[Call to Order] [00:00:11] >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: WELCOME, EVERYBODY. I WILL CALL TO ORDER THE MEETING OF THE CLAY COUNTY CLAY COUNTY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FOR JANUARY 17. THIS MEETING WAS RESCHEDULED FROM JANUARY 3. NORMALLY WE MEET ON FIRST TUESDAY OF THE MONTH. BEFORE WE GET STARTED WITH ANY OF OUR BUSINESS HERE, IF I CAN ASK EVERYONE TO STAND AND MR. BOURRE WILL LEAD US IN A PLEDGE. >> I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE OF THE FLAG OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: AS WE GET STARTED HERE, I AM GOING TO DO SOME INTRODUCTIONS OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE HERE IN THE ROOM. MY NAME IS RALPH PUCKHABER. I AM THE CHAIRMAN OF THIS BOARD FOR THIS YEAR. STARTING OVER HERE ON MY RIGHT ON THE DAIS IS CHRISTINE BLANCHARD. A RECORDING SECRETARY FROM THE CLERK'S OFFICE AND TAKES OUR MINUTES FOR US. THEN WE HAVE COMMISSIONER PETE DAVIS. COMMISSIONER BO NORTON. TO MY RIGHT IS MARY BRIDGEMAN, OUR VICE-CHAIR. MICHAEL BOURRE. JOE ANZALONE AND BILL GARRISON. OUR SCHOOL BOARD REP LANCE ADDISON IS ABSENT HERE TONIGHT. IN THE ROOM DODIE SELIG, OUR CHIEF PLANNER. BACK HERE WE HAVE MIKE BROWN, OUR ZONING CHIEF. BETH CARSON, WHO IS DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND ZONING. AND OVER HERE I SEE OUR ED LAYMAN IS HERE. HE IS OUR DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND ZONING. COUNTY MANAGER IS IN THE ROOM. ALSO THINK MR. MOCK IS HERE, ONE OF OUR ASSISTANT COUNTY MANAGER AND FIRE CHIEF. COURTNEY GRIMM IS HERE AND HER ASSISTANT, JAMIE HOVDA. DID I MISS EVERYBODY? I THINK I GOT EVERYBODY. AS ALWAYS, WE WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE CLAY COUNTY CLAY COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE TO PROVIDING SECURITY AND SERGEANT DOUGER IS HERE. I DID MENTION ED LAYMAN? OK OKAY. >> OKAY, SORRY. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THIS BOARD IS AN ADVISORY BOARD TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. SO THE ITEMS THAT WE WILL HEAR TONIGHT, WE WILL MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ON HOW TO PROCEED WITH THEM. I BELIEVE SINCE WE ARE MEETING LATE IN THE MONTH, THEY WILL HEAR THESE ON THE 24ST NEXT BEAK. IS THAT RIGHT? THEY WILL HEAR THESE ITEMS A WEEK FROM TODAY. THEIR MEETING STARTS AT 4:00, BUT ALL THE ZONING COMES AFTER 5:00. I ALREADY MENTIONED ABOUT THE COMMENT CARDS IF YOU WANTED TO SPEAK. IF YOU CAN FILL OUT A CARD FOR US. I AM GOING -- I AM PRETTY SURE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT ATTENDED ONE OF THESE MEETINGS BEFORE, SO I JUST WANT TO GIVE EVERYBODY A QUICK IDEA WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE. THE PROCESS HERE. WE WILL, FIRST, BRING THE ITEM UP. THE STAFF WILL GIVE THEIR REPORT AND RECOMMENDATION. THIS BOARD CAN THEN QUESTION THE STAFF FOR CLARIFICATION. AFTER THAT, WE WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FROM WHICH TIME WE WILL HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT. WE WILL HEAR FROM A CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE REPRESENTATIVE, IF THAT IS PERTINENT. WE WILL HEAR FROM ANYONE ELSE IN THE PUBLIC THAT WISHES TO SPEAK. AND WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING ONCE EVERYBODY WHO WANTS TO SPEAK HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO. AND AT THAT POINT, THIS BOARD WILL DISCUSS THE ITEM AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. ONCE THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED, WE ASK THAT YOU REFRAIN FROM ANY COMMENTS. FEW HOUSEKEEPING ISSUES. IF YOU HAVE CELL PHONES, WE APPRECIATE YOU PUT THEM ON SILENT. THE OTHER ITEM IS, WHEN YOU DO COME UP TO SPEAK DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING, WE ASK THAT YOU LIMIT YOUR COMMENTS TO THREE MINUTES. THERE IS A LITTLE TIMER ON THE PODIUM THERE. AND IT WILL START FLASHING RED WHEN YOUR TIME IS UP. WE ASK IF YOU ARE NOT FINISHED PLEASE DO SO RIGHT AT THAT POINT IN TIME ANYTHING ELSE? [00:05:02] THAT'S IT? THANK YOU. SO WITH THAT, WE WILL LAUNCH INTO OUR AGENDA FOR TONIGHT. [1.  Approval of Minutes] FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM DECEMBER 6, FROM LAST MONTH. I ASSUME EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK THOSE OVER. ANY COMMENTS, CONCERNS OR A MOTION. >> I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE. >> AND A SECOND. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: AND A SECOND. I HAVE SEEN NO COMMENTS. IN ALL FAVOR OF APPROVING THE DECEMBER MINUTES, SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. I AM GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD HERE. IT IS A COMMENT PERIOD THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY PERTAIN TO ANY OF THE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA, BUT IF ANYBODY HAS ANYTHING THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT IS PERTINENT TO THIS BOARD BUT NOT ON THE AGENDA, THEY CAN COME FORWARD AND DO SO. SO I AM GOING TO OPEN THAT COMMENT PERIOD. I DON'T HAVE ANY CARDS ON THIS AND I DON'T SEE ANYONE [1.  Public Hearing to consider CPA-2022-19 and PUD-2022-11. (District 2, Comm. Compere) (D. Selig)] APPROACHING. SO I WILL GO AHEAD AND CLOSE THAT AND WE WILL MOVE RIGHT INTO OUR AGENDA WITH ITEM NUMBER 1. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER CPA-2022-19 AND PUD-2 PUD-2011-11. DODIE, DO YOU HAVE BOTH OF THESE. >>DODIE SELIG: YES, I DO. THE PROPERTY INVOLVED -- THERE ARE ACTUALLY TWO PARCELS FOR THIS APPLICATION. JUST OVER 21 ACRES. THIS IS IN THE DOCTORS LAKE RIDGEWOOD IN COMMISSIONER COMPERE'S DISTRICT 2 ON NORTH SIDE OF BLANDING BOULEVARD. THE FUTURE LAND USE CHANGE WILL CHANGE FROM UC-10 URBAN CORE 10 TO URBAN CORE 16. AND REZONING WILL CHANGE THE REZONING FOR THE PARCELS FROM AR, AGRICULTURE RESIDENTIAL TO PUD, WHICH IS PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT. THE PARCELS ARE HATCHED ON THE LEFT, AND IN YELLOW ON THE RIGHT ON THE AERIAL. ON THE LEFT IS THE EXISTING FUTURE LAND USE SHOWING ALL THE BROWN IS THE UC-10. RED IS COMMERCIAL. AND ON THE RIGHT WE HAVE THE PROPOSED FUTURE LAND USE, A SLIGHTLY DARKER BROWN SINCE IT IS THE SAME GENERAL CATEGORY, URBAN CORE. ON THE LEFT HERE, WE HAVE THE ZONING MAP, SHOWING THE EXISTING ZONING. AND ON THE RIGHT IS THE FLOOD ZONE MAP. A SMALL AMOUNT OF FLOOD ZONE LANDS ON THE EXTREME WEST PORTION OF THE PARCELS. THIS IS THE SITE PLAN THAT WAS EXHIBIT C IN THE WRITTEN DESCRIPTION OF THE PUD FOR THE REZONING. THE APPLICANT IS INTENDING TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY AS MARKET RATE MULTIFAMILY APARTMENTS. AND THERE WOULD BE 270 IN NINE BUILDINGS PLUS A CLUBHOUSE, POOL, AND ASSOCIATED AMENITIES. THERE WOULD BE A STORMWATER TO THE SOUTHWEST, AS WELL AS THE WETLANDS THAT WILL BE PRESERVED IN THE CENTER. SOME ARE WILL BE MITIGATED AND THE OTHER PRESERVED IN THE CENTER PART OF THE PARCEL. STAFF HAS REVIEWED THE CRITERIA FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT. FINDS THEY HAVE BEEN MET AND RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF T THE CPA-2022-19, AND LIKELY WITH THE REZONING CONDITIONS HAVE BEEN MET. AND, THEREFORE, RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF PUD-2022-11. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU. ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? ON THIS ONE? I BET WE HAVE SOME AFTER. IS THE APPLICANT HERE, PLEASE? >> GOOD EVENING, STACEY RUIZ. 1 INDEPENDENT DRIVE. IT PLEASURE TO BE HERE BEFORE THIS BOARD. WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROJECT. WITH ME TODAY IS MARK SHELTON, THE LAND PLANNER FOR THE PROJECT WITH KIMLEY-HORN AND DOUG STILES, OUR ENGINEER FOR THE PROJECT. AS PRESENTED BY STAFF, YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU A PROPOSED MULTIFAMILY PROJECT. WE ARE SEEKING TO CHANGE T THE UC-10 LAND USE DESIGNATION TO UC-16 TO ALLOW A BUILTI [00:10:06] FAMILY PROJECT AT A DENSITY OF NINE UNITS.ER ACRE NOT AT THE MAXIMUM OF 16 AS YOU WILL SEE AGRICULTURE RESIDENTIAL TO PUD. IN THE PUD WE FOLLOWED THE CODE WITH THE TYPICAL MULTIFAMILY, THE SAME SETBACKS, BUILDING HEIGHTS AND SUCH AND NOT MUCH OF A DEVELOP NATION AT OF THE CODE IN AND OF ITSELF. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MR. SULTAN COME UP TO SPEAK ON THE PLANNING ASPECTS OF THIS. >> THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS MARK SHELTON WITH KIMLEY-HORN AND ASSOCIATES. MY ADDRESS 12740 GRAND BAY PARKWAY WEST, SUITE 2350, JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, 33250. I AM THE PLANNER WORKING ON THIS PROJECT AND CERTIFIED AICP. I'M HERE BEFORE YOU TONIGHT TO ASK FOR YOU A APPROVAL AT THE MULTIFAMILY PROJECT AT BLANDING AND OAK LANE AND AGREE WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL. INFILL PROJECT SURROUNDED THREE TIMES WITH COMMERCIAL USES WITH THE FOURTH WITH THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND PROPERTY APPRAISER. ACCESS ON OAK LANE BUT NOT BEAR RUN. WE DON'T HAVE PROPERTY ADJACENT TO BEAR RUN. AS STACEY MENTIONED WE CRAFTED A PUD TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE RD DISTRICT WHICH IS THE MULTIFAMILY DISTRICT IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. ONE OF THE VARIATIONS OF IT IS THAT WE HAVE NOT TRIPLE, NOT QUADRUPLE, BUT INCREASED THE SETBACK FROM THE WESTERN PROPERTY LINE FROM BUILDINGS TO 135 FEET WHICH IS FIVE TIMES THE TYPICAL SETBACK. I WILL GET TO THAT IN JUST A MINUTE. THE PROPERTY IS WITHIN THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, THEREFORE, IT IS NOT CONSIDERED SPRAWL. IT IS IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO FIRE PROTECTION, MEDICAL SERVICES, AND ARTERIAL ROAD, SCHOOLS AND MASS TRANSIT, CONSISTENT WITH FUTURE LAND USE POLICY 1.4.5. IT SERVES AS A GOOD TRANSITION FROM THE COMMERCIAL ALONG BLANDING GOING FORTH. WE ALSO HAVE RESERVED SCHOOL CONCURRENCY FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD AND ADEQUATE FOR ELEMENTARY, MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOL. AND I WIN LANCE WAS HERE TO CONFIRM THAT, BUT WE DO HAVE THE CERTIFICATE FROM HIM. FURTHER, WE RECEIVED CORRESPONDENCE FROM F. D.O.T., AND THEY DO NOT HAVE ISSUE WITH THE INTERSECTION OF BLANDING AND OAK LANE WITH THIS PROJECT INCLUDED. FINALLY AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE SITE PLAN, THIS IS AT WESTERN PROPERTY LINE I WAS REFERRING TO, A 40-FOOT DRAINAGE EASEMENT ALONG THE SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES ALONG THE WESTERN PROPERTY LINE. WITHIN THAT 40-FOOT EASEMENT IS A NO USE ZONE, A 20-FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER WITH COMPLEMENTARY LANDSCAPING OR A FENCE OR A BERM. PUSHED BACK THE SITE OF THE PARKING 55 FEET. AS I MENTIONED BEFORE 135 FEET FOR THE BUILDING. WE MADE A CONSCIOUS EFFORT TO PUSH THE BUILDINGS INTERNAL AND NOT EXTERNAL AS TO NOT AFFECT OUR NEIGHBORITH THIS, I KNOW THE A LOT OF PEOPLE TO SPEAK TONIGHT. I WOULD LIKE TO RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR TIME FOR REBUTTAL AFTER WE HEAR FROM THE OPPOSITION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, SIR. ALL RIGHT, I AM GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING NOW. AND I AM JUST GOING TO GO THROUGH THESE COMMENT CARDS THAT I HAVE IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER. JUST KIND OF -- I HAVE THEM HERE. THE FIRST PERSON I HAVE IS LAWRENCE MAY. AND AFTER LAWRENCE WILL BE MICHELLE HORD. WHEN YOU COME UP, IF YOU WOULD JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. JUST ONE MOMENT BEFORE YOU START, SIR. I WANT TO MENTION THAT I SAW HER KIND OF SLIP IN THE BACK WHEN I WAS MAKING INTRODUCTION, OUR NEWEST COMMISSIONER MISS COMPERE. I BELIEVE THAT IS CORRECT, COMPERE HAS JOINED US AS WELL. YES, SIR. YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. >> LAWRENCE MAY, 1264 RUSHING DRIVE, ORANGE PARK. I AM A RESIDENT OF BEAR RUN WHICH IS ADJACENT TO THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION HERE. MYSELF, I FEEL THAT GOING WITH [00:15:07] THE 300 HADN'T UNIT APARTMENT COMPLEX IN THAT SMALL LITTLE AREA THERE. TRYING TO OUTFLOW INTO OAK LANE IS LUDICROUS. OAK LANE IS NOT CAPABLE OF ANY ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC. DURING RUSH HOUR WITH THE SCHOOLS, IT'S -- IT'S CRAZY. AND THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN BE DONE WITH THAT OAK LANE BECAUSE NO TURN LANE THERE. YOU SEE THE TRAFFIC IS BACKED UP TO OLD JENNINGS ROAD FROM BLANDING. PEOPLE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE GOING OUT OF THE WINN-DIXIE, GETTING SMASHED INTO. IT IS A NIGHTMARE. AND TO ADD 300 UNITS TO THAT. IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. I REALLY HOPE SOMEBODY LOOKS AT THAT TRAFFIC THING THEY DID. IT'S -- YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION SCHOOL TIME. IT'S -- YOU KNOW, ON A GIVEN DAY IT IS NOT THAT BAD, BUT PEEK, THAT ROAD IS NOT ABLE TO HANDLE IT. THAT WAS A DIRT ROAD NOT LONG AGO. SO I HOPE YOU GUYS CONSIDER MAYBE TURNING THIS ONE DOWN. I THINK SOMETHING LIKE THAT -- THAT PROPERTY NEEDS TO BE SINGLE RESIDENCE. MAYBE THROW 30, 40 HOMES ON IT. NOT 300 UNITS. I HOPE YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT THAT. THANK YOU. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, SIR. NEXT I HAVE MICHELLE HORD. AND FOLLOWING MICHELLE WOULD BE MARSHAL WOOD. >> MY NAME IS MICHELLE HORD AND I LIVE AT 1321 RUSHING DRIVE. I WOULD LIKE TO REITERATE WHAT HE IS. AT THIS PARTICULAR CORNER I WAS AT WALGREEN'S LAST WEEK TRYING TO GET AT THE FURTHEST EXIT AWAY FROM THE LIGHT. THERE WERE TEN CARS LINED UP AT THAT LIGHT. YOU WILL PUT 270 APARTMENTS, TWO CARS APIECE WOULD BE 540 CARS ON THAT LITTLE INTERSECTION. THE KIDS WHEN THEY GET OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL, THEY USE THOSE BACK ROADS AND THEY GO DOWN SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO STOP AT THE LIGHT UP THERE AT RIDGEVIEW HIGH SCHOOL GOING ON TO BLANDING. IF YOU GO DOWN SOUTH TO THE NEXT ROAD DOWN WHERE THERE IS NOT A LIGHT, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET OUT THERE ESPECIALLY TURNING LEFT BECAUSE OF THE TAG AGENCY, THE HEALTH AGENCY, AND THAT AREA DOWN IN THERE DOES FLOOD. YOU PAY TO DO THE ROADS IN THE BACK OF THE SUBDIVISION BECAUSE IT FLOODS. AND IT STILL FLOODS. SO TAKING THIS LAND, I THINK, IS RIDICULOUS. IN THE SCHOOL -- MAYBE THE SCHOOL SAYS THEY CAN HANDLE IT, BUT WE KEEP BUILDING UNITS. SO MAYBE THEY REALLY CAN'T HANDLE IT. THAT IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT. I AM SO AGAINST THIS. AND WE WILL KEEP FIGHTING IT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, MA'AM. NEXT IS MARSHAL WOOD. AND AFTER MR. WOOD WOULD BE ANNE MARIE MAY. >> MY NAME IS MARSHAL MAY, GUILTY AS CHARGED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK ON THE BOARD. WE APPRECIATE WHAT YOU ARE DOING. YOUR JOB IS BALANCE EQUALITY OF LIFE WITH ECONOMIC PROGRESS WITHIN THE CONFINES OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND ON ENJOYABLE, HEALTHY LIVING ENVIRONMENT FOR OUR COMMUNITY. I ASSUME IN GOOD FAITH THAT NO CONFLICTS OF INTEREST IN THIS MATTER WITH REGARDS COUNTY GOVERNMENT OPERATIVES AND THE DEVELOPERS OF THIS PROJECT AND OTHER OUTSIDE AGENTS THAT SPRAY AN INTEREST IN CHANGING THE POLITICAL, RELIGIOUS AND SOCIAL ENVIRONMENT OF CLAY COUNTY CLAY COUNTY. SOME THINGS THAT GO BEYOND WHAT SOME PEOPLE ARE HERE TO PROTEST WITH THEIR HIDDEN AGENDAS ALL OVER THE WORLD TODAY POLITICALLY. ALL OF YOU WERE ELECTED BY CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTY. AND THIS IS A COUNTY OF RELATIVELY CONSERVATIVE, FAMILY-ORIENTED PEOPLE. KEEP THAT IN MIND AS THIS PROPOSAL IS CONSIDERED. I AM RETIRED AIR FORCE OFFICER WHO INTENTIONALLY CHOSE OUR POST-RETIREMENT RESIDENTS AS CLAY COUNTY CLAY COUNTY, FLORIDA, SPECIFICALLY AFTER AN EXHAUSTIVE SURVEY 30 YEARS AGO OF POTENTIAL RELOCATION AREAS. I HAD NO COLLECTION TO THIS AREA BUT CLAY COUNTY CLAY COUNTY AND ORANGE PARK STOOD OUT IN A DECISION MATRIX I CONSTRUCTED AS TO WHERE WE ARE GOING TO RETIRE AFTER THE AIR FORCE. AT THE TIME I HAVE SIX SONS AND WONDERFUL WIFE. AND WE DECIDED JUST TO PLANT OURSELVES SOMEWHERE AND STOP ALL THE MOVES WE HAD IN THE AIR FORCE. [00:20:01] THIS IS GREAT PLACE TO LIVE. I HAVE BEEN POLITICALLY ACTIVE IN THE NORTHEAST FLORIDA REGION AS A GRASS-ROOTS ADVOCATE OF CHRISTIAN AND CONSERVATIVE CAUSES. I WROTE AND PUBLISHED A BOOK IN 2014 CALLED "THE BIGGER PICTURE" PUBLISHED BY CREATION HOUSE IN 2014. ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO LOOK AT THAT REVIEW IT AT AMAZON.COM AND THE VALUES I SUPPORT AND WHY I STAND HERE TONIGHT. NOW LASTLY, TRAFFIC ON BLANDING WITH AS A NIGHTMARE IN 1991 WHEN WE RETIRED HERE. AND NOW IN 2023, AFTER MANY WIDENING AND IMPROVEMENTS, BLANDING IS STILL A NIGHTMARE. THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THIS COUNTRY HAS NOT KEPT UP WITH THE UNRESTRICTED AND I BELIEVE FOOLISH GROWTH. ALL ECONOMIC CONSIDERATIONS NOT WITHSTANDING. YOU, EVERYONE SITTING ON THIS BOARD, WILL CONTRIBUTE TO THE PROBLEM IF YOU DO NOT HELP US ELIMINATE THE DANGEROUS AND I INTENTIONALLY USE THAT WORD -- SITUATION THAT THIS SEEMINGLY LITTLE INNOCUOUS ADDITION THE PROPONENTS FROM THE OLD INDEPENDENT LIFE BUILDING DOWNTOWN WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE REPRESENTS. FOOLISH IF WE DO THAT. FOOLISH, AND I HOPE YOU DON'T ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, SIR. ANNNMARIE MAY AND AFTER THAT JOANNE HILBOLD. HILDEBOLD. >> HELLO. MY NAME IS ANNMARIE MAY. 1264 RUSHING DRIVE. I'M HERE TO PROTEST THIS AS WELL. I HAVE BEEN A RESIDENT OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD FOR OVER 30 YEARS NOW. I HAVE RAISED MY CHILDREN IN THIS LITTLE SUBDIVISION. AND MY REASONS FOR PROTESTING THIS IS THERE IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR INCREASE OF TRAFFIC. I READ THEIR TRAFFIC REPORT. THEY ONLY DID A TRAFFIC REPORT ON OAK LANE FROM 4 TO 6 P.M. WHICH IS -- WHICH IS CRAZY BECAUSE I -- I GO TO WORK EVERY DAY AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE HIGH SCHOOL TRAFFIC TO DEAL WITH EVERY DAY. AND SCHOOL BUSES AND WHAT NOT THAT GO ON OAK LANE. AND I THOUGHT IT WAS KIND OF ODD THAT THEY DID THAT. ANOTHER POINT IS, THERE IS NO TURN LANES OR ARROWS AT LIGHT BOX AND OAK. I HAVE SAT AT THAT TRAFFIC LIGHT FOR TWO OR THREE LIGHT CHANGES -- >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: EXCUSE ME A MINUTE, THE AUDIENCE WILL REFRAIN FROM COMMENTING ONCE THE SPEAKERS ARE SPEAKING. IT IS THEIR OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THEIR STATEMENT. THANK YOU. I AM SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU. >> THAT'S ALL RIGHT. THERE ARE A LOT OF ACCIDENTS. I DON'T BELIEVE THERE WAS A STUDY DONE ON THAT, BUT THERE HAS BEEN SOME SERIOUS ACCIDENTS. AND I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A STUDY DONE WITH THAT. I KNOW THAT CAN BE DONE. THE TAX COLLECTOR HAS A PRIVATE COMPANY THAT COMES IN FROM NOVEMBER TO JANUARY EVERY YEAR. THEY HIRE THIS COMPANY TO DIRECT TRAFFIC OFF OF BEAR RUN BOULEVARD WHICH HER SAYING THAT BEAR RUN BOULEVARD WILL NOT BE EFFECTED BUT I DON'T SEE HOW THAT COULD BE THAT IT WILL ONLY EFFECT OAK LANE. I WOULD LIKE -- AND MY TIME IS UP? >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: NO, YOU HAVE TIME. SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU AGAIN. >> THANK YOU. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: JOANNE -- IS IT HILDEBOLD. >> I AM 1300 BEAR RUN BOULEVARD. WE HAVE BEEN CITIZENS OF CLAY COUNTY CLAY COUNTY BEAR RUN FOR EVERY 30 YEARS. I AGREE WITH -- WITH 100% OF WHAT THE PEOPLE SAY. WITH REGARD TO THE SCHOOLS, THE AMOUNT OF PORTABLES REALLY SHOULD BE OBVIOUS ENOUGH AS TO WHETHER THIS SCHOOL DISTRICT CAN HANDLE THAT. MY MAIN ISSUE WITH IN BUILDING IS WHEN THEY BUILT THE WANT, MY HOUSE THAT I JUST HAD REFLOORED WITH WOOD FLOORS AND EVERYTHING. NEW CARPET. FLOODED. I AM ON THE CIRCLE OF BEAR RUN WHERE THE DRAIN IS. I KEEP MY DRAIN IMMACULATE. I KEEP MY YARD. I AM PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF BEAR RUN BOULEVARD. WE FLOODED. I TALKED TO THE COUNTY AND THEY SAID NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. IT IS JUST SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED. WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE, WE WERE NOT IN A FLOOD PLAIN. WE NOW HAVE FLOOD INSURANCE. THE TRAFFIC ON BEAR RUN ROAD -- [00:25:09] THEY THINK IT IS A PARKING LO THE. BEAR RUN BOULEVARD. ADDING 270 UNITS, PEOPLE WILL TAKE SHORTCUTS TO GET OUT. I AM RETIRED FROM THE NAVY AND THE STATE OF FLORIDA. I HAVE BEEN A CONTRIBUTING MEMBER TO MY -- TO CLAY COUNTY AND TO THE STATE OF FLORIDA. I AM NOT A RADICAL. ALTHOUGH I AM A DEMOCRAT. I JUST -- I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF MY HOUSE AND GO DOWN BEAR RUN AND GET ON BLANDING. I AM NOT ABLE TO DO THAT UNLESS I GO AROUND THE BLOCK, HIT THE LIGHT, AND HOPE THAT REALLY IS GOING FORWARD OR TURNING TO THE RIGHT, WHICH -- IT IS A HAZARD. WITH MORE BUILDING IN THAT AREA, I THINK THE FLOODING IS ONLY GOING TO INCREASE. AND EVERYBODY CAN SAY IT'S NOT, BUT THE PROOF IS THE PUDDING. THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION? I HEARD IT A COUPLE OF TIMES. IS THERE A WAY IN BEAR RUN THAT YOU GO OUT ON OAK LEAF LANE. >> WE DO THAT BECAUSE WE CAN'T LEAVE BEAR RUN. THANK GOODNESS I AM RETIRED. WHEN PEOPLE COME TO RENEW THEIR TAGS, THEY ARE BLACKED UP ON BLANDING BOULEVARD. I CALLED THE SHERIFF. THAT'S HOW IT IS. THE FACTS ARE THE FACTS. THE TRAFFIC IS HORRIBLE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, MA'AM. NEXT IS EDWARD ELSTER. AND FOLLOWING MR. ELSTER WILL BE RHEA THOMPSON WOULD BE NEXT. >> NAME IS EDWARD ELSTER. I HAVE BEEN A RESIDENT OF CLAY COUNTY CLAY COUNTY SINCE 1975. I HAVE BEEN A HOMEOWNER IN BEAR RUN SINCE 2000. ONE OF THE MAJOR PROBLEMS WE HAVE IN BEAR RUN IS WITH STORMWATER MITIGATION. IN 2010 THE COUNTY CAME OUT WITH A PLAN AND THEY WERE GOING TO MITIGATE THE PROBLEM AND THEY DECIDED IT WAS GOING TO COST TOO MUCH MONEY AND COUNTY COMMISSIONERS DECIDED TO SAVE A LITTLE BIT AND THEY DIDN'T GO THROUGH WITH EVERYTHING THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO. MY HOME WAS ONE OF THE ONES THAT WAS FLOODED IN 2008 DURING A SEVERE STORM. AND, YOU KNOW, MY FEELING IS THIS -- THIS ADDITION IS GOING TO ADD TO OUR STORMWATER PROBLEM DUE TO THE PARKING LOTS UP THE HILL. B STREET NORTH WHICH IS ON THE BOTTOM WHERE ALL THE WATER COMES. AND I SAVED THE COPY OF WHAT THE COUNTY HAD SAID, AND MY E-MAIL CONVERSATIONS WITH ONE OF THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, I BROUGHT AN EXTRA COPY FOR THE COMMISSION HERE IF THEY WOULD LIKE IT. AS FAR AS THE TRAFFIC PROBLEM ON BLANDING, YOU MENTIONEDED ABOUT GOING OUT OAK LANE, YOU KNOW. D.O.T. SAID THEY WOULDN'T PUT A TRAFFIC SIGNAL AT BEAR RUN BECAUSE IT WAS TOO CLOSE TO THE OAK LANE LIGHT. WE GOT HIT COMING OUT OF OAK LANE BY A SUBJECT THAT RAN THE RED LIGHT. AND HE ENDED UP ROLLING HIS TRUCK. SO THIS IS EXACERBATE THE PROBLEM WITH ALL THESE EXTRA RESIDENCES. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO DAY. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, SIR. NEXT IS MARY COOK. AND AFTER MARY COOK WILL BE [00:30:05] MCKENZIE SIMMS. >> MY NAME IS MARY COOK. I LIVE 3195 VINE STREET. I HAVE BEEN IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD FOR FIVE YEARS. I CHOSE THAT NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE IT'S A GREAT FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD. BEAR RUN WILL BE SEVERELY IMPACTED BY THIS REZONING. WE PUT TOGETHER A PETITION. AND MYSELF AND A HANDFUL OF NEIGHBORS, WHICH I WOULD LIKE TO THANK TREMENDOUSLY FOR HELPING, WENT AROUND AND GOT SIGNATURES. THIS MAP DISPLAYS AN X ON EVERY RESIDENT THAT OPPOSES THIS CHANGE. I WOULD LIKE TO READ THE STATEMENT THAT WE HAVE WITH THIS PETITION, AND THEN I WILL LEAVE THIS YOU. COMMUNITY REZONING OPPOSITION PETITION. THE RESIDENTS OF BEAR RUN COMMUNITY ARE OPPOSED TO CHANGING THE ZONING FROM AR TO PUD FOR THE PARCEL THAT LIES BETWEEN OAK LANE AND BEAR RUN BOULEVARD. HE FEEL THAT THE ZONING CHANGE IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THAT APPLICATION SHOULD BE DENIED FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS: THE REZONING WILL CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF OUR COMMUNITY, MOST LIKELY CAUSING SIGNIFICANT IMPACT OF TRAFFIC, SAFETY ISSUES, NOISE POLLUTION, AS WELL AS A REDUCTION IN PROPERTY VALUES. OUR COMMUNITY'S SANITATION STATION IS AT THE ENTRANCE OF BEAR RUN BOULEVARD WILL BE IMPACTED BY ADDITIONAL RUNOFF BY ALTERING THE COMPOSITION OF THIS LAND FOR MOSTLY DEEP RAVINES TO FLAT LAND. EMERGENCY ACCESS, BOTH COMING AND GOING, WILL BE EXTREMELY IMPEDED WITH THE ADDITIONAL POPULATION THAT COME WITH PUD ZONING. OUR LOCAL SCHOOLS WILL BE VEXED BEYOND WHAT IS CURRENTLY AT THE TIP OF CAPACITY. OAK LANE AND BEAR RUN BOULEVARD USED TO ACCESS THIS PARCEL WILL RAPIDLY DEGRADE FROM HEAVY EQUIPMENT AND LON-TERM USE OF TRAFFIC. KNIGHT BOX WITH BLANDING IS CURRENTLY CHALLENGING WITH THE CURRENT POPULATION AND NO ROOM FOR EXPANSION. BEAR RUN BOULEVARD AND BLANDING INTERSECTION WILL NOT STOP INCREASE TRAFFIC WHAT THEY CURRENTLY NEED TO FUNCTION. NO MISTAKE MADE WHEN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS ORIGINALLY ZONED. THERE WAS SUFFICIENT LAND ELSEWHERE FOR HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL USE. THE FACT THAT THE APPLICANT WANTS TO DEVELOP A SPECIFIC PIECE OF PROPERTY IS NOT ENOUGH TO JUSTIFY A ZONE CHANGE IN OUR COMMUNITY. AND THEN WE, THE UNDERSIGNED, RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT THE ZONING APPLICATION BE COMPLETELY DENIED. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, MA'AM. IF YOU WANT -- DODIE AND BETH, IF ONE OF YOU CAN GRAB THAT AND GIVE IT TO CHRISTINE. I THINK THE OTHER GENTLEMAN LEFT SOMETHING THERE TOO. >> YES, THE OTHER GENTLEMAN'S -- >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, MA'AM. NEXT I HAVE MCKENZIE SIMMS. MCKENZIE SIMMS, IS SHE HERE OR HE? WE WILL PUT THAT AT THE END. MAYBE THEY STEPPED OUT FOR A SECOND. SHEA CALHOUN? >> GOOD EVENING, BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND DEVELOPERS MY NAME IS SHEA CALHOUN AT BEAR RUN BOULEVARD. I LIVED THERE THE PAST 13 YEARS AND I HAVE SEEN THE SO-CALLED PROGRESS OF THE AREA AND WITNESS TO THE DEVASTATION OF THAT AREA. MY HOME HAS LOST SIX FEET OF PROPERTY WITH THE INSTALLATION OF THE DRAINAGE DITCH WHICH DOES NOT DO ITS JOB AS MY BACKYARD STILL FLOODS DURING RAINSTORMS. I HAVE BEEN A WITNESS OF THE ENERGY COST RISING AS THE ASPHALT HAS BEEN LAID AND TAKEN AWAY MUCH-NEEDED SHADE. WITH THE INCREASE OF THAT ASP ASPHALT, I HAVE SEEN A DECREASE OF GOPHER TURTLES WITH I IS THREATENED SPECIES. THESE TURTLES ARE JUST ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THIS BUILDING SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED. [00:35:01] IF WE CONTINUE TO DESTROY NATURE, THERE WILL BE NO NATURE LEFT FOR OUR CHILDREN'S CHILDREN TO DESTROY AS WELL AS THE DESTRUCTION OF ESSENTIAL FOOD CHAINS IN THE FLORIDA ECOSYSTEM. THE BURROWS FOR THESE THREATENED SPECIES ARE FROM. HE SHEETS CALLED COMMON CELLS. NOT ONLY WILL YOU BE REMOVING THE HABITAT OF THE TURTLES BUT THE HABITAT OF BURROWING OWLS, SNAKES AND OTHER SPECIES. WITH THE DECREASE COMES THE DEVASTATION OF FLOODING. TO MY KNOWLEDGE AND RESEARCH, THIS LAND WAS BULLDOZED 17 YEARS AGO AT A TEMPT TO BUILD. LED TO FLOODING, LOSS OF LAND MASS AND INCREASE IN INDIGENOUS SPECIES. I AM AWARE THAT YOU ARE NOT CONCERNED WITH THE TRAFFIC THIS HOUSE ALSO BRING, I FEEL IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED REGARDLESS OF YOUR CONCERN. THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES MULTIPLE DAYS I CANNOT GET TO THE HOME DUE TO THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT BLOCKS THE ENTRANCE OF BEAR RUN THAT I HAVE TO DRIVE TO OAK LANE THAT IS STILL BUSY. I LIVE TWO DOORS DOWN FROM THE TAG AGENCY AND HAZARDOUS TO DRIVE IN R IN THIS AREA. MULTIPLE ACCIDENTS BEING PUSHED OFF OF THE ROAD IN THE WATER-LOGGED AREAS AND PULLED BY TOW TRUCKS. I HAD TO HAVE MY CAR TOWED DUE TO THE FRONT AXLE BECAUSE OF THE IMMENSE AMOUNT OF WATER LOCATED BY THE TAG AGENCY. I AM AWARE YOU ARE NOT CONCERNED OF CRIME, AND -- NOT TO RESTATE WHAT WAS SAID EARLIER BUT I FEEL I NEED TO MENTION IT. I AM A SCHOOL TEACHER AND WITNESSED THE DEVASTATING RESULT OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH TEACHERS IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM. YOU MAY SAY IT DOES NOT CONCERN YOU? WELL, EVENTUALLY IT WILL HAVE TO CONCERN YOU WHEN THE INEVITABLE HAPPENS IN CLAY COUNTY CLAY COUNTY. PLEASE CONSIDER THE POINTS I BROUGHT FORWARD BEFORE MAKING A DECISION THAT WILL INEVITABLY DESTROY ACRES OF HOMES, THOUSANDS OF SPECIES AND RUINED THE COUNTY THAT YOU ALL COME TO LOVE. THANK YOU. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, MA'AM. DIANE FRAZIER FOLLOWED BY RICHARD FEATHER. >> HELLO, MY NAME IS DIANE FRAZIER, 1867 ON TORY YO COURT, MIDDLEBURGH, FLORIDA. I HAVE BEEN HERE FOR 30 YEARS. WE CHOSE THIS AREA IN CLAY COUNTY CLAY COUNTY BECAUSE OF THE PASTURES AND THE COWS AND THE HORSES AND THE QUIET, AND THE BEAUTIFUL WOODS. AND NOW WE ARE LIVING IN A BUNCH OF STRIP MALLS AND TRAFFIC SO BAD THAT WE LITERALLY ARE SO STRESSED WE CAN'T EVEN GET WHERE WE ARE GOING ANYMORE. AS -- IN GOING INTO DEPTH ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR CORNER, THE WALGREEN'S -- I AM VERY WELL AWARE OF A PERSON WHO WAS HIT AND KILLED THERE. SO IT IS NOT JUST CAR ACCIDENTS, IT IS ALSO PEOPLE PASSING -- PEOPLE JUST WALKING THAT ARE BEING HURT AND KILLED. THERE IS A WOODLAND RIGHT THERE THAT HAS BEEN THERE FOR SO MANY YEARS AND SO MANY INDIGENOUS WILDLIFE, ANIMALS THERE. WHEN YOU CUT DOWN ALL OF THESE TREES, RELEASE OXYGEN, WE HAVE EROSION OF PROPERTY. WHEN YOU BUILD ON WETLANDS, BECAUSE I LIVE ON WETLANDS. WE HAVE CONSTANT FLOODING IN OUR YARD. THE NEIGHBORS FIGHT ABOUT IT. EVERYBODY FIGHTS OF IT. EVERYBODY TRIES TO FIX IT. YOU CAN'T BUILD ON WETLANDS. EVENTUALLY IS IT STARTS SINKING. THAT PICK PROPERTY IS NEXT DOOR TO PUCH PARK THAT NOBODY HAS MENTIONED. DOGS THAT ARE GROOMED THERE AND BOARDED THERE THAT STAY OVERNIGHT AND OF COURSE THEY RUN AND PLAY AND THEY BARK. SO YOU ARE GOING TO BE PUTTING SOME APARTMENTS WITH 270 PEOPLE THERE OR MORE THAT WILL BE LISTENING TO THAT. I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WANTING TO MOVE THERE. THAT IS ALSO GOING TO BE ANOTHER PARKING ISSUE AND TRAFFIC BECAUSE OF -- BECAUSE OF COMING AND GOING INSIDE TO GO T TO PUCHI'S. AND AGAIN THE WOODS ARE RIGHT THERE IN BETWEEN THAT. WE HAVE SEEN OURSELVES THE GOPHER TURTLES, THE DEER, ALL THE DIFFERENT ANIMALS THAT ARE THERE. I JUST WANT TO ASK FOR TO YOU CONSIDER TO HAVE COMPASSION NOT JUST FOR THE ANIMALS AND FOR THE PEOPLE, BUT TO THINK ABOUT OUR FUTURE IN CLAY COUNTY CLAY COUNTY. DO WE JUST WANT TO BE KNOWN FOR URBAN SPRAWL? O HAVE THE BEAUTY OF OOUR COUNTY TO BE WELL KNOWN FOR OUT FUTURE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [00:40:01] >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, MA'AM. DIANE -- THAT WAS DIANE. RICHARD FEATHER. >> MY NAME IS RICHARD FEATHER, 1867 ONTARIO COURT, MIDDLEBURGH. I AM A NATIVE-AMERICAN SPIRITUAL ELDER. I WENT TO FLETCHER. USED TO TRAVEL TO CAMP BLANDING AT THE LAKE THERE. WHEN I TRAVEL THERE, THE TRAFFIC WITH AS SO LIGHT AND NICE. THE AIR WAS STILL CLEAN. NOW I KNOW IT IS YOUR JOB TO PLAN THINGS, BUT ALSO YOU NEED TO PLAN TO PRESERVE WHAT TREES WE HAVE LEFT. WHEN THE TREES GO, THE WILDLIFE GOES, THE AIR QUALITY GETS BAD, TAFFIC IS TERRIBLE. IT IS GETTING WORSE. MORE AND MORE HOMES ARE BEING BUILT EVERYWHERE. WHEREVER YOU LOOK, THERE ARE HOUSES BEING BUILT. CAR WASHES GOING UP LIKE THE DOZENS. IT'S UP TO YOU GUYS TO HELP PRESERVE THE LANDS, PLACES WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO, FAMILIES CAN GO AND SHOW NATURE TO THEIR CHILDREN. WITHOUT THE EDUCATION OF NATURE TO OUR CHILDREN, THEN YOU HAVE NO FUTURE OTHER THAN NOTHING BUT CONCRETE, ASPHALT, POLLUTION. SO, PLEASE, TAKE IT TO WHY YOU ARE HEART. PRESERVE EVERY LAND. EVERY SQUARE INCH OF LAND THAT HAS TREES ON IT. AS MUCH AS YOU CAN. THANK YOU. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, SIR. DID MCKENZIE SIMMS COME BACK IN THE ROOM? MCKENZIE HERE? ALL RIGHT. I DON'T HAVE ANY MORE CARDS ON THIS. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WANTED TO MAKE COMMENT HERE? YES, MA'AM. IF YOU WILL JUST COME UP TO THE PODIUM, PLEASE. >> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS ELLIE BREAKEN. 3174 B STREET EAST. LIKE THE GENTLEMAN THAT RETIRED FROM THE AIR FORCE, I AM RETIRED NAVY. I HAD A CHOICE WHERE THE NAVY MOVED ME FOR MY FINAL MOVE. IT WAS HERE. IT WAS BEAR RUN. I RETIRED AND CHECKED THE SCHOOLS ONLINE AND HIGH RATING, WE ARE GOING TO MOVE TO CLAY COUNTY. MOVING IN THE BEAR RUN SUBDIVISION. A REASON WHY WE WERE THERE. THE KIDS HAVE SINCE GRADUATED BUT STILL KEEPING THE HOUSE. ANYWAY, A COUPLE OF THINGS I WANT TO MENTION. I CHALLENGE ANY ONE OF YOU ON THE LAST DAY OF THE MONTH OR THE SECOND LAST DAY OF THE MONTH TO COME DOWN BEAR RUN BOULEVARD WHEN PEOPLE ARE GETTING THEIR TAGS. IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE THAT, THEN THESE ARE WORDS WE ARE SAYING IN THE AIR. YOU HAVE TO SEE IF YOURSELF. 80% OF LEARNING IS THROUGH YOUR VISION SO A LOT OF THESE WORDS, AUDIBLE STUFF. YOU HAVE TO SEE IT AND SEE IT FOR YOURSELF THE END OF THE MONTH IT IS A WEEKDAY. YOU CAN'T GET TO YOUR HOUSE. ONE LANE IN. I CAN'T BELIEVE THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT MAKING APPOINTMENTS YET, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO THE DRIVE-THRU, THEY ARE BACKED UP. SO YOU HAVE TO GO INTO THE OPPOSING LANE TO GET INTO THE SUBDIVISION. AND THERE ARE PEOPLE COMING OUT. I AM SURPRISED THERE HAS NOT BEEN A HEAD-ON COLLISION YET. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DRAWING LINES AND A LOT OF DEMARCATION FOR THE END OF THE TAG AGENCY AND THE STREET. IT HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET. BUT ANYWAY, IT MAY TAKE A COLLISION FOR THAT TO HAPPEN BUT WE WILL SEE. I WILL CHALLENGE TO YOU LOOK YOURSELVES. THESE WORDS WON'T MEAN ANYTHING UNTIL YOU EXPERIENCE IT YOURSELF. THE SECOND THING IS THIS. IF YOU GO A LITTLE FURTHER DOWN BLANDING. TONS OF SPACE FOR WHAT THEY WANT TO PROPOSE. TONS IN MIDDLEBURGH. I VOTE TO MOVE IT IN MIDDLEBURGH. A LIFETIME MEMBER OF THE VFW. I AM A RETIRED NAVY NURSE. I VOTE THAT IT MOVES DOWN BLANDING A LOT MORE SPACE INSTEAD OF SQUEEZING IT INTO A SMALL PARCEL THAT WILL BE A HEADACHE FOR MANY PEOPLE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, MA'AM. IS THERE -- MISS, MA'AM, CAN YOU -- IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT DIDN'T GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK? WE WANT TO HEAR FROM ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO SPEAK. YES, SIR. YOU WILL COME ON UP. YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE. [00:45:01] >> NAME IS MARTIN WILSON. I AM A RETIRED NAVY CHIEF. I LIVE IN THE LAST HOUSE BUILT IN BEAR RUN. 1228 CUTLASS ROAD. THIS HAPPENED BEFORE. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, BUT THE APARTMENTS WERE NEVER BUILT. AND EVEN THEN IT WAS A PROBLEM. I HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE '95. WE ASKED THEM HOW MANY UNITS THEN, AND WE ASK THEM HOW MANY PEOPLE PER UNIT. AND IF THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE FAMILIES, YOU CAN EASILY HAVE FOUR OR MORE DRIVERS PER FAMILY TRYING TO GET OUT OF THERE IN THE MORNING. BUT ALSO THESE PEOPLE CUTTING THROUGH BEAR RUN. NOT JUST TWO ROADS BUT FOUR ROADS. WASHINGTON AND THE ROAD GOING BY THE HIGH SCHOOL. FOUR ROADS THAT WILL BE AFFECTED. SO YOU NEED TO CONSIDER THAT TOO. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, SIR. ANY -- YOONG YOU HAVE A CARD. WOULD YOU HAND TAMPA TO MISS CARSON THERE, PLEASE. THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE? WE WILL CLOSE THIS PUBLIC HEARING AND IT IS GOING TO BE UP TO THIS BOARD. I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COME BACK UP AND RESPOND TO THOSE COMMENTS FOR US. >> STACEY RUIZ AGAIN. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO -- STACEY ROLIS. IS THAT BETTER. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. WHAT WE HAVE -- OUR TEAM IS KIND OF THREE -- WHAT I WILL CALL THREE MAJOR ISSUES IDENTIFIED: TRAFFIC, STORMWATER, AND SCHOOLS. AS MR. SHELTON SAID, THE PROJECT PLANNER. THIS SITE IS IDEA FOR THE PROJECT. THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN THE UC-10 AND UC-16 A DENSITY RANGE. THE REASON WE ARE HAVING TO GO TO UC-16 BECAUSE REQUESTING A DENSITY OF 12.9 ACRES. YOU SEE 10 ALLOWS A DENSITY OF 16 UNITS PER ACRE, BUT ONLY IF IT IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR AGE-RESTRICTED TYPE MULTIFAMILY UNIT. WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR THIS. THIS IS A MARKET RATE PROJECT. SO WE HAVE TO GO INTO THE HIGHER DENSITY CATEGORY EVEN THOUGH WE ARE NOT MAXING OUT THAT U THSHGZ-10 DESIGNATION. THE COMP PLAN HAS A VARIETY OF SERVICES, YOUR TYPICAL PUBLIC FACILITIES THAT YOU NEED TO BE WITHIN IN ORDER TO GET TO THE MAXIMUM DENSITY IN UC-16 WHICH WE ARE NOT REQUESTING. WE MEET ALL OF THOSE. THE POINT SYSTEM. A TOTAL OF 130 POINTS. W WE MEET THAT. IT IS IN APPLICATION. THIS IS IN THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, WHICH IS WHERE YOU WANT DEVELOPMENT TO GO BECAUSE OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE. I WILL LET OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER SPEAK. JUST FOR THE RECORD THOUGH, THESE WERE PASSED OUT AT OUR DRC MEETING BUT WE HAVE THE LETTER FROM FDOT SAYING THERE IS CAPACITY IN THIS LANDING AND THE CERTIFICATE FOR THE FULL 270 UNITS. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: MA'AM, BEFORE YOU STEP AWAY COMMISSIONER ANZALONE WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU SOMETHING. >>COMMISSIONERANZALONE: YOU MENTIONED A COUPLE OF TIMES THE MARKET RATE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO EVERYONE WHAT THAT IS, PLEASE? >> SURE. RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE ASKED THE CLIENT -- WE DO NOT HAVE AN ACTUAL RANGE BECAUSE THIS CLIENT REPUBLIC PROPERTIES GATHERS WHAT IS CALLED MARKET RATE CLOSE TO WHEN THEY ACTUALLY CONSTRUCT. SO IT IS FULL MARKET. SO ACTUAL MARKET RATE. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR ANYTHING ALONG THAT LINE. MARKET RATE. PROBABLY SOMETHING COMPARABLE TO OVER IN THE VILLAGES OF ARGYLE. THOSE TYPES OF UNITS. ANZALONE THANK YOU. >> DID YOU SAY YOU WENT TO IT THE D -- >> DRC. WE TOOK THE SITE PLAN TO DRC TO FLUSH OUT MORE COMMENTS. AS PART OF THAT, WE LEARNED OF THE SCHOOL CONCURRENCY FDOT AND A PUD FOR A SECONDARY EMERGENCY ACCESS AND THAT CAME OUT OF DRC. >> I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS AN ACTIVE CAC. >> I SAID THAT, APOLOGIZE. >> DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH THE RESIDENTS AT ALL? ANY PUBLIC MEET WITH THE RESIDENTS? >> WE FOUND RECENTLY ABOUT THE OPPOSITION. WE ARE HAPPY AND WOULD LIKE TO MEET WITH THE RESIDENTS AND DO A [00:50:05] COMMUNITY MEETING IF THAT IS THE DESIRE. YOU KNOW, WE -- WE ARE ABLE TO DO THAT. I DON'T WANT TO FORCE YOU GUYS TO MAKE A VOTE TONIGHT IF YOU ARE NOT THERE. WE WOULD APPRECIATE THAT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO HAVE A COMMUNITY MEETING AND SIT DOWN WITH THE RESIDENTS AND TALK THROUGH THI THINGS. >> JUST REAL QUICK, TO ANYONE IN THE ROOM OR ANYONE PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS, THERE IS A PROCESS KNOWN AS A CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE. THERE IS ONE NOW -- THERE HAS BEEN ONE FOR DECADES IN FLEMING ISLAND AND THE RESULT HOW FLEMING LIELAND IS DEVELOPED TIED DIRECTLY TO THE CAC. AND ONE FORMED IN THE LA LAKE ASBURY. AND APPLICANTS HAVE TO GO TO THE CAC BEFORE HERE. ANYONE HERE WHO IS CONCERNED OF ZONING IN YOUR COMMUNITY SHOULD CONSIDER FORMING A CAC. THE COUNTY WILL BE HAPPY TO HELP YOU WITH THAT PROCESS. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: BILL, I BELIEVE, A NEW ONE IN CLAY HILL NOW. >> THAT IS RIGHT. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE BUT A OPPORTUNITY -- A FORMAL PROCESS WHERE THE APPLICANT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE CAC BEFORE THEY GET HERE. KEEP THAT IN YOUR MIND BEFORE MOVE FORWARD. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: WE WILL HEAR FROM THE OTHER GENTL GENTLEMAN. >> THEY MAY HAVE A HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION. I AM NOT SURE OF THAT. >> UP AND DOWN A BIT. THEY KEEP CHANGING.THIS AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR TIME FOR REBUTTAL. I APPRECIATE ANYONE'S COMMENTS TONIGHT. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE A COMMUNITY EFFORT WHENEVER WE ARE ASKING FOR A PROJECT THAT IS GOING TO JOIN THE COMMUNITY. A COUPLE OF THINGS, WE DO HAVE TO PAY INTO THE COUNTY'S MOBILITY FEE. WE WILL BE PAYING INTO THAT FULLY, WHATEVER THAT NUMBER IS. THOSE WILL GO FORWARD WHATEVER THE COUNTY DECIDES, IMPROVEMENTS IN THAT AREA. THIS IS DEFINITELY 270 UNITS, NOT 300. A PREVIOUS PLAN SHOWED 320 UNITS HERE 15 YEARS AGO. >> WHAT WAS THE FINAL NUMBER? >> 270. SO WE ARE NOT TRYING TO GET 16 UNITS OF ACRE AS STACEY MENTIONED AND I MENTIONED. WE ARE AT 270, NOT 320, NOT 300. ALSO WE HAVE OUR CIVIL ENGINEER HERE TONIGHT. AND HE CAN SPEAK TO ANY KIND OF FLOODING CONCERNS IF YOU GUYS WISH. IT IS UP TO YOU. WE ALSO HAVE OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER WHO CAN SPEAK TO THAT ALSO. REAL QUICKLY ABOUT PROPERTY VALUES. THERE WAS A STUDY IN 2005, A STUDY THAT TALKED OF MYTHS OF LOWERING PROPERTY VALUES. I AM NOT A PROPERTY APPRAISER AND NEITHER IS ANYONE ELSE HERE. THE ASSERTION THAT MULTIFAMILY NEXT TO SINGLE-FAMILY LOWERS PROPERTY VALUE HAS NEVER OPINION PROVEN. A STUDY THAT SAYS QUITE DIFFERENTLY, BECAUSE I KNOW WHEN I LIVED HERE, I LOOKED FOR AN APARTMENT AND DONE LIVING IN AN APARTMENT, I HAD A REAL INCOME OUT OF COLLEGE, I LOOKED FOR A HOUSE NEARBY. A LOT OF TIMES IT ACTUALLY INCREASES BUT I CAN'T PUT THAT ON RECORD. I AM NOT A PROPERTY APPRAISER. WE HAD A WETLAND BIOLOGIST ON THE SITE AND HE DID NOT NOTICE ANY WETLAND SPECIES. WE WILL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THAT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING. WE DO NOT USE BEAR RUN. WE DO NOT CONNECT TO IT OR HAVE ACCESS TO BEAR RUN. WE ARE ONLY USING OAK LANE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: COMMISSIONER BOURRE HAS A QUESTION. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: MR. SHELTON, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FULL BE PATIENT FROM ME. ONE, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE CIVIL ENGINEER ABOUT STORMWATER. PUT THAT ON THE RADAR. YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION ABOUT ACCESS TO PROPERTY. THAT HOPEFULLY HANDLES SOME OF THE CONCERN RAISED HERE BY THE CITIZENS REGARDING TRAFFIC COMING INTO THEIR MAIN EGRESS AND ACCESS POINT. GOPHER TORTOISES. NOW AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN OR WILL BE A GOPHER TORTOISE SURVEY, IF ANY FOUND THEY WILL BE LOCATED TO YOUR EXPENSE TO A RESERVE OR PRESERVE OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE. IS THAT THE CASE? >> YES, SIR. IF THEY ARE FOUND WHEN PERMITTING OUR WETLANDS, THEY WILL REQUIRE THAT AND WE WILL HAVE TO DO THAT AT OUR EXPENSE, THAT'S CORRECT. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: HAS THERE BEEN A PRELIMINARY STUDY DONE YET? >> NOT YET, SIR. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: AGAIN, SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS ARE [00:55:01] OUTSIDE OF OUR PURVIEW. THIS IS PLANNING -- OR ZONING. SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS -- THE BCC WILL BE ASKING THESE QUESTIONS. FOR THE EDUCATION OF THE GROUP, I WANT TO ASK THESE. WHAT FLOOD ZONE IS THIS IN. THERE WAS A QUESTION OF FLOOD ZONE. I CAN IS THE CIVIL WHEN HE OR SHE COMES UP. GIVE US INFORMATION OF THE SETBACK OF 135 FEET? >> YES, I MENTIONED THE PRIOR PLAN ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO. AND THEY HAD ALL THE BUILDINGS UP CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE. IN FACT IT SHOWED 40 FEET FROM THE WESTERN PROPERTY LINE. WE PURPOSELY SET THE BUILDING BACK AS FAR BACK AS WE COULD WITHOUT INTRUDING MORE UPON THE PETLANDS. AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE SITE PLAN, PUSHED IT BACK TO 135 FEET SETBACK. WE ARE BOUND BY THAT. IF THE PD IS APPROVED, WE CAN'T MOVE IT ANY CLOSER. THE 20-FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER. TREES, AND A BERM. ALREADY A 40-FOOT DRAINAGE EASEMENT. AND PARKING BEGINS AFTER 55 FEET. BY THE DESIGN, THERE WAS ATTENTION TO MOVE IT CLOSER TO THE CENTER AND AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY LINES. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: OKAY. AND SO THAT 135-FOOT BUFFER WILL BE COMPRISED OF WHAT? NATURAL LANDSCAPING, BERMING, AND ADDITIONAL PLANTING? >> ADDITIONAL PLANTING TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS IN THE CODE. I BELIEVE IT IS 90% OR 85%. ADDITIONAL TREES, ADDITIONAL SHRUBS, FENCE TO MEET THE STANDARDS THAT THE CODE SETS FORTH FOR UNCOMPLEMENTARY LAND USES LIKE MV NEXT TO SINGLE-FAMILY. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: DOES THAT INCLUDE THE PARKING 125 FEET? >> YES, SIR. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING. THE HIGHEST POINT. >> WE ARE LIMITED TO THREE STORY. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: THREE STORY, OKAY. >> 35 FEET. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: 35 FEET. AGAIN, TRAFFIC IS NOT SOMETHING -- IT IS NOT PART OF OUR PURVIEW. SOMETHING THE BCC WILL REVIEW BUT BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF CITIZENS HERE, IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS AND GIVE A SUMMARY OF THE FINDS. THAT CONCLUDES MY QUESTIONS, MR. CHAIRMAN. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU. >> MAY I MAKE A COMMENT? >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: IF YOU THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE. >> YES, ONE OF THE GENTLEMAN CAME UP AND MENTIONED THAT WE WERE ELECTED, THE OFFICIALS THAT ARE HERE ARE ELECTED. WE ARE NOT ELECTED. WE ARE APPOINTED BY THE COUNTY COMMISSIONER. WE ARE VETTING COMMITTEE. WE ARE NOT THE ONES TO MAKE THE FINAL DECISIONS, JUST THAT YOU ALL KNOW IT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: YES, SIR, NAME AND ADDRESS. >> DOUG STILES, JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA. I AM THE DRAINAGE GUY AND I LOVE TO TALK ABOUT STORMWATER. I WILL TRY TO TEMPER MY ENTHUSIASM WITH THAT AND SPEAK MORE IN GENERAL AND ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE. TO TALK ABOUT THE FLOOD PLAIN, THE -- IT IS ACTUALLY A FLOOD ZONE. AND IT IS REALLY -- IS IT POSSIBLE TO ZOOM IN ON THAT? IF NOT, THAT'S OKAY. OKAY, THANKS. SO, LET'S SEE. WE HAVE ACTUALLY -- IS IT? NOT WORKING. A CONCEPTUAL PLAN AS IT RELATES TO THE PONDS. WE HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT OF ENGINEER SINCE THAT WAS SUBMITTED. THAT POND ON THE BOTTOM CORNER, WE ACTUALLY PULLED IT AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY LINE A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THAT IS THAT ZONE -- ZONE A FLOOD ZONE IS ALONG THAT PERIMETER. THERE IS A DITCH THERE. WE DON'T WANT TO IMPACT THAT BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE WATER GOES. WE PULL IT AWAY A SMALL PORTION OF THE 100-YEAR FLOOD ZONE. THE REST OF THE SITE IS ZONEDX. WELL UP ABOVE. THE GENERAL DRAINAGE PATTERN GOES EAST TO THE WEST TO OAK LANE WHICH IS BEAR RUN. A NORTH THIRD OF THIS SITE DRAINS TO THE EASEMENT OF BEAR RUN. THE EASEMENT THAT COLLECTS THE WATER. THE SOUTHERN TWO-THIRDS, TWO DIFFERENCE THAT -- IF ANYBODY WALKED THE PROPERTY THEY WILL KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. THERE IS A DITCH THAT RUNS JUST NORTH OF THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND IT STOPS AT BEAR RUN. I WAS LOOKING AT THIS AND GOT OUR TOPOGRAPHIC SURVEY. I WAS LIKE WHERE DOES THE WATER GO AFTER THAT. AND THERE IS NO PIPE. I ASKED THE SURVEYOR. CAN YOU GO BACK OUT THERE. THERE MASS TO BE A PIPE THERE AT SOME POINT IN TIME. THEY STARTED DIGGING AND A 18-INCH PIPE THAT IS COMPLETELY FULL OF DIRT. 18-INCH THAT IS SILTED IN, [01:00:01] COVERED OVER, NOT DOING ANYBODY GOOD. WHEN I WAS DOING MY DRAINAGE MODEL, NO WONDER