[Call to Order] [00:00:11] >>> I CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. I WELCOME YOU TO THE CLAY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 5, 2023. THE MEETING IS NOW CALLED TO ORDER. AND I'M GOING TO ASK COMMISSIONER LANCE ADDISON TO NOW LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. >> I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. >> I FEEL A LITTLE SILLY SAYING THIS BECAUSE I THINK ALMOST EVERYBODY KNOWS MY NAME IS MARY BRIDGMAN AND I'M THE CHAIR OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. AND THE MINUTES FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING WILL BE TAKEN BY CHRISTINE BLANCHETT, RECORDING SECRETARY FROM THE CLERK'S COURT'S OFFICE. OTHER STAFF INCLUDE OUR DIRECTOR OF PLANNING & ZONING. MIKE BROWN, OUR ZONING CHIEF. BETH CARSON, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF PLANNING & ZONING. AND WE HAVE OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY. AND I BELIEVE THAT COMPLETES THE LIST OF FOLKS PRESENT TONIGHT FROM THE STAFF. SO TO INTRODUCE THE COMMISSIONERS, WE HAVE ON MY LEFT, LANCE ADDISON, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S REPRESENTATIVE. BILL GARRISON, HERE'S PETE DAVIS, HOWARD NOR TON, RALPH PUCKHABER AND MYSELF. THE PLANNING COMMISSION MAKES RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OR BCC. AND THEY WILL HAVE THEIR FINAL SAY AT THEIR MEETINGS ON EITHER SEPTEMBER 12TH OR SEPTEMBER 26TH WHICH ARE 1 OR 3 WEEKS FROM TONIGHT. THE ZONING PORTION OF THE BCC MEETING IS HELD DURING THE REGULAR BCC MEETING WHICH STARTS AT 4:00 P.M. AND PLEASE CHECK THE BCC AGENDA FOR THOSE ITEMS. IF THERE IS AN ITEM ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA THAT YOU WISH TO SPEAK ABOUT, PLEASE FILL OUT ONE OF THE COMMENT CARDS WHICH CAN BE FOUND IN THE ENTRY VESTIBULE AND GIVE IT TO MS. BLANCHETT. AT THIS TIME PLEASE PUT YOUR CELL PHONES ON SILENT OR VIBRATE. IF YOU NEED TO TAKE A CALL IN [1.  Approval of Minutes] THE MEETING, PLEASE STEP OUTSIDE. IF YOU NEED TO LEAVE DURING THE MEETING, PLEASE DO SO QUIETLY. THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA WOULD BE THE APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF THE AUGUST 1ST MEETING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. DO I HEAR A MOTION? MR. DAVIS MADE A MOTION. AND MR. PUCKHABER SECONDED. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED SAME SIGN? AND THE MINUTES OF THE AUGUST 1ST MEETING ARE APPROVED. NOW THE NEXT MEETING ON THE AGENDA IS THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. AT THIS TIME ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC MAY COMMENT ON ITEMS NOT INCLUDED ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA, BUT PERTINENT TO THE BUSINESS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. I DO NOT HAVE ANY COMMENT CARDS. SO I IMAGINE PROBABLY NO ONE WANTS TO SPEAK, BUT I'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN PUBLIC COMMENT. SEEING NO ONE APPROACH THE PODIUM, I'LL CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT AND WE'LL GO ON TO THE NEXT ITEM. BEFORE WE BEGIN THE PUBLIC HEARING, MS. BLANCHETT WILL SWEAR IN ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF OR IN OPPOSITION TO ANY APPLICATION. SO IS THERE ANYONE WHO PLANS TO SPEAK ON ANY ITEM ON THE AGENDA? NO, OKAY. WE'LL PROCEED TO OUR FIRST ITEM. [1.  Public Hearing to consider application ZON-0723-00017. District 4, Commissioner Condon (M.Brown)] THIS IS AN AGENDA-THE ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER ZON-0723-00017. AND MR. BROWN WILL PRESENT THAT. >> MADAM CHAIR AND BOARD, APPLICATION ZON-0723-00017 IS AN APPLICATION BY DISCOVERY SERVICES LLC REQUESTING A ZONING CHANGE ON 1.02 ACRES FROM BA-TWO COMMERCIAL & PROFESSIONAL OFFICE TO BB-TWO COMMUNITY BUSINESS. PARCEL IS LOCATED AT 4493 COUNTY [00:05:01] ROAD 218. IT'S IN THE MIDDLE BIRD CLAY HILL PLANNING DISTRICT, COMMISSION DISTRICT 4. THIS WILL BE HEARD BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IN THEIR SEPTEMBER 26TH MEETING AT 5:00 P.M. TIME CERTAIN. THE PARCEL IS DESIGNATED COMMERCIAL ON THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP. IT'S LOCATED APPROXIMATELY TWO MILES WEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF COUNTY ROAD 218. SOUTH AND WEST OF THE PARCEL THE PROPERTIES ARE ZONED AR, AGRICULTURAL RESIDENTIAL. AND NORTH ACROSS COUNTY ROAD 218 THE PROPERTIES ARE AGRICULTURAL RESIDENTIAL AND BA. THE DESIRE FOR THE REZONING IS TO FACILITATE THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN OFFICE AND ACCESSORY BUILDINGS TO SUPPORT A PEST CONTROL BUSINESS. THE PRESENT BA-2 ZONING AS YOU WERE AWARE LIMITS THE GROSS FLOOR AREA OF BUILDINGS TO 2500 SQUARE FEET FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROFESSIONAL OFFICES. AND THAT'S THE REASON FOR THE REQUEST TO THE BB-2. THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE LARGER THAN LIMITS THAT ARE PLACED BY THE BA-2 ZONING. HERE YOU CAN SEE AN AERIAL AND A ZONING MAP SHOWING THE ZONING AROUND THE SUBJECT PARCEL WHICH IS OUTLINED IN RED OR YELLOW ON THE AERIAL. AS I INDICATED, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A ZONING CHANGE FROM BA-2 TO BB-2 FOR 1.02 ACRES. THE BB-2, REQUESTED BB-2 ZONING IS ALLOWED IN COMMERCIAL FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION. STAFF HAS REVIEWED THE APPLICATION AND DETERMINED THAT THE REQUEST IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUNDING AREA. THE MIDDLEBURG CLAY HILL COMMITTEE REVIEWED THE PROJECT ON AUGUST 21ST. AND THEY VOTED 6-0 TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF APPLICATION ZON-0723-00017. