Apr 04, 2023 Planning Commission

[Call to Order]

[1.  Approval of Minutes]

[1.  Affordable Housing in Clay County]

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! IN SAINT JOHN'S COUNTY I AM

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ST. JOHN'S COUNTY IS GETTING OVERGROWN WITH INVESTORS WITH NOILY STREUBGS -- NO RESTRICTIONS.

THEY ARE BUILDING STARTER LOTS IN LOWER INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS AND BUILDING BRAND-NEW HOMES BECAUSE THEY CAN PARK CHEAP MONEY AND THEY ARENT ARING THE -- THEY ARE RENTING THE HOMES FOR $2400 A MONTH. THEY DON'T CARE IF THREE FAMILIES MOVE IN. THEY JUST WANT THEIR 2400 BUCKS.

I THINK LATER THEY WILL DUMP IT AND THEN WE WILL HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE REAL ESTATE VALUE. RIGHT NOW EVERYTHING WE BUY IS BASED ON THE APPRAISAL THAT THE LOT NEXT DOOR, A RENTAL INVESTOR BOUGHT IT AND HE IS SELLING IT AND RENTING IT FOR $2400 A MONTH. NOW THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY IS BASED ON A RENTAL ASSESSMENT. NO LONGER DOES IT MATTER WHAT YOU ARE BUILDING. THE SQUARE FOOT PRICE IT DOESN'T MATTER. THE APPRAISAL SAYS IT DOES, BUT THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE SALES PRICE AND THEY SAY IF SOMEONE CAN GET $2400 FOR THIS, THE VALUE IS $380,000.

NO IT'S NOT. IT IS A 1200 -- IT IS A LITTLE HOUSE IN WEST AUGUSTINE. IF SOMEBODY TURNS IT INTO AN AIRBNB, THAT'S REALLY HARD FOR BUILDERS.

THE BUILDING COMMUNITY IS ONE THAT I AM ALWAYS FASCINATED WITH. I CANNOT GET A DOCTOR OR ATTORNEY TO TELL ME WHAT THEIR PROFIT OR OVERHEAD IS.

EVERY BUILDER IS ASKED AT COUNTY COMMISSION MEETINGS AND SAYING, WELL, WHAT'S YOUR PROFIT AND OVERHEAD ON YOUR DEVELOPMENT.

YOU SIT AND YOU LOOK AT IT. I HAD ONE OF OUR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WHO JUST PASSED AWAY AND HE HE SAID I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY CAN'T WORK THE 5% OVERHEAD.

A LOT OF IT IS YOU BUY A PIECE OF PROPERTY AND NO ONE MOVES IN FOR THREE YEARS. YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE ROADS, WATER AND SEWER AND AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU ARE TRYING TO SELL IT. THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS THAT IT REALLY TAKES A PARTNERSHIP.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

YOU CAN HAVE BUILDERS AND DEVELOPERS OBVIOUSLY AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE LENDERS. AT ANY POINT IN TIME WHEN SOMEONE WANTS TO SIT BACK AND THEY SAY WE WILL LEAVE IT TO THE BUILDERS TO DO IT, THEY CAN'T DO IT ON THEIR OWN.

THE CHART I PUT TOGETHER, IT IS IMPORTANT.

WHEN A BUILDER SAYS I'M GOING TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING, 9 TIMES OUT OF 10 WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE FAMILIES THAT EARN BETWEEN 80% AND 120% OF THE AREA'S MEDIAN INCOME.

SIMPLY BECAUSE THAT'S A PRICE POINT.

THERE IS ENOUGH HOUSEHOLD INCOME THERE FOR THEM TO WORK WITH, ESPECIALLY WITH THE INTEREST RATES NOW AT 6 OR 7%.

WHEN YOU SAY AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND YOU DON'T CLARIFY WHO IT'S FOR, WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD A HOUSE FOR A TEACHER MARRIED TO A POLICE OFFICER WHO IS ABLE TO BUY IT.

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DEVELOPERS COME AND SAY WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS NEEDED AND THIS IS WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.

YOU HAVE TO SIT THERE AND SAY WHAT DO WE GET OUT OF IT AND IS THERE A GUARANTEE? THE WORKFORCE HOUSING OVER LAY IN SAINT JOHNS COUNTY, IT TOOK YEARS TO PUT THAT TOGETHER.

THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS THAT THEY GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF ZONING CONCESSIONS, DENSITY BONUSES AND ALL SORT OF THING IN ONE LUMP SUM. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPEND $80,000 WORTH OF ENGINEERS AND PLANNERS GOING BACK AND FORTH TO THE COMMISSION FOUR DIFFERENT TIMES TO GET APPROVAL.

HE SAID I CAN GET ALL OF THIS AT ONE TIME.

THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT WAS THAT 40% OF THE HOMES WOULD BE SOLD FOR $215,000. THAT ORIGINALLY STARTED IN 2020.

THE FIRST BUILDER THAT STEPPED UP TO DO IT WAS DR HORTON.

THEY SAID WE CAN'T DO IT FOR 220.

WE NEED TO DO IT FOR 440. HE EVENTUALLY SAID YOU CAN SEE THE COST OF TWO BY FOUR MATERIALS GOING UP.

AND NOW THE BUILDERS ARE SAYING WE REALLY NEED TO GO TO 260.

AND WE NEED TO GO TO 20% OF THE UNITS INSTEAD OF 40.

I DON'T CARE WHAT THE HOUSE COSTS.

I JUST CARE ABOUT THE MONTHLY PAYMENT.

IT IS THE INTEREST RATE AND THE MONTHLY PAYMENT.

TO GIVE SOMEBODY WHO ALREADY HAS A DEVELOPMENT APPROVED WHERE THEY AGREED TO DO 40% OF THE UNITS AND NOW THEY ONLY HAVE TO DO 20, THAT MEANS THEY GOT ANOTHER 20 OR 30 LOTS THAT ARE MUCH MORE VALUABLE THAN WHAT THEY STARTED.

THERE IS A CASH VALUE TO THAT AND I TRY AND ARGUE THAT WITH OUR PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT STAFF.

THEY GO, YOU DON'T REALLY TALK ABOUT MONEY.

THEY SAY YOU TALK ABOUT IT EVERY DAY WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE LOT WIDTH AND THE MEDIAN IN THE ROAD, THE NUMBER OF SIGNS YOU HAVE TO HAVE FOR A DEVELOPMENT. YOU CAN'T DO AFFORDABLE HOUSING IF YOU EXPECT THE BUILDER TO PAY FOR THE ROADS, WATER, SEWER AND NOT PASS IT ON. THE END USER IS WHO PAYS FOR ALL OF THAT. Y'ALL HAVE A GREAT EXAMPLE HERE.

IS IT EAGLE HARBOR? EAGLE HARBOR.

I REMEMBER JOHN TELLING ME WHEN THEY PUT THAT DEVELOPMENT TGETHER HE SAID WE ARE GOING TO HAVE AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPONENT AND WE ARE PUTTING IT OUTSIDE THE CDD DISTRICT.

ONE OF THE BIG CHALLENGES IS YOU HAVE IT IN THE CDD AND NOW YOU HAVE $2400 A YEAR AND IT MAY GO UP AND THERE MAY BE A SPECIAL ASSESS MEANT. IF YOU HAVE YOUR HOUSEHOLD FUNDS IN THERE, AND THEY ARE NOT POOR. THEY ARE NOT BROKE.

THEY JUST HAVE TO MANAGE THEIR MONEY.

HE WAS SMART ENOUGH TO SAY PUT IT ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE CDD DISTRICT SO THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE IMPACTED BY WHEN THE FEES HAVE TO GO UP. THAT WAS A MATH PROBLEM THE DEVELOPER LOOKED AT THAT SAID WE CAN DO THAT.

THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO STRUCTURE WITH SOMEONE. YOU HAVE TO SAY, WELL, WHO IS THIS GONNA BENEFIT? THE SECOND PAGE LISTS THE OCCUPATIONS IN CLAY COUNTY AND THEIR CURRENT WAGES.