A LOT OF WATER THAT GOES TO THE ROAD BECAUSE NO WAY TO GET OUT NOW. WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO IS WE ARE GOING TO TAKE THE WATER GOING IN THE DRAINAGE EASEMENT, THE UPPER THIRD. TAKE IT AWAY FROM THAT AND WILL HELP THAT SITUATION. WE WILL BUILD TWO LARGE PONDS ON THE SITE. PRESERVE THE WETLANDS. EACH ONE OF THOSE ACTS AT A STORAGE SYSTEM WHEN WATER FROM THE ROOF AND THE PARKING LOT, IT ALWAYS GOES INTO THESE PONDS AND HAS TO BE HELD THERE FOR A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME. PART OF THAT IS FOR WATER QUALITY. PART OF THAT IS SO WE ARE NORTHWEST OVERLOADING THE SYSTEM. ONCE IT GETS FUNNELED DOWN TO THAT DITCH, WE ARE WORKING WITH THE COUNTY TO CLEAN IT OUT. IT WILL BE INSPECTED. IF THERE IS A PROBLEM, AND IT COLLAPSED, IT WILL BE REPLACED. LAST THING WE WANT WATER ON THE ROAD. THAT PARTICULAR AREA I CAN'T TELL YOU DE-F DEFINITIVELY. >> IT GOES UNDER THE ROAD. >> GOES PAST THE PUMP STATION AND INTO THE CREEK. >> THERE IS NO WATER FLOWING THROUGH IT RIGHT NOW. >> BECAUSE IT CAN'T GET TO IT. >> THE OTHER SIDE OF BEAR RUN, THE TO OPPOSITE SIDE, ALL WETLANDS OVER THERE. >> RIGHT. THAT IS THE CREEK. WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO BEFORE BEAR RUN WAS EVER DEVELOPED, THE WATER FLOWED THROUGH AND WASN'T IMPEDED. I AM SURE THEY BUILT THE ROAD PROPERLY WHEN THEY DID AND ALLOWED THE WATER TO CONTINUE. OVERTIME, PROBABLY NEGLECTED. SOMEBODY MENTIONED THAT SITE WAS CLEARED. THAT PERSON -- DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THEY DID A GOOD JOB OF CONTAINING EROSION. PROBABLY FILLED THE PIPE UP. ONE OTHER THING AROUND THE PERIMETER WE ARE STEPPING THIS PROJECT DOWN AND NOT GOING TO COME IN THERE AND TABLE TOP IT LIKE IF YOU WERE BUILDING A BIG MALL. WE WILL HAVE BUILDINGS THAT COME DOWN AS YOU GO. I MEAN, WE DON'T WANT TO CREATE A BIG DISTURBANCE AND DON'T WANT TO SPEND THE MONEY OF MOVING MILLIONS OF CUBIC YARDS OF MATERIALS AND FOLLOW THE NATURAL PATTERN. TYING INTO THE PARAMETER WITH GRADUAL -- DON'T HAVE STEEP SLOPES. WON'T HAVE ANY RETAINING WALLS IN THE BACK YARD. EVERYTHING BLENDS INTO THE SITE, FOLLOWS THE TERRAIN AND GOES TO THE LAKE THAT WILL BE THERE WITH THE NATURAL WETLANDS AND CONTINUES UNDERNEATH BEAR RUN. I THINK I COVERED EVERYTHING THAT I HEARD. >> MR. STILES, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT DESCRIPTION. JUST TO BE CLEAR THE -- THE DEVELOPER WILL PARTICIPATE WITH THE COUNTY IN CLEANING OUT THAT 18-INCH PIPE SILTED OTHER. >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> AS PART OF THIS PROJECT? >> YES. >> I ALSO UNDERSTOOD YOU TO SAYS THERE NO EXISTING IMPACT TO THE EXISTING WETLANDS. STAY IN THE X ZONE FOR THE CONSTRUCTION. >> THE FLOOD PLAIN. THE FLOOD ZONE. AROUND THE PERIMETER OF THE WETLANDS WE ARE IMPACTING THAT, BUT WHAT IS MAPPED AS A FLOOD ZONE FROM FEMA, WE ARE STAYING AWAY WITH THAT. THAT IS A DITCH. >> I THINK, TOO, IN -- MIKE, THERE WAS -- SOME OF THE WETLAND IS BEING MITIGATED BUT YOU ARE KEEP BEING TWO -- 2.77 ACRES. >> WE HAVE GOTTEN CLOSE TO THE 3 WITH IT FINE TUNING. >> MORE THAN THAT NOW BUT WILL MITIGATE THE PART. >> WE WILL PROVIDE A BUFFE ALL THE WAY AROUND WITH NATIVE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: ANYTHING? >> THAT WAS A GOOD EXPLANATION. I WANT TO -- GENERALLY CAN YOU EXPLAIN -- BECAUSE THIS IS THE FIRST TIME SOME OF THESE FOLKS HAVE BEEN HERE. CAN A DEVELOPMENT SHED WATER OUTSIDE OF ITS DEVELOPMENT UNDER NORMAL SITUATION? >> YOU CAN -- WHAT REQUIRED TO DO IS MATCH THE PREDEVELOPMENT CONDITION. THIS GOES BACK CENTURIES, COMMON LAW. IF MY PROPERTY DRAINS INTO YOUR PROPERTY. I CAN'T BLOCK THAT FLOW. I CAN CONTINUE -- I CAN'T PUT MORE WATER ON TO IT, SEND THE WATER FASTER AND CHANGE THE LOCATION WHERE IT COMES ON TO YOUR PROPERTY. SAME THING FROM ABOVE. SOME COUNTY PROPERTIES ABOVE US LIKE PUCHI, DRAIN ON TO OUR SITE. WE HAVE TO TAKE THEIR WATER AND DIRECT IT AROUND SO NOT CAUSING PROBLEMS WITH THEM. OPINION IS. >> ONE COUNTY BEST EXPLANATIONS I HAVE HEARD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> ONE QUESTION TOO. DO YOU THINK THAT THE DRAINAGE PLAN WILL IMPROVE SOME OF THE CONDITIONS IN BEAR RUN. SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE SAYING IT WON'T MAKE IT WORSE. BUT WILL IT HELP THEM? >> DEFINITELY WON'T MAKE IT WORSE. WE NEED A PERMIT FROM ST. JOHNS WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT AND DEP IN THE COUNTY. I THINK THAT PARTICULAR AREA WHERE WE ARE DISCHARGE ALSO MAKE IT BETTER. [01:05:02] I NOTICE THAT ONE -- SOMEBODY THAT SPOKE WAS ON B STREET. AND B STREET IS A GOOD WAYS TO THE NORTH OF US, WHILE I WOULD LOVE TO SAY THAT WHAT WE ARE DOING WILL HELP THEM, WE ARE TOO FAR AWAY. OUR WATER DOESN'T MIX WITH THEIR WATER. I THINK THEIR PROBLEM WAS OCCURRING IN OTHER AREAS THAT ARE NORTH OF OUR SITE THAT WERE FLOWING THAT WAY. SO WITHOUT US GOING BEYOND THE BOUNDARIES OF OUR SITE, NOT SOMETHING WE CAN TO DO IMPROVE THAT SITUATION. DOWN WHERE WE ARE, WE WILL DEFINITELY MAKE IT BETTER. >> THANK YOU. >> TRAFFIC. WE ARE GOING TO ASK ABOUT THE TRAF TRAFFIC. >> HELLO, JACK HOLSBERG WITH KIMLEY-HORN. I AM A PROFESSIONAL TRAFFIC ENGINEERING GRAND BAY PARKWAY IN JACKSONVILLE. WE CALCULATED THE PROJECT'S ANTICIPATED TRIP GENERATION AS REQUIRED FOR THE REZONING AND COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT APPLICATIONS AND SUBMITTED THOSE WITH OUR APPLICATIONS. AND ACTIONS WERE DEEMED COMPLETE BY THE COUNTY. WE HAVE A LETTER FROM F. D.O.T. STATING THE EXISTING CAPACITY ON BLANDING BOULEVARD AND AS WELL AS THE EXISTING PEAK HOUR COUNT AND WHAT OUR PROJECT IS ANTICIPATED TO ADD TO THAT. BASICALLY IN THE LETTER IT SAYS THIS SEGMENT OF BLANDING BOULEVARD IS EXPECTED TO HAVE SUFFICIENT CAPACITY TO ACCOMMODATE THE TRIPS FROM THIS DEVELOPMENT. THAT IS DIRECTLY FROM FDOT. THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE ARE WRITING. ANOTHER THING WORTH MENTIONING IS THE INTERCONNECTIVITY TO THE NORTH OF BLANDING BOULEVARD. I THINK SOMEBODY MENTIONED, YOU KNOW -- YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GET FROM -- SO WE ONLY HAVE THE ONE DRIVEWAY ON OAK LANE AND YOU EXPECT THE VAST MAJORITY TO USE OAK LEAN AND NOT BEAR RUN. YOU CAN GET TO BEAR RUN TO THE NORTH WITHOUT PASSING THROUGH THE SIGNAL. IF BEAR RUN IS BACKED UP, I DON'T SEE ANYBODY USING BEAR RUN. THEY WILL ONLY USE THAT IN TIMES WHERE BEAR RUN IS NOT BACKED UP. WHY WOULD YOU USE THAT IF IT IS BLOCKED WHEN YOU CAN USE THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL AT OAK LANE INSTEAD. YOU KNOW, I THINK THE OTHER INTERCONNECTIVITY. THERE IS MORE INTERCONNECTIVITY TO THE EAST WHERE YOU CAN GET EXISTING TRAFFIC SIGNALS WITHOUT GETTING ON TO BLANDING BOULEVARD. IF OAK LANE GETS BACKED UP, OTHER OPPORTUNITIES TO USE A TRAFFIC SIGNAL TO EXIT AND TURN LEFT ON TO BLANDING BOULEVARD. THE FINAL THING I WANTED TO MENTION IS THE PROJECT WILL BE -- WILL BE REQUIRED TO PAY MOBILITY FEE THAT COUNTY CALCULATES BASED ON THE PROJECT'S ANTICIPATED TRIP GENERATION AN -- THE POINT OF THOSE FEES IS FOR THE COUNTY TO USE THEM TO MAKE TRANSPORTATION CAPACITY AND SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS AND MAYBE WORKING WITH, YO KNOW -- COULD POSSIBLY WORK WITH DOT FOR AN INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENT AT BLANDING AND OAK LANE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: ANY QUESTIONS. >> THE MOST QUESTION -- M MR. HOLSBERG, BY THE WAY, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. IT LOOKS LIKE THE ONLY MEANS OF ACCESS AND EGRESS COMES OUT OF TO OAK LANE. I AM CURIOUS HOW BEAR RUN COULD BE -- HOW YOU CAN SOMEHOW WORK YOUR WAY OVER TO BEAR RUN. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. >> IF YOU GO NORTH OF THE SITE, THERE ARE ROADS TO CONNECT IT OUT OF THE SITE ON TO OAK LANE AND GO OUT OF THE DEVELOPMENT AND GO AROUND. >> YOU WOULDN'T EXPECT THAT OUR TRAFFIC WOULD DO THAT. >> I UNDERSTAND. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE NO ACCESS FROM YOUR DEVELOPMENT -- EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE ME. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS NO ACCESS FROM THE DEVELOPMENT ON TO BEAR RUN. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: WE ALREADY CLOSED THE PUBLIC HEAR HEARING. >> THE OUTCOME OF THIS MEET ALSO NOT BE SATISFACTORY. >> WHAT I WANT TO KNOW, HAVE YOU BEEN OUT THERE AT RUSH HOUR AND WHERE THE TRAFFIC BACKS UP ON OAK LANE. DOES IT BACK UP BEYOND WHERE YOUR ENTRANCE IS GOING TO BE? >> SO I WENT AND OBSERVED -- LET ME PULL UP THE EXACT DATES SO I AM NOT MISSPEAKING. I WENT THERE SEPTEMBER 2 FROM 4 [01:10:01] THE TRAFFIC ON OAK DID NOT BACK UP TO OUR PROPOSED DRIVEWAY. I THINK PEOPLE MENTIONED A TEN-CAR QUEUE OAK LANE. 10 TO 15 IS THE MAXIMUM THAT WE SAW. WE NOTICED WHETHER THE QUEUES CLEARED ON GREEN EVERY SINGLE CYCLE. THE QUEUE DID TURN ON GREEN. THE ONE ON KNIGHT BOX. THAT DOES NOT CLEAR. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: OKAY. ANYONE ELSE HAVE QUESTIONS. >> I HAVE A QUESTION! >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. I EXPLAINED THAT AT THE BEGINNING. >> SPILL BE LEAVING YOUR MEETING AS TO NOT DISTRACT THIS SHAM THAT YOU ARE CONDUCTING. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: PLEASE DO. PLEASE DO OR I WILL HAVE YOU ESCORTED OUT. >> I AM SURE YOU WILL. THANK YOU. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU. >> YOU WILL HEAR FROM ME. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. YOU DIDN'T GIVE US A CHANCE -- >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: SIR, IT IS CLOSED. ANYONE ELSE HAVE QUESTION FOR TRAFFIC? ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, IF THE APPLICANT IS DONE RESPONDING, I WILL BRING IT BACK TO THIS BOARD FOR A MOTION OR DISCUSSION. MR. BOURRE. YOU SEEM TO HAVE -- >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: I HAVE A LOT OF NOTES ON THIS. I GUESS FIRST AND FOREMOST, THIS, ACCORDING TO STAFF REPORT, DOES NOT CREATE URBAN SPRAWL, IN FACT IT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THAT. IT MEETS THE CRITERIA OF A SUITABLE INFILL PROJECT. WATER AND SEWER, I AM ASSUMING AVAILABLE. DIRECT ACCESS ON TO OAK LAYNE WHICH IS INTERSECTION TO BLANDING AND ACCESS IS NOT A PRIVY FOR OUR BODY BUT CERTAINLY SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. IT CONFORMS FOR PLANNING -- FOR ZONING, WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING RIGHT NOW. IT CONFORMS FOR ZONING PURPOSES. I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT IS -- THAT BECAUSE OF THAT, I HAVE TO REMIND EVERYBODY THAT WE HAVE PROPERTY OWNER RIGHTS IN THE COUNTRY. AND BECAUSE THIS DOES CONFORM, IN MY OPINION, AND THE OWNER OWNS THE PROPERTY AND HE HAS A PLAN WELL ESTABLISHED HOW TO DEVELOP THAT PROPERTY, THE PROPERTY MEETS THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR THIS USE. AND FOR THAT REASON, I AM GOING TO SUPPORT THIS. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: ANYONE ELSE WANT TO COMMENT? MR. GARRISON. >>COMMISSIONER GARRISON: I WANT TO MAKE A COUPLE OF QUICK COMMENTS. I WANT TO READ FROM THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT WHEN IT RELATES TO REZONING APPLICATIONS. A LANDOWNER -- SOMEBODY OWN THIS LAND AND THEY HAVE RIGHTS. A LANDOWNER SEEKING TO REZONE PROPERTY HAS THE BURDEN OF PROVING THAT THE PROPOSAL IS CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND COMPLIES WITH ALL PROCEDURAL REQUIREMENTS OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE WHICH HAS HAPPENED. AT THIS POINT, THE BURDEN SHIFTS TO THE GOVERNMENT APPEAR BOARD. AS IT IS RECOMMENDED WE ARE A RECOMMENDING BODY. THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WILL MAKE A DECISION. THE BURDEN ON THE BOARD TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THE EXISTING ZONING CLASSIFICATION WITH THE RESPECT OF THE PROPERTY ACCOMPLISHES A LEGITIMATE PUBLIC PURPOSE. SO THAT IS OUR CRITERIA. RELIGION, ETHNICITY OR ANY OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN MENTIONED ARE NOT -- THEY ARE NOT PART OF HOW WE DECIDE THIS STUFF. IT IS -- MENTIONED EARLIER, THIS IS NOT URBAN SPRAWL. THIS IS THE INFILL PROJECT. I RECALL WHEN BEAR RUN WAS BUILT BACK IN THE MID-'80S. LATE '80S. I AM SURE PEOPLE WERE VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED TO THAT LAND BEING DEVELOPMENT. IN 1985, THE POPULATION OF CLAY COUNTY WAS 70,000 PEOPLE. RIGHT NOW IT IS 220,000 PEOPLE. BY 2040, IT IS ESTIMATE THAT IT WILL BE 275,000 PEOPLE. WE LIVE IN A COUNTY, A REGION AND A STATE THAT IS GROWING. THAT IS A FACT. THOSE PEOPLE HAVE A NEED FOR A HOUSE. AND THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO A HOME. AND SO AS MUCH AS IT MAY IRRITATE US THAT PEOPLE COME DOWN AND CUT DOWN TREES AND ALL THAT STUFF, LEGAL PROCESSES IN PLACE THAT ALLOW FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF PROPERTY. IF YOU OWN A PIECE OF PROPERTY, YOUR -- THESE ZONING LAWS GIVE YOU CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS. THE PERSON WHO OWN THIS PROPERY HAVE THOSE SAME RIGHTS, SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO KEEP THAT IN MIND. EVERY EFFORT WILL BE MADE TO DEAL WITH TRAFFIC, TO DEAL WITH DRAINAGE, BUT JUST AS WE JUST HEARD, AN 18-INCH PIPE, EXISTING PIPE FULL FOR WHO KNOWS HOW LONG IT WAS FULL LEADING TO THIS PROBLEM. THIS APARTMENT COMPLEX IS NOT ALLOWED AS WAS MENTIONED EARLIER TO INCREASE DRAINAGE ANYWHERE. AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO REITERATE, I AM IN THE DEVELOPMENT BUSINESS. I HAVE ZERO INTEREST IN THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY. I LIVED IN CLAY COUNTY JUST AS [01:15:04] LONG AS EVERYBODY ELSE SINCE 1985. I LIVE IN A RURAL AREA. A IT IS GOING TO CHANGE. WHETHER I LIKE IT OR NOT. A FACT OF LIFE. KIND OF WELCOME TO CLAY COUNTY. AND THESE -- THE HOUSING MARKET IS PACKED. RENTS ARE THROUGH THE ROOF. THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF HOUSING SUPPLY. AND FOR ALL OF THOSE VARIOUS REASONS AND THE FACT THAT THIS ORGANIZATION HAS COMPLIED WITH EVERY REGULATION. THE STAFF HAS REVIEWED IT THOROUGHLY AND THEY RECOMMEND APPROVAL. I, TOO, WILL BE FOR MOVING THIS TOWARD TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: ANYBODY ELSE? ANYBODY WANT TO COMMENT? >> I HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS, IF I MAY, MR. CHAIRMAN. IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE APPLICANT, IF HE RETAINS THE CURRENT ZONING, HE CAN GO IN THERE AND BUILD MANY MORE UNITS THAN WHAT HE WANTS TO BUILD RIGHT NOW. AS WELL AS STILL BE WITHIN THE RESTRICTIONS OF CURRENT GUIDELINES IN THE DEVELOPMENTAL CODE AS FAR AS SETBACKS, BUFFERS AND THAT SORT OF THING. TO ME, THIS IS SIMILAR TO A WIN-WIN. THEY ARE GOING TO INCREASE THEIR BUFFERRING. REDUCE THE NUMBER OF UNITS. IT WILL NOT BE LOW INCOME HOUSING WHICH IS SOMETHING WE DEARLY NEED. SO THEY ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE TO BE WORRIED ABOUT THAT. THE OTHER THING, TOO, IS WILL BEAR RUN HAVE INCREASED TRAFFIC? MOST LIKELY AT FIRST BECAUSE PEOPLE -- IF THERE IS A LOGJAM AT OAK LANE, BECAUSE WHEN THIS DEVELOPMENT COMES ON LINE, THERE COULD BE A PROBLEM THERE BECAUSE THAT LIGHT FAVORS BLANDING BOULEVARD WITH NIGHT BOX AND OAK LANE. MAYBE THE COUNTY COMMISSIONER CAN PUT A LITTLE PRESSURE TO SPEED UP THE DEVELOPMENT TO HANDLE OAK LANE TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM COMING FROM THE DEVELOPMENT AND BEAT THE SYSTEM COMING OUT ON BEAR RUN. THEY WON'T ACCOMPLISH MUCH BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT THERE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: IS THAT IS IT? YOU HAVE SOMETHING, PILL? >> I DO. I AGREE THAT GIVEN -- IF IT IS LEFT THE WAY IT IS, IT COULD BE DEVELOPED MORE THAN WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOUR COMMENT, BILL, ABOUT THE CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND THE WILLINGNESS OF THE APPLICANT TO MEET WITH THE GROUP MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. FOR THE GROUP TO REALIZE THAT IF IT SHALL IF IT GOES FORWARD, YOU CAN DEVELOP IT A LOT LESS THAN WHAT COULD BE THERE. I THINK IT IS EVERYONE'S BEST INTEREST REALIZING THAT SINCE THEY -- THEY DO PLAN TO DEVELOP IT AND THEY CAN, THAT YOU SIT DOWN AND TALK AS A GROUP AND FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY TO COME TO SOME TYPE OF AGREEMENT AND HELP MITIGATE SOME OF THE CONCERNS OFF THIS. BARRING THAT, THE ONLY APPLICANT -- THE ONLY THING THE APPLICANT CAN DO, IF THEY CHOOSE, IS SELL THE PROPERTY AND SOMEONE ELSE WILL HAVE TO REZONE IT. AND IF YOU WANTED TO TOO I TO BACK TO A COMMERCIAL -- OR RESIDENTIAL TYPE STATUS IF THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE THINKING. GOOD LUCK. I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT. SO MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE THAT YOU ALL SIT DOWN AND TALK -- I MYSELF WILL LIKE TO DEFER ON THIS UNTIL THAT HAPPENS AND YOU COME BACK AND TALK TO US AGAIN. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: ANY COMMENT? ARE YOU OKAY? >> DO WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY FOR DO THAT. RECOMMENDATION -- I THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO SIT DOWN AND TALK THINGS OUT INSTEAD OF SOMEONE ELSE MAKING THE DECISION FOR YOU WHICH IS AN OPTION. THEN, AGAIN, TIMELINES SPECIFIED FOR DOING THINGS. BUT I THINK THAT WILL BE IDEA. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: DODIE, A COUPLE OF COMMISSIONERS SAID THEY COULD BUILD THAT MANY UNITS UNDER THE CURRENT ZONING. BUT ISN'T THE:CURRENT ZONING ON THIS US TRYING TO FIND -- >>DODIE SELIG: YOU SEE TED. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THAT IS THE LAND USE. WHAT IS THE ZONING? >>DODIE SELIG: SORRY, AR. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: IT'S AR. WATER AND SEWER, AND SEE TEN, THE BEST THEY COULD DO WOULD BE 40 TO 50 UNITS. >>DODIE SELIG: ALSO LIKE THAT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: NOT WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT DOING. OKAY. I WILL MAKE A COUPLE OF [01:20:03] COMMENTS. THIS LOOKS LIKE A VERY GOOD PROJECT; HOWEVER, I WILL DISAGREE A LITTLE WITH A COUPLE OF MY OTHER COMMISSIONERS IN THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER IN ZONING IS WHAT IS KNOWN AS "CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD." THAT IS THE -- THE REALLY OVERRIDING CONCERN. I AM A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS. AND HOW IT MIGHT EFFECT THE CHARACTER OF THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD. LOOKS LIKE A GOOD PROJECT. I THINK THAT GIVEN A LITTLE BIT OF TIME, SOME PEOPLE MIGHT CHANGE THEIR MIND ON THIS. I, MYSELF, WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE A COMMUNITY MEETING BEFORE WE HAVE TO MAKE A FINAL DECISION ON THIS. I WOULD ASK THE APPLICANT IF THEY ARE AMENABLE TO US CONTINUING THIS -- IT ACTUALLY WILL BE FOR THREE WEEKS FOR US, BECAUSE WE ARE OFF SCHEDULE. WE ARE MEETING A LITTLE LATE IN THE MONTH. OUR NEXT MEETING IS FEBRUARY 7, I THINK. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS AN ORGANIZED HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION IN BEAR RUN OR NOT, BUT I AM SURE YOU CAN GET IN THERE AND POST SOMETHING AND MAYBE HAVE A MEETING. DO YOU WANT TO COME UP AND ADDRESS THAT. IF YOU WANT US TO VOTE TONIGHT, WE WILL TAKE A VOTE. >> HI, STACEY ROLIS. WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE A COMMUNITY MEETING BETWEEN NOW AND FEBRUARY 7. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: YOU WILL BE OKAY IF WE CONTINUED THIS ITEM UNTIL OUR FEBRUARY MEETING WHICH WILL BE THE FIRST TUESDAY IN FEBRUARY, FEBRUARY 7. >> YES, SIR. >> RALPH, BEFORE YOU CLOSE THAT OFF, I WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT. SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE UP HERE FOR THAT. I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO JUMP AHEAD. SO I -- I PERSONALLY USE THAT BEAR RUN LOCATION FOR MY MOTOR VEHICLE TAGS, PAYING MY PROPERTY TAXES, THAT KIND OF STUFF. I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MONTH AND THE END OF THE MONTH AND NOT JUST TWO DAYS. MORE THAN SHAH THAT. >> AND THE HEALTH CLINIC IS RIGHT NEXT TO THAT. >> EXACTLY. THOR. >> SECTION WITH KNIGHT BOX WHERE OAK LEAN. AND PUT 270 UNITS AND THE ONLY INGRESS AND EGRESS OF OAK LANE. I DO THINK THAT CAUSES -- I KNOW WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT TRAFFIC, BUT YOU KNOW ME, I ALWAYS LOOK AT TRAFFIC BECAUSE IT JUST KEEPS BUILDING UP AND BUILDING UP AND BUILDING UP. THE CURRENT ZONING, I AGREE THE UC-10 GIVES THE DEVELOPER OR THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY THE ABILITY TO MAYBE BUILD 50 UNITS VERSUS 270 UNITS THAT I FEEL MIGHT BE MORE COMPATIBLE TO THAT PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. SO I WILL NOT BE IN FAVOR OF MOVING THE ARTICL FORWARD AT THIS TIME. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: YOU HAVE SOMETHING -- >> JUST WANT TOP THROW OUT SOMETHING IF YOU ARE INTERESTING HAVING THE APPLICANT MEET WITH THE COMMUNITY BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION. IN ORDER FOR STAFF TO GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM THAT MEETING AND PUT A NEW STAFF REPORT TOGETHER FOR YOU, WE NEED -- WE WOULD ASK THAT -- IF ANY CHANCE THEY CAN DO THAT BY THE END OF NEXT WEEK, WHICH IS KIND OF TIGHT TO GET THE WORD OUT -- CERTAINLY -- >> ADVERTISE FOR TWO WEEKS. >> THEY HAVE TO ADVERTISE TWO WEEKS BEFORE? >> ALREADY ADVERTISED. IF YOU CONTINUE IT, WE DO NOT NEED TO ADVERTISE IT AGAIN. >> YOU CAN CONTINUE AN ITEM OVER AND OVER AGAIN. WE HAVE A POLICY LIMIT, I THINK, OF DOING THAT THREE TIMES HERE. BUT, NO, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE READVERTISED. BECAUSE IT IS ALREADY ADVERTISED SO WE CAN DO IT NEXT MONTH. AND IF -- IF THEY ARE NOT READY NEXT MONTH, THEN THE APPLICANT CAN COME IN AND SAY, CAN YOU GIVE US ANOTHER MONTH. I AM PRETTY SURE THEY ARE ON A TIMELINE WHERE THEY WANT TO GET GOING. >> COME BACK IN MARCH TALKING TO THE HOMEOWNERS AND HAVE MORE TIME TO TALK. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: WE COULD, BUT I AM NOT SURE THAT THE APPLICANT WANTS TO WAIT TWO MONTHS. >> GOING BACK TO THE POINT WE RAISED WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THE COMMUNITY. >> WE WILL DO EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER TO HAVE A MEETING NEXT WEEK. WE CAN NOT AGREE TO CONTINUING THIS UNTIL MARCH BECAUSE OF DUE DILIGENCE. >> MAY WANT TO PUT LITTLE BANNER ON THE ENTRANCE OF BEAR RUN BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE A ORGANIZED HOMEOWNER -- BUT SOMEONE SEEMS TO HAVE GOTTEN [01:25:01] THEM ORGANIZED. SO I WOULD -- I THINK YOU WILL HAVE SOME TURNOUT. >> I THINK SO TOO. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: WE CAN GET SOME FEEDBACK. >> DO YOU MIND IF I SAY SOMETHING? LET ME TAKE A MINUTE AND SAY THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THE APPLICANT HAD TO DO. I WOULD ENCOURAGE WHEN THE COMMUNITY COMES TOGETHER TOGETHER TO HAVE THIS OPEN CONVERSATION, IT IS DONE WITH COOL HEADS. IT IS DONE WITH NICE WORDS. IT IS PROFESSIONAL. AND I THINK -- AND THEY JUST PROVEN IF THIS PASSES AS A CONTINUANCE, THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH YOU AS A COMMUNITY. WHICH IS WHAT WE WANT. WE WANT OUR DEVELOPERS AND OUR BUILDERS TO WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY TO MAKE SURE THINGS ARE AMICABLE ACROSS THE BOARD AS MUCH AS THEY CAN BE. I WILL ENCOURAGE YOU TO BE PROFESSIONAL WHEN YOU COME AND HAVE A HEALTHY DIALOGUE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: I AM OPEN TO A MOTION. >> MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DEFER IT TO THE NEXT MEETING FEBRUARY 2. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: PETE, YOU SECONDED IS THAT? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF A CONTINUANCE TO OUR NEXT MEETING FEBRUARY 7, STATE AYE. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. I DO HAVE A QUESTION BEFORE EVERYBODY GETTING READY TO LEAVE. STATE ROAD 21, BLANDING. THAT IS A STATE ROAD. THAT IS FDOT. WE DON'T DO THE COUNTY -- THE BEST WE CAN DO IS GO AND BEG THEM TO DO SOMETHING PRETTY, RIGHT? >> CORRECT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THE TRAFFIC MANAGER SAID THAT APPLICANT OAK LANE CLEARS. IT WON'T AND ON KNIGHT BOX GOING TO BLANDING AND IT DOES NOT CLEAR ON THE NIGHT. SO IF THERE IS A PROCESS FOR THE COUNTY TO REFER TO FDOT, THEY NEED TO LOOK AT THIS INTERSECTION, WHETHER THIS HAPPENS OR NOT, THAT INTERSECTION NEEDS SOME HELP, DESPITE WHAT THEY THINK. LET THEM COME SIT OUT IN THE TRAFFIC FOR A WHILE AND IT WILL CHANGE YOUR MIND. WITH THAT, I AM GOING TO GIVE EVERYBODY A CHANCE TO LEAVE BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME MORE BUSINESS. AND I AM SURE YOU GUYS WANT TO GO HOME. YOU ARE WELCOME TO STAY, BUT WE HAVE A FEW MORE ITEMS TO TAKE UP. >> THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR COMING TOO. OH, ONE THING -- ONE THING I MEANT TO TELL YOU. THE BOARD -- WELL, WE ARE CONTINUING THIS TO NEXT MONTH. SO -- >> ON THE 24TH? >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: ON THE 7TH. THE 7TH -- THE BCC HAS A MEETING ON THE 24ST, BUT SINCE WE HAVE CONTINUED THIS ITEM, IT WILL NOT GO TO THE BCC UNTIL THEY GET A RECOMMENDATION FROM US. SO THEY WON'T HEAR THIS NEXT WEEK. COME BACK HERE FEBRUARY 7. OK OKAY. >> THE REST OF THIS IS REALLY RIVETING IF YOU WANT TO STICK ARO AROUND. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: IF YOU ARE LEAVING, PLEASE CLEAR THE CHAMBER BECAUSE WE DO NEED TO DO SOME OTHER BUSINESS HERE. [2.  First Public Hearing to consider CPA-2022-18 and REZ-2022-26. (District 4, Comm. Condon) (M. Brown)] OKAY. 37 ALL RIGHT, WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM FOR TONIGHT. ITEM NUMBER 2 WHICH IS A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER CPA-2O22-18 AND REZ-2022-26. AND MR. BROWN. >>MIKE BROWN: MR. CHAIRMAN AND PLANNING COMMISSION, THIS IS A REQUEST FOR SMALL SCALE LAND USE AMENDMENT FROM COMMERCIAL TO RURAL RESIDENTIAL AND A COMPANION ZONING MAP AMENDMENT FROM -- FROM COMMERCIAL PROFESSIONAL OFFICE BA-2 TO AGRICULTURE RESIDENTIAL, AR FOR THE SAME PROPERTIES. THE APPLICANT IS CHARLES TAYLOR. IT IS IN THE MIDDLEBURGH CLAY HILL PLANNING DISTRICT AND [01:30:02] COMMISSIONER CONDON'S COMMISSION DISTRICT. AND THIS WILL BE HEARD NEXT WEEK BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. THE SUBJECT PARCEL IS 1.03 ACRES AND HAVE TWO ZONING DEDESIGNATION AND TWO LAND USE DESIGNATIONS WHICH COINCIDE WITH THE SAME AREAS. APPROXIMATELY 0.9 ACRES ARE DESIGNATED COMMERCIAL ON -- >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: HANG ON -- SERGEANT, CAN YOU CLOSE THAT DOOR FOR US? THANK YOU. >>MIKE BROWN: APPROXIMATELY 0.9 ACRES OF THE PARCEL IS DESIGNATED COMMERCIAL ON THE FUTURE LAND USE. AND BA-2 ZONING WITH THE REMAINING 0.15 ACRES DESIGNATED RURAL RESIDENTIAL, LAND USE AND AR ZONING. THE REQUEST IS TO CHANGE THE LAND USE ZONING SO THE ENTIRE PARCEL IS A SINGLE LAND USE, RURAL RESIDENTIAL AND A SINGLE ZONING CATEGORY, AGRICULTURE RESIDENTIAL. THE PARCEL IS LOCATED ON THE CORNER OF ANCHOR ROAD AND BLANDING BOULEVARD AND CURRENTLY UNDEVELOPED. EAST OF THE PARCEL ALONG ANCHOR IS AN ASSOCIATION WITH THE SEAMAN'S COVE SUBDIVISION WITH THE REZONING AND LAND USE CHANGE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS PARCEL AS A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL USE. IT SHOWS YOU THE ZONING ON THE LEFT. AND THE -- THE LAND USE ON THE LEFT AND THE ZONING ON THE RIGHT. AS YOU CAN SEE, THE MAJORITY OF THE PARCEL IS DESIGNATED BOTH COMMERCIAL LAND USE AND ZONING AND THAT -- AND THAT IS WHAT THE DESIRE IS TO CHANGE TO RURAL RESIDENTIAL AND AR ZONING. JUST IN SUMMARY, THE REQUESTED FUTURE LAND USE CHANGE FROM COMMERCIAL TO RURAL RESIDENTIAL WILL RESULT IN A REDUCTION OF THE DEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL FOR THE PARCEL ALONG WITH THE CORRESPONDING REDUCTION OF IMPACTS FROM ANY DEVELOPMENTS ON THE SITE. THE REQUESTED AR ZONING IS ALLOWED IN THE PROPOSED RURAL RESIDENTIAL FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION. STAFF HAS REVIEWED THE APPLICATION AND DETERMINED THAT THE REQUEST IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUDING AREA. APPROVAL OF THE SMALL SCALE COMPREHENSIVE MAP CHA CHANGE, CPA-2022-18 FROM COMMERCIAL TO RURAL RESIDENTIAL AND STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE REZONING, 22-26 FROM BA-2 TO AR, CONTINGENT OF APPROVAL OF THE LAND USE CHANGE. ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF? >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: I THINK I SAW, MIKE, IN HERE, THIS PARTICULAR PARCEL IS KIND OF SPLIT IN BETWEEN -- >> RIGHT. IT HAS SPLIT ZONING AND SPLIT LAND USE PUNXSUTAWNEY PUCK ANY >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: IS THE APPLICANT HERE? >> CHARLES TAYLOR, TRUSTEE OF THE TAYLOR FAMILY TRUST. AND WANTED TO ASK YOU TO CONSIDER THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE AND STAFF AND CHANGING THE PROPERTY FROM THE FUTURE LAND USE CHANGE FROM COMMERCIAL PROPERTY TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. RURAL RESIDENTIAL ACTUALLY. AND THE -- THE CHANGE -- TO CHANGE THE REZONING FROM COMMERCIAL PROPERTY BA-2 TO AGRICULTURE RESIDENTIAL, AR. THE -- I SPOKE WITH SOME OF THE RESIDENTS IN SEAMAN'S COVE. YOU CAN SEE ON THE MAP THERE BY BEING A RESIDENTIAL LOT. THEY HAVE A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME. WOULDN'T CREATE AS MUCH TRAFFIC AS A COMMERCIAL BUILDING OF A PROFESSIONAL OFFICE BUILDING WOULD CREATE A LOT MORE TRAFFIC IN THAT AREA. SO THEY SEEM TO BE WELL PLEASED WITH THE ZONING CHANGE. SO THEY TOLD ME VERBALLY THAT. SO I ASK THAT YOU ACCEPT THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE STAFF FOR APPROVAL. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? THANK YOU. I AM GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS ONE. I HAVE FOUR CARDS, I BELIEVE. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE. HOBIE ANDERSON -- YOU WANT TO SPEAK ON THIS? >> THE NEXT ITEM. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: OH, OKAY. RICHARD SHETTLES? SAME THING? [01:35:04] TERRY LEE. >> SORRY, I WAS TOLD WRONG. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THAT'S FINE. THAT'S WHY WE CHECK. AND ALISON BRAMLET. SAME THING. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE FIVE CARDS FOR THE NEXT ONE. I DON'T HAVE ANYBODY ON A CARD. I DON'T SEE ANYONE APPROACHING THE PODIUM SO I AM GOING TO CLOSE THIS PUBLIC HEARING. I AM GOING TO CLOSE -- OKAY. SHE DIDN'T WANT TO COME UP, RIGHT. I AM GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND BRING IT BACK TO THE BOARD FOR DISCUSSION OR A MOTION. >> I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE. >> I SECOND. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: OKAY, MISS BRIDGEMAN. ANY DISCUSSION ON THIS ONE? >> WE RARELY SEE THIS DOWNCONTROLLING FROM A COMMERCIAL USE TO RESIDENTIAL USE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: MAKES SENSE IN THIS CASE. YOU LOOK AT THE MAP, YOU CAN TELL THIS IS WHEN WE DID THE ORIGINAL COMP PLAN AND SLICED THE 300 FEET OR WHATEVER OFF. IT IS COMMERCIAL, BUT THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET TO IT IS FROM ANCHOR ROAD AND SO THAT IS KIND OF SILLY. ALL RIGHT, THERE IS A MOTION -- OKAY. THERE IS A -- THERE IS A MOTION ON THE FLOOR TO -- NO, WE GOT TO DO THIS IN TWO PIECES. HOP MADE THE MOTION? YOU NEED TO FIRST DO THE LAND CHANGE. >> I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE LAND CHANGE GOING FORWARD. >>COMMISSIONER BRIDGMAN: SECOND TO THAT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: SEEING NO DISCUSSION ON THAT, ALL IN FAVOR OF CHANGING THE LAND USE, SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED. >> MAKE A MOTION TO MOVE SECTION B FORWARD AS STATED BY THE STAFF. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THE REZONING TO AR. YOU SECOND THAT? >>COMMISSIONER BRIDGMAN: LIKEWISE, SECOND THAT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: NO DISCUSSION? THEN ALL IN FAVOR OF SUPPORTING THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION ON THE REZONING, STATE AYE. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. ALL RIGHT, SIR, THE BOARD WILL HEAR THIS ONE NEXT WEEK. YOURS WILL BE HERE NEXT WEEK FOR THE COUNTY COMMISSION. [3.  