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF THE STAFF. >> I JUST HAVE ONE. >> GO AHEAD. >> DOES THIS PROPERTY FALL IN THE CLAY HILL OVERLAY? >> NO, IT DOES NOT. >> WHERE DOES THAT OVERLAY START? >> THIS IS EAST OF THE CLAY HILL OVERLAY PLAN BY A MILE. A MILE AND A HALF, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I DO HAVE A QUESTIO. >> GO AHEAD. >> SO IN THE STAFF ASSESSMENT RECOMMENDATION, IT SAYS UTILITIES WILL INCLUDE ON SITE WELL AND SEPTIC TANK. I'M UNDER THE IMPRESSION THERE ARE UTILITIES THERE. I COULD BE WRONG. >> THEY ARE IN THE PROXIMITY, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY MEET THE STATE STATUTE LIMITATIONS ON FORCE TO BE HOOKED UP, TIED INTO IT. THAT WILL BE A DETERMINATION BY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT. >> YEAH, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE DRC PROCESS AND I KNOW CCUA SETS IN ON THOSE. SO THAT WAS THE ONE COMMENT. AND THE OTHER IS JUST A COMMENT. I NOTICED THAT ONE OF THE CONDITIONAL USES AND EDUCATE ME ON THE CONDITIONAL USES. TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF CONDITIONAL USES, BECAUSE IT'S NOT, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THIS SPECIFIC REQUEST, BUT SHOULD THIS NOT GO FORWARD AND IT HAS THE BB-2 ZONING AND THEY WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SOME OF THE CONDITIONAL USES, DO THEY HAVE TO COME BACK AND REQUEST SPECIFIC APPROVAL FOR CONDITIONAL USES? >> THEY HAVE TO, ALL OF THE CONDITIONAL USES THAT ARE ALLOWED HAVE BY THE NAME CONDITIONAL USE HAS SPECIFIC CONDITIONS THAT HAVE TO BE MET BEFORE YOU CAN DO THAT USE. >> OKAY. >> NOW THAT IS JUST AN ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF DETERMINATION. BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO SHOW THAT THEY WILL MEET ALL OF THOSE CONDITIONS BEFORE A CONDITIONAL USE COULD BE APPROVED. >> OKAY. AND I'LL JUST GO AHEAD AND TELL YOU SPECIFICALLY, THE ONE THAT CAUGHT MY EYE WAS THE ABILITY TO DO LAND CLEARING, DEBRIS DISPOSAL FACILITY. AND THERE'S ALREADY ONE OF THOSE PLACES ON 218 NOT TOO FAR FROM HERE, AND IT IS QUITE THE [00:10:01] EYESORE. THEY STORE THEIR DEBRIS. >> THE REQUIREMENTS OF THAT WOULD MAKE IT EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO PUT IT ON THIS PARCEL. BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVE THAT THEY CAN COMPLY WITH ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS. AND ALSO ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF THAT IS TO HAVE THE PERMIT FROM D.E.P. . >> THANK YOU. >> MR. DAVIS. >> YOU STATED IN YOUR WRITE UP THAT THERE IS A DRAINAGE EASEMENT. IS THAT ON THE PROPERTY? >> BY THE REAR, I THINK. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S IN THE REAR OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. >> BUT IT'S ON THIS PROPERTY? >> YES, THERE IS AN EASEMENT. THEY'RE AWARE OF IT. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? JOE. >> IS THIS THE PROPERTY WE SAW LAST MONTH? >> NO. THIS IS NOT THE ONE WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO BUILD THE -- >> NO. >> OKAY, THANK YOU. >> ALL RIGHT. RALPH. >> I JUST WANTED TO RESPOND TO COMMISSIONER GARRISON ABOUT THE LAND CLEARING AND DEBRIS. IF YOU LOOK THROUGH OUR CODE, THAT THING IS ALL OVER THE CODE AND I HAD THE SAME CONCERN THAT YOU HAD FROM TIME TO TIME. AND I WAS TOLD IT ORIGINALLY GOT IN THERE LIKE IF THEY'RE BUILDING LIKE A SUBDIVISION OR THEY'RE BUILDING SOMETHING, TO TEMPORARILY STORE THEIR DEBRIS THERE DURING CONSTRUCTION. BUT IT DOESN'T READ THAT WAY IN THE CODE. AND MAYBE IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT DURING THIS WHOLE CODE REWRITE, WE MAY WANT TO LOOK AT. >> I'M GOING TO BRING THAT UP LATER. >> MAKE SURE THEY LOCK THAT DOWN A LITTLE BIT BETTER. >> JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, STAFF IS AWARE OF THAT AND WE ARE LOOKING AT THAT. >> THANK YOU. >> ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. BROWN? SO WE'LL SEE, IS THERE ANYONE PRESENT REPRESENTING THE APPLICANT? WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TONIGHT? IF SO, PLEASE COME FORWARD. AND I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO BE SWORN. MS. BLANCHETT WILL ADMINISTER THE OATH. >> DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP YOU GOD. >> YES. >> IF YOU WOULD STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS BEFORE YOU BEGIN AND SPEAK INTO THE MIC SO WE CAN HEAR YOU. >> MY NAME IS ROBERT RUSHMORE. MY ADDRESS IS 2345 INDIA AVENUE IN MIDDLEBURG. I JUST HAD A QUICK QUESTION REAL QUICK. YOU GUYS TALKED ABOUT THE STORING OF DEBRIS FOR THE LAND CLEARING ON THE PROPERTY. > THAT WOULD NOT AFFECT JUST THE CLEARING. YOU'RE JUST CLEARING FOR -- >> YES. I THOUGHT THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOME CONFUSION THERE. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU GUYS UNDERSTOOD WE WEREN'T DOING ANYTHING LIKE THAT. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE PRESENT WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS APPLICATION? I HAVE NO COMMENT CARDS INDICATING THAT THERE ARE. AT THIS POINT, I DON'T THINK I OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING. SO I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. AND NOT BEING AWARE OF ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK, I'LL CLOSE IT AND BRING IT BACK TO THE -- WELL I DID WANT TO ASK IF THERE WAS ANYONE HERE FROM THE CITIZEN'S ADVISORY COUNCIL THAT WANTED TO SPEAK. THE MIDDLEBURG CLAY HILL CITIZEN'S ADVISORY COUNCIL. IS THERE ANYONE? WE DO HAVE THEIR MEMORANDUM AND MINUTES OF THEIR MEANING SO WE KNOW THE POSITION, BUT I THOUGHT I SHOULD ASK. SO NOW THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED AND WE'LL HAVE A DISCUSSION IF THERE ARE ANY ITEMS THAT THE COMMISSION WANTS TO -- ARE WE READY FOR A MOTION? >> BILL HAS SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS ONE. >> NO. I'VE GOT A LOT TO SAY ABOUT EVERYTHING. NO, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE THIS. >> I'LL SECOND THAT. >> WE'VE GOT A MOTION AND A SECOND. IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. [2.  