST LIKELY, YES. YES. WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT SCENARIOS WE

WORK WITH IN THAT CASE. >> OKAY.

>> SO, THE CODE HAS -- IT IS NOT TERRIBLY CONSISTENT LANGUAGE THROUGHOUT -- THAT IS WHY YOU CAN SEE DIFFERENT SECTIONS, AND THEY MAY BE VERY SIMILAR, BUT THERE MAY BE A LITTLE DIFFERENCE THROUGHOUT, BUT I WILL GO THROUGH IT QUICKLY. WITHIN THE AR-1, TUTAS, RB, RC, RE, AND BF' RS, THE STANDARD RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, AND THEN ONE IN GRANITE FIELD , THE PROPOSED CHANGE WOULD BE THIS, WE HAVE LEFT THE 20-FOOT , AND WE ARE APPLYING IT TO THE FRONT-FACADE, AND WE HAVE ADDED THE 25-FOOT FOR ATTACHED OR DETACHED FRONT-FACING GARAGE OR CARPORT. SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL BROUGHT UP IN THE MEETING BACK IN MAY WAS THAT IT SHOULD APPLY TO FRONT-FACING. WE HAVE CLARIFIED THAT THIS HASN'T CHANGED FROM ME THIS IS IN THE RESIDENTIAL MOBILE HOME PARK.

[01:45:01]

WE HAVE SHIFTED THAT AND ADDED 25-FOOT FOR ATTACHED OR DETACHED FRONT-FACING GARAGE OR CARPORT FOR SINGLE-FAMILY ATTACHED OR DETACHED, THEN THE 15 FEET FOR THE NONRESIDENTIAL.

SIMILAR LANGUAGE IN L.A. RESERVE, RC AND RF, AGAIN, FRONT PORCHES, FACADES, AND THE MAIN THING IS ADDING THE 25-FOOT FOR THE FRONT-FACING. L.A. NPC, AGAIN, SIMILAR. IN THAT CASE, 5-FOOT FOR FRONT PORCHES. IF YOU DIDN'T CHANGE THAT, 10 FOOT .CHANGE THAT FOR THE FACADE, JUST ADDED A

20-FOOT. >>

FACADE? >> THAT IS CORRECT.

>> EXISTING LANGUAGE? >> THOSE ARE MINIMUMS. THINGS

CAN BE SET BACK FURTHER. >> RIGHT.

>> BFAC, 15 FOOT FOR THE FRONT FACADE, 10 FOOT FOR THE FRONT PORCHES, THEN 25 IS ADDED. BFMU, A DIFFERENT STANDARD, MIXED-USE AREA OFF THE FIRST COAST EXPRESSWAY, AND IN THIS CASE, LANGUAGE WAS STRICTLY RELATED TO UTILITY STANDARDS FOR PROTECTING TREES , SO, WE WANT TO CLARIFY THAT, ADDED THE 25-FOOT DETACHED FRONT-FACING GARAGE. L.A. AC -- AS BARRY ACTIVITY CENTER -- AGAIN, SIMILAR CHANGE, SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT WORDING IN THESE. SIMILAR FOR LABC. IN THAT CASE, WE ADDED THE FRONT FACADE OF 15 FOOT FOR SINGLE-FAMILY DETACHED, 10-FOOT FRONT FACADE FOR SINGLE-FAMILY ATTACHED, AND THE 25-FOOT , AND ADDED THE ONE TO MAKE IT 15 FEET FROM THE NONRESIDENTIAL, INSTEAD OF 5. THEN, THE MASTER PLANS, THE INTENT IS TO KIND OF PUSH THE BUILDINGS UP TOWARDS THE STREETS, SO IT IS MORE PEDESTRIAN-FAMILY, ENVIRONMENT, KIND OF LIKE THE OLD TOWNS USED TO BE, AND SO, IN SOME OF THE DISTRICTS, THE BFMPC, LABC AND LAAC, THERE IS A MAXIMUM FRONT -SETBACK DESIGNED TO KEEP THE BUILDINGS CLOSER TO THE STREET.

SO, WE HAVE PROPOSED A CHANGE TO JUST APPLY THE 25-FOOT TO THE FRONT-FACADE . THEREFORE, YOUR GARAGE COULD BE SET BACK FURTHER TO ENSURE YOU HAVE GOT THE 20-FOOT -- 25-FOOT -- PARKING SPACE IN FRONT. WITH THAT, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL FOR ZONE 2410. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU

HAVE. >> QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONER

PUCKHABER? >> THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS.

YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN, I THINK , AN ISSUE FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. THERE WAS ONE THING IN HERE, THOUGH, THAT I DIDN'T SEE, AND I WANTED TO SEE IF IT IS AN INTERPRETATION, OR WE NEED TO ADD IT. AS YOU DRIVE AROUND, THERE ARE, ON CORNER LOTS, ESPECIALLY CORNER LOTS, WHAT I HAVE BEEN THINKING OF. A LOT OF TIMES, THOSE HOUSES FACE THIS STREET , AND THEY HAVE A SIDE-INJURY GARAGE THAT ACTUALLY HAS A DRIVEWAY OFF THE SIDE STREET , AND I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING IN HERE ABOUT SIGN-ENTRY DRIVEWAYS. YOU KNOW, AGAINST A RIGHT-OF-WAY. IF YOU GO IN THE DRIVEWAY, USE SIDE-ENTRY FOR THE GARAGE, THAT IS A DIFFERENT THING. THIS IS WHERE IT IS A CORNER LOT, WHERE THE HOUSE FACES THIS STREET, AND THE GARAGE ENTRY IS OFF THE OTHER STREET, AND DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING IN HERE ABOUT MAKING SURE THOSE DRIVEWAYS ARE 25-FEET.

>> IT WOULD HAVE THAT 35-FOOT SETBACK BECAUSE THE STRUCTURE WOULD BE A GARAGE, AND IT WOULD BE --

>> IT WOULD BE PART OF THE HOUSE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT IS ATTACHED. IT IS NOT A SEPARATE GARAGE, BUT IF IT IS A CORNER

[01:50:04]

LOT? >> IF IT IS A CORNER LOT, IT

HAS GOT TWO FRONTAGS. >> THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A FRONT? THAT IS WHAT I NEEDED TO UNDERSTAND. VERY GOOD.

>> THANK YOU. THAT IS HELPFUL. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, CONCERNS? ARE WE READY -- I HAVE GOT TO OPEN PUBLIC HEARING. IS THERE ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE HEARD ON THIS MATTER? I DO NOT HAVE ANY CARDS. SEEING NO ONE APPROACHING, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, AND WE CAN OPEN

IT . >> I WILL MOVE THE STAFF

REPORT. >> I SECOND, RALPH PUCKHABER

ORDINANCE. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SIGNIFY BY SAYING, AYE.

>> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED , SAME SIGN.

MOTION CARRIES. STAFF REPORT IS RECOMMENDED BY THE COMMISSION.

THANK YOU. NOW, AT THIS TIME, THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS

[1.  Propose New Conditional Use of Rural Event Venue (M. Brown)]

BUSINESS TONIGHT. >> YES.

>> PROPOSING A NEW CONDITIONAL USE RURAL EVENT MENU BY ZONING

CHIEF BROWN . >> YEAH. MADAM CHAIRMAN, COMMISSION, JUST A DISCUSSION ITEM , HOPEFULLY IT WILL COME FOR APPROVAL TO YOU IN THE FUTURE -- OR RECOMMENDATION IN THE FUTURE -- AND VOTE FOR APPROVAL IN THE FUTURE. THIS IS STAFF-INITIATED , CHANGE TO THE CODE, AND THEY WOULD ADD A NEW CONDITIONAL USE THAT WE HAVE ENTITLED THE RURAL EVENT VENUE.

BASICALLY, WHAT IT WOULD DO IS BRING -- PRESENTLY -- WE HAVE A RURAL EVENT CENTER YOUTH CAMP AND A RETREAT CENTER WITH CONDITIONAL USES. THIS WOULD, IN ESSENCE, COMBINE THOSE USES.