Public Hearing to consider CPA 2022-22. (District 5, Comm. Burke) (B. Carson)] THANK YOU. NEXT ITEM IS A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER CPA-2022-20 AND PCD-2 PCD-20 PCD-2022-12. >> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING T TO, CPA-2022-22, A SMALL SCALE LAND USE FOR BRANDON FIELD CONSERVATION NETWOULD, TO BRANDON FIELD COMMUNITY IN THE RI RIDGEWOOD, DISTRICT 5, COMMISSIONER BURKE IS THE COMMISSIONER THERE. THIS WILL BE HEARD ON THE BCC HEARING NEXT TUESDAY. THIS IS ACTUALLY A FOLLOW-UP TO TO THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT LAST MONTH ADJACENT TO THE PARCELS ON MANATEE POINT. 5.24 ACRES ARE ACTUALLY UPLANDS ON THIS. NOT ALL TECHNICALLY DEVELOPABLE FOR HOUSES WHEN YOU SEE THE CONFIGURATION OF THE UPLANDS. AGAIN, GOING FROM PRIMARY CONSERVATION NETWORK ON THAT PORTION THAT IS HATCH ED TO THE LEFT IS THE PCM. THE BROWN IS THE BRANNANFIELD WHICH YOU RECOMMENDED TO THE BOARD AND THEY APPROVED LAST MONTH. THIS IS THE FINAL LOT IN THE SUBDIVISION. NOT ANY OTHER ADDITIONAL LOTS. PART OF WHAT WE BELIEVE IS THAT THE SUBDIVISION CON SELL PLATED BACK IN 199. TO THE RIGHT IS THE ZONING ALL PART OF THE PUD. THE LEFT IS THE SOILS. THE RIGHT IS THE FLOOD ZONE MAP. AND IT IS LOCATED WITHIN THE AE FLOOD WAY. WHICH MEANS THERE ARE CERTAIN CRITERIA OF HOW ANYTHING WOULD BE BUILT IN THERE. AERIAL OF THE SITE, YOU CAN SEE IT IS PRIMARILY LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL SURROUNDING IT. THE PORTION TO THE NORTH OF IT WILL REMAIN IN CONSERVATION. UNDEVELOPED AS THE ADJACENT PARCELS HAVE. THE EFFECT ON THE LEVEL OF SERVICE. NOW WE ALWAYS BASE THIS ON THE HIGHEST DENSITY THAT IS POTENTIAL ON THE SITE. BUT, AGAIN, GIVEN THE CONFIGURATION OF THE SITE, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU WILL EVER GET [01:40:01] THAT CAPACITY. SO IT IS WITHIN THE URBAN SERVICE AREA. SOLID WASTE CAPACITY AVAILABLE BASED ON THE DENSITY OF THREE GROSS UNITS. ONE DWELLING UNIT PER THREE GROSS ACRES UP TO SIX WITH AN AVERAGE OF FIVE. THAT IS WHERE YOU GET THE 28 P.M. PEAK-HOUR TRIPS. STORMWATER MANAGEMENT WILL HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED ON-SITE. WITH THAT, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THIS, BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON THE ORIGINAL SUBDIVISION THAT WAS PLANNED BACK IN '99. THERE WAS A SURE LINE THAT WAS PLANNED TO SERVE THIS AREA. ANYTHING INCREASING THAT WILL REQUIRE INCREASED CAPACITY WITH THAT SEWER LINE. SO WITH THAT, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED LAND USE CHANGE FOR THIS PARCEL. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS -- YES, MR. BOURRE. >> THIS LOT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PART OF WHAT WE DID SIX WEEKS AGO? >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> HOW DID IT NOT INCLUDE -- >> WE DIDN'T INCLUDE IT BECAUSE WITH THE FLOODWAY, WE THOUGHT NOTHING COULD BE DEVELOPED ON THE SITE. THE PROPERTY -- WHEN WE NOTIFIED THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER, THIS PARCEL OWNER BROUGHT US A SURVEY SHOWING THAT THERE WAS ACTUALLY UPLANDS MATCHING THAT. >> WHO BROUGHT THIS FORWARD. OBVIOUSLY THE PROPERTY OWNER DID. >> CORRECT, YES. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: ANYONE ELSE? IS THE APPLICANT HERE? YOU WANT TO COME UP AND HAVE A WORD? >> TECHNICALLY, THE COUNTY IS THE APPLICANT AS THE PROPERTY OWNER. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: WE MAY HAVE QUESTIONS FOR YOU. THANK YOU. THEN I AM GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. I THINK I HAVE CARDS FOR THAT -- FOR THIS ONE. ANGELA KISS. IS THIS ONE? >> ANGELA KISS, 2188 WINCHESTER ROAD, GREEN COVE SPRINGS. I DIDN'T INTEND TO SPEAK THIS EVENING, BUT THE MORE I SEE WHAT IS INTENDED. IT IS ALREADY LUDICROUS TO BE DRIVING AROUND THERE AND I HAVE A SEVERE MEDICAL CONDITION WITH -- AND I HAVE AN EXCUSE -- A HARD TIME SPEAKING WITH MY STUTTER WITH MY SLIP. AND I DON'T SEE HOW I CAN GET ON A AMBULANCE AND GET TO A HOSPITAL WITH MY MEDICAL CONDITION IN -- WITH -- IN CASE I HAVE -- SHE IS HERE IN CASE I HAVE -- I JUST ACTUALLY -- MET HER OVER THERE. BUT MORE HOMES ARE GOING TO CAUSE MORE TRAFFIC. WE ARE ALREADY SMOTHERED THERE. MY DAUGHTER CAN BARELY GET TO SCHOOL ON TIME ON THE SCHOOL BUS. I AM GOING TO ASK KINDLY, PLEASE PUT YOURSELF IN OUR SHOES. LET'S SWITCH SHOES FOR A MOMENT. AND THEN JUST IMAGINE IF YOU HAD SOMEBODY WITH DISABILITY, IMAGINE IF YOU HAD CHILDREN, DO YOU WANT THEM LIVING IN A HOME OR AN AREA -- NOT ON A HOME, BUT AN AREA WHERE -- YOU CAN'T BREATHE GOING TO THE GROCERY STORE. IT IS NOW -- PEOPLE ARE GETTING AGGRESSIVE WITH EACH OTHER. IT IS TOO MUCH. JUST TOO MUCH. AND THEN TO ADD MORE. IT IS ALREADY -- IT IS ALREADY OVERWHELMING. WHY WOULD WE ADD TO PROBLEM. THAT IS ALL I AM ASKING. PLEASE, I AM ASKING KINDLY TO PUT YOURSELF IN OUR SHOES AND IMAGINE IF YOU HAD TO GET ON AN AMBULANCE OR YOU HAD A FAMILY MEMBER THAT HAD A MEDICAL CONDITION THAT HAD TO GET ON THE AMBULANCE THAT THEIR LIFE IS AT STAKE. TWO MONTHS IN A COMA, BRAIN SURGERY, YEAH, IMAGINE HOW WOULD THEY GET TO THE HOSPITAL. OR IF YOUR CHILDREN ARE NOW GETTING TO SCHOOL LATE ON THE SCHOOL BUS BECAUSE THERE IS TOO MANY HOMES. JUST -- THE SMALLEST THINGS. PLEASE CONSIDER THOSE. THAT'S ALL I AM ASKING KINDLY. I DIDN'T INTEND TO SPEAK, BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU. TIM MERIT. IS THIS ONE -- THERE HE IS. >> HELLO. MY NAME IS TIM MERIT. I LIVED -- I AM 3132 GLEN COVE BRINGS. I LIVED ON BUY RUN ROAD SINCE 199 #. QUITE A WHILE, 30 YEARS. WE HAD MORE GROWTH IN CLAY COUNTY IN THAT -- IN THE L [01:45:01] LAKE ASBURY AREA. I GREW UP IN LAKE ASBURY. I HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE I WAS 15. THEY APPROVED ALL THE SUBDIVISIONS IN THE PERSON PART OF THAT CORRIDOR RIGHT THERE. THEY HAVE NOT DONE ANY ROAD IMPROVEMENTS BETWEEN 209 AND GREEN COVE. THEY ARE ALL TWO LANE. THEY ARE PUTTING -- HOW MANY? I AM NOT SURE. PROBABLY 30,000 HOMES IN THERE NOW. BETWEEN GREEN COVE ANDLAKE ASBURY. 209 THE BLACK CREEK BRIDGE. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY HOMES HE IS PETITIONING FOR, 20 MORE, 30 MORE? I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY YOU CAN PIT ON THAT PIECE -- THAT PARCEL. IT DOESN'T MATTER. THERE ARE SO MANY NOW. WE CAN'T GET OFF OF BUY RUN TO CROSS K57 BLACK CREEK BRIDGE. THEY WON'T PUT A LIGHT AT BYRUN. THEY WON'T PUT A LIGHT AT THE NEXT SUBDIVISION THERE. WHAT IS IT? WELL, THEY ARE IN BETWEEN THAT. THEY ARE RIGHT OFF THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BRIDGE THERE. SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT ALL OF THAT SHOULD BE STOPPED UNTIL THEY UPDATE THESE ROADS BETWEEN GREEN COVE, LAKE ASBURY AND FURTHER TOWARD 220. JUST A TERRIBLE SUBDIVISION. TERRIBLE PLAN AT THE MOMENT FOR ANY MORE DEVELOPMENT. THANK YOU. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU. RITA ARNOLD IS FOR THIS ONE? YES, OKAY. >> HI, MY NAME IS RITA ARNOLD. I LIVE 2860 OAKLAND DRIVE. KIND OF NEW TO THE AREA. HAVE BEEN THERE TWO YEARS NOW. THE REASON WE BOUGHT OUR PROPERTY THERE IS THERE WERE WETLANDS ACROSS THE STREET FROM US SO NO ONE COULD DEVELOP THERE AND WETLANDS ACROSS THE CREEK FROM US WHICH IS WHERE, IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING, WHERE THIS IS BEING DEVELOPED AND A LOT OF BOAT TRAFFIC OUT THERE. I TOOK THE LIBERTY OF MAKING A PETITION AND ALL OF THE OWNERS THAT ARE HERE TONIGHT OR HAVE BEEN HERE EARLIER TONIGHT. AND IF IT IS OKAY WITH YOU, I WOULD LIKE TO READ A LITTLE PORTION ABOUT THAT. SO THE AREA IN QUESTION IS ZONED AS CONSERVATION. BECAUSE THESE ARE THE WETLANDS, WHICH ARE HOME TOO -- I APOLOGIZE IF I AM NOT ACCURATE ON THIS BECAUSE I AM NOT AN EXPERT. I BELIEVE THEY ARE WESTLANDS AND NESTING TO NUMEROUS WILDLIFE AROUND THE BLACK CREEK. NOT LIMITED TO DEER, GRAY FOX, DUCKS, TURTLE, OTTERS, MANATEES, LIMPKINS, GREAT BLUE HERONS, EGRET, WOODPECKERS, BLUE BIRDS, SONGBIRDS. SORRY. AND BIRDS OF PREY, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO EAGLES AND HAWKS AND OSPREY AND OWLS, WHICH IS ONE OF THE REASON WHY MANY OF US MOVE HERE. AND I APPRECIATE THE GENTLEMAN THAT BROUGHT UP THE REASON OF THE LANDOWNER HAVING -- YOU KNOW THAT THEY HAVE RIGHTS TO THEIR PROPERTY BECAUSE THEY BOUGHT THAT PROPERTY, BUT WE ALSO BOUGHT THAT PROPERTY THAT WE BOUGHT BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ONE ACROSS FROM US. 37 AND IF YOU BUILD MORE ON THE CREEK SIDE, THOSE HOUSES -- THERE IS NOBODY ACROSS. THEY ARE WHAT I THOUGHT WAS WETLANDS WHICH IS ONE OF THE REASON WE BOUGHT THERE. THAT IS RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE OLD FERRY BOAT RAMP THAT WILL CREATE TRAFFIC OVER THERE AND THAT ARE ROW THE CREEK. WE HAVE A LOT OF BOATS, LARGE BOATS COMING FROM THE REFER. THE RIVER IS ONLY FOUR MILES FROM US. AND LARGE BOATS COMING THROUGH THAT AREA AND BLOCK THAT AREA AND WILL IMPEDE BOAT TRAFFIC. AND NOT TO MENTION -- I -- I AM NOT AN EXPERT AGAIN, BUT I FEEL LIKE IT IS GOING TO CHANGE THE SURGE PATTERN OF THE WATER AND THE FLOODING. AND BLACK CREEK IS SYNONYMOUS WITH FLOODING AND A BIG CONCERN AND WE HOPE YOU CONSIDER IT. I DO HAVE A PETITION HERE. AND -- CAN I LEAVE THAT WITH YOU? THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LISTENING. >> THANK YOU, MA'AM. THAT WAS RITA, RIGHT? >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: ALISON BRAMLET. >> HI, THANK YOU. MY NAME IS ALISON BRAMLET, 359 LAKE ASBURY DRIVE. I AM IN LAKEASBURY BUT ON BLACK WATER CREEK. [01:50:05] I HAVE BEEN ON THE CREEK FOR FOUR YEARS. HIGH HUSBAND GREW UP HERE. HE IS ABOUT 41. MY FATHER-IN-LAW LIVED NON BYRUM ROAD AND HIS HOUSE WAS MOVED WITH EMINENT DOMAIN AND I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE INS AND OUTS WITH PROPERTY ON THE CREEK. MY MAIN THING THAT I AM WONDERING NOW IS WHY IS THE LANGUAGE KIND OF SO VAGUE WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE PROPERTY. AT THIS POINT, I AM JUST WANTING SOME MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT SPECIFICALLY IS HAPPENING. I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS CAN BE REFERRED TO GO FORWARD WITH SUCH VAGUE LANGUAGE. HOW MANY HOUSES ARE GOING ON THERE. WHAT IS GOING TO BE DONE FOR DRAINAGE, FOR ROADS, ALL THE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE. WITH NO INFORMATION, IT IS KIND OF LIKE -- HARD TO SAY WHAT WE ARE EVEN TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW. SO I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH IT. WHAT -- WHAT MORE INFORMATION THAT WE CAN GATHER SO WE CAN COME UP WITH A LITTLE BIT MORE CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK FOR YOU, BUT IN GENERAL, I DO LIVE ACROSS FROM LAND THAT IS NOW A CONSERVATION AREA. THE NORTH FLORIDA LAND TRUST ACTUALLY JUST ACQUIRED IT A FEW YEARS AGO. THEY HAVE INTENTIONS OF KEEPING IT AS CONSERVATION LAND. AS MUCH LAND AS POSSIBLE ADJACENT FROM THE CREEK TO PREVENT FROM BEING DEVELOPED IS A GOOD THING. I UNDERSTAND THAT DEVELOPMENT IS INEVITABLE AND PLENTY OF PROPERTY ON THE CREEK AS IT STANDS. THAT WAS LEFT OVER FROM IRMA THAT HAS -- YOU KNOW, CONDEMNED OR YET TO BE FIXED THAT CAN BE USED. I DON'T SEE -- LIKE I SAID AND LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE AGREES, I DON'T SEE THE NEED TO TEAR DOWN ANY MORE TREES OR WETLANDS FOR DEVELOPMENT PURPOSES. AND I ALSO WANT TO BACK UP WHAT RITA SAID ABOUT THE OLD FERRY BOAT MATCH AND THE WATER AGENCIES CAN ATTEST TO THAT. THERE IS A TON OF TRAFFIC THAT GOES THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE SITE BECAUSE DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM THE OLD FERRY BOAT RAMP. A NO SPEED ZONE AS IT IS AND SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. I URGE TO YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE LAND. IT IS VERY BEAUTIFUL AND ALL THE WILDLIFE AND ALL THE THINGS KILLED, RELOCATED, ETC., ARE THINGS TO CONSIDER. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, MA'AM. A TERRY LEE SULLENGER. >> SULLENGER. >> GOOD EVENING, TERRI L LEE SULLENGER. GREEN COVE SPRINGS. I LIVED THERE 31 YEARS THIS YEAR. WHEN WE BOUGHT ON BLACK CREEK IN 1992, WE WERE TOLD THAT THE LAND FROM THE 209 BRIDGE TO ST. JOHNS WILL NEVER BE DEVELOPED. AND IN 1999,: MANATEE POINT SHOWED UP. SO EXPLAIN THAT. FIRST OFF. SECONDLY, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW -- LET ME JUST BACKTRACK. IF WE WERE TOLD IN 1992 THAT THAT LAND ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE CREEK FROM THE 209 BRIDGE TO THE ST. JOHNS RIVER WAS TO NEVER BE DEVELOPED, HOW WAS MANATEE POINT WAS ALLOWED. THAT IS THE POWERS-TO-BE. I WON'T SAY WHAT I AM THINKING. ANYWAYS, WITH THAT BEING SAID, THE LACK OF COMPASSION FROM THIS BOARD TONIGHT IS KIND OF SHOCKING. THE PEOPLE THAT SPOKE BEFORE OF THE DEVELOPMENT NEAR -- NEAR BEAR RUN. Y'ALL KNOW TRAFFIC IS A PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTY AND IT AS PROBLEM PULLING OUT ON BLANDING FROM THAT AREA. THE FACT THAT YOU JUST DISMISSED IT AND SAID IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PROPERTY OWNER TO DEVELOP HIS PROPERTY. WELL, JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS RIGHT DOESN'T MAKE IT THE RIGHT THING TO DO. JUST BECAUSE HE HAS THAT RIGHT DOESN'T MEAN IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE COMMUNITY, OKAY. SECONDLY -- OR ANOTHER POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE. HOW EMBARRASSING THAT DEVELOPMENT COMPANY FOUND THAT DRAINAGE PIPE AND UNCOVERED IT AND UNPLUGGED IT. YOU ALL SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED. WHOEVER TAKES CARE OF CLAY COUNTY SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED, OKAY. WHEN THE FLOOD HAPPENED OF IRMA, OUR HOME HAD FOUR FOOT OF WATER IN IT. I LIVED THERE 25 YEARS AND NEVER HAD WATER NEAR OUR HOME UNTIL HURRICANE IRMA. WE KNOW FACTORS WERE INVOLVED. WE HAD PEOPLE WITH MONEY GO TO TALLAHASSEE THAT THE BRIDGE AT 209 HAVE BASICALLY BECOME A WATER DAM. [01:55:03] THAT LAKE ASBURY CAN DRAIN WATER WITH JOE BLOW WITH A KEY CAN DRAIN WATER IN BLACK CREEK WHENEVER HE FEELS THE NEED. IT REALLY SAYS A LOT. WE MET PEOPLE WHEN HURRICANE IRMA HAPPENED THAT LIVED ON RETENTION PONDS AND DITCHES OUT IN FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE THAT WAS NOT MAINTAINED BY CLAY COUNTY. THEY DIDN'T HAVED INTO INSURANCE AND DIDN'T WILL I HAVE IN A FLOOD PLAIN. THEIR HOUSE FLOODED WITH IRMA BECAUSE THE COUNTY DIDN'T MAINTAIN THE ROAD AND DRAINAGE DITCHES 37 AND YOU SAY -- AM I DONE? IS MY TIME UP, SIR. >> I AM UPSET. I CLEAN -- LET ME JUST SAY TEN SECONDS. I GO UP ON THE BRIDGE AND CLEAN IT MYSELF. I PICK UP WHEELBARROWS FULL OF GARBAGE, OKAY. THAT IS THE STATE OF THIS AREA OF CLAY COUNTY. YOU GO THROUGH FLEMING ISLAND YOU DON'T SEE THE GARBAGE ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD. YOU DON'T SEE FOUR-FOOT-TALL WEEDS IN THE CULVERT WHERE THE BAUER IS SUPPOSED TO DRAIN. I AM NOT SURE THE PROPER NAME WHERE THE WATER IS SUPPOSED TO DRAIN OFF THE ROAD. DRIVE DOWN HENLEY ROAD AND LOOK AT THE DIRT, DEBRIS AND WEEDS AND YOU GUYS CAN'T MAINTAIN IT BUT LET'S ADD SOME MORE HOUSES. LET'S DO IT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, MA'AM. RICHARD SHETTLER. >> RICHARD SHETTLER. ABOUT RIGHT THERE. YOU MENTIONED, MR. CHAIRMAN. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: RAISE THE MIC A LITTLE. IT IS NOT PICKING UP UP. >> THAT IS RIGHT ACROSS FROM MY PROPERTY, THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY. AND YOU MENTIONED IT EARLIER, A RESPONSIBILITY TO PRESERVE AND MAINTAIN BOTH WHAT WE HAVE IN PLACE WHICH A NATIONAL TREASURE IN MY OPINION CALLED BLACK CREEK. WHERE ELSE CAN YOU FIND IN FLORIDA LET ALONE IN THE UNITED STATES AN AREA AS BEAUTIFUL AS T THAT. HAS BALD EAGLES NESTING AND ANY OTHER KIND OF SPECIES IN FLORIDA. SECONDLY, WE WOULDN'T BE HERE TODAY IF IT WAS A RUBBER STAMP TO SAY YOU HAVE YOU A RIGHT TO GET A ZONING CHANGE AND -- WE WOULDN'T HAVE THIS MEETING. IT WOULD BE A RUBBER STAMP. WE WOULD COME HERE AND GO, HEY, THIS IS IT -- WHY ARE WE HAVING A PUBLIC HEARING AND APPROVED AND GO LIKE THIS. THE SECOND THING THAT BOTHERS ME ABOUT THIS IS IF THIS IS INTENDED TO HAVE ONE HOME BUILT OF END OF MANATEE POINT ROAD. WHY AREN'T WE DISCUSSING THE ZONING OPPORTUNITY. I THINK I CAME DOWN TO TALK TO THE ZONING OFFICE FOUR OR FIVE WEEKS AGO WHEN WE FIRST GOT THIS MAILED US TO ASKING THAT QUESTIONS. IF THERE WERE OTHER ZONING OPTIONS BESIDES CHANGING ALL THAT LAND FROM CONSERVATORY TO BEING DEVELOPABLE. YOU CAN DEVELOP IT NOW. YOU CAN'T DEVELOP ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF MANATEE POINT. AND NO ROOM FOR A HOUSE BUT PUT A DOCK -- YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT BEAR RUN. TALKING OF A APARTMENT COMPLEX OR HIGH DENSITY COMPLEX CHANGES THINGS AS WELL. I THINK PER PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE WHEN IT COMES TO THAT COMMENT. ANYWAY, YOU ARE DEFINITELY CHANGING THE LANDSCAPE. IT'S CONSERVATORY FOR A REASON. AND INDIVIDUALS THAT BOUGHT THAT PROPERTY BOUGHT IT UNDER THE UNDERSTANDING IT WAS CONSERVATORY PROPERTY TO BEGIN WITH AND WASN'T DEVELOPABLE. THAT IS MY COMMENTS. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: OKAY. CAN YOU AND THIS TO ONE OF THESE GUYS. WE WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT THAT A LITTLE CLOSER. >> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: I HAVE ONE MORE CARD FOR THIS ONE. HOBIE ANDERSON? >> HI, A LITTLE TALLER SO I HAVE TO MOVE IT UP HERE. MY NAME IS HOBIE ANDERSON, 2956 OAKLAND DRIVE. RETIRED NAVAL OFFICER. AGAIN, WE MOVED TO THE AREA BECAUSE OF THE BEAUTIFUL OF CLAY COUNTY. AND I THINK EVERYBODY HERE WOULD AGREE THAT BLACK CREEK IS A TREASURE TO THE COUNTY. NOT ANOTHER BLACK CREEK THAT WILL BE TREATED. EVERYTHING WATERFRONT HAS BEEN DEVELOPED. BLACK CREEK THEY HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB OVER THE YEARS AND [02:00:02] BECAUSE OF FLOOD PLAINING A LOT OF AREAS FOR THE ANIMALS TO LIVE. THAT PICTURE WE TOOK RIGHT THERE, YOU CAN SEE THERE ARE TREES THAT WE ROUTINELY WATCHED 37. EAGLES, HAWKS, AND OTHER BIRDS ARE NESTING AND ALLIGATORS. THE WHOLE CREEK WHENEVER THE WATER IS HIGH FLOWS ACROSS THE WETLAND AREA RIGHT THROUGH THERE. A NATIONAL S BECAUSE IT IS LOWER. WHEN THE WATER IS HIGHER. WHICH WATER IS HIGHER THE CREEK NATURALLY WANTS TO CUT ACROSS THE POINT AND SOMETIMES ACROSS OAKLAND DRIVE OF HIDDEN WATERS DURING IRMA. THE CREEK IS STRAIGHTENING OUT. TO BUILD ON THAT SEEMS INSANE TO THE POINT YOU WILL HAVE TO BRING IN TONS OF FILL DIRT AND TOTALLY CHANGING THE ECOSYSTEM OF THAT CREEK AND WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS. IF IT IS A CONSERVATION NETWORK, WHAT IS THE POINT OF CAUSING SOMETHING A CONSERVATION NETWORK AND WHENEVER SOMEONE WANTS TO BUILD MORE WATER FRONT TO CONTINUE REDESIGNATE INTO A HOUSING COMMUNITY. ANYWAY, THAT IS ALL I WANTED TO SAY AND A LOT OF PEOPLE MADE GREAT POINTS. . >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THIS CARD, ROB THOMPSON. FOR THIS ONE OR THE NEXT ONE. 4? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I DON'T HAVE ANY MORE CARDS ON THIS ONE. YOU WANT TO SPEAK, SIR? >> I DID WANT TO SPEAK. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: COME O ON. >> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS DAVID THOMAS. 2076 OAKLAND DRIVE. I JUST LEARNED OF THIS HAPPENING TODAY. I WAS NOT MAILED ANYTHING. I DON'T KNOW WHY. I LIVE ON THE END OF OAKLAND DRIVE THAN THE CREEK. I KNOW MORE OF BUILDING WETLANDS THAN MOST AVERAGE PEOPLE. YOU CAN NOT BACKFILL AND FILL WETLANDS WITHOUT IMPACTING. AND YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO GET A NO RISE PERMIT. A NO RISE PERMIT WAS $3,000. WHEN YOU GET DONE, YOU HAVE TO PROVE TO THE ARMY CORP AND DEP THAT YOU WILL NOT CAUSE THAT CREEK TO RISE ONE INCH. IF YOU DO, THEY HAVE -- THEY HAVE TO KNOW -- THEY HAVE TO BE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT IT AND THEY HAVE TO APPROVE IT. BY US IMPACTING ALL THESE AREAS AROUND THE COUNTY AND AROUND -- UP ON BLANDING AND THIS OTHER COMMUNITY, YOU START IMPACTING WATER SHEDDING AREAS THAT TYPICALLY -- STARTFILLING. THEY ARE ZONED TO BUILD THE SIDE UP. A DEVELOPMENT ANA BELL ISLAND ON 209. WHEN YOU ARE RIDE BY, THEY HAVE RAISED THE LEVEL OF THE DEVELOPMENT FOUR PETE ABOVE THE ROAD. WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN TO ALL THAT WATER, THAT WILL GO ANYWHERE ELSE. ONE OF THE CONTRIBUTING PROBLEMS WE HAD BACK IN IRMA IS BECAUSE IS PAYING ATTENTION. THEY KEEP PUTTING HOMES AND KEEP IMPACTING THE WATER SHEDDING AREAS. AND THEY ARE NOT ALLOWING THE WATER TO GO ANYWHERE BUT THE CREEK AND THAT IS THE REASON WHY YOU HAVE THIS 500-YEAR FLOOD BACK IN 2017. YOU KNOW TO ADD MORE HOMES -- THE LADY COUPLE BEFORE ME NAILED IT. SHE SAID THAT -- SHE NAILED A BUMP OF DIFFERENT THINGS. BUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE. WHY YOU KEEP ALLOWING DEVELOPMENTS. SIX DEVELOPMENTS GOING AROUND ON 209. THEY PUT AN APARTMENT COMPLEX THIS TIDE OF -- BUT OUR ROADWAYS CAN'T EVEN HANDLE IT. WE WILL BE IN TROUBLE. I LIVED IN THIS COUNTY FOR 58 YEARS. I GREW UP IN THIS COUNTY. THIS COUNTY CHANGE A LOT. IT IS GOING DOWNHILL IS WHAT IS HAPPENING BECAUSE Y'ALL ARE NOT BEING COGNIZANT. I KNOW WE ARE A BEDROOM COMMUNITY, YOU ARE NOT BEING COGNIZANT OF WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT. YOU ARE SUCCUMBING TO MONEY. WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS A LOT OF TIMES CONSERVATION AREAS THEY ALWAYS SAY, YOU CAN'T BUILD THERE. THAT IS CONSERVATION. GUESS WHAT, IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH MONEY, YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU WANT. THAT IS A PROVEN FACT. BACK TO THE PERSON WITH THE UNAILABLE RIGHTS TO BUILD. YOU KNOW, LIKE THE WOMAN WHO SAID BEFORE, THEY PLAY FROM PLANNED THIS IN 1999, JUST BECAUSE YOU PLAN IT, IT PROBABLY WASN'T A GOOD IDEA BACK THEN AND [02:05:03] NOT A DAMN GOOD IDEA -- ADDING -- RUBBING MORE SALT IN THE WOUND. I DON'T KNOW IF A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FLOOD ZONES AND FLOOD WAYS. DO I HAVE EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: YOU DO YOU. >> I DON'T KNOW IF EVERYBODY KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEE A FLOOD ZONE AND A FLOOD WAY. PEOPLE DAY IS A FLOOD ZONE. A FLOOD WAY IS THE ACTUAL CURRENT THAT THAT CREEK IS GOING TO TAKE IF THERE IS A BAD STORM. GUESS WHAT, IT PROVED IT IN 2017. IT IMPACTED A TON OF PEOPLE. AND HURT THEM. HURT THEM BAD. WHY ARE WE GOING -- WHY ARE WE GOING TO ALLOW -- YOU KNOW, IN -- AND DO YOU ALL HAVE A PLAN OF HOW MANY UNITS IT IS GOING TO BE AND HOW -- HOW THE STRUCTURE IS GOING TO BE BUILT. DO WE KNOW THAT YET? I MEAN, HAS ANYBODY SUBMITTED PLANS FOR THAT? BECAUSE -- BECAUSE IT JUST -- LIKE I SAID, YOU CAN'T -- I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY ARE GOING TO GET PAST ARMY CO ROCKSP IF THEY ARE BACKFILLING ALL THOSE WETLANDS. ALL I GOT TO SAY ABOUT IT, BUT THIS IS A BAD DECISION. AND IT NEEDS TO BE SHOT DOWN. THANK YOU. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, SIR. I DON'T HAVE ANY MORE CARDS DO YOU WANT TO SPEAK ON THIS? I KNOW THE APPLICANT OR THE OWNER WANTS TO SAY SOMETHING, BUT I AM GOING TO LET YOU GO LAST, IF THAT IS OKAY. ALL RIGHT, COME ON UP. >> I BOUGHT A PIECE OF PROPERTY IN 1999. HE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PURCHASERS -- >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: NAME AND ADDRESS. >> VICKY FIGUEROA HOLLY POINT ROAD EAST, ORANGE PARK. HE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PURCHASERS ON THAT ROAD. HE HAD SOME HEALTH PROBLEMS AT THE TIME AND COULD NOT BUILD. IT IS A BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF PROPERTY. IT IS AT THE OTHER END OF THE OLD FERRY CROSSING. HE HAS A RAMP ON HIS PROPERTY AS WELL. EXCUSE ME. THE AREA IN BROWN HAS VERY FEW CALORIES ON IT. IT IS NOT WETLAND. IT IS UPLAND. WE ARE ALL ABOUT CONSERVING. WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANY TREES DOWN. WE DON'T WANT TO DO ANY BACKFILL. THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A SUBDIVISION THERE. THERE WILL BE ONE SINGLE-FAMILY HOME. WE ARE FOLLOWING ABIDE BY WHATEVER IS NECESSARY, PUTTING IT ON STILTS, PUTTING BREAKAWAY WALL, SAME THING WE WERE GOING TO DO -- EXCUSE ME IN 1999. SO I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF CONFUSION GOING ON HERE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: MA'AM, SHE HAS THE FLOOR. >> THAT'S OKAY. DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR ME? >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: NO, I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO BE INTERRUPTED. >> I DON'T THINK WE GOT INCLUDED IN THE ORIGINAL HEARING BECAUSE THE FIRST LOT COMING IN FROM MANATEE POINT WAS SPLIT INTO TWO PARCELS. WHEN THEY COUNT IT, THEY DIDN'T COUNT US AS BEING THE LAST PARCEL AND ONE OF THE ORIGINAL PARCELS. WE DO HAVE THE WATER THE WATER COMING DOWN AND PUT A WE WILL ON THE SITE. PAYING PROPERTY TAXES FOR TEN YEARS. WE DON'T PLAN TO EFFECT THE WILDLIFE OR BRING THE TREES DOWN -- OR PULL ANY TREES DOWN ON THE BANK WHERE THE BANK. WE WOULD JUST LIKE TO USE OUR PROPERTY THAT WE ARE PAYING PROPERTY TAXES ON. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: OKAY. >> I HAVE A COUPLE -- >> MA'AM? QUESTION. YOU SAY OFF WELL ON THERE. WHAT PART OF THAT PARCEL IS THE WELL ON? JUST APPROXIMATELY. >> FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, IT'S -- WELL, YOU CAN'T SEE WHERE THE RAMP IS ON THERE, BUT -- I DON'T KNOW MY DIRECTIONS WELL BUT ON THE RIGHT SIDES OF THE RAMP IN THE UPLAND PART. AND IT IS AN ARTESIAN WELL. WE HAD IT PUT IN 23 YEARS AGO. >> TO OUR BENEFIT, THE UPLAND IS TO THE LEFT? I AM TRYING TO GET AN IDEA OF WHERE YOU ARE PLANNING TO BUILD ONE HOUSE. >> CONSIDERING IT IS IN A FLOOD WAY. BUT THE WELL -- OH -- BY THE WAY MY NAME IS JIM DURANCE. RIVER PORT DRIVE, JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA. YOU KNOW, WHEN THE LADY -- I FOGOTTEN HER NAME, MISS RAY, I BELIEVE, ORIGINALLY DEVELOPED [02:10:03] THE PROPERTY INTO FIVE PARCELS IN 1999, I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST -- I HAD A CHOICE TO BUY THE PROPERTY THAT IS ALREADY APPROVED OR THIS ONE AND I CHOSE THE WRONG ONE OBVIOUSLY. BUT -- BUT -- I IMMEDIATELY PUT ELECTRICITY ON THE SITE. I PUT A ELECTRIC POLE IN AND GOT CLAY POWER. AND I PUT AN ARTESIAN WELL IN. I WOULD SAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SITE THERE. >> WHERE THE LETTER E, T AND E. >> RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE BOAT RAMP ON THE OTHER SIDE. THE HISTORY OF THAT WAS THE FERRY USED TO COME FROM WHERE THE BOAT RAMP IS OVER TO THE PROPERTY. SO THERE IS ACTUALLY WHAT WOULD YOU SAY -- >> LIKE A LITTLE DIRT RAMP. >> A DIRT RAMP WHERE THE BOAT -- WHERE THE FERRY WOULD LAND. >> WHERE THE CABLE CROSSING WAS. >> AND SO THAT IS WHERE THE ARTESIAN WELL IS 50 FEET UP ON A BLUFF. BACK WHEN -- I NOTICED SEVERAL PEOPLE MENTIONED AND IN 2017 THAT THE WATER SWEPT ACROSS THERE. I WENT OUT THERE TO SEE WITH THE PROPERTY WITH FLOODING. I DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM. I HAD A PROBLEM GETTING DOWN TO MY LOT, BUT ONCE I GOT TO THE LOT, IT WAS HIGH AND DRIVE. >> THE MICROPHONE, YOU ARE MOVING AWAY. HE SAID HE HAD A PROBLEM GETTING TO HIS LOT BECAUSE THE LOT BEFORE OURS DID FLOOD. AND ONE WE GOT ON OUR LOT, THE SITE IN BROWN WAS HIGH AND DRY. >> SHE IS AWAY FROM THE MIC TOO. >> I AM SORRY. THE NEIGHBOR GOD FLOODED PRETTY BADLY AND OUR LOT WAS HIGH AND DRY, THE SITE MARKED IN BROWN THERE. >> MR. CHAIRMAN, ACCORDING TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISER'S WEB SITE 12 ACRE, 11.9 ACRES. >> YES. >> 1213 ACRE AND THIS AMENDMENT IS ONLY IMPACTING 3.94. >> 5.21? >> 5.21. ONLY -- MAKES MORE SENSE. SO FIVE ACRES. BUT THE PART FOR THE HOME WAS ONE AND A HALF ACRES. DID I READ THAT RIGHT? LET ME SEE IF I CAN READ THE REAL QUICK. IT IS NEARLY A 12-ACRE OR 13-ACRE PARCEL. HALF OF IT -- A LITTLE LESS THAN HALF -- FIVE ACRES ARE UPLANDS? >> OKAY. EVEN MORE UPLANDS THAN. WHEN I WENT UP AND TALKED TO BETH. SHE WAS TALKING OF CONTIGUOUS UPLANDS. I HAVE ANOTHER PARCEL ON -- PART OF THAT 13 ACRE THAT IS UPLANDS ALSO THAT WE ARE NOT EVEN PUTTING INTO THIS. WE ARE JUST GOING TO LEAVE IN THE CONSERVATION. >> THE ORIGINAL FIVE LOTS, HE WAS INCLUDED IN THE FIVE LOTS AND THEN THE FIRST LOT WAS SUBDIVIDED INTO TWO LOTS AND YOU COUNT IF FROM THERE, ALL OF A SUDDEN, HE OUT OF THE GAME. >> CORRECT. WE BELIEVE THE FIRST LOT SPLIT WITH, LIKE, A AIR SPLIT I BELIEVE BACK IN THE DAY. YOU SEE THE LITTLE NOTCH THAT COMES OUT FROM HIS PARCEL, WHERE THE EASEMENT -- HE HAS AN EASEMENT -- ACCESS ROAD EASEMENT LEADS TO HIS PROPERTY AND THE DEED INCLUDES THAT EASEMENT. >> I ALSO HAVE AN UTILITY EASEMENT THAT COMES FROM THE ROAD UP THERE ALL THE WAY DOWN ONTO MY PROPERTY THAT THE DEVELOPER OF THE FIVE LOTS HAD INSTALL BEFORE SHE SOLD IT TO ME. >> CAN WE HEAR FROM THE REST OF THE PEEK WE WANT TO SPEAK AND IF WE HAVE QUESTIONS, WE WILL COME BACK TO YOU. THANK YOU. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: WE HAVE A PROCESS, OKAY. >> I UNDERSTAND. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: KELLY ANDERSON, YOU WANTED TO SPEAK? YES, MA'AM. >> GOOD EVENING. I AM KELLY ANDERSON, 2956 OAKLAND DRIVE. COUPLE OF THINGS. I HAVE CONCERN HOW NOTIFICATION WENT OUT TO EVERYBODY WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THIS. THERE WAS THAT LARGE YELLOW SIGN INDICATING THE NOTICE OF THE MEETING. IT WAS PLACED DIRECTLY BEHIND A BARRIER. IT WAS NOT VISIBLE FROM THE STREET. THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO COULD SEE IT WERE PEOPLE DRIVING OUT OF MANATEE POINT AND FIVE OR SIX PEOPLE THAT LIVE DOWN THERE, THAT'S IT. [02:15:01] WE WERE SENT A NOTICE IN THE MAIL. OUR NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR WAS NOT. THE PHOTO PROVIDED YOU WAS TAKEN FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF OUR BACK YARD. OUR NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR IS EQUALLY IF NOT MORE IMPACTED TO THIS THAN WE ARE. WHY WERE THEY NOT NOTIFIED? THE FEW PEOPLE THAT YOU SEE HERE IS NOT A REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ADAMANTLY OPPOSED TO THIS. IF THIS LAND YESTERDAY WAS WORTH CONSERVING SINCE 1999, WHAT TODAY MAKES THAT LAND NOT WORTH CONSERVING? I WANT THAT QUESTION ANSWERED. THE OWNER IS A VERY SWEET GENTLEMAN. VERY SWEET. VERY COMPELLING. VERY BELIEVABLE. MY UNDERSTANDING IS HE PLANS TO BUILD A FAMILY COMPOUND WITH MULTIPLE HOMES THAT PLAN TO EVENTUALLY LIVE THERE. BUT IN THE MEANTIME, RENT THEM OUT THROUGH AIRBNB. IF THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE, THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. BUT WHAT HE SAYS HERE TO GET YOUR APPROVAL FOR THIS REZONING, YOU HAVE TO TAKE HIS WORD FOR IT. ONCE THIS IS REZONED, ALL THAT BEAUTY THAT YOU SEE IN THAT PICTURE IS GONE. THAT PHOTO -- TAKE A LOOK AT THAT PHOTO. IT IS ALL TREES. IT IS ALL WETLAND. IT IS BEAUTIFUL. IT IS PRISTINE. IT IS UNTOUCHED. IT IS GORGEOUS. SO TO BELIEVE THAT, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT. I AM SORRY HE IS VERY SWEET AND BELIEVABLE. I DON'T BELIEVE IT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: MARY MCCARTHY. OVER THERE. >> MARY MCCARTHY, 2866 OAKLAND DRIVE. I HEARD A LOT TONIGHT. AND I WAS ONE OF THE ORIGINAL HOMESTEADER THERE IS ON OAKLAND DRIVEWAY BACK IN 1988. THERE WAS A TON -- A TON OF CHANGES SINCE THEN. AND A LOT OF IT WAS VERY IMPACTFUL FOR THE WHOLE AREA, ESPECIALLY THE LAST FLOOD WE HAD. AND BEFORE THAT EVEN, BEFORE THAT EVEN, I -- I LIVED ON BYRUN ROAD AND THEY TALKED OF A TRAFFIC PROBLEM. THERE IS A PROBLEM AT BYRUM ROAD ON THAT BRIDGE. 