Public Hearing to consider ZON-0823-00019. (B. Carson)] >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED SAME SIGN. MOTION CARRIES. ITEM NUMBER TWO ON THE AGENDA IS A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER ZON-0823-00019 PRESENTED BY CARSON, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF PLANNING & ZONING. >> GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR AND [00:15:02] BOARD. THIS TIME, WE HAVE LOTS OF NUMBERS IN OUR NEW CODE SYSTEM. SO THIS ITEM IS ZONED 0823-00019 WHICH IS A LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE XII WHICH IS OUR ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEMENT REGULATIONS. THIS IS A COUNTY-INITIATED ITEM AND IT WILL BE GOING TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS NEXT TUESDAY. SO SECTION 12-6 OF ARTICLE XII ADDRESSES THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. IT IS COMPRISED OF FIVE CITIZEN VOLUNTEER MEMBERS THAT AR APPOINTED BY THE BCC. THEY MEET MONTHLY AS NEEDED FOR THE PURPOSE OF HEARING APPEALS, INTERPRETATIONS OF CODE AND VARIANCE REQUESTS. AND JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THE NUMBER OF ITEMS THEY'VE HAD OVER THE LAST YEAR, I'VE GIVEN YOU A BREAKDOWN OF WHAT THEY ARE PER MONTH. YOU'LL SEE FOR THE MOST PART THERE ARE 1 OR 2 ITEMS PER MONTH. WE DID HAVE A COUPLE OF MONTHS THAT WE HAD A LOT, 4 AND 5. WE ALSO HAVE MONTHS, OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER OF 22 WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE MEETINGS. AND THAT MAY HAVE BEEN A QUORUM ISSUE AT THAT POINT. SO THE REASON FOR THIS PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS THAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING A DECLINING MEMBERSHIP IN OUR BOARD AND HAVING SOME DIFFICULTY GETTING VOLUNTEERS. THAT GIVES US THE RISK OF HAVING A LACK OF QUORUM AND THEN WE CAN NO LONGER CARRY OUT THE MEETING IN THE REQUEST OF OUR APPLICANTS. SO THIS PROPOSED AMENDMENT WOULD SEEK TO SHIFT THE DUTIES OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TO YOU AS A BOARD, THE PLANNING COMMISSION. THAT IS DONE AT THE CITY OF JACKSONVILLE THEY USE THEIR PLANNING COMMISSION TO HANDLE VARIANCES AS WELL AS OKEECHOBEE COUNTY AND OTHERS. ST. JOHN'S COUNTY, WE ALWAYS LOOK TO OUR NEIGHBORS TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING. ST. JOHN'S COUNTY USES A COMBINATION, THEY USE THEIR PLANNING & ZONING AGENCY AS WELL AS THEIR OVERLAY BOARD AND THEIR BCC DEPENDING ON THE ISSUE AND THE LOCATION OF THEIR REQUEST. SO IF THIS ITEM IS APPROVED, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ITEMS WOULD BE HEARD FOLLOWING THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. IT WOULD NOT BE A SEPARATE NIGHT. IT WOULD EITHER BE ADDED TO YOUR AGENDA OR THERE WOULD BE A SEPARATE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AGENDA. WE DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD WORK THAT OUT. IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT APPLICATION. YOUR PLANNING COMMISSION ITEMS ARE A RECOMMENDATION, WHEREAS THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ITEMS ARE A FINAL. THAT IS NOT A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD. WITH THAT, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL TO PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO ZON-0823-00019. AND I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE. >> QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? >> WHO WANTS TO GO FIRST? >> I'D LIKE TO JUST ASK ONE QUESTION BEFORE WE GET INTO THE REAL DISCUSSION. HOW MANY OF US HAVE ATTENDED A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HEARING? YOU'VE BEEN TO ONE. >> I HAVE. >> I'VE BEEN TO A COUPLE. >> I'VE BEEN TO ONE IN 20 YEARS. >> I'VE BEEN TO ONE RECENTLY. >> I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF ANYBODY UNDERSTOOD WHAT WE WERE GETTING INTO. >> I WAS GOING TO ASK BETH TO EXPLAIN IT. I HAVE A VAGUE UNDERSTANDING OF IT, BUT WOULD APPRECIATE REDEFINING WHAT IT IS THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> ANOTHER THING I WANTED TO MENTION IS ALTHOUGH STAFF WILL, I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY WANT TO DO THIS AND SO ON. IF YOU READ THE ORDINANCE OR THE -- WE GET TO DECIDE THAT, NOT STAFF. SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND. >> YEAH, BUT THERE ARE SPECIFIC CRITERIA IF I REMEMBER. >> YES. >> WELL THAT'S FOR THE ACTUAL INFORMATION YOU'RE TAKING? >> YEAH. >> I'M TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE DO WE WANT TO DO IT AS A SEPARATE MEETING ON A SEPARATE NIGHT. DO WE WANT IT FOLLOWING THE MEETING, WITHIN THE MEETING. WE GET TO MAKE THOSE RULES. >> CAN I ASK A QUICK QUESTION? >> GO AHEAD, BUT THERE'S ALREADY A QUESTION THAT MR. GARRISON ASKED. >> JUST IN THE MATTER OF DISCUSSION, I'M CERTAINLY WILLING TO WAIT MY TURN. >> I THINK HOW THIS WOULD BE ORGANIZED, OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY WOULD PROBABLY GIVE US SOME ADVICE ON THAT. AND THE INTENT IS NOT TO HAVE YOU HAVE TO COME BACK FOR ANOTHER NIGHT BECAUSE YOUR TIME IS VALUABLE MUCH LIKE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT VOLUNTEERS. YOU'RE ALSO VOLUNTEERS. COURTNEY MAY SAY DIFFERENTLY ON THAT, AND THEN I'LL GET BACK TO [00:20:01] THE OTHER QUESTIONS. >> I'D MAKE A COMMENT. >> GO AHEAD. >> SO WHAT I EXPERIENCED AT A MEETING THAT I ATTENDED IN 2022 IT'S LIKE I DON'T KNOW MID-2022, 1 OF THOSE JUNE TO SEPTEMBER MEETINGS. THERE WERE MULTIPLE ITEMS. IT COULD HAVE BEEN THAT JUNE MEETING WITH THE FOUR