ANY OF THE USES THAT ARE ALLOWED IN THOSE THREE WOULD BE ALLOWED WITHIN THIS CONDITIONAL USE. ONE OF THE CHANGES IS THAT , UNDER THIS USE, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE A NOT-FOR-PROFIT FOR THE RURAL CENTER AND THE YOUTH CENTER, OR THE YOUTH CAMP. YOU WOULD HAVE TO -- TO OPERATE A NOT-FOR-PROFIT -- THIS WOULD ALLOW THOSE USES EITHER AS A NOT-FOR-PROFIT OR UNDER A FOR PROFIT ENTITY. IT IS PROPOSED THAT IT WOULD BE ALLOWED, AND THE RURAL COMMUNITY, AGRICULTURAL DESIGNATION DISTRICTS, BRANAN FIELD RURAL SUBURBS, LAKE ASBURY RURAL, ARE LESS, MORE RURAL LAND USES AND ZONING DISTRICTS THAT WE HAVE , WHERE STAFF BELIEVES IT WOULD BE MORE APPLICABLE . THE GENERAL STANDARDS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE MET TO OBTAIN CONDITIONAL USE APPROVAL FOR A RURAL EVENT MENU, THE MINIMUM SIZE OF 50 ACRES HAVE TO BE ACCESSED BY A PAVED ROAD, MINIMUM PERIMETER BUFFER OF 75 FEET WENT TO TYPE B BUFFER REQUIREMENTS. MUST RECEIVE APPROVAL OF A TANJA FOR THE NEW PRIOR TO COMMENCING OPERATIONS. RV 'S COULD COMPRISE UP TO 20% OF THE PROPERTY WITH A MAXIMUM DENSITY OF 12 RVS, SITES PER ACRE, AND IN THE DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE CARRIED FORWARD AND ARE THE SAME AS WE PRESENTLY HAVE IN THE CAMPGROUND AND YOUTH CAMPS, SO THERE'S NO CHANGE. SO, THOSE GUIDELINES WOULD APPLY TO ANY RV SITES PROVIDED UNDER THIS CONDITIONAL USE. ANY HELD EVENTS WITHIN THE RURAL EVENT MENU THAT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CLAY COUNTY EVENT ORDINANCE WOULD STILL HAVE TO APPLY THROUGH THAT PROCESS, SO THERE'S ANOTHER PROCESS FOR ANY LARGE EVENTS THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THIS CONDITIONAL USE , AND THEN, THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 15-5, WHICH IS THE CLAY COUNTY CODE THAT APPLIES TO NOISE, WOULD APPLY WITH SOME TIME RESTRICTIONS. IT WOULD ALLOW THE RESTRICTIONS TO NOT APPLY ON THURSDAYS BETWEEN 5:00 P.M. AND 10:00 P.M. , FRIDAYS AND

[01:55:01]

COMMENTS? >> QUESTIONS, COMMENTS,

DISCUSSIONS? >> A COUPLE QUESTIONS.

>> COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER? >> THE CONDITIONAL USE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, WE WERE DIRECTED NOT TO TAKE ANY MORE APPLICATIONS FOR IT -- I REMEMBER WHEN THAT WENT IN THE CODE, AND WE DID IT , I THINK, FOR BARN WEDDINGS, AND IT SEEMS TO ME, IT WAS A PARTIAL SOMEWHERE AROUND GREEN COVE SPRINGS, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT.YEAH. ARE PEOPLE -- WAS THAT, LIKE, A HER ADMITTED CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT? IS THAT

PLACE EVEN STILL FUNCTIONING? >> IT WAS A DIRECTION FROM THE BOARD TO STAFF NOT TO TAKE ANYMORE, AND THERE HASN'T -- THAT DIRECTIVE HASN'T BEEN TAKEN -- RESCINDED BY THE BOARD

-- >> WHAT I'M ASKING, THOUGH, PRIOR TO THAT DIRECTIVE, DID WE APPROVE ANY OTHER?

>> I BELIEVE , AGAIN, BEFORE MY TIME, I BELIEVE THERE WERE SOME APPROVED UNDER THAT CONDITIONAL USE.

>> MIGHT STILL BE ABLE -- >> YEAH. MIGHT STILL BE.

>> THAT WAS ALL MY QUESTION. THE OTHER ONE, THE WORDING IN THIS. I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND, IT IS ACTUALLY AROUND LINE 179 , TALKS ABOUT DESIGN AND OTHER STANDARDS FOR RV SITES, TALKS ABOUT RURAL EVENT , YOU KNOW, HOW MANY RVS OR TENTS YOU CAN HAVE, THAT KIND OF THING , BUT THEN, IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS ALL A SUBSECTION. THAT IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO FOLLOW. YOU GET DOWN TO LINE WONDERS 99, CABIN SITE STANDARDS , AND LINE 201, HEART OF THE SENTENCE SAYS -- RIGHT?