I TRY TO HIGHLIGHT THAT AND HERE IS HOW MUCH THOSE OCCUPATIONS NEED TO PAY IN ORDER TO FIND A TWO-BEDROOM APARTMENT TO RENT AT FAIR MARKET VALUE. WHEN THEY SAY FAIR MARKET, THEY ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A PROPERTY THAT MIGHT BE SUBSIDIZED.

THAT'S WHERE BEST CORE AND SOME OF THE GROUPS DO.

THE TAX CREDIT PROGRAMS ARE AMAZING BECAUSE THEY WRITE THE INTEREST RATE DOWN AND THEY BRING IN TAX INDICATORS.

MAYBE YOU AGREE YOU WILL OWN AND MANAGE THAT PROPERTY FOR 30, 40, 50 YEARS. THE MATH WORKS TO WHERE THEY RENT FOR LESS THAN WHAT YOU WOULD NORMALLY SEE OUT IN THE OPEN MARKET. AND THEY AGREE TO RENT TO PEOPLE SOME OF THEM ARE AT 60% OF THE AREA'S MEDIAN INCOME AND SOME AT 80 AND MORE ARE AT THE 80 TO 120.

IT IS A BIG MATH PROBLEM THEY HAVE ON MULTIPLE SPREADSHEETS THAT ADDS IT ALTOGETHER AND IT WORKS OUT IN LARGE PART BECAUSE YOU LOWER THE INTEREST RATE. INTEREST RATES MAKE THE WORLD GO ROUND. IF I HAD 1% MONEY WE CAN BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING ALL DAY LONG. I DON'T CARE WHAT THE COST OF THE HOUSE IS. WE ARE BUILDING A $260,000 HOUSE RIGHT NOW. IF I DON'T GO TO THE USDA PROGRAM WHICH IS 100% FINANCING AT 4.5 INTEREST, THE AVERAGE MONTHLY PAYMENT IS $1800. IF I CAN GET THEM TO USDA AND

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THE DIFFERENCE IS THE INTEREST RATE AND THE FINANCING PROGRAMS OUT THERE. SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE SORT OF THINGS AND WHEN THE BUILDER SAYS I'M GONNA DO THIS, I THINK IT'S WITHIN YOUR RIGHT TO SAY WHO ARE YOU AIMING THIS FOR? I DON'T THINK YOU'RE AIMING IT FOR THE HOSPITALITY WORKERS.

WE NEED IT FOR OUR COPS. WE NEED IT FOR OUR FIRST RESPONDERS. WE ARE NOT BUILDING ENOUGH HOUSING TO STABILIZE THEM. THAT'S OKAY.

IF THE BUILDERS WOULD SIT THERE AND SAY THE BEST I CAN DO IS HIT THIS 80 TO 120 RANGE, THEN IT COMES BACK TO THE ONLY WAY WE GET TO THE REST OF THESE FOLKS IN TERMS OF STABILIZED THEM, AND YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THE OCUPATIONS ON THAT SECOND PAGE, THE ONLY WAY WE GET THERE IS BY HAVING A PARTNERSHIP.

THE BANKS NEED TO STEP UP AND GIVE US A LOWER INTEREST RATE.

THE USDA IS 4.5% AND IT IS 33 TO 38 YEARS.

THAT WORKS ALL DAY LONG. IT IS SECURE AND IT IS NOT AN ADJUSTABLE OR ANYTHING ELSE. YOU HAVE TO SIT AND LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE THINGS. ST. JOHNS COUNTY IS GETTING READY TO RAISE IMPACT FEES AGAIN.

IMPACT FEES ARE THE USER FEES THAT THEY ARE COLLECTING FOR GOVERNMENT. WE ARE COLLECTING I THINK $7.5 MILLION A MONTH IN IMPACT FEES IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE ALL THAT MONEY -- IT IS IN A BANK ACCOUNT THERE IS INTEREST BEING EARNED ON T BUT EVERY DEVELOPMENT THAT COMES IN THE COUNTY SAYS WE WANT YOU, THE DEVELOPER TO PUT TOGETHER A CDD OR PUT TOGETHER A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT OR AN HOA AND YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ROADS.

THAT MEANS YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT MUCH IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND IT IS EVEN HARDER TO DO AN AFFORDABLE RENTAL PROPERTY IF YOU HAVE TO CARRY THOSE COSTS.

THE HOUSING PARTNERSHIP LEARNS BY TAKING ON THINGS WE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE. I KPWRE TO BUILD A SIX-UNIT -- I AGREE TO BUILD A SIX-UNIT APARTMENT BUILDING.

ONE FOR VETERANS AT THE RISK OF BEING HOMELES.

IT IS $815,000. THE COUNTY COMES TO ME AND SAYS, WELL, WHY CAN'T YOU RENT THESE FOR $500 A MONTH BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THESE VETS NEED. I SAID I'M GOING TO THE BANK AND IT STARTED AT 3.5% EUPBLT. -- INTEREST.

RIGHT NOW IT IS 6.5% AND IT CHANGES EVERY THREE TO FIVE YEARS. I DON'T GET A 30-YEAR TERM.

WHY DON'T YOU GET A 30-YEAR TERM? BANKS DON'T GIVE UH 30-YEAR TERM ON COMMERCIAL LOANS.

IF YOU RANT -- IF YOU WANT RENT AT $500 A MONTH I NEED $450,000 TO WRITE DOWN THE DEBT SERVICE, AND NOW IT IS AFFORD ONLY OR FIND SOMEBODY WHO WILL GIVE ME 1% MONEY AND IT WILL BE AFFORDABLE AND I CAN RENT IT AT $500 A MONTH.

IT'S THE SAME BUILDING. IT ISY THE SAME COST TO CONSTRUCT. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS IF IF I GO TO THE BANK AND I SAY I WILL RENT THIS FOR $600 A MONTH, THE BANK SAYS WE WILL ONLY GIVE YOU THIS MUCH MONEY.

I WILL RENT IT FOR $H00 A MONTH -- $1200 A MONTH.

OH WE CAN GIVE YOU MORE. IT IS THAT MATH PROBLEM.

THE BANK LOOKS AT IT AND SAYS HOW MUCH MONEY ARE YOU BRINGING IN THAT YOU CAN PAY YOUR DEBT SERVICE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THESE THINGS WHETHER IT IS HOME OWNERSHIP OREN TALL IT MAKES A WORLD OF -- O*EP OR -- OWNERSHIP OREN TALL. YOU CAN SAY I WILL RENT THESE FOR $1500 A MONTH. THAT'S AFFORDABLE FOR SOME FOLKS, BUT IT IS NOT AFFORDABLE FOR OTHERS.

AND WE NEED ALL OF IT. WE NEED HOUSING AND SHELTER FOR THOSE AT-RISK OF BEING HOMELESS. WE NEED HOUSING FOR FOLKS THAT ARE RETIRED AND LIVING ON LESS THAN $1200 A MONTH.

THERE ARE ALL LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR SOMEONE TO DO IT. WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS I WANT TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING YOU HAVE EVERY ABILITY TO SAY IT IS A SIMPLE MATH PROBLEM. WHAT PART OF OUR WORKFORCE ARE YOU TRYING TO ADDRESS? THERESA MANAGES THE SHIP PROGRAM. THE SENATE BILL 102 I THINK IT IS CALLED, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 32 YEARS THE STATE HAS PUT MORE THAN JUST THE DOCK STAMP MONEY IN.

IT IS GOING FROM 500 MILLION TO I THINK 8$00 MILLION.

$800 MILLION. I THINK THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS TO DESCRIBE AFFORDABLE HOUSE -- HOUSING.

IF YOU SET ASIDE 10 OF YOUR UNITS WE WILL GIVE UH BREAK.

WE WILL ALLOW THE PROPERTY APPRAISER TO GIVE UH BREAK ON YOUR PROPERTY TAXES. IT IS BASED ON GIVE US SOMETHING AND TELL US YOU WILL DO IT FOR FIVE OR TEN YEARS AND YOU'LL GET A TAX BREAK. OR THERE MAY BE LOWER INTEREST LOANS. THERE IS A MULTITUDE OF THINGS IN THERE. A LOT OF IT WILL COME BACK TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING DEPARTMENT AND PLANNING STAFF.