ITEMS. EVERYTHING WAS ZONING RELATED. THERE WAS NOTHING IN THERE WITH RESPECT TO ANY KIND OF PLANNING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. AND WHAT HAPPENS IN MY EXPERIENCE WITH THAT IS I SAW PEOPLE COME FORTH TO WANT TO REALLY STRETCH THE BOUNDS OF WHAT THEY WANT TO DO ON THEIR PROPERTIES BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE SET KIND OF IN STONE IN OUR ZONING LAWS. AND WE WANT TO BUILD THIS OR WE WANT TO DO THIS, WE WANT TO DO THAT. AND THEY'RE REALLY KIND OF STRETCHING THOSE BOUNDARIES LIKE I SAID. SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT AS PART OF THIS MEETING, BUT AFTER THE AGENDA THAT WE HAVE FOR WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW, AT THE END I WOULD LIKE TO MAYBE SEE IT THERE. >> THAT BRINGS TO MY QUESTION IS I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE AGENDA ITEMS ARE LIKE, BUT IF THEY ARE LEANING TOWARDS ZONING ISSUES, WOULD WE HAVE ANY KIND OF AN AREA FOR CONFLICT HERE? BECAUSE IF WE'RE -- THEN WE HAVE OVERSIGHT OVER THAT ONE AS WELL. SEE WHERE I'M GOING WITH THAT? >> I UNDERSTAND. SO TYPICALLY YOU HEAR REZONINGS AND COMP PLAN AMENDMENTS, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES. AN ITEM THAT IS GOING TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS AN APPEAL FROM A STAFF ENFORCE. OF THE CODE THAT WE ARE TASKED WITH ENFORCING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. IF THEY WANT AS YOU SAY TO STRETCH THE CODE OR THEY WANT SOME, WANT TO BE ALLEVIATED OF A POLICY OR THEY CAN DEMONSTRATE A HARDSHIP, MIKE BROWN PROBABLY IS BEHIND ME CHOMPING AT THE BIT. I'M TRYING TO HELP HIM OUT ON THIS. >> THE FIRST ONE, AN EXAMPLE OF THE INTERPRETATION THAT WE HAD IT'S PROBABLY BEEN, THAT ONE DOESN'T HAPPEN VERY OFTEN, BUT IT HAPPENED PROBABLY A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WAS THERE WAS A DISAGREEMENT FROM A DEVELOPER WHO WAS APPLYING I THINK IT WAS IN THE DRI THE SETBACKS FOR A TOWNHOME HOW THEY DEFINED WHAT THE SETBACK WAS GOING TO BE AND THEN HOW STAFF INTERPRETED IT. AND SO THEY WANTED TO CHALLENGE STAFF'S INTERPRETATION, SO IT WENT TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS. SO THAT'S THAT TYPE OF THING. >> IF THAT DOES COME UP, I DON'T KNOW WHO WHEN THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS MAKES THEIR DECISION, IS THAT THE FINAL? >> YEAH. >> SO DOES THAT FINAL THEN BECOME, DOES THAT HAVE AN IMPACT ON POLICY? MR. SMITH GOT AN ADJUSTMENT ON HIS POLICY BECAUSE OF THIS, THIS, AND THIS. I LIVE NEXT DOOR TO MR. SMITH, I WANT TO DO THE SAME THING. >> THE INTERPRETATION IS ONE THING, AND THE NEXT PART I THINK BETH WAS GETTING TO IS EXAMPLES THAT THE MOST NORMAL WOULD BE SIDE SETBACKS OR HEIGHT. LIKE WE'VE HAD A FEW WITH HEIGHT. AND THEY HAVE TO COME IN AND THE PURPOSE IS THEY HAVE TO SHOW A HARDSHIP. SO AN EXAMPLE IS I NEED THE SIDE SETBACK MAYBE EIGHT FEET OR TEN FEET. BUT I HAVE THIS GORGEOUS TREE RIGHT HERE AND THERE'S NO WAY TO GET MY SHED TO THE BACKYARD AND TO COMPLY WITH THIS AND THEY BASICALLY PLEAD THEIR CASE WITH YOU AS TO WHETHER YOU WANT TO ALLOW THEM TO PUT THEIR SHED CLOSER WITHIN THE SETBACK OR NOT TO SAVE THE TREE. AND USUALLY THE PEOPLE THAT ATTEND, THEY HAVE TO DO NOTICES, SO THEIR NEIGHBORS ALL KNOW. AND SO THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD ATTEND WOULD BE THE NEIGHBORS AND THEY EITHER SAY YEAH, IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME, I HAVE TREES HERE OR YES IT BOTHERS ME. IS IT SIX FACTORS? THERE'S SIX DIFFERENT CRITERIA YOU GO THROUGH TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOU CONSIDER IT A HARDSHIP. >> PETE, I WILL TELL YOU I'VE BEEN TO SEVERAL OF THEM. MOST OF THEM ARE SETBACK ISSUES. BECAUSE OF THE SHAPE OF THE LOT OR SOMETHING. THE IMPORTANT THING IS IF YOU READ THIS, THE ORDINANCE AND ALL, IT CAN'T BE A PROBLEM THAT THE LANDOWNER CREATED AND THEN COME IN AND ASK FOR A VARIANCE OVER SOMETHING THEY CREATED. I SHARE YOUR CONCERNS, BUT I THINK THEY'RE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT BECAUSE WITH ZONING WE HAVE A SET OF RULES EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE TO INTERPRET THEM AND FACTOR THINGS IN WITH THE BOARD OF [00:25:04] ADJUSTMENT. AND OURS IS A RECOMMENDATION. WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, THEY LOOK AT IT MORE AS EVIDENCE AND MAKE A DECISION WHICH IS FINAL. I THINK THE ONLY APPEAL FROM THEIR DECISION IS TO GO TO COURT, TAKE IT TO CIRCUIT COURT AND THAT'S THE ONLY. SO IF THEY'RE NOT HAPPY WITH WHAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT SAYS, THEY CAN'T GO TO THE COMMISSIONERS. THEY'VE GOT TO GO TO A JUDGE AND LOOK FOR RELIEF THERE. IT HAS HAPPENED BY THE WAY I BELIEVE AT LEAST ONCE THAT I'M AWARE OF. AND WHILE I'VE GOT THE FLOOR, ONE OTHER COMMENT I WANTED TO MAKE ABOUT THE MEETING, IF WE MOVED FORWARD WITH THIS, WHAT MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE IS WE HAVE OUR ZONING AND PLANNING MEETING AS WE'RE DOING NOW. WE ADJOURN THAT MEETING. MAYBE TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK AND THEN OPEN UP THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. SO THERE'S NO COMMINGLING OF THAT BUSINESS TO YOUR POINT. IT'S COMPLETELY SEPARATE. >> MY POINT ON THAT WAS I MADE A DECISION BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONCERNING THE ZONING ISSUE. THEN DURING MY HAT AS CHAIR OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, I'M BEING ASKED TO MAKE THAT DECISION AGAIN. BUT IT'S GOT TO BE CERTAIN CRITERIA IT HAS TO MEET BEFORE IT MEETS THAT. >> NOT REALLY BECAUSE FIRST OF ALL IF YOU READ THIS, RECENTLY THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT DID GET INTO THE ZONING BUSINESS AND WE QUASHED THAT. THAT WAS THAT MINI WAREHOUSE THING ON 220 THAT THEY APPROVED