[02:00:06]

IT. >> YEAH. MY MISTAKE ON THE

DRAFTING. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FOR MR. BROWN? ALL RIGHT. WELL, I GUESS THAT CONCLUDES THIS ITEM, AND WE APPRECIATE YOU GIVING US A HEADS UP ON IT. NOW, I HAD TWO COMMISSIONERS ASKED ME TONIGHT IF THEY COULD BRING UP SOMETHING TO DO WITH -- I GUESS -- OLD BUSINESS? YES. AND SO, COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER -- I BELIEVE IT WAS YOU, COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER, THEN --

>> I JUST TAKE A FEW MINUTES. AFTER WE HAD A DISCUSSION LAST MONTH ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SMALL ACREAGE PUDS AND ALL, WHICH, I WOULD STILL BE EXTREMELY OPPOSED TO, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT YOU WANT TO BLOW UP NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT IT GOT ME TO THINKING ABOUT TINY HOMES. IN FACT, AT THE BCC MEETING, I KNOW TINY HOMES CAME UP . I DON'T KNOW IF ALL THE DIRECTION THAT STAFF WAS GIVEN TO LOOK INTO THIS -- YOU KNOW -- I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT A LOT, BECAUSE WE DO NEED TO DO SOME ON AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR A WHILE, THEN BACK ON IT.

YOU KNOW, WE DID AN AUXILIARY DWELLING UNITS, WHICH IS FINE, BUT IT IS NOT A BIG SOLUTION. I JUST BEEN THINKING ABOUT, WHAT CAN WE DO, AND I HAVE OFTEN THOUGHT ABOUT THIS IDEA OF COURTYARDS, AND I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT I MUST HAVE JUST PICKED THIS UP FROM OLDER STUFF, BECAUSE, THIS SUNDAY -- A WEEK AGO -- IN THE "TIMES UNION," THEY HAD A FRONT PAGE STORY, OR FRONT-SECTION STORY -- ABOUT ONE BUNGALOW AT A TIME. YOU KNOW? AND IT WAS A VERY GOOD ARTICLE TO READ , BUT ESSENTIALLY, THIS GUY IN JACKSONVILLE BOUGHT A BUNGALOW COURT , WHICH I WENT AND DID SOME RESEARCH ON IT. A BUNGALOW COURT IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT WAS -- IT WAS KIND OF A FAD , IF YOU WANT, AND THEY BUILT A NUMBER OF THEM IN CALIFORNIA, PRIOR TO WORLD WAR II. AFTER WORLD WAR II, FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY FELL OUT OF FAVOR, AND PROBABLY FELL OUT OF FAVOR MOSTLY BECAUSE THE BROTHERS WHO CAME IN AND SHOWED US HOW TO FACTORY BUILT HOMES, AND URBAN SPRAWL WENT CRAZY IN BUILDING SUBURBS, BUT IN THE MORE DENSE, URBAN AREAS, NOT OUT MORE AWAY FROM TOWN OR THE LARGE LOTS AND THAT KIND OF THING, BUT IN THE MORE DENSE AREAS, THIS SEEMED TO BE A PRETTY GOOD SOLUTION, BECAUSE THESE THINGS ARE DESIGNED, ESSENTIALLY, TO SIT IN SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS, OR MIXED-USE NEIGHBORHOODS, WITH , ON FAIRLY SMALL LOTS, ALMOST RESIDENTIAL, 100-BY-150-FOOT LOT, AND WHAT I GAVE YOU GUYS WAS JUST SOME STUFF I COPIED REAL QUICK OFF ONE INTERNET SITE I WAS LOOKING AT. THERE'S A COMPANY, OFF THE COAST DESIGN, OFF THE WEBSITE. URBAN DESIGNERS, ARCHITECTS AND STRATEGISTS, RECENTLY FOUNDED WITH THE BELIEF THAT WALKABLE SPACES AND EQUITABLE COMMUNITIES -- AND THERE'S A LOT MORE. YOU CAN SPEND ALL DAY CHASING THESE ARTICLES, BUT THEY ALL SAY BASICALLY THE SAME THING, WHICH YOU GUYS KNOW THIS. WE HEAR IT ALL THE TIME. THERE IS A TERM CALLED THE MISSING MIDDLE. I HEARD THEM TALKING ABOUT IT, ST. JOHNS COUNTY THE OTHER DAY, WATCHING SOMETHING OVER THERE. WE GOT PLENTY OF HOUSES WITH BIG LOTS, AND FANCY HOUSES, RICH FOLKS, AND WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, JUST LIVE IN TERRIBLE HOUSING, BUT IT IS CHEAP, BUT THERE'S NOTHING IN THE MIDDLE, THE NURSES, STARTER HOMES, FAMILIES, THAT KIND OF THING. THESE BUNGALOW AREAS ARE SOMETHING I THINK WE SHOULD GIVE SOME THOUGHT TO OLDER ONES FROM PRE-WORLD WAR II REALLY DIDN'T ALLOW FOR ANY CARS , BECAUSE THEY WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE MOSTLY USED PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION BACK THEN, AND THEY WERE BUILT, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT WHEN I GAVE YOU, THIS IS FROM THIS OPTIC -- DISCIPLINE OF THE NEWER DESIGNS -- THIS PAGE HAS GOT A LITTLE YELLOW THING. HERE. I WILL GIVE ONE TO YOU GUYS, BUT THEY ALLOWED FOR SOME PARKING, BACK HERE, IN THE BACK, BUT THE