WE HAVE THREE MONTHS BEFORE THIS MONEY ACTUALLY GETS SENT OUT.

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THE SINGLE BIGGEST THING THAT WOULD HELP IS BEING ABLE TO DO SMALL, DENSE -- IN-FIELD DENSITY.

CAN I TURN ONE LOT INTO TWO? OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT SAYS, WELL, YOU KNOW, IF WE LET YOU DO IT, EVERY OTHER DEVELOPER IN TOWN IS GONNA DO IT. WELL, JUST TIE IT TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING. IF YOU RENT TO SOMEONE UNDER 80% OF THE AMI AND IF YOU ARE GONNA DO THAT ON A LOT, WE AGREE IT IS DEED RESTRICTED FOR 30 YEARS. AND NOW NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO JUMP UP AND DO IT. WE WANT TO SEE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES YOU CAN -- ES SPECIAL -- ESPECIALLY IN ST. AUGUSTINE.

PEOPLE SAY I LIVED IN A GARAGE APARTMENT THE FIRST FIVE YEARS IN MY LIFE. WE DON'T DO THEM ANYMORE BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS AFRAID THEY WILL BE TURNED INTO AN AIRBNB.

THERE ARE WAYS AROUND SAYING IF WE ARE GONNA PERMIT THIS -- I HAVE KNOWN A NUMBER OF BUILDERS WHO SAID I BUILT MY FIRST HOSE AND IT WAS A DUPLEX. MY WIFE AND I LIVED IN ONE HALF AND RENTED OUT THE OTHER. THEN WE SOLD IT AND THEN MOVED TO THE NEXT ONE. THERE ARE LOTS OF OPPORTUNITIES TO RECREATE ZONING THAT WOULD CREATE A MARKET FOR SMALL BUILDERS. AND THOSE ARE THE FOLKS WHO GENERALLY PRODUCE OUR AFFORDABLE HOUSING WITHOUT A LOT OF GOVERNMENT RULES AND REGULATIONS IF THEY CAN GET IN AND DO IT, THEY WILL. THE SHIP PROGRAM DOES AN AMAZING JOB TRYING TO STABILIZE SOME OF THE EXISTING HOUSING, THE HOME REPAIRS. THE HOUSING PARTNERSHIP, WE SPEND ALMOST A MILLION A YEAR IN DOING HOME REPAIRS AND THE WEATHERIZATION AND THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND SHIP REHAB AND WHATEVER WE CAN DO. WE ARE JUST TRYING TO STABILIZE THE EXISTING HOMES THAT ARE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

SOONER OR LATER THE ELDERLY PERSON WILL PASS AND SOMEONE ELSE WILL MOVE INTO THE HOUSE. HOPEFULLY IT IS FAMILY.

MAYBE THEY SELL IT TO SOMEBODY WHERE IT IS THEIR NEXT OPPORTUNITY. WE START LOOKING AT THESE HOMES SAYING WE NEED TO PRE -- PREPARE THEM TO BE PART OF THE WORKFORCE I DON'T PUT SHINGLES ON A HOUSE ANYMORE.

EVERY HOME WE PUT METAL ON SIMPLY BECAUSE -- THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE WITH THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY, IT IS GOING TO BECOME HARDER AND HARDER TO GET INSURANCE FOR FOLKS.

HAVE I SENIORS TELLING ME THEY WILL CANCEL MY POLICY IF THEY DON'T GET A NEW ROOF. I CAN'T AFFORD THE INSURANCE INCREASE MORE OR LESS A NEW ROOF.

THEY HAVE NOWHERE ELSE TO GO. THE ROOF IS 11 YEARS OLD.

IT IS NOT LEAKING, BUT THEY ARE TOLD THEY HAVE TO REPLACE IT.

THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS FOR THE PROGRAMS TO COME OUT.

WHEN IT COMES TO WHERE YOU GUYS ARE, YOU REALLY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY WE WANT TO DO SOME INCENTIVES.

YOU REALLY HAVE TO ASK YOUR PLANNING STAFF TO COME UP WITH LOOKING AT CHANGES TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT INCENTIVIZES THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

I THINK THE EASIEST WAY TO DO IT IS TO USE THE INCOME GUIDELINES THAT SHIP PROGRAM AND FLORIDA HOUSING FINANCE PUTS OUT BECAUSE THEY ARE ADJUSTED EVERY YEAR. HERE IS WHAT RENT CAN BE IF YOU TRY TO DO IT FOR 60% OF THE AMI AND HERE IT IS FOR 80 OR 100.

IT CHANGES ALT BIT. IT CHANGES A LITTLE BIT.

WE WILL ALLOW A CERTAIN KIND OF PLANNING OR DENSITY BONUSES FOR THESE INCOME CATEGORIES, THEN YOU ARE NOT WORRIED ABOUT EVERYONE IN THE WORLD DOING IT. IF YOU DO SOMETHING FOR A PIECE OF PROPERTY, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SAYING WE CHANGED THIS PROPERTY SO IN PERSON FEW TEE -- IN PERPITUITY WE WANT IT TO REMAIN AN ASSET. WE DON'T CARE WHO BUYS IT, BUT WE WANT IT TO ■BEPARTOF THE%-ÚAT A STAKEHOLDER PRESENTED A GREAT

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I MYSELF HAVE LIVED IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA WHERE YOU DO HAVE TO RELY ON TRANSIT TO SOME DEGREE. IT IS POSSIBLE, BUT IT DEPENDS ON YOUR DENSITY DEVELOPMENT. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN FILL DEVELOPMENT VERSUS SPRAWL. THAT CIRCLES BACK TO THE BIG COMPLEX ISSUE OF ZONING AND WHAT KIND OF DEVELOPMENT YOU ARE DOING BECAUSE YOU HAVE INCLUSIONARY VERSUS EXCLUSIONARY. I MYSELF LIVE IN MANDARIN.

EVEN FOR MY OWN TOWN HALL AND FOR MY COMMUNITY AND COUNCILMAN BORAN PRESENTING THAT, PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING. ADMITTEDLY, I DON'T WANT THE COMPLEX NEXT TO MY HOUSE, FOR EXAMPLE.

GIVEN THE TRANSIT ISSUE, PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU WANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY SERVING YOU AT THE RESTAURANT, THEY HAVE TO LIVE SOMEWHERE. I'M JUST SAYING BECAUSE THE ARGUMENT IS THEY CAN LIVE WHERE THEY MAY AFFORD TO LIVE, BUT IT MAY BE THE NEXT COUNTY. THEN YOU GET TO TRANSPORTATION.

THAT AFFECTS THE TAXES YOU PAY. WE PAY FOR THIS ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. AND I AM SPEAKING TO THIS FROM UNDERSTANDING BOTH SIDES OF IT. HAVING BEEN A LANDLORD, BUT ALSO BEING A PLANNER. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

THE STRATEGIES, THE 25 ITEMS, THE IMPACT TO RESILIENCY AND TRANSIT AND THE RV PARKS I WILL COME BACK TO.

THE CRITICAL QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES REPORT AND NOTABLY IT HAD 10 AFFORDABLE HOUSING GOALS INCLUDING TPAOEUFPBD -- INCLUDING FINDING MORE FUNDING. NOT ALL OF THESE WILL BE DIRECTLY ADDRESSED. THESE ARE SIMPLY THE GOALS THAT CAME FROM THE REPORT. TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA IT WAS A FOUR-MONTH PROCESS, THREE WORKING GROUPS AND ONE BIGGER COMMITTEE. WE HAD A TOTAL OF FIVE MEETINGS PER WORKING GROUP. THERE WERE 15 MEETINGS BESIDES THE REPORT UP TO THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO DEVELOP A REPORT IN THE END FOR ALL THIS. ALL THIS WAS PUBLIC, OF COURSE.