AS A VARIANCE WHEN IT WASN'T ZONED FOR THAT. SO IF YOU READ THIS, THEY CAN'T CHANGE ZONING. IT'S VERY SPECIFIC WHAT THEY DO. IT'S MOSTLY SETBACKS. I SAT IN ON ONE THAT WAS KINGSLEY LAKE. THEY WANTED TO BUILD SOMETHING OR ADD ONTO THEIR HOUSE. BUT THOSE LOTS ARE VERY FUNNY SHAPED AND THEY COULDN'T CLEAR A SIDE SETBACK AND THEY APPROVED THAT. BUT THEY CAME IN HERE WITH SITE PLANS AND FLOOR PLANS AND BUILDING AND HERE'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO, WOULD YOU ALLOW US TO DO THIS. AND IN THE SAME MEETING, THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE WHERE THEY WANTED TO REDUCE A SIDE SETBACK AND THEY DENIED IT BECAUSE THEY WERE CONCERNED, AT LEAST THEIR FINDING WAS THEY WERE CONCERNED THAT IT MIGHT SET PRECEDENT FOR OTHER PEOPLE WITH THE SAME ZONING THAT WOULD DO SETBACK. >> TO FOLLOW UP, THERE HAVE BEEN INSTANCES WHERE CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS WILL SEND THEM BACK AND SAY I THINK YOU CAN READJUST HOW YOUR HOUSE OR BUILDING IS GOING TO BE BUILT AND YOU CAN DO IT A CERTAIN WAY AND FIT IT THIS WAY. GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND CONTINUE IT UNTIL THE NEXT MONTH. >> I'VE SEEN THEM DO THAT TOO. >> I HAVE A QUESTION. >> GO AHEAD. >> I SAW IN THE CHART YOU LAID OUT AN AVERAGE AND IT VARIED BY MONTH. LET'S KEEP IT SIMPLE, ON THE ONES WHERE THERE'S ONLY A SINGLE ACTION THAT NIGHT, HOW LONG WERE MEETINGS TAKING? AND THE SECOND QUESTION, WHY ARE YOU HAVING PROBLEMS GETTING VOLUNTEERS? >> MIKE COULD SPEAK TO IT MORE. BUT I BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO BE LESS THAN AN HOUR. IT JUST DEPENDS ON HOW LONG YOU DISCUSS THE ITEM, HOW MUCH THE APPLICANT PRESENTS. >> IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY TOO FROM THE CHART, THE MONTH YOU HAD THE LARGE NUMBERS SEEMED TO COINCIDE WITH THE MONTHS WE HAD LARGE NUMBERS ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION. >> THERE'S NO RHYME OR REASON, IT'S JUST WHEN PEOPLE DECIDE THAT THEY WANT TO SEEK A VARIANCE. I'VE HAD SOME THAT HAVE FINISHED IN 7 OR 8. IT DEPENDS. >> IT DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH YOU DISAGREE. SO ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, WE HAVE A BUILDER, AN ENGINEER, BUILDING INSPECTOR AND THEN HE WOULD JUST BE A NORMAL CITIZEN. YOU WOULD BE YOU. >> WE HAVE FIVE MEMBERS AND ONE [00:30:01] GOT A JOB IN TEXAS AND MOVED. AND ANOTHER ONE. ANOTHER ONE GAVE NOTICE THAT'S BEEN ON IT FOR 15 YEARS AND HE WANTS TO DO SOMETHING ELSE. BUT HE'S SERVING UNTIL REPLACED. AND I CAN'T TELL YOU WHY THERE'S A DIFFICULTY FINDING VOLUNTEERS. >> I HAVE A QUESTION. WHO WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IS IT TO RECRUIT FOR THE BOARDS? >> THEY'RE APPOINTED BY THE BOARD, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. BUT ANYBODY CAN RECRUIT. >> I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S ACTIVE RECRUITMENT. IT'S ADVERTISED AND IT'S AVAILABLE. >> FUNNY THING IS I SAW THAT BEFORE I SAW OUR AGENDA. AND KIND OF PUT THE TWO TOGETHER REAL QUICK. >> I JUST WONDERED, I ASSUME THAT IT WAS THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME INTEREST IN MAKING THOSE. AND THERE'S A LIST OF FOLKS WHO HAVE VOLUNTEERED AND BEEN APPOINTED AND I WONDERED WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THEM AFTER THEY'VE BEEN APPOINT AND HAD HAVE THEY INDICATED THAT THEY NO LONGER WISH TO SERVE? >> WE'VE SPOKEN WITH THEM, OF THE ONES REMAINING, ONE HAS SERVED FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME. SO I MEAN HE TOTALLY UNDERSTANDS. THE OTHER ONE DUE TO HIS BACKGROUND I THINK WILL BE SHIFTING TO ANOTHER BOARD THAT WE HAVE AND THEN WE DO HAVE ONE INDIVIDUAL THAT WOULD BE WITHOUT A POSITION. >> A COUPLE OF THEM ARE TYPO THINGS BUT THE LINES AREN'T IN YOUR MIND SO I'M GOING TO USE THE PAGE NUMBERS AT THE BOTTOM. ON PAGE 1215, IT TALKS ABOUT DISQUALIFICATION. LET'S SEE THE NEW SECTION NUMBER WOULD BE FIVE DISQUALIFICATION. IT SAYS THIS IS WHERE YOU CAN FORCE SOMEBODY OFF THE BOARD. IT SAYS A VOTE OF TWO MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. THERE WERE SEVERAL PLACES IN HERE THAT IT LOOKS LIKE THE FACT THAT THEY WOULD GO FROM A FIVE MEMBER TO A SEVEN MEMBER BOARD WEREN'T PROPERLY ACCOUNTED FOR. THAT'S ONE OF THEM THAT I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THERE. AND HERE'S THE POWERS OF DUTIES RIGHT HERE. I'M SURE YOU READ ALL OF THIS FOR WHAT WE DO. >> YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WOULD BECOME A SEVEN MEMBER BODY? >> YEAH, BECAUSE WE WOULD REPLACE THEM. >> WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF HAVING THE SCHOOL BOARD ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS? >> PAGE 12-5. >> THAT MEETING IS ADJOURNED, I DON'T THINK HE WOULD BE ABLE TO LEAVE. >> I DON'T KNOW HOW TO COUNT. I DON'T THINK THE SCHOOL BOARD SITS ON THE BOARD OF ADJUST. . >> I MISSPOKE. I WAS WRONG. >> I WOULD ADJOURN THIS MEETING THEN START THE OTHER MEETING. LANCE COULD GO, HE DOESN'T NEED TO BE HERE. IT WOULDN'T BE A TIME CERTAIN. THAT WOULD BE THE PROBLEM, ANYBODY COMING TO DO A VARIANCE WOULD BE READY WHEN WE ARE. LET'S SEE, THERE'S ANOTHER ONE HERE. >> RALPH IS LOOKING THROUGH HIS NOTES. I'VE BEEN PRESENT AT BCC NIGHT MEETINGS WHERE WE'VE BEEN UP FOR REAPPOINTMENT AND THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER APPLICANTS THERE WHO WERE NOT GIVEN A POSITION. AND I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD BE A SOURCE OF VOLUNTEERS FOR OTHER BOARDS. >> THE OTHER ONE WAS ON PAGE 12-42. IT WAS A REVIEW OF ADMINISTRATIVE ORDERS. THIS LANGUAGE REPEATS IN DIFFERENT PLACES. IT SAYS AN AFFIRMATIVE VOTE OF FOUR OF THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD SHALL BE NECESSARY TO REVERSE ANY DECISION. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CHANGED THAT TO BE A 4 OF 7 OR IF THAT WAS 4 OF 5. [00:35:02] >> WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT. >> THERE'S SEVERAL PLACES IN HERE. >> A LOT OF THAT WAS JUST TAKEN OUT OF THE EXISTING. >> I KNOW IT WAS. I COULD TELL THAT WHEN I WAS READING IT. SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU GUYS ACCOUNTED FOR THAT STUFF. >> ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? >> I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE SIX CRITERIA SPECIFIED. I WANT TO HEAR THAT LIST. >> ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS JUST TO GIVE YOU INFORMATION. THERE ARE CERTAIN ITEMS WE RECOGNIZE ARE PRETTY COMMON. THE SETBACKS VARIANCES I DOUBT MUCH WILL HAPPEN THERE. ONE OF THE ONES WE OFTEN SEE AT THE LOCATION OF ACCESSORY STRUCTURES IN THE FRONTYARD VERSUS BACKYARD AND SIDE. WE'RE UPDATING THAT AS WE'RE UPDATING THE CODE AND MAYBE WE CAN MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO UPDATE THE CODE THAT MAY RELIEVE SOME OF THOSE REQUESTS IN THE FUTURE. NO PROMISE, BUT FROM A STAFF STANDPOINT, WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT. SO THAT MAY REDUCE A LITTLE BIT THE NUMBER THAT WE'RE SEEING. >> I'LL MAKE ONE LAST COMMENT THEN I'LL BE QUIET. I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH DOING THIS. I DO SHARE MARY'S CONCERNS ABOUT WHY THEY CAN'T SEEM TO GET MEMBERS TO SIT ON IT. I THINK IT'S MOSTLY BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT. PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT ZONING, BUT THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY DO. THEY DON'T KNOW ANY OF THAT. >> IT SEEMED TO ME LIKE IT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY, A MISSED OPPORTUNITY FOR CONSTITUENT ENGAGEMENT BY THE COMMISSIONERS. AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT COMMISSIONERS VALUED, BEING ABLE TO APPOINT THEIR CONSTITUENTS TO -- >> I THINK THEY DO, MARY. I'M NOT SO SURE I AGREE WITH THE IDEA OF RECRUITING BECAUSE THEY WILL RECRUIT LIKE-MINDED PEOPLE. AND I'VE ALWAYS FELT PART OF OUR RESPONSIBILITY JUST TO MAYBE TELL THEM WHAT THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR SOMETIMES. SO THAT'S WHY I KIND OF NOT THE RECRUITMENT. BUT THERE SHOULD BE I AGREE A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION OUT THERE ABOUT HERE'S POSITIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE IF PEOPLE WANT TO JOIN AND YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED. THERE MIGHT BE PEOPLE QUITE INTERESTED IN THIS. >> ONE OTHER FACTOR THAT MIGHT BE, IT'S VERY ODD AS YOU CAN SEE FOR US TO HAVE MORE THAN 1 OR 2. SO BECAUSE IT'S I THINK IT'S A COMMITMENT FOR PEOPLE TO LEAVE THEIR JOBS WHEREVER THEY MAY BE TO COME HERE FOR A MEETING AND ONLY BE HERE FOR 10 OR 15 MINUTES. SO YOU'RE ASKING A PERSON TO ONCE A MONTH COME AND IT'S NOT AS IN DEPTH OF INFORMATION THAT YOU GUYS HAVE TO STUDY OR THE ITEMS THAT YOU HAVE. SO THAT MIGHT BE ONE DETERRENT, I DON'T KNOW. >> WE ALSO HAVE TROUBLE GETTING VOLUNTEERS TO JOIN THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION BOARD. IT'S JUST PEOPLE ARE BUSY AND YOU ARE A UNIQUE BOARD THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN YOUR TIME AND COMMITMENT TO THIS BOARD. >> WHEN THEY'RE VOLUNTEERS, YOU'RE NOT BEING PAID AS YOU GUYS KNOW. YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE SOME COMMITMENT TO DOING THIS. >> I SAW THAT HERE AS A STRIKEOUT CONVERSATION. >> ANOTHER COMMENT TOO THAT I JUST THINK ABOUT IT, WHO WOULD WANT TO SIT UP HERE, YOU'RE JUST ABOUT GUARANTEED TO MAKE SOMEBODY MAD. THIS IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT IN THE WAY YOU DON'T ALWAYS MAKE SOMEBODY MAD. THEY'RE HERE ASKING FOR A VARIANCE AND THE CRITERIA ARE PRETTY SPECIFIC. IT CAN'T BE THEY'RE DOING WHICH OFTEN IT IS. NOW THEY'VE BUILT THEIR SHED OR WHATEVER IT IS INSIDE THE SETBACK AND HOW ABOUT A LITTLE BIT OF RELIEF. NO, HOW ABOUT YOU FOLLOW THE CODE. [00:40:01] >> I WAS INVOLVED IN LITIGATION FOR YEARS IN MY CAREER AND I WANTED TO ASK OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY HAVE YOU ALL HAD CASES WHERE THERE HAS BEEN A CASE FILED IN CIRCUIT COURT OVER THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT DECISION? >> NOT SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE. >> I MENTIONED OUR BOARD USUALLY WOULD WORK WITH THE PEOPLE AND SEND THEM BACK AND SAY THIS ISN'T A HARDSHIP. SEE IF YOU CAN DO THIS OR THAT. THEY WOULD CONTINUE IT FOR A MONTH OR TWO AND HAVE THEM COME BACK AND ADJUST IT. >> I KNOW THEY CONTINUED QUITE A BIT OF STUFF AND I CAN RECALL THREE VARIANCES I SAT IN ON AND LISTENED INTO. THREE OF THEM WERE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD SO I WAS CURIOUS WHAT WAS GOING ON. OF THE THREE, ONLY ONE WAS APPROVED. THE OTHER TWO WERE DENIED. I MENTIONED ONE BEFORE BECAUSE THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT PRECEDENT. AND THE OTHER ONE WAS SOMEBODY HAD PUT A BASICALLY A SHED IN AN AREA THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE KEPT OPEN FOR FIRE ACCESS. AND THEY HAD TO MOVE THAT SHED. >> I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. IF THIS FAILS, WHAT'S YOUR ALTERNATIVE? >> THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE BOARD. THE BOARD WILL HEAR IT NEXT WEEK AT THE AGENDA MEETING. >> SO HAS THE BOARD AND MAYBE THIS IS FOR STAFF, WHAT ARE THE COMMISSIONERS FEELINGS? HAVE THEY SAID THEY WANT TO TRY AND FILL THIS FROM OUTSIDE? HAVE THEY DECIDED THAT THEY LIKE YOUR SUGGESTION? WHAT'S THE FEEDBACK? >> THE FIRST HEARING IS NEXT TUESDAY. >> SO IF THIS FAILS HERE, THEN WHAT? IT JUST GOES TO THE BOARD AND THEN THEY'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY WANT TO DO? OKAY. >> THE CHAIR