[02:05:03]

CAN'T GET BETTER THAN THIS. THEY'RE STILL SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES, TYPICALLY ONE, MAYBE TWO -BEDROOM, ONE-BATH HOMES, NOT AN 800-SQUARE-FOOT HOME, AND THEY'RE JUST LINED UP, AND THERE WERE A COUPLE OF OTHER -- THIS WAS A DIFFERENT ONE -- BUT THIS WAS AN EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE ELSE -- WHAT I NOTICE, THERE'S

NO CARS IN HERE. >> I WAS GOING TO ASK ABOUT THE

CARS. >> THE OLD DESIGNS DIDN'T EVEN CONSIDER CARS. THE NEWER DESIGNS PUT THEM ON THE PERIMETER, SUMMER LIKE HERE, WHERE THEY HAVE GOT SOME PARKING ON THE BACK END, BUT THE MAIN ENTRANCE IS OFF THE SIDEWALK, UP THE CENTER, SO, YOU DON'T SEE A BUNCH OF CARS . YOU JUST SEE THE SCREEN SPACE, WHICH BECOMES A COMMON AREA. IT IS LIKE A LITTLE NEIGHBORHOOD. EVERYBODY SITS ON THE FRONT PORCH, AND THE OLDER ONES WERE ALL UP, LIKE WE ARE TRYING TO DO WITH TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN. NOT GROUND LEVEL. THEY WERE ELEVATED ON PEERS OR WHATEVER, AND PEOPLE SAT ON THEIR PORCHES, AND YOU ARE LITERALLY ONLY A SHORT DISTANCE FROM YOUR NEIGHBOR. YOU CAN SIT THROUGH THERE AND TALK TO THEM. THE ONLY OTHER ONE I WANTED TO SHOW, REALLY QUICK, THIS SATELLITE PHOTO, THIS LAST ONE. THESE ARE OLD.

THEY'RE A BIT RUN DOWN, BUT THAT IS AN OLD BUNGALOW COURT THAT SITS IN JACKSONVILLE, NORTH OF DOWNTOWN. NOW, WHAT HAPPENED HERE, OF COURSE, IT WAS DESIGNED -- THIS ONE, BUILT IN 1911 -- BACK THEN, THIS IS MAIN STREET OVER HERE, THERE WAS A TROLLEY LINE DOWN MAIN STREET WHEN THESE PEOPLE MOST LIKELY DIDN'T HAVE CARS. THEY WOULD TAKE THE TROLLEY WHEREVER THEY WENT . YOU CAN SEE IN HERE, SOME PEOPLE ARE PARKING CARS IN FRONT OF HOUSES NOW, BUT THE POINT IS, LOOK HOW CLOSE THOSE HOUSES ARE. THEY'RE SMALL HOUSES, VERY CLOSE TOGETHER, THEY SHARE A LOT OF COMMON AMENITIES, AND I THINK THAT ADDRESSES SOME OF THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE BEEN HAVING ABOUT HOW DO WE GET MORE PEOPLE -- AND I DON'T THINK THE ANSWER IS ONE-ACRE PUDS . I DON'T THINK THAT FIXES THE PROBLEM. WE NEED TO TACKLE A BIGGER ISSUE, WHICH IS MAYBE A WHOLE NEW ZONING CODE FOR THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT. YOU KNOW? I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY REAL ANSWERS HERE .