IT IS BY WHICH WE GATHER THE INPUT TO PUT ALL OF THIS TOGETHER INTO ONE CONSOLIDATED ARGUMENT.

I HAVE A BLACK AND WHITE COPY AND IT IS EASY TO FIND ON THE INTERNET BY GOOGLING THE JACKSONVILLE QUALITY OF LIFE.

WHAT IS INTERESTING IS YOU GET TO A SECTION CALLED THE COMPLEX PROBLEM AND THAT HELPS WRAP ALL OF THIS INTO ONE NEAT BUNDLE TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND HOW IT IS DETERMINED.

THE OUT -- OUTLOOK AS WE KNOW IS CONVENIENT BANKS, BUT I WANT TO ADD COMMENT TO THIS AND THAT INCLUDES WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE REGION, RIGHT? THAT'S WHERE WE COME INTO PLAY.

AS I MENTIONED IT IS A NATIONAL ISSUE.

I AM INVOLVED WITH THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES.

MAYBE YOU HEARD THAT. THERE IS ALSO A TRANSPORTATION SIDE OF THIS. IT HAS GOTTEN TO BE SUCH A BIG ISSUE THAT THEY FUND DIFFERENT PROJECTS.

IN THIS CASE THEY HAVE THE TRANSIT COOPERATIVE RESEARCH PROGRAM. THEY ARE DOING THEIR OWN STUDY AND THEY WILL START ADDRESSING TRANSIT AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

WITHOUT A DOUBT THESE THINGS ARE TOGETHER AND TIED TIGHTLY TOGETHER. I MENTIONED THE HOPE GRANT.

RELATIVE TO ADU'S AND I MENTIONED LIVING UP IN NORTH DC FOR MANY YEARS, JACKSONVILLE AS MANY OF YOU KNOW FROM THEM PASSING ADU'S THEIR REQUIREMENT REQUIRE THE LANDOWNER TO LIVE ON THE PROPERTY. WHAT I'M GETTING AT WHEN I MENTIONED NORTHERN SRAE -- NORTHERN VIRGINIA IS I LIVED BACK THERE FOR YEARS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD RENT OUT PART OF THEIR HOUSE TO COVER THEIR MORTGAGE.

IT WASN'T AN ADU AS MUCH AS RENTING A ROOM OUT IN YOUR HOUSE OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT AND IT WORKS.

IT DEPENDS ON THE LANDLORD. IT IS NOT REGULATED.

IT IS ME SIMPLY RENTING OUT PART OF THE HOUSE TO SOMEBODY, BUT YOU HAD GOOD TRANSIT ISSUES AND IT ALLOWS THE PERSON TO IF THEY DO HAVE A CAR AND GIVEN YOU HAVE A BIG PAURBG -- A BIG PARKING PROBLEM BEING THE DC AREA AND IT ALLOWS THEM TO FIND A PLACE TO LIVE AND THEY MENTIONED TINY HOMES.

A LOT OF THE PEOPLE LOOKING FOR PLACES MAY JUST NEED A STARTER PLACE IN REFERENCE. ANOTHER THOUGHT, MY ORIGINAL HOME CITY WAS NEW ORLEANS. SOME MAY HAVE HEARD THE TERM SHOTGUN HOMES. IT IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE TERMS BECAUSE YOU CAN LINEUP THE DOORWAYS AND SHOOT A SHOTGUN.

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GOING BACK TO THE BIGGER PICTURE, WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERG ONE THING. SB102 AS MENTIONED WITH ZONING, I WAS TALKING -- I WAS TALKING TO MY REAL ESTATE AGENT AND WE ARE COMING AT IT FROM TWO PERSPECTIVES.

HER COMMENT WAS SHE DOESN'T SEE IT AS A REAL ESTATE AGENT BECAUSE SHE SAID WHO WILL WANT TO DEVELOP IN A COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL ZONE? THAT DEPENDS ON WHAT IS IN THAT ZONE ALREADY OR WHAT YOU ARE DEVELOPING NEXT TO.

IT IS A MATTER OF HOW IT IS THOUGHT OF AND WHAT CAN BE DONE.

I MENTIONED MANDARIN ZONING. THEY REFERENCED 20% AND THEY SETTLED ON 30%. JACKSONVILLE, I UNDERSTAND -- I UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE ARE FAMILIES LOOKING AT VRBO'S TO LIVE IN. PEOPLE ARE JUST TRYING TO FIND A PLACE TO LIVE AND SHELTER THEIR FAMILY.

TINY HOMES, I WILL JUMP TO THAT AND BAKER, WE WILL SEE WHAT COMES TO THE LAND USE. YOU GET INTO SETBACKS AND ARE YOU BUILDING OVER SOME KIND OF A DRAINAGE AND IT BECOMES A MATTER OF DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD? MY ANSWER IS WE ARE NOT THERE TO TELL THEM -- WE TELL THEM WHAT CAN BE DONE AND WE LOOK AT CODE FOR THEM.

SOME CITIES DON'T HAVE PLANNERS, LIKE MILWAUKEE FOR EXAMPLE.

THE FIRST THING I ASK IS WHAT DO YOU WANT FOR YOUR COMMUNITY? WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE LONG RUN? THAT BEING SAID -- JUMPING OVER TO RV PARKS AND GOING TO TINY HOMES, WHAT WE ARE SEEING AT THE MOMENT, I CALL IT THE CURRENT TREND THROUGHOUT THE SOUTHERN COUNTIES THERE ARE SEVERAL COUNTIES THAT THEY ARE GETTING -- BAKER HAD A REQUEST SAYING DEVELOPERS ARE SAYING I HAVE A GREAT IDEA FOR AN RV PARK. AND TO GET TO THE HIGH END VERSUS LUXURY. I AGREE WITH THE SOUND GYTE.

THE SOUND BYTE. DEVELOPERS IN A LOT OF CASES WANT NO LIMIT ON THE TIME OF STAY AT THE RV PARK WHICH WE KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. IT WILL BE ABUSED.

THE DEVELOPER WHO WANTS TO BUILD THE IN YOU PLACE ON THE RIVER, ON THE WATER IN POLACA IS ASKING FOR THE SAME THING.

THEY HAVE NO DEVELOPMENT EXPERIENCE AND HE HAS MADE MONEY ON THE FORMER INDUSTRY AND SEES THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY AND THIS HAS YET TO BE A FINAL APPLICATION AND THEY ARE TRYING TO DO THIS. YOU GET INTO LANDSCAPING AND IT BOILS DOWN TO RV PARKS. BAKERRED ONE -- BAKER HAD ONE AND THEY DENIED ONE ALSO. I MENTIONED A COUPLE OF THE OTHERS A SECOND AGO IN -- AND NASA -- I WILL END THIS ON ON THE FOLLOWING NOTE. NASA DOES NOT WANT RV PARKS.

THEY KIND OF SAID WE DON'T WANT THEM AT THIS POINT.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY HAVE A MOBILE HOME PARK WHICH INTER LOCK HAS A SIMILAR PROBLEM. WE HEARD ABOUT THE CRIME ISSUES AND DEVELOPERS COME TO THEM AND SIMPLY TALK ABOUT REPLACING EACA COMMENT, BUT THE DEVELOPERS BRA -- THE DEVELOPERS PROPOSE TAKING EACH PLAT FOR THE MOBILE HOME AND REPLACING IT WITH TWO TINY HOMES. YOU ASK ABOUT THE SIZE.

YOU HAVE ONE ADVANTAGE, YOU HAVE A FIXED STRUCTURE THAT IS CODE ENFORCED. WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT JWB IS TRYING TO DO IN JACKSONVILLE, NOT SAYING THAT'S THE SOLUTION, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE PARKING REQUIREMENTS AND YOU DON'T HAVE A DRIVEWAY. THEY CLAIM THEY CAN PUT IN GRANITE COUNTER TOPS IN A SMALL PLACE.

AS MUCH AS SAYING, THESE ARE SOME OF THE SOLUTIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO DO AT THIS POINT.