OF THE BOARD IN THE JULY 25TH MEETING I BELIEVE IT WAS DISCUSSED THIS TOPIC. AND THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HAD A POTENTIAL FOR PLANNING COMMISSION. IF YOU WANT TO GO BACK, I THINK IT WAS JULY 25TH. >> ARE WE READY? >> THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN IS IF IT'S APPROVED, WHEN DO YOU EXPECT TO DO THE IMPLEMENTATION? >> I THINK WE LOOKED AT NOVEMBER BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE SEPTEMBER AND WE WOULD THEN PUSH THE, THEY'RE TYPICALLY THE FOURTH THURSDAY OF THE MONTH. SEPTEMBER IS ALREADY SLATED. SO OCTOBER WOULD GET PUSHED TO NOVEMBER. SO WE LOOK AT THE FIRST PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. >> THIS IS MORE DIFFICULT THAN MANY OF THE ZONING THINGS THAT WE HAVE BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF REASON TO TRY TO KEEP THAT BOARD IN PLACE AND JUST FIND PEOPLE TO SIT ON IT. BUT IF THERE'S REALLY THAT BIG OF A PROBLEM, THEN I KNOW WE'RE COMMITTED OR SHOULD BE COMMITTED TO SOMETHING SOMEWHERE. >> PERHAPS WE COULD ASSIST IN RECRUITMENT. IT DOES TROUBLE ME. AND THE OTHER THING IS THAT WE'VE ALL BEEN HERE SOME PRETTY LATE EVENINGS. AND THIS ISN'T GOING TO MAKE OUR MEETINGS ANY SHORTER. TONIGHT WE HAVE A SHORT AGENDA, BUT THAT'S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE. AND I FIND THAT VERY DIFFICULT, AND I'M VERY LEERY. WHAT I APPLIED FOR WAS WHAT WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH AND THAT'S ONE THING. AND I'M A LITTLE LEERY OF TAKING ON ANYTHING ELSE PARTICULARLY IF THE MEETING TIME ISN'T ADJUSTED. >> YEAH, I 100% AGREE WITH THAT. THE ALTERNATIVE WOULD BE TO SCHEDULE A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEETING ONCE PER QUARTER AND NOT HAVE A ZONING MEETING THAT NIGHT. >> OR EVEN HAVE IT ON A DIFFERENT NIGHT. >> IDEALLY THEY CAN FIND SOME PEOPLE TO SIT ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. THAT WOULD BE THE IDEAL SOLUTION, BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A PROBLEM. I DON'T KNOW WHO THE CHAIRPERSON WAS THAT MADE THAT MEETING. BUT WHOEVER SUGGESTED IT THOUGHT THIS WAS AN ALTERNATIVE. DUVAL DOES IT. ST. JOHN'S DOES IT TO SOME DEGREE SO IT MAKES SENSE. BUT I'M WITH YOU. >> I GUESS I FEEL LIKE IF THE PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE IS THE QUORUM ISSUE, THERE ARE OTHER SOLUTIONS THAT PROBABLY OUGHT TO BE EXPLORED. THAT'S MY FEELING. SO ARE WE READY FOR A MOTION? >> I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT AFTER -- >> I'M SORRY. JOE'S REMINDING ME THAT I NEED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. SO LET ME DO THAT. IS THERE ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS? SEEING NO ONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. [00:45:03] AND ARE WE READY FOR A MOTION? >> BEFORE WE MAKE A MOTION, RALPH, HOW DO YOU FEEL? I KNOW YOU'VE SAT IN ON IT. I'VE SAT IN ON IT. HOW DO YOU FEEL? WE DO ALL OF THESE ZONING THINGS HERE. AND I KNOW SOME OF THE THINGS I HEARD THE EVENING THAT I WAS THERE, IT COMPLETELY THREW OUT A LOT OF STUFF ON THESE 1 OR 2 ITEMS THAT WE DO HERE. AND I LOOKED AT THAT AND I WENT OH MY GOD, IF THEY APPROVE THIS, AND THEN THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORS COME IN THERE AND SAY I HAVE A REASON TO HAVE THIS. AND ONE OF THEM WAS ON A WATERFRONT PROPERTY ON A DEVELOPMENT THAT THERE WAS A NEIGHBOR ON THE OTHER SIDE, I MEAN NEIGHBORS ON THE OTHER SIDE. >> SOMEBODY'S GOT TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS WHETHER IT'S US OR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. I THINK THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I'M GOING TO SUPPORT THE STAFF ONLY BECAUSE I THINK I'M WILLING TO DO THIS ADDITIONAL WORK IF ASKED BY THE COMMISSIONERS. BUT I KNOW THEY TAKE VERY GOOD VERBATIM MINUTES. AND I HOPE THE COMMISSIONERS READ THEM AND ALL THE CONCERNS AND IN FACT I'VE GOT A FEELING THIS MIGHT FAIL ANYWAYS. SO I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE THE MOTION. >> DO WE HAVE A MOTION? >> I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM DOING THE WORK. MY RUB IS I'VE GOT A FOOT IN EACH BUCKET. AND IF I TAKE A POSITION BASED ON THE POLICY AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, IT'S AWFUL HARD FOR ME, WHY DIDN'T THE WOMAN FUZZY ISSUE COME UP AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING? WHY COULDN'T IT HAVE WORKED AT THAT LEVEL INSTEAD OF HAVING A WHOLE SEPARATE PROCESS? AND THE WORK DOESN'T BOTHER ME. THIS IS MY ONE CHANCE TO AT LEAST DRESS UP AND COME OUT. IT'S NOT MUCH, BUT. >> ARE WE READY FOR A MOTION? ANYBODY READY TO MAKE A MOTION? >> IF NOBODY WILL, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION AND REPORT. >> WE HAVE A MOTION FROM RALPH. IS THERE A SECOND? >> I'LL SECOND. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSON? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, WHY DON'T WE RAISE HANDS? THOSE IN FAVOR RAISE HANDS. SO WE'VE GOT THREE. AND THOSE OPPOSED? THREE. SO IT FAILS. WE DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS. >> REALLY A NO RECOMMENDATION. >> YES, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. THERE ARE NO PRESENTATIONS ON [Old Business/New Business] THE AGENDA. WELL ACTUALLY, UNDER OLD [1.  