>> THIS IS PART OF WHAT YOU PRESENTED TOO? DID YOU PASS

THIS AROUND? >> SO, IT WAS JUST SOMETHING I SAW, AND GENERATED WITH THIS GUY IN JACKSONVILLE WHO HAD BOUGHT A WHOLE BUNGALOW COURT, REALLY RUN DOWN, BUT HE IS GOING TO RESTORE THEM , AND AS I DID SOME LOOKING AROUND ON THE INTERNET, I FOUND OUT THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE DOING THIS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, WHERE THEY CAN GET THE OLD ONES AND RESTORE THEM. SOME OF THEM, THEY HAVE TURNED INTO -- IF THEY'RE IN OR NEAR A BEACH, THEY TURNED THEM INTO RENTALS, LIKE VACATION RENTALS, AND I READ ONE ARTICLE, A YOUNGER COUPLE. THEY WERE JUST, YOU KNOW, BESIDE THEMSELVES THAT THEY FOUND THIS LITTLE HOME WITH THIS SENSE OF COMMUNITY THAT THEY COULD HAVE IS A -- AS A STARTER HOME. IT JUST SEEMED LIKE, YOU KNOW, OFTEN, SOME OF THE BEST IDEAS ARE THE ONES, FOR SOME REASON, YOU THROW AWAY YEARS AGO. RIGHT? THAT IS ABOUT IT. THE ONLY OTHER THING I WANTED TO MENTION WAS THE OTHER IDEA -- AND I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS ARE PROBABLY AWARE OF THIS, BUT THESE LITTLE BUNGALOW COURTS WERE 500-800 SQUARE-FOOT HOMES . THEY WERE HOMES. BUT YOU KNOW, THERE'S OTHER OPTIONS WE GOT FOR SMALL HOMES TOO , WHERE YOU GUYS ARE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT PARK MODELS ARE. THEY'RE BASICALLY MOBILE HOMES, BUT THEY ARE ONLY 500 SQUARE FEET, AND THEY TYPICALLY CONSIST OF A LIVING AREA, KITCHEN AREA, BATHROOM, AND A ONE-BEDROOM UNIT. YOU SEE THEM ALL THE TIME IF YOU VACATION WHERE THEY RENT CABINS AND ALL. SOMETIMES, THEY PUT FAKE LOGS ON TO MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE A LITTLE LOG CABIN, THAT KIND OF THING, BUT THEY'RE EXCELLENT TINY HOMES. I HAVE STAYED -- YOU COULDN'T HAVE A FAMILY OF FIVE IN THERE -- BUT FOR A SINGLE PERSON OR JUST A COUPLE STARTING OUT, THEY'RE A GREAT OPTION , AND WE GOT TO FIGURE OUT A WAY -- RIGHT NOW -- BECAUSE THEY WOULD PROBABLY BE REVERSIBLE -- TOO SMALL UNDER

[02:10:09]

MORE THAN YOU WANT TO HEAR. >> I WAS GOING TO INTERJECT SOMETHING. REALLY, NOT A PROBLEM, BUT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE THOUGHT ABOUT IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS. THE COMMON AREAS.

OKAY? WHO WOULD MAINTAIN THE COMMON AREAS? THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOME SORT OF A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION THAT WOULD BE DEVELOPED, BECAUSE THE ONE THING YOU DON'T WANT TO DO IS PUT INDIVIDUALS IN THESE HOMES THAT CAN ONLY AFFORD THE HOME,

BUT NOT AFFORD ANYTHING ELSE. >> YES.

>> THAT THEN TURNS INTO ANOTHER FULL SET OF PROBLEMS.

>> I TRIED TO LOOK IT UP IN THE LIMITED TIME I HAD, HOW WAS THAT HANDLED, YOU KNOW, BACK WHEN WE WERE YOUNG, MAYBE BEFORE WE WERE EVEN YOUNG. RIGHT? HOW THAT WAS HANDLED , AND I DIDN'T REALLY SEE ANY CLARITY ON IT, BUT THERE ARE DESIGN FIRMS FOR NONPROFITS OUT THERE KIND OF JUST TRYING TO PROMOTE THIS IDEA AGAIN. SO, I'M SURE THEY HAVE AN ANSWER

TO THE QUESTION. >> IF YOU WATCH SOME MOVIES WITH THESE TYPES OF DEVELOPERS.

>> MOVIES LOVE THEM. THEY ALWAYS SHOW UP.

>> BUT THERE'S ALWAYS A LANDLORD WITH USUALLY RENTAL PROPERTIES, AND THE LANDLORD WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR TAKING CARE OF COMMON AREAS. IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WE ARE LOOKING AT HOMEOWNERSHIP. I WOULDN'T WANT TO SEE -- I ALSO WOULD NOT WANT TO SEE -- UNLESS A COMPANY WOULD WANT TO COME IN AND DO THAT -- YOU KNOW -- HAVE, LIKE, THREE, FOUR, OR FIVE OF THESE PARTICULAR STRUCTURES BEING OWNED AT RENTAL PROPERTIES THAT ARE REALLY BEING TAKEN CARE OF. I HAVE A NUMBER OF RENTAL PROPERTIES IN MY AGE WAY THAT SOME OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS TAKE REALLY GOOD CARE OF THEIR RENTAL HOMES, AND I HAVE A FEW OTHERS THAT DON'T , AND THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT YOU ALWAYS

HAVE PROBLEMS WITH. >> I DON'T HAVE A SOLUTION FOR IT, BUT I HAVE JUST BEEN THINKING IN TERMS OF, LIKE YOU SAY, WOULD IT BE A SMALL HOAS, OR MAYBE EVEN A CO-OP?