BUT AT THIS POINT I GUESS THE BIGGER POINT IS THAT -- THE BIGGER COMMENT IS THAT THIS HAS BECOME A NATIONAL ISSUE IN EVERY MAJOR CITY. A FINAL NOTE, I REMEMBER SEEING

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CIVIL SERVANTS COULD NOT LIVE IN THE CITY OF STPWRAPB PROPER BECAUSE -- SAN FRANCISCO PROPER BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T AFFORD TO LIVE THERE. I THINK IT HAS TRANSLATED TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. WE KNOW IT IS A LOW COST AREA OF LIVING COMPARED TO OTHER PLACES. NOW THAT WE HAD TELEWORK AND THE MAGIC OF TECHNOLOGY CATCH UP IT HAS BALANCED AROUND THE COUNTRY.

AND NOW PEOPLE WHO STAY IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA MOVE HERE AND BUILD A BIGGER HOUSE, OF COURSE, AND HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY TO REMOTE WORK EVERY DAY AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LETS YOU REMOTE WORK A LOT OF THOSE JOBS AND IT IS ALLOWING PEOPLE TO LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE WHICH IS AN ADVANTAGE TO THEM.

OBVIOUSLY FOR THOSE OF US LIVING HERE, IT IS A COST OF LIVING ISSUE. IT IS NOT JUST A SNOWBIRD ISSUE.

IT IS AN EVERBIRD ISSUE. THAT GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT WE ARE SEEING AROUND THE COUNTY. THE ONE I THINK THAT STANDS OUT IS THE RV PARK COMMUNITY. THEY ARE IN THAT PANIC WIDE-EYED STATE. IT IS HAVING A LOT OF GREAT IDEAS, BUT THEY ARE NOT SURE HOW TO ADDRESS THE STORM WATER ISSUES. WHAT DO THEY NEED TO DO? THEY CAN TALK TO THE PUBLIC WORKS, BUT THEY ARE WIDE-EYED AND IN A PANICKED STATE, BUT I ALWAYS TELL THEM IT GOES BACK TO NUMBER ONE, WHAT DO YOU WANT FOR YOUR COMMUNITY.

AND THEN IT GOES BACK TO, YOUR CODE ENFORCEMENT, BUT THEN WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO NEGOTIATE INTO THAT DEVELOPMENT FOR MAINTENANCE? YOU CAN BUILD THE RV PARK AND LANDSCAPE IT. THE QUESTION, IS IT HIGH END, IS IT LUXURY? , BUT GIVEN THAT PEOPLE BUY TOYS AND WE CAN SEE THE RV INDUSTRY IS GOING THROUGH THE ROOF AND THIS IS WHAT WE ARE LEFT WITH. WHAT YOU ARE MAKING THE DEVELOPER DO, HOW LONG CAN PEOPLE STAY AND HOW IS THAT ENFORCED. CAN THEY PULL OUT OF THE DRIVEWAY AND STAY GONE FOR AN HOUR AND CHECK IN AGAIN? THAT'S JUST ANOTHER MATTER. THIS IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN THE AREA. WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANY SPECIFIC LAND USING CHANGES PER AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

THIS IS NOT A SHORT-TERM ISSUE. WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THE LAW THAT WAS JUST PASSED WHETHER OR NOT WE WILL SEE THIS IN THE FUTURE, I WOULD NOT BET ON. IT IS GOING TO BE LONGER DOWN THE ROAD. I WELCOME ANY SUPPLEMENT FROM THE EXPERTS. ANY QUESTIONS?

>> I HAVE ONE. I WANTED TO -- YOU MENTIONED TWO THINGS. ONE, YOU ALMOST THOUGHT IT WAS A BAD IDEA BECAUSE WE DO HAVE ADU'S IN THE CODE IN THIS COUNTY. BUT WE REQUIRE THE OWNER TO LIVE

IN A PRIMARY HOME. >> WHICH IS WHAT JACKSONVILLE IS

DOING. >> IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU THOUGHT

THAT WAS A BAD IDEA. >> NO.

I AM NOT SURE WHERE THAT CAME OUT.

I APOLOGIZE IF IT DID. MY EXAMPLE GOING BACK TO NORTHERN VIRGINIA AND USING THAT AS AN EXAMPLE, IN MOST -- IN ALMOST ALL CASES I KNOW OF THERE , PEOPLE WHO DO WHAT I SUGGESTED THAT THEY -- MAYBE NOT SUGGEST IS THE RIGHT RECOMMENDATION, BUT YOU ARE REUPBT -- RENTING OUT ONE OF THE ROOMS IN THE PLACE AND THEY ARE USING THEIR BATHROOM AND THEY CALL IT KITCHEN PRIVILEGES WHICH IS A FUNNY TERM.

THE LANDLORD WAS STILL LIVING ON THE PROPERTY.

THE PERSON YOU ARE RENTING TO WAS NOT ONLY YOUR TENANT, BUT YOUR ROOMMATE. IT WORKED OUT WELL.

I HAVE SEEN PRESENTATIONS BY THE FHC, THE FLORIDA HOUSING COMMISSION. THEY ADDRESSED ADU'S AND THEY HAVE ADDRESSED IT EXACTLY THAT IN SOME CASES THERE ARE COMMUNITIES WITH AN ADU THAT IS PART OF THE HOUSE AND THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE HAS I DON'T WANT TO SAY WALLED OFF THAT SECTION OF THE HOUSE, BUT LOCKED THE DOOR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITE. >> YEAH.

>> AND I GREW UP WITH THE SAME CONCEPT.

I THINK WE HAVE TRANSITIONED INTO, AS MENTIONED EARLIER, WE

[01:45:03]

DUVALL IS 90% SINGLE-FAMILY. IT IS A VERY CAR-CENTRIC

SOCIETY. >> I THINK WHEN WE DID THE ADU'S WAY BACK, I DON'T REMEMBER IF YOU WERE INVOLVED WITH THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMMITTEE THAT WE BROUGHT UP YEARS AGO.

WE FELT LIKE PUTTING THE PRIMAR- THE OWNER ON THE PRIMARY RESIDENCE PREVENTS A LOT OF PROBLEMS YOU RUN INTO IF YOU HAVE A RENTAL ADU ON THE SAME PROPERTY.

NOBODY IS WATCHING WHAT IS GOING ON.

>> I PERSONALLY THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA.

>> THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO ASK YOU, WHICH YOU MENTIONED ABOUT SHIPPING CONTAINER HOMES. DID YOU SAY THEY DID SOME IN

JACKSONVILLE? >> I FORGET THE EXACT CORNER, BUT THERE IS A CORNER WITH SHIPPING CONTAINER HOMES.

>> DOWNTOWN? >> DOWNTOWN AND IT WAS DONE BY

JWB, THE DEVELOPER. >> WELL, PARKING IS SOMETHING I WANTED TO MENTION TO. SOMETHING I WANTED TO MENTION TOO. THE ADVANTAGE OF THEM IS ESSENTIALLY THEY CAN BE FACTORY BUILT AND DROPPED IN PLACE WITH ON SITE INSTRUCTION AND THAT HELPS KEEP THE COSTS DOWN.

I THINK THE ISSUE IS IF YOU DON'T ADDRESS THAT IN THE CODE, WHAT DO WE CALL THOSE? ARE THEY MANUFACTURED HOMES? ARE THEY PRE-FABED HOMES? I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WHOLE THING IS WE GET THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW WE ADDRESS THOSE THINGS.

I FOR ONE HAVE SEEN SOME THAT I THOUGHT WERE PRETTY NEAT.

>> SO HERE IS THE TWIST AND THE SUBSEQUENT ANSWER, BUT ONE OF MY FORMER LIVES, I HAVE BEEN MOSTLY IN TRANSPORTATION.