Zoning Code Timeline Update (D. Selig)] BUSINESS/NEW BUSINESS, WE WERE TO HAVE A ZONING CODE TIMELINE UPDATE BY MS. SELIG. BETH, YOU'RE GOING TO DO THAT? OKAY. >> SO THIS IS A TENTATIVE TIMELINE THAT WE'RE PRESENTING TO YOU TONIGHT. JULY 31ST WAS THE END OF THE WGI CONTRACT, THEY'RE THE CONSULTANT THAT ASSISTED US WITH THE REWRITE OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. AND SO THEY'VE GIVEN US THEIR FINAL DRAFT AND IT IS NOW IN OUR COURT. SO SEPTEMBER 5TH WHICH IS WHERE WE ARE NOW, WE'RE GIVING YOU THIS TIMELINE UPDATE. WE WILL GIVE YOU THE SAME UPDATE NEXT WEEK FOR THE BOARD. THE 29TH, WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF THINGS WORKING HERE. WE HAVE THE EVALUATION AND APPRAISAL REPORT LETTER THAT IS REQUIRED TO BE DONE EVERY SEVEN YEARS. THAT IS REQUIRED TO BE MAILED TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC -- IT SAYS DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE, I THOUGHT IT WAS DEO, ANYWAY TO THE STATE. AND WE WILL BE DOING THAT BEFORE OCTOBER 1. SO OUR DEADLINE THERE IS SEPTEMBER 29TH. REGARDING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, PLANNING STAFF BEGAN IN SEPTEMBER WITH THE IN DEPTH REVIEW OF THE DRAFT THAT WGI HAS GIVEN TO US. IT'S 406 PAGES. IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME TO REVIEW IT WORD BY WORD. THEY'VE DONE A GREAT JOB OF REORGANIZING IT AND PUTTING TOPICS TOGETHER AND GIVING US GRAPHICS THAT ARE VERY HELPFUL. BUT NOW WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CONTENT THAT WE NEED TO KEEP IN THE CODE IS STILL IN THE CODE AND MAKE SURE THAT THE CHANGES THAT STAKEHOLDERS AND THE COMMUNITY THAT ARE INTERESTED, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IS ALL IN THERE. [00:50:01] SO WE WILL BE REVIEWING THAT SEPTEMBER THROUGH MARCH 2024. AND AGAIN THESE ARE ROUGH DATES. THEN SPRING/SUMMER OF 2024. WE WILL BRING THIS TO YOU, WHEN WE HAVE FINALIZED OUR DRAFT, WE WILL BRING IT TO YOU FOR YOUR REVIEW OF ALL OF THESE CODE CHANGES. THEN THE NEXT STEP IS SUMMER/FALL 2024 PLANNING STAFF WILL BE LOOKING AT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. MANY OF THE POLICIES THAT ARE IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE ARE ALSO IN OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. AND SO IF WE MAKE ANY CHANGES IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT FIRST THEY'RE CHANGED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. SO WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH AND EVALUATE THAT AND FIGURE OUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. SO SUMMER/FALL 2024, WE WOULD BE TRANSMITTING ANY AMENDMENTS THAT WE FEEL NEED TO BE CHANGED BASED ON THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGE. THOSE WOULD BE GOING TO THE STATE. WE ALSO HAVE SOME OTHER POLICIES THAT HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED IN OUR COMP PLAN POLICIES PRESENTED BY CC WAVE BASED ON SOME RECENT STAT SHEET CHANGES, WE HAVE SOME OTHER WORK WE NEED TO DO THERE. THOSE WOULD BE INCLUDED AT THAT TIME. THAT BRINGS US TO FALL/WINTER 2024. ARE LEGAL REVIEW OF THE ZONING CHANGE, AND AGAIN 406 PAGES RIGHT NOW, THAT'S GOING TO TAKE OUR LEGAL STAFF SUBSTANTIAL TIME TO GO THROUGH THAT. THAT PUTS US TO WINTER 2024. AT THAT POINT, WE WOULD HAVE TRANSMITTED AND RECEIVED BACK THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CHANGES. WE WOULD ADOPT THOSE, AND THEN THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE ADOPTING THE FINAL ZONING CODE CHANGES. SO THAT'S KIND OF A LONG-WINDED VERSION OF ALL OF THE STEPS. THERE'S A LOT OF STEPS AND A LOT OF REVIEW. BUT WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT WE'LL HAVE A GOOD PRODUCT AT THE END. >> QUESTIONS? >> YES. >> CAN YOU GO BACK A SLIDE? THE YEAR LETTER, DOES THAT REPLACE THE ACTUAL YEAR PROCESS WE'VE GONE THROUGH IN PAST YEARS. IS THIS SUBSTITUTING FOR THAT? >> THIS IS LETTING THE STATE KNOW WHAT LEVEL OF REVIEW WE'RE GOING TO DO AND I DON'T BELIEVE WE'RE PLANNING TO DO A FULL REVIEW. >> BECAUSE WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE ZONING CODE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH THAT WHOLE REVIEW WE'VE DONE IN PAST YEARS? >> NOT THE FULL DEPTH THAT WE'VE DONE BEFORE, NO. >> QUESTION. WHEN YOU GIVE THAT TO US FOR REVIEW, ARE WE GOING TO HAVE A PERIOD OF TIME TO KIND OF REVIEW THAT OR ARE YOU GOING TO GIVE IT TO US ON A THURSDAY OR FRIDAY AND EXPECT US -- THAT'S WHAT I MEAN. I MEAN ARE WE GOING TO GET A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME TO DO THAT? >> THAT IS OUR INTENT, YES. WE CANNOT EXPECT YOU TO REVIEW THIS QUICKLY. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. CARSON? I GUESS THAT CONCLUDES OUR AGENDA EXCEPT FOR THE LAST PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. I'M SORRY. >> I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A PRESENTATION AT THE NEXT MEETING OR AT SOME UPCOMING MEETING, THE SOONER THE BETTER. I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN GET THAT ON THE AGENDA OR IF YOU WANT ME TO JUST GO UNDER NEW BUSINESS. IT WOULD BE SEVERAL PHOTOGRAPHS AND A DESCRIPTION OF THE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S HAPPENING ALONG COUNTY ROAD 218 AND SOME OF MY CONCERNS ABOUT IT. I FIGURED THIS IS A GOOD PLACE TO PRESENT IT AND IT CAN GO FORWARD FROM THERE. SO I DON'T KNOW WHATEVER MECHANISM WE NEED TO DO THAT. >> IS THAT SOMETHING -- >> 15 MINUTES PROBABLY MAX. >> MS. GRAHAM, IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN JUST AGREE TO? >> YOU CAN PUT IT ON -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL BE A VOTE. >> NO, NO, NO. SIMPLY A PRESENTATION. >> INFORMATION. >> INFORMATION. AND IT SEEMS APPROPRIATE TO TIE INTO THE REVIEW AND EDITING OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS. >> ARE THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION OKAY WITH THAT? >> IN FACT IF THERE'S SOMETHING IN THERE THAT WE THINK IS A PROBLEM, WE CAN ASK STAFF TO LOOK INTO IT. >> RIGHT, THAT'S KIND OF THE INTENT. >> WE DON'T KNOW UNTIL WE SEE IT. >> THANK YOU, BILL. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER NEW BUSINESS/OLD BUSINESS? WE ARE IN ADJOURNMENT AND OUR NEXT MEETING IS TUESDAY, OCTOBER 3R * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.