>> SOMETHING. >> SOMETHING LIKE THAT THAT WOULD HAVE -- NOT JUST THE RESPONSIBILITY -- BUT IT WOULD BE MORE, TO ME, LIKE A CO-OP. EVERYBODY WOULD BUY A PIECE, BUT THEY'RE ALL RESPONSIBLE , BUT THOSE ARE QUESTIONS I REALLY DIDN'T LOOK UP. I JUST LIKE THE IDEA OF THESE LITTLE

HOMES. >> THE IDEA IS GREAT.

>> THIS ONE WAS UP AND RUNNING, IN DUVALL COUNTY, AND IT IS CALLED THE WILEY ROAD LITTLE COMMUNITY RENTAL UNITS, AND WE TALK ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND THAT SORT OF STUFF, BUT IT IS NOT JUST AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO BUY, IT IS ALSO AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO RENT . WHAT YOU RENT FOR $1700 , I HAVE GOT A GARAGE THAT IS BIGGER THAN WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE PAY 17 OR $1800 FOR RENT. THIS ONE, THERE'S NO PARKING WITHIN THE COMPOUNDS, NO GARAGES, THERE'S ONE PARKING SPACE PER TWO UNITS WITH AN OVERFLOW PARKING SPACE SOMEPLACE ELSE. THERE'S LOTS OF COURTYARDS, THAT SORT OF STUFF, SO IT IS KIND OF A WALKING COMMUNITY. THE RENTAL RATE ON THIS IS 1/2 OF WHAT YOU WOULD GET FROM AN APARTMENT BUILDING, AND THIS ISN'T AN ANSWER, THIS IS JUST ONE PIECE OF THE WHOLE PUZZLE , YOU KNOW, POSSIBLY SOMEBODY CAN AFFORD $800 IN RENT FROM WHAT I'M GETTING PAID, BUT NOT UNTIL I CAN GET ENOUGH MONEY TO INVEST IN SOMETHING BETTER , OR EVEN INVEST IN MY HOME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT OUTSIDE OF THAT, I GOT THIS FROM THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT IN DUVALL COUNTY , AND IT IS ORGANIZED UNDER A PUD . LET'S SEE , WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS HERE? IT IS PRIVATELY OWNED, RURAL COMMUNITY , LANDLORD TAKES CARE OF THE GROUND , HE HAS GOT CORN OFTEN OPERATED -- COIN-OPERATED

[02:15:08]

THERE'S NO MINIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE . IN OTHER WORDS, IT HAS GOT TO BE AT LEAST 800 SQUARE FEET OR SOMEBODY TO THAT EFFECT. OF COURSE, SOMEBODY IS NOT GOING TO RENT SOMETHING THAT JUST GOES IN A PHONE BOOTH, GO IN AND CHANGE HER

CLOTHES AND COME BACK OUT. >> BASIN, ONE BEDROOM, ONE THAT , 500 SOME ODD SQUARE FEET. A TINY HOME. BUNGALOW SOUNDS A

LOT BETTER. >> IT DOES, BUT LIKE I SAID, THIS IS JUST ONE PIECE OF THE PUZZLE. THAT IS ANOTHER PIECE.

YOU KNOW, IF WE GO OUT THERE AND START RESEARCHING, THAT IS ANOTHER ELEMENT OUT WEST ALONG THE GULF COAST THAT BECAME VERY POPULAR . IT WAS NOT NECESSARY ZERO-LOT , ZERO-WALL LINE, BUT INDIVIDUAL HOMES . I FORGET WHAT IT WAS CALLED.

>> SEASIDE, THAT'S THE ONE? >> YEAH.

>> I HAVE BEEN THERE. THEY'RE ATTRACTIVE, AND I STAYED IN A RENTAL THERE . MY IMPRESSION WAS THAT THEY WERE PRETTY EXPENSIVE , WELL, ON THE GULF , BUT VERY ATTRACTIVE .

>> BUT WE JUST NEED TO GET OUTSIDE THE BOX .