I HAVE BEEN PORT PLANNING FOR A LOT OF PORTS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

WHEN WE USED TO SEE THIS 20 YEARS AGO WE CHUCK -- CHUCKLED FROM THAT ANGLE. WE DID SOME ECONOMIC IMPACT ANALYSIS FOR A SMALL COMMUNITY IN WEST VIRGINIA AND TALKED TO A PRE-FAB MAKER THAT WAS LOCATED THERE FOR A REASON AND THE RAIL CONNECTIONS, THEY SAID THEY HAD A SALE GOING ON FOR THE NORTHEAST -- EXCUSE ME, THE NORTHWEST UNITED STATES, AND THEY ARE WORKING ON NEGOTIATIONS FOR AN OVER SEAS NEGOTIATION.

THEY WERE SHIPPING ON THE WEST COAST.

IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS PRE-FABED.

SHIPPING CONTAINERS ARE NOT INSULATED.

YOU HAVE TO RETROFIT THEM. IT BOILS DOWN TO ARE YOU PROVIDING GOOD HOUSING FOR SOMEBODY.

AS LONG AS IT IS FIXED IT HELPS TO MAKE IT -- WHETHER OR NOT THE LAND USE REGULATIONS ALLOW FOR IT, BUT ARE YOU PROVIDING THE RIGHT THING? IF IT IS PRE-FABED, YOU CAN SPELL THAT OUT. IT STILL MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS BUT EVERYTHING IS SHIP THREAD AND MADE SOMEWHERE ELSE AND THEN PUT TOGETHER. OBVIOUSLY THEN THERE IS ANOTHER FACTOR AS WE SAW FROM HOMESTEAD BACK IN -- GET MY YEAR RIGHT, 92 FOR AN -- ANDREW, BUT YOU HAVE TO BUILD IT FOR HURRICANE-FORCE WINDS OBVIOUSLY. > YOU MENTIONED PARKING.

AND I WAS ACTUALLY READING THE ARTICLE AND IT WAS MAYBE FROM THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" AND IT WAS TALKING ABOUT THE GLUT OF PARKING SPACES THAT WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT IN SOME AREAS, THEY WERE ALLOWING THEM TO GO IN WITH NO PARKING REQUIREMENT AND A LOT OF THEM ARE LOOKING AT REDUCING THEIR PARKING REQUIREMENTS THERE BY CREATING AVAILABLE IN FILL LAND.

THEY HAVE A BUILDING ON PART OF THE LAND.

THE POINT IS WHEN I FIRST MOVED IT AND THE TOWNHOUSE THAT WAS MENTIONED, IT IS A BETTER SOLUTION BECAUSE THEY ARE SMALLER UNITS. MY WIFE AND I BOUGHT A BIG HOME

[01:50:09]

AND WE WILL HAVE A GATE AND CAR SIZE.

WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS DO I LIKE MY TWO-CAR GARAGE HERE AND MY SEPARATE TWO CARS AND THERE ARE SOLUTIONS FOR PEOPLE WHO CANNOT AFFORD THAT AND MAYBE IT IS NOT AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

IT IS AFFORDABLE TO YOUR INCOME LEVEL OR SOMEBODY'S RESPECTED INCOME LEVEL. WE ARE A CAR-CENTRIC SOCIETY.

EUROPE WAS DEVELOPED DIFFERENTLY.

IT IS MORE RAIL AND TRANSIT BASED.

I COULD BIKE AND RAIL AT 17 YEARS OLD.

WE ARE CAR-CENTRIC BECAUSE WE LOVE OUR AUTOMOBILES.

I AM NOT GOING TO SAY WE ARE GOING TO HIGH SPEED RAIL BECAUSE THAT IS COST PROHIBITIVE, BUT MERELY WE HAVE TO SLIGHTLY THINK A ITTLE DIFFERENTLY. THE PROBLEM WE ARE SEEING IS NORTHEAST FLORIDA IS RICH IN LAND.

WE DO HAVE PRESERVES. WE HAVE OTHER FACTORS AND THEY JUST APPROVED -- THEY DID A LAND USE ZONING CHANGE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT UP THERE AND THAT IS VERY CONTROVERSIAL.

IT IS INTERESTING TO WATCH ALL OF THIS AND SEE IT APPROVED.

SO IT IS INTERESTING THAT -- GOING BACK TO THE BIGGER PICTURE AT NORTHEAST FLORIDA, IT IS A VERY LAND-RICH AREA AND INVESTORS HAVE SEEN THAT. PEOPLE WHO LIVE UP IN THE NORTHEAST WHO HAVE MADE -- AS WE READ ABOUT, PEOPLE HAVE THE MONEY AND THEY HAVE MADE THEIR MONEY.

YOU HAVE BETTER SALARIES UP THERE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN IT IS NECESSARILY MORE EXPENSIVE.

MY INSURANCE UP THERE IS MUCH CHEAPER.

I DON'T THINK IT IS COST PROHIBITIVE, BUT PEOPLE ARE MAKING MONEY AND THEN GOING, I CAN GO AND BUY LAND IN NORTHEAST FLORIDA. I CAN BUY A LOT MORE.

OR THEY ARE HOLDING ON TO IT. THAT BEING SAID I HEARD RECENTLY THAT PEOPLE ARE NOW -- WITH SOME OF THEIR RV'S AND MAYBE THEY SOLD THEIR HOME AND BOUGHT THE RV, BUT THEY ARE SQUATTING ON LAND IN SOME CASES. THERE IS A PIECE OF LAND, A PARCEL THAT IS VEGETATIVE AND UNDEVELOPED.

THEY WILL PARK BEHIND THE TREES AND LIVE THERE FOR AWHILE.

THE LANDOWNER LIVES IN THE NORTHEAST UNITED STATES OR SOMEWHERE ELSE. THIS HAS BEEN THE LATEST PROBLEM FOR SQUATTING WHICH IS KIND OF UNBELIEVABLE, WE THINK, IN MODERN TIMES. ABOUT OF I FORGET, THE OTHER NOTATION IS WE HAD CHRIS WALKER COME SPEAK TO THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMMITTEE AND I THOUGHT OF THIS EARLIER.

ONE OF THE DEVELOPMENTS THEY ARE GOING TO BE WORKING ON, THEY INTEND TO PUT IT INTO THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING CATEGORY.

WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS NOT ONLY THAT FACTOR, BUT WHAT HAS BEEN COMMENTED IS DOES THAT MEAN PEOPLE ARE PAYING A REALISTIC RATE SUCH THAT THEY WILL TAKE CARE OF THE HOME THEY ARE BUYING? THESE ARE SMALLER TOWNHOMES.

MY FIRST TOWNHOME WAS THREE STORIES, BUT VERY SMALL BY TODAY'S STANDARDS. AS CHRIS PUT IT HIMSELF, THEY ARE AWARE PEOPLE DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY ARE GETTING A VALUE OR THEY MIGHT ABUSE THE SITUATION. AS HE PUT IT, THERE WILL BE RULES IN THE HOA THAT IF YOU VIOLATE PARKING THREE TIMES OR YOU HAVE A CIVIL DIS-- DISTURBANCE, THEY WILL HAVE RULES THAT THEY CAN SAY CONCEIVABLY SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, THAT MEANS UP TO THAT POINT YOU'RE OUT IF YOU ARE LIVING IN ONE OF THOSE UNITS. THEY ARE NOT JUST CREATING A DEVELOPMENT THAT LEADS TO OTHER ISSUES.

IT IS INTERESTING TO HEAR THIS BECAUSE YOU HAVE A HEALTH-RELATED ISSUE AND A CRIME-RELATED ISSUE AND WE ALL KNOW ABOUT HOMELESSNESS. BUT IT ALL KIND OF WRAPS UP INTO US. IT IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE TO AFFORD TO LIVE SOMEWHERE.

[01:55:05]

>> ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? I'M SORRY. ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR

QUESTIONS FOR MR. COMO. >> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE TO EDUCATE US ON THE IMPORTANT TOPIC. AT THIS TIME WE ARE DOWN TO ONE LAST SUBSTANTIVE ISSUE BUT I WILL

[2.  Development Plan Review - Standard Operating Procedure]

CARSON WILL HAVE THAT. >> WE BROUGHT TO YOU CHANGES TO ARTICLE 2 WHICH IS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT DEALS WITH DEVELOPMENT REVIEW. I MAY HAVE A FROG SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS HERE. AT THAT TIME YOU HAD ASKED US TO COME BACK TO YOU WITH SOME STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES FOR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW. WHAT YOU HAVE PWR-F YOU, ATTACHED TO THE AGENDA IS WHAT WE DEVELOPED AND WE HAVE SUBMITTED IT TO THE BUILDER AND DEVELOPER AND HAVE NOT RECEIVED COMMENT BACK. THIS EXERCISE ACTUALLY GAVE US SOME OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THE REVIEW PROCESS.

ONE THING WE THOUGHT ABOUT WAS THAT WE ACCEPT PARTIAL APPLICATIONS FOR DEVELOPMENT PLANS.

WE HAVEN'T REQUIRED THAT ALL OF THE PIECES BE SUBMITTED AND THAT CAN BE A PROBLEM WHEN WE HAVE A LONGER INITIAL REVIEW PERIOD AND THEN SHORTER FOR SUBSEQUENT REVIEWS.

SO WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW IS REQUIRING THAT IT BE A COMPLETE SUBMITTAL. THE STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES HAVE LOOK -- LOOKED AT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE COMPLETE.

BASICALLY WHEN PLANS ARE COMPLETE THEY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS VERY QUICKLY. WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF COMMENTS TO GET BACK ALL OF OUR -- TO GET BACK.

ALL OF OUR CODES ARE ONLINE. BASICALLY THE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE. WE HAVE THE DRC COMMITTEE MEETINGS WHICH IS A GOOD TIME TO IDENTIFY ANY RED FLAGS FOR A PROJECT. AT THAT TIME WE CAN GIVE YOU THE REQUIREMENTS FOR WHAT A PROJECT NEEDS.

SO THE EXPECTATIONS ARE OUT THERE.

OUR NEW SOFTWARE, APPLICANTS CAN REVIEW THE COMMENTS THAT WE ARE MAKING IN REALTIME WE ARE REVIEWING THEM.

START THE PREPARATION AND IT IS THE NEW SOFTWARE THAT HAS BASICALLY A DASHBOARD WHICH HELPS US TO STAY ON TRACK.

IT TELLS US WHAT IS OVERDUE AND WHAT IS COMING DUE IN THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS AND IT IS POINTING US TO GETTING THE REVIEW DONE IN A TIMELY MANNER. WE ALSO HAVE THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW COORDINATOR WHO WILL FIELD CALLS FROM THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY. SHE ALSO IS THE ONE US THE PLANS. SHE HELPS US STAY ON TRACK.

AND SHE IS PROBABLY THE BEST PERSON TO ASK ANY QUESTION SPECIFICALLY ABOUT OUR SOFTWARE. THE OTHER THING IS WE THOUGHT IF YOU HAD INTEREST IN THAT WE COULD COME BACK TO YOU AT A LATER DATE AND REALLY GIVE YOU AN INTRODUCTION TO OUR SOFTWARE AND SHOW YOU WHAT IT IS IF YOU'RE INTERESTED.

BEYOND THAT WE ARE STILL WORKING AND WE KNOW WE NEED TO UPDATE OUR WEBSITE WITH THE NEW ELECTRONIC WE HAVE LANGUAGE ABOUT THE FORMER PROCESS.

WE WILL START PROVIDING THE INFORMATION OF THE DRC THAT SHOWS EXACTLY WHAT IS NEEDED. WE ARE GOING TO PUT THAT ON THE NEW WEBSITE WITH EACH TYPE OF SUBMITTAL THERE IS THE ABILITY TO PUT A BLURB TO DESCRIBE WHAT IS NEEDED.

THAT'S WHAT IS NEEDED. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS?

>> THANK YOU, CHAIR. FIRST OFF LET ME JUST SAY THAT -- GREAT JOB.

WE APPRECIATE YOU GUYS GOING BACK AND REALLY LINING OUT IN DETAIL -- FOR THE COMMISSIONS BENEFIT, IF YOU RECALL THIS WAS BECAUSE THERE WAS A LANGUAGE IN THE -- LANGUAGE IN OUR CODE, I

[02:00:02]

AND WE ALL AGREE THAT THE AUTOMATIC APPROVAL WAS QUESTIONABLE. I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT STAFF DID A GREAT JOB OF PUTTING UP 20 WORKING DAYS FOR REVIEW AND TO OFFER FEEDBACK AND ANY MODIFICATIONS TO COMMENTS HAVE BEEN CREATED AND SUBMITTED AND STAFF HAD ANOTHER 10 DAYS ON TOP OF THAT. THOSE ARE WORKABLE TIME FRAMES AND I APPRECIATE STAFF GOING BACK AND CLARIFYING THAT.

THE ONLY QUESTION I HAD ON THE FIRST PART OF THIS WAS -- IN THE FIRST SEN ASSISTANCE IT SAYS DEEMED A COMPLETED PRELIMINARY PLAN APPLICATION. IT SEEMS A LITTLE AMBIGUOUS -- OR ORB TRAER -- ASH -- -- TRAER, DEEMED.

IS THERE ANY OTHER CLAIREMONT TPAU LOCATION WE NEED?

>> ARE YOU LOOKING AT THE SECTION THAT DEALS WITH COMPLETED PLAN APPLICATIONS AND WE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THAT TO THE DRC MEETING AND THE VARIOUS REVIEWERS THE PLANNING AND ZONING AND ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENT -- THEY WILL BE CHECKED OFF ON THIS LIST. FOR INSTANCE, NOT EVERY PROJECT REQUIRES A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY, A SITE IMPACT STUDY.

IF IT DOES REQUIRE IT, WE WILL HAVE THAT CHECKED OFF.

WHEN THE PERSON LEAVES THE MEETING OR SHORTLY AFTER, EITHER WE WILL EMAIL THIS OR PROVIDE THEM A COPY OR WE'LL PUT IT IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT FILE FOR THE WHOLE DEVELOPMENT PLAN SO THEY WILL HAVE ACCESS AND KNOW WHAT THEY NEED TO HAVE A COMPLETE PATIENT. SO WHEN IT IS SUBMITTED SHE KNOWS THIS IS WHAT SHE NEEDS SO THEY HAVE THE SAME EXPECTATION.

KEEPING IT CLEAR AND TRANSPARENT MAKES THE WHOLE PROCESS SO MUCH EASIER. DEEMED MEANS THIS IS THE TOTAL LIST OF WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED, BUT THE LIST MAY BE WIDDLED DOWN BASED ON THE SPECIFIC PROJECT. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I APPRECIATE IT. >> DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION?

>> I HAD JUST ONE. I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW THE MATH WORKED. FROM THE FLORIDA STATUTE, IT IS IN THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT OF TECH CONTROL PLAN.

THE BUILDING PERMIT FOR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DWELLING ISSUED IN 30 DAYS, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

WHAT CAUGHT MY EYE IS THE LOCAL ENFORCEMENT AGENCY FAILS TO ISSUE A BUILDING PERMIT FOR A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DWELLING WITHIN 30 DAYS IT MUST REDUCE THE BUILDING PERMIT FEE BY 10% FOR EACH BUSINESS DAY THAT IT FAILS TO MEET THE DEADLINE. I THINK THIS IS CLEAR.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE. EACH 10% REDUCTION WILL BE BASED ON THE ORIGINAL BUILDING FEE. ESSENTIALLY IN 10 DAYS, THE FEE

DROPS TO ZERO. >> WE HAVE OUR EXPERTS.

>> SO JUST TO CLARIFY IF I COULD , I THINK WE ONLY WENT THROUGH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. I DON'T THINK WE PRESENTED BUILDING SERVICES YET. HAVE YOU PRESENTED THAT? OR ARE YOU ENCOMPASSING ALL OF THIS TOGETHER?

THEN YOU JUMPED AHEAD. >> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE MATH. BASICALLY YOU TAKE 100%, 10% EVERY TIME OUT OF THAT ORIGINAL NUMBER AND IT IS GONE IN 10 DAYS. IS THAT HOW IT IS CALCULATED? I WASN'T SURE IF IT WAS 10% AND THEN 10% OF WHAT WAS LEFT AND

10% OF WHAT WAS LEFT. >> THEY ARE REGIONAL FEES.