>> THAT IS THE MAIN THING. WE ARE LOCKED INTO A CERTAIN IDEA . YOU KNOW, I GREW UP IN RIVERSIDE. YOU HAVE HEARD ME SAY THAT BEFORE. ONE OF THE ATTRACTIONS TO THAT WAS THOSE WERE NOT LARGE LOTS, FOR THE MOST PART, SETBACKS WERE NOT THAT BIG, BUT THERE WAS IN THIS IDEA, NOPE, YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING BUT SINGLE-FAMILY HOME HERE, AND YOU CAN DO ANYTHING WITH APARTMENTS HERE. ON THE STREET THAT I LIVED ON, THERE WAS A CORNER GROCERY STORE ON THE CORNER , THEN THERE WAS A FOURPLEX APARTMENT, AND THERE ARE SOME PRETTY LARGE HOMES TOO , LITTLE BUNGALOW OR COTTAGE HOMES .

>> YEAH. THAT DESIGN HAS ENDURED IN RIVERSIDE AVONDALE.

YOU CAN STILL FIND THAT , AND THE APARTMENT BUILDINGS HAVE

BECOME CONDOS. >> WOULD ALLOW YOURSELF TO IMAGINE SOMEBODY WHO BROUGHT THIS FORWARD .

>> THOSE PEOPLE -- >> A LOT OF THEM -- I'M NOT TRY TO PUT IT OUT -- LOVE THE IDEA --

>> A LOT OF THAT WOULD DEPEND ON WHERE YOU ARE PROPOSING TO PUT IT. DID IT MAKE SENSE? THAT IS ALWAYS IS MY POINT -- DOES THE DEVELOPMENT MAKE SENSE FOR THE LOCATION THAT THEY WANT TO PUT IT IN? A REALLY GOOD PLAN, JUST IN THE WRONG PLACE. RIGHT?

>> YEAH. >> SO, YOU JUST HAVE TO FIGURE -- BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING.

>> YEAH. >> HE IS GETTING READY TO

RETIRE. >> WILEY ROAD, THINK ABOUT THE LOCATION OF IT IT WOULD MAKE SENSE THERE. YOU ARE RIGHT. IT IS NOT GOING TO GO ON THE GENTLEMAN'S LOT AT THE END OF -- HAVE GOT TO FIGURE, THESE WILL BE LOWER-INCOME PEOPLE, YOU ARE HELPING THEY DON'T HAVE MORE THAN ONE CAR , SO YOU DON'T NEED A TON OF PARKING, YOU CAN PARK OFF TO THE SIDE, AND WHAT WE'RE LACKING IN CLAY COUNTY IS ANY KIND OF REAL PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, ALTHOUGH IT HAS GOTTEN BETTER.

>> DEFINITELY GETTING BETTER. >> YOU KNOW? SO, THIS IS NOT WHAT I WOULD CALL TRANSIENT-ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT KIND OF FALLS IN THE SAME CATEGORY, THAT THESE PEOPLE WOULD NEED ACCESS TO THE BUS LINE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW? I'M THINKING -- I HAVE NO PARTICULAR PIECE OF PROPERTY IN MIND, BUT IT WOULD BE ON 220. WE HAVE GOT THAT BUS THING RIGHT THERE ON 220 FROM JTA . RIGHT?

>> THE PARK AND RIDE? >> YEAH. THE PARK AND RIDE IS

THERE. >> TWO OR THREE.

>> TWO OR THREE PEOPLE EVERY DAY. BUT, THIS IS REALLY JUST TO BRING THIS UP , AND HOPEFULLY, SINCE WE STARTED THIS DISCUSSION LAST MONTH, THAT WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT.

YOU KNOW? >> I THINK IT IS AN IDEA WHOSE TIME HAS COME, AND WE NEED TO BE EDUCATED ABOUT IT. THIS IS VERY HELPFUL TO ME. I APPRECIATE YOUR BRINGING THIS FORWARD. ANY OTHER ITEMS OF NEW OR OLD BUSINESS WE NEED TO DEAL

WITH TONIGHT? >> TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT THE

NEXT MEETING IS -- >> I PLAN TO COVER THAT. NEXT MEETING IS THURSDAY, AUGUST 29TH , WHICH WAS THE THURSDAY BEFORE LABOR DAY, I THINK, AND WE NEED TO HAVE OUR FINAL PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD.LET ME OPEN THAT. I DO NOT HAVE ANY

[02:20:02]

AGAIN, WITH A REMINDER, OUR NEXT MEETING IS ON A THURSDAY, AUGUST 29TH . THAT

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.