>> BASICALLY WE HAVE 10 DAYS AND AFTER 10 DAYS IT IS A FREE

PERMIT. >> CORRECT.

>> HOW DOES THAT WORK FOR YOU? >> I'M SURE STAFF WILL DO A GREAT JOB. IF WE ARE GONNA ASK ABOUT BUILDING DEVELOPMENT, THEN I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.

IF THERE'S MORE THAT THE STAFF WANTS TO PRESENT --

>> I HAVE ONE QUESTION, IF I MAY.

IS THERE A MECHANISM IN PLACE TO STOP THE CLOCK? LIKE INCOMPLETENESS OR FAILURE TO SIGN OR YOUR CHECK BOUNCED?

>> THAT'S ALL A PART OF IT. WE DON'T GET THE CHECK UNTIL THE END SO THE 30-DAY CLOCK IS RUNNING PRIOR TO ANY MONEY HAPPENING. IF IT IS AN IN INCOMPLETE SUBMITTAL, ONCE WE RETURN COMMENTS, THEN THAT STOPS THAT

[02:05:02]

ANYTHING WITH IT. >> THERE SHOULD BE NO INCOMPLETE APPLICATION. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE ADDRESSING ON OUR CHECKLIST. WE ACTUALLY HAVE A STATUS IN THE APPLICATION THAT IS VERIFIED. THAT'S WHERE IT GOES THROUGH THE PACKAGE AND WE HAVE THE IF YOU HAVE AN ADDRESS AND THAT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE A SET OF PLANS WITH THE DOCUMENTS IN IT.

THEY ARE TO THE REVIEWING THE PLAN AND WE HAVE A VALID SITE PLAN THAT THOSE ARE IN. AND THEN THAT IS A COMPLETE PACKAGE AND IT IS VERIFIED AND THEN IT STARTS RUNNING THROUGH THE PROCESS. AND THAT'S WHEN THE 30-DAYTIME

LINE STARTS. >> IF I MAY? THANK YOU FOR COMING. WE LOVE HAVING YOU AT THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETINGS.

PLEASE COME MORE OFTEN. THE QUESTION -- COMMISSIONER ASKED ONE AND THE DAYS ADJUST ON RSIDENTIAL APPLICATIONS AS I UNDERSTAND IT TO 30-DAY REVIEW TIMES.

AND SO THEN MY QUESTION THEN PERTAINS TO THE COMMENTS BACK.

SO IF THE COUNTY ISSUES COMMENTS BACK ON THE PERMIT APPLICATION THAT HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED BY THE APPLICANT, THEN THE WAY I READ THIS IS THEY HAVE 10 DAYS TO GET THE ANSWERS BACK TO YOU.

AND IF THEY DON'T RESPOND WITHIN 10 DAYS THE PERMIT IS DENIED.

IS THAT CORRECT? >> IF THEY RESPOND BACK THEY HAVE 10 DAYS AND WE HAVE 10 DAYS TO RESPOND BACK.

SO THE PERMIT APPLICATION IS NOT DE NIGHT, BUT IT MEANS THE CLOCK RESETS FOR WHEN YOUR RESPONSE IN ENGINEER OR AN HVAC ENGINEER AND IT CAN TAKE A LOT MORE THAN 10 DAYS.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY DON'T HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN. I THINK THAT CONCLUDES MY

QUESTION. >> I HAVE ONE QUESTION THAT I THOUGHT OF. IS THERE A TIME LIMIT HOW LONG

THE BUILDING PERMIT IS ACTIVE? >> 180 DAYS IS KIND OF THE CLOCK. IT IS FROM THE SUBMITTAL TIME -- IF I TELL YOU YOUR PERMIT IS READY TO BE PICKED UP.

180 DAYS FROM THAT TIME PERIOD AND YOU DON'T COME AND PAY FOR THE PERMIT AND PICK IT UP, IT IS CONSIDERED ABANDONED.

>> THAT'S A GOOD ANSWER AND THAT'S GOOD INFORMATION.

WHAT I WAS ACTUALLY ASKING WAS ONCE I HAVE THE PERMIT AND I HAVE PAID FOR IT IS THERE A TERMINATION DATE? HOW LONG UNTIL HAVE I TO ASK FOR A CO.

>> IT IS THE SAME TUNDRY. YOU WOULD HAVE 180 DAYS BETWEEN APPROVED INSPECTIONS. YOU HAVE TO BE MAKE SOMETHING KIND OF A PRAGUE -- PROGRESS. IF YOU GET PLUMBING INSPECTIONS, 180 STARTS AGAIN. SO YEARS.

WE HAVE THEM THAT DO THAT. >> THAT MAKES SENSE.

IF SOMEBODY IS DOING THEIR OWN HOME ON THEIR SPARE TIME, IT

COULD TAKE UH WHILE -- AWHILE. >> I DON'T RECOMMEND IT.

>> HIRE A CONTRACTOR. >> OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND THANK YOU, BETH AND STAFF FOR PUTTING THIS TOGETHER FOR US.

WE ARE NOW AT THE LAST PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD.

I DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE IS HERE. SEEING NO ONE I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND IS THERE ANY NEW BUSINESS OR OLD BUSINESS?

>> IMAGINE THAT. YOU GUYS LOVE ME I KNOW.

>> I'M SORRY. EXCUSE ME.

I BELIEVE WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE JULY MEETING BECAUSE THE DATE WOULD FALL ON THE FOURTH OF JULY AND SO WE NEED TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT WHEN WE CAN POSSIBLY MOVE IT TO.

[02:10:01]

MEETING IS AVAILABLE. >> THAT'S WHAT I THINK WE HAVE DONE IN PREVIOUS YEARS. WE JUST PUSHED IT TO THURSDAY.

>> I MEAN, I CAN [INAUDIBLE] A COUPLE DAYS IF I NEED TO, BUT THAT'S THE FIRST AVAILABLE DATE FOR JULY THAT I WOULD RECOMMEND.

>> I'M FINE WITH THAT. >> IS THAT OKAY WITH EVERYONE? WE'LL GO WITH THE RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF.

MS. HENRY -- >> HERE, HERE.

>> JUST THING REAL QUICK, ARTICLE [INAUDIBLE] WGI, WE WILL HAVE THAT BEFORE US AND YOU WILL IS -- YOU WILL IS --

HAVE IT IN MAY. >> MS. CHAIRMAN?

>> YES. >> WHAT I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT, I THINK THIS IS NOT A HUGE ADMINISTRATIVE ASK AND SHARICE, THIS PROBABLY FALLS YOU OR ED TO DELEGATE, BUT OFTEN WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS THE FINAL DEPOSITION OF THE ISSUES WE DEAL WITH IN JOAN -- IN ZONING AND PLANNING LAND USE.

WHEN YOU WANT ONE, WE CAN ALWAYS GO AND FIND IT ON THE KOUPB -- THE COUNTY WEBSITE AND LOOK AT THE BCC MEETING.

I WOULD SUGGEST THAT EVERY MONTH WE GET A LITTLE SUMMARY, NOTHING BIG, BASICALLY A LITTLE CHART THAT SAYS FOR THIS ITEM THE PLANNING STAFF RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OR PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED DENIAL, BCC DID APPROVE IT.

JUST SO WE CAN SEE WHAT -- WE HAVE A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON IT AND A LOT OF PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN WE JUST THROW IT OVER THE WALL. IF YOU DON'T MAKE AN EFFORT TO GO AND FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED, YOU DON'T ALWAYS FIND OUT.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS AS MUCH OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE OVERHEAD AND I

THINK IT WOULD BE INFORMATIVE. >> A GOOD SUMMARY.

>> I HAVE ONE PERSON HERE THAT AGREES WITH ME.

>> THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

ANY OTHER NEW BUSINESS OR OLD BUSINESS? SEEING NONE I AM GOING TO DECLARE THE MEETING ADJOURNED.

THANK YOU,

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.