1992 THERE WAS A MAN KILLED ON THE BRIDGE ON A FOGGY NIGHT. I REMEMBER THAT. IT WAS RIGHT AT CHRISTMAS EVE. THAT IS A PROBLEM. ALSO THROUGH THE YEARS WITH THE WATER RAISING AND GOING DOWN, IT DOESN'T EVEN TAKE A HURRICANE. WE HAD A LOT OF PROPERTY DAMAGE. JUST -- JUST FROM A NORTON. I THINK IT WAS -- GOSH, I WANT TO SAY -- I WOULD HAVE TO THINK WHAT YEARING IT. IT IS IN THE 90S. 95. A BIG NOR'EASTER, FULL MOON. AND IT FLOODED THE WHOLE BLACK CREEK AREA RIGHT THERE. MANY NEIGHBORS RIGHT ALONG OAKLAND DRIVE LOST HALF OF THEIR BACK YARD INTO THE CREEK. COMPLETELY FELL AWAY. IT WAS LIKE BOMBS GOING OUT IN THE NIGHT. ALL THE ROOTS OF THE TREES JUST BUST IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT ANTA AND ALL THEIR PROPERTY WENT INTO THE CREEK. I WAS RATHER SURPRISED HAVING BEEN THERE 11 YEARS IN 1999 THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO EVEN DEVELOP THIS MANATEE POINT. I THOUGHT IT WAS A CONSERVED AREA. PART OF IT SLIPPED BY US. WE DIDN'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY WHAT THEY THOUGHT. I DON'T REMEMBER NOTICES GOING UP AND THEY GOT PART OF IT. I HAVE TO TELL YOU WHEN THE HURRICANE CAME IN 2017, WOULD NOT BELIEVE HOW DIFFERENT THAT WHOLE AREA WAS. THAT SITE HE IS TALKING ABOUT WAS UNDER WATER. WE WERE IN A LITTLE BOAT TRYING TO GET TO OUR HOUSE. IT WAS COMPLETELY UNDER WATER. ANDS IN YOU ARE TRYING TO BUILD A TREE HOUSE, I AM NOT QUITE SURE HOW YOU CAN NOT TAKE DOWN TREES RIGHT THERE. YOU SAW THE PICTURE. IT IS FULL OF TREES AND I HAVE SEEN EAGLES ROOST THE TREES. PART OF THE AMBIENCE OF BEING THERE. I THINK THERE ARE MANY ISSUES HERE. THE NATURAL WATER SHED IS ANOTHER ONE. A LOT OF PEOPLE LOST THE BACK OF THEIR YARDS IN THE BIG NOR'EASTER BECAUSE ALL OF THE SURROUNDING AREAS AFTER THE RAIN. IT WAS LIKE TWO DAYS AFTER THE RAIN STOPPED ALL OF THE FLOODWATERS FROM THE REMAINING AREA WENT TO THE CREEK AND FLOODED THAT AREA. TOOK OUT THEIR BACKYARDS. A LOT TO CONSIDER HERE. AND I THINK IT IS MORE SAFETY AS WELL AS JUST CONSERVATORY. AND SO THAT -- THAT IS ALL I GOT TO SAY. [02:20:02] I HOPE YOU TAKE IT UNDER CONSIDERATION. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, MA'AM. ANYONE ELSE? OKAY. COME ON UP. >> HOW ARE YOU GUYS DOING. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. >> DAVID CARMEN, OLD FERRY ROAD. WHERE IT SAYS SITE ON THE MAP. DIRECTLY ACROSS. IF WE COULD, COULD YOU PUT UP THE MAP OF THE FLOODWAY. THAT THE ONE THAT SHOWS THE FLOOD WAY? OKAY. IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THAT, TO WE REALLY THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO BUILD MULTIPLE HOMES OR EVEN HAVE IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD MULTIPLE HOMES IN A FLOOD WAY? BECAUSE I AM 24 FEET ABOVE THE CREEK ON THE OTHER SIDE. AND I SAW WHAT WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE OVER THERE. AND IT WAS NOT HIGH AND DRY. IF HE WANTS TO BUILD A HOUSE FOR HIMSELF, I DON'T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. AT ALL. YOU WANT TO GIVE HIM A SINGLE-FAMILY DWELLING PERMIT OR BLESSING OR WHATEVER, I AM GOOD WITH THAT. HE CAN FIGHT THE CREEK JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE DOES. BUT TO STAND HERE AND SAY THAT WE ARE GOING TO GIVE HIM A MULTIPLE FAMILY OR MULTIPLE HOME SITE AND BLOCK THE FLOOD WAY? THAT IS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FLOOD WAY. THAT IS CALLED DEVIL'S ELBOW. WHEN IT FLOODS, IT CUTS ACROSS EVERYTHING AND IT FOR EVERYTHING UP WHEN IRMA CAME THROUGH HERE. I WANT TO SAY I DON'T THINK IT IS VERY SMART TO GRANT, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE HOME SEATS ON A FLOODWAY. I HAD A FRIEND OF MINE WHO WAS IN A FLOOD WAY, AND TOOK HIM THREE YEARS JUST TO GET A PERMIT JUST TO BUILD IN IT. AND HOPEFULLY WE DON'T DO IT. BUT IT IS HIS PROPERTY. IF HE WANTS TO BUILD ON IT, I APPLAUD IT. I AM GOOD WITH THAT. NOT JUST MULTIPLE HOMES. THANK YOU. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: I SAW SOMEONE ELSE IN THE BACK THERE. COME ON UP. >> AS MUCH HELLO, CHARLES SIMMS. I LIVE ON 3860 MAGNOLA STREET, MIDDLEBURGH, FLORIDA. I'M HERE TO ECHO SIMILAR CONCERNS. REMOVING CONSERVATION LAND FOR DEVELOPMENT SEEMS LIKE A BAD IDEA, A BAD PRECEDENT TO SET, ESPECIALLY SINCE -- IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT HAS BEEN A CONTINUAL THING IN CLAY COUNTY THROUGHOUT THE YEARS IS HAVING SOMETHING SET ASIDE FOR CONSERVATION AND AS THE YEARS PAST, REDUCING THAT FOR LAND DEVELOPMENT. THE PUBLIC SHOULD BE OUTRAGED. SETS A BAD PRECEDENT. I DO WANT TO NOTE THE IRE KNEE HERE. THE STREET IS NAMED AFTER THE MANATEE, AND WE ARE MOVING CONSERVATION AREA FROM IT? IT SEEMS A LITTLE SILLY TO YOU. YEAH, BACK TO THE -- JUST THE FLOOD PLAIN ARGUMENT. YOU KNOW, READING THROUGH THE PRIMARY CONSERVATION NETWORK POLICY, THE PRIMARY CONSERVATION NETWORK OVERLAY DISTRICT INCLUDES MOST CREEK AND MAINAGE DRAINAGE. AND HYDRIC OILS AND 100-YEAR FLOOD PLAN. SEEMS TO BE WITHIN THE DESCRIPTION OF THE PRIMARY CONSERVATION NETWORK, SO, YOU KNOW, I WOULD APPEAL TO YOU GUYS TO NOT GO AHEAD WITH THE REZONING JUST BASED ON THAT BECAUSE IT DOES MEET, YOU KNOW, THE INTENT OF THE CONSERVATION NETWORK. AND THEN -- ONE LAST THING HERE. I DID NOTICE JUST SURE -- LIKE MORE GENERAL CONSERVATION IN CLAY COUNTY, THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP FOR 2040 DOES HAVE SOME ADDED ENVIRONMENTAL EASEMENTS. SO I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR MORE FROM THE CITY COMMISSIONERS ABOUT THAT. KIND OF ALLEVIATE SOME OF OUR CONCERNS THAT THE PUBLIC HAVE ABOUT CONSERVATION, BECAUSE THERE DOES SEEM TO BE SOME SORT OF CONSERVATION EFFORTS GOING ON. I AM NOT SURE THAT THE PUBLIC KNOWS THAT MUCH ABOUT IT. I KNOW THAT NEXT TUESDAY THERE IS A MEETING, JANUARY 24, FROM 9 A.M. TO 11 A.M., TO HOLD A WORKSHOP TO DISCUSS THE CREATION OF A CONSERVATION LAND PROGRAM HELD ON THE FOURTH FLOOR -- SO I GUESS THIS FLOOR, BCC MEETING ROOM. IS THAT THIS MEETING ROOM? IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN THAT [02:25:02] JANUARY 24 FROM 9 TO 11 A.M. I WANT TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THAT COMING FROM THE CITY COMMISSIONERS TO KIND OF ALLEVIATE SOME OF OUR CONCERNS. BUT, YEAH, CERTAINLY WITH THIS -- I ACTUALLY LIVE ON A SIMILAR PIECE OF PROPERTY ON BLACK CREEK WHERE MY HOUSE IS ON FLOOD ZONE X WHICH IS NOT A FLOOD ZONE AND WETLANDS WHERE IT CONNECTS TO THE CREEK. IT WOULD BE A BEAUTIFUL PLACE TO BU BUILD. I AM NOT AS OUTRAGED AFTER HEARING FROM THE OWNER, BUT CERTAINLY IF WE ARE GOING TO CALL IT CONSERVATION LAND, I THINK WE SHOULD STICK WITH THAT. MIGHT BE NICE -- I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE HERE HAS CONNECTIONS TO THE NORTH FLORIDA LAND TRUST. THEY CAN BUY IT AND CONSERVE IT THAT WAY THROUGH PRIVATE OWNERSHIP. THAT MAY BE A POSSIBLE SOLUTION GOING FORWARD TO THIS. ANYWAY, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU, SIR. ANYONE ELSE? YES, SIR. >> MY NAME IS RAY TOMLIN, LIKE RICH, DIRECTLY -- THANK YOU FOR EXTENDING THE TIME. I THINK A LOT OF APPREHENSION THINKING THAT ALL THE GREEN WAS GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY, BUT I THINK THE GENTLEMAN IS LOOKING AT THE BROWN AREA. BUT I HAVE A CONFUSION IF I CAN ASK A QUESTION. YOU SAID YOU RECENTLY DID A REZONING ON THE FIRST FIVE LOTS, BUT THIS PARCEL WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THAT? >> CAN I EXPLAIN THAT TO YOU AFTERWARDS. >> OH, AFTERWARDS? >> WE WILL GET BACK TO THAT WHEN WE GO THROUGH THIS. >> IF I BOUGHT THE PROPERTY IN THAT TIME FREEWAY FRAME AND PUT A WELL AND ALL OF A SUDDEN I COULDN'T GET A BUILDING PERMIT, I WOULD BE OUTRAGED TOO. TO INCREASE THE ZONING FROM ONE HOUSE TO TEN ACRES WHICH I THOUGHT WAS TO THE MULTIPLE LEVEL. I DON'T KNOW THE NECESSITY -- I WAS CONFUSED ABOUT THAT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU. YES, MA'AM. YOU NEED TO COME BACK UP? OR -- KIND OF LETTING THIS TURN INTO A DEBATE. I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT SO NEED TO WRAP UP. >> I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN HEARD THROUGH THE RUMOR MILL OR WHAT HAVE YOU, BUT A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME, NOT A FAMILY COMPOUND, NOT AN AIRBNB. THIS IS A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME. WE PROBABLY WON'T EVEN BUILD A DOCK, ALTHOUGH WE HAVE GOTTEN A PERMIT TO BUILD A DOCK. THE ONLY OTHER THING WE MIGHT PUT IS A LITTLE GAZEBO, OKAY. BUT NOT GOING TO BE WHAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN HEARING ABOUT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: OKAY, THANK YOU. IF I DON'T SEE ANYBODY ELSE, I AM GOING TO CLOSE THIS PUBLIC HEARING I WANT TO ADDRESS THE GENTLEMAN'S QUESTION INITIALLY. I THINK MISS CARSON DID IT IN HER PRESENTATION AND I WILL TRY TO RECAP, IF I GET IT WRONG, YOU LET ME KNOW. WHEN THIS LITTLE SUBDIVISION PLATTED BACK IN 1999, THIS WAS PART OF IT. BUT SOMEHOW WHEN WE DID THE LAKE ASBURY MASTER PLAN. THIS GOT PUT IN AS COPPER IS VATION LAND. PROBABLY AN ADMINISTRATIVE ERROR AT THAT TIME. WE LOOKED AT THIS LAST MONTH -- LAST MONTH AND THE MONTH BEFORE, AND AND THE OTHER LOTS ON MANATEE ROAD THERE WERE -- THE LAND USE WAS CHANGED BECAUSE IT WAS PUT BACK TO WHAT IT PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN. THIS ISN'T THE FIRST MISTAKE BE MADE WHEN WE DID A LOT OF WIDESCALE LAND USE ZONING OVER THE YEARS. THIS PARCEL WAS SUBMITTED FROM THAT REQUEST BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT BASICALLY UNTIL A LANDOWNER CAME IN AND SAID WAIT A MINUTE. I AM PART OF THIS AS WELL. SO THIS IS A APPLICATION BY THE COUNTY TO FIX WHAT REALLY IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE ERROR. WE ARE NOT TRYING TO PROVIDE ANYBODY ANY ADDITIONAL RIGHTS. WE ARE TRYING TO FIX WHAT APPEARS TO BE AN ERROR. THAT HAPPENED AT THE TIME THAT LAKE ASBURY MASTER PLAN WAS CREATED. THE ZONING -- THE LAND USE WILL BE COMPATIBILITY WITH THE OTHER LOTS THAT ARE ALONG MANATEE POINT ROAD. DOES THAT ANSWER KIND OF -- OKAY. -- I HAD A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS THAT I WANTED. -- THAT CAME UP. [02:30:01] ONE OF IT WAS ACCORDING TO THE SURVEY THIS AREA THAT IS OUTLINED ON THE MAPS IS ACTUALLY UPLAND. IT MAY BE IN A FLOOD WAY, BUT ACCORDING TO SURVEYS IT IS BUILDABLE LAND. I GUESS YOU CAN GET FLOOD INSURANCE, BUT IT'S -- MISS CARSON STATED THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF HOMES PUT ON THIS PROPERTY IF IT WAS ALL SUBDIVIDED. I DON'T THINK THAT IS LIKELY TO HAPPEN. HOPEFULLY -- HOW MANY WAS IT, BETH? I THINK IT WAS FIVE, WASN'T IT? >>BETH CARSON: AVERAGE OF FIVE, YES. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: FIVE. BUT SOME REQUIREMENTS TO GET TO THE FIVE THE NOTIFICATION. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID THEY DIDN'T GET NOTE FEED. IT USED TO BE IN THE STAFF REPORT PICTURES OF THE SIGNS TO WE CAN SEE THAT THEY WERE ACTUALLY POSTED AND WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT FOR A LITTLE WHILE. SOME THAT USED TO BE IN THE STAFF REPORT. AND IS IT 300 OR 350 FEET? >> 350 FEET. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: IF YOUR PROPERTY IS WITHIN #00 FEET, YOU WILL GET A LETTER FROM THE COUNTY. IF YOU ARE WITHIN 350 FEET AND YOU DIDN'T GET A LETTER FROM THE COUNTY, YOU WANT TO CALL INTO THE ZONING DEPARTMENT AND FIND OUT WHY. NOW THOSE LETTER GOES TO WHOEVER THE TAX COLLECTOR OR THE PROPERTY APPRAISER SHOW IS THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY. AND WE HAD ISSUE BEFORE OF PEOPLE TO LIVE ON PROPERTY AND THE TECHNICAL OWNER -- AND THEY WILL GET THE LETTER. EAGLES NEST. STRICT RULES WHERE THERE IS EAGLES NEST. BUILDING A HOUSE NOT TOO FAR FROM ME. AND THERE IS A BIG SIGN IN THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY WHERE CONSTRUCTION IS GOING ON THAT SAYS EXACTLY WHAT THEY CAN DO AND NOT DO. BECAUSE THEY ARE A EAGLES NEST. AND THE LAST THING THAT I DID WANT TO MENTION AND WE TAKE A BEATING FOR IT SOMETIMES. BUT WE VOLUNTEER TO TAKE THE BEATING IS SOME OF THE STUFF THAT WE DO IS DICK STATED BY THE STATE, BY TALLAHASSEE. WE DON'T ALWAYS HAVE THE OPTIONS TO DO WHAT SEEMS LOGICAL, BUT THE PEOPLE WE ARE SENDING TO TALLAHASSEE IS THE ONE THAT IS TELLING US WE HAVE TO DO CERTAIN THINGS. I APOLOGIZE IF IT SEEMS A LITTLE IRRATIONAL, BUT THAT'S WHERE IT COMES FROM. OKAY. I THINK I MENTION THE ITEMS I WANT TO COVER. DO YOU GUYS HAVE COMMENTS? >> I DO, RALPH. DID ANYBODY LOOK AT SADSON'S REPORT FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT? >> I GOT IT. UNITS FOR THE AMENDED PROCEDURES APPROXIMATELY AND TALKS ABOUT SEVEN ELEMENTARY STUDENTS. ALL ZONED SCHOOLS CONCURRENCY RESERVATIONS ARE AT OR EXCEEDED CAPACITY. I THINK IF HE WAS HERE, HE WOULD BE LETTING US KNOW THERE IS NO ROOM FOR STUDENTS IF THEY WERE TO COME IN. AND A QUESTION THAT I HAVE FOR STAFF IS, WITH WHERE THE 27 DWELLING UNITS COME FROM IN FIVE POINT SOMETHING ACRE. >> BASED ON THE STRICT ACREAGE OF THE UPLAND AREA OF ALL OF THE BROWN INCLUDING THAT LITTLE STRIP THAT CAN'T BE BUILT ON OBVIOUSLY, BUT WE DO OUR DENSITY POPULATION BASED ON THE PERMITTED DENSITY IN MPC, THE FIVE UNITS PER ACRE TIMES THE 5.64 ACRES WHICH GIVES THE 27 UNITS WHICH IS INTO THE POTENTIALLY GOING TO BE BUILT. >> I AM NNOT -- I AM NOT QUESTIONING THAT. WHAT I AM QUESTIONING IS THE LANDOWNER SAYS WANT TO BUILD ONE HOUSE. IF WE APPROVE THIS, THINGS HAPPENED OVER THE YEARS AND RALPH AND I HAVE BEEN HERE A LONG TIME THAT THINGS HAVE A TENDENCY TO CHANGE. I AM A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. >> I WOULD SUGGEST THAT POSSIBLY BECAUSE THAT WAS CONTEMPLATED AS A FIVE-ACRE LOT -- A FIVE-ACRE SUBDIVISION. WHEN THE SEWER LINE WAS PUT IN, I WOULD ASSUME THE SEWER LANE TO ONLY SERVE FIVE LOTS. THEY WANT WANT TO PUT IN A SEWER LINE FOR WHAT WAS EXCESSIVE. >> INCLUDING THE OTHERS AS WELL? >> JUST THE FIVE INCLUDING THE SPLIT. >> THE SEWER FOR ONE DWELLING. >> IT'S -- IT IS A SEWER LINE THAT COMES IN AND SERVES ALL THE UN UNITS. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: I AM TALKING ABOUT THE SITE IN QUESTION NOW. [02:35:02] >> COMES DOWN TO THAT SITE. >> OKAY. >> TO BE EXTENDED. GOING BEYOND THE ONE LOT -- >> IT COULD BE EXTENDED IF THEY BUILD MULTIPLE LOTS. >> IT CAN BE EXTENDED BUT MIGHT NEED TO BE RESIZED BECAUSE ONLY SERVE A CERTAIN QUANTITY AND IT WILL BE ENLARGED. >> ALL THE WAY UP TO HENLEY THEN. >> IT WOULD BE A ROAD. I SEE LANGUAGE LIKE THIS, MAKES ME A LITTLE NERVOUS. I I HAVE FRIENDS THAT LIVE UP THE CREEK IN THE NORTH BANK AND WHEN IRMA CAME THROUGH, THEIR HOUSE WAS COMPLETELY OVER THE TOP OF THE ROOF IN THE MAIN STREET AREA. IF THEY GOT THAT MUCH WATER UP THERE, THIS CORNER ALMOST HAD TO REACH CAPACITY FOR THE FLOOD PLAIN. THAT IS A CONCERN TO ME AS WELL. IF WE ARE GOING TO PUT HOMES IN THERE, ALLOW PEOPLE TO MR. HOUSES -- >> YOU NEED TO CONVINCE US, NOT HER. >> I AM SAYING -- I AM NOT REAL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: YOU HAVE SOMETHING? >> YES, SIR. FIRST OFF, AS I UNDERSTAND IT PART OF THE TO ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT. TO DENY THE HOMEOWNER, THE PROPERTY OWNER THE RIGHTS TO A PROPERTY HE PAYS TAXES ON DOESN'T SIT WELL WITH ME QUITE FRANKSLY. WHAT PROTECTIONS CAN WE PUT IN PLACE -- CAN WE PUT ANY PROTECTIONS IN PLACE THAT LIMIT HIM TO ONLY BUILD -- OR THEM TO ONLY BUILDING A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME ON THAT PROPERTY SO WE LEND THE ABILITY TO DO ANYTHING ELSE AN AIRBNB. OR ANY OF THESE OTHER CONCERNS THAT POTENTIALLY HAVE BEEN RAISED SINCE THE PROPERTY OWNER ALREADY SAID THAT THEY ARE ONLY GOING TO BUILD A SINGLE FAMILY HOME. ANY PROTECTIONS WE CAN PUT IN PLA PLACE? >> I AM CHECKING WITH THE EXPERTS HERE. >> THAT IS TRUE. BECAUSE THIS IS ONE PARCEL INCLUDING THE GREEN. ONLY ONE HOUSE, ONE RESIDENCE PER PARCEL. IF HE WANTED TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE LOT, WE HAVE TO SUBDIVIDE IT. IF HE SUB DIVIDES TO THREE PARCELS, THIS WILL BE A FULL SUBDIVISION AND WILL HAVE TO MEET THE SUBDIVISION REQUIREMENTS AND PLAT AND ALL THAT. >> YOU CAN PUT TWO HOUSE ON ONE PARCEL, YOU CAN'T EVEN DO THAT? >> CORRECT. YOU CAN NOT. ONLY ONE HOUSE. >> YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE PARCEL AND ONE RESIDENCE ON IT? >> CORRECT. >> WHERE IS THE CHECKPOINT THAT IT CAN BE SUBDIVIDED? WHO GETS TO SAY YES OR NO ON THAT? >> BASED ON THE LAND USE THAT HE WILL HAVE, THE RIGHT, THE ENTITLEMENT FOR MULTIPLE PARCELS, BUT HE WOULD HAVE TO SUBDIVIDE AND HAVE TO IMPROVE THE PROPERTY INCLUDING EVERYTHING TO THE PROPERTY. SO -- >> SOMEBODY HAS TO -- SO YOU ARE SAYING WITH THAT ZONING. >>. LAND USE COAT. >> TURNING IT POTENTIALLY FIVE LOTS. >> ANYBODY THAT HAS THE MPC CAN POTENTIALLY TURN IT INTO THAT HIGH DENSITY UNIT. >> SO, AGAIN, I GO BACK TO MY QUESTION AND THAT IS WHAT -- WHAT CAN BE DONE IN ADDITION TO OR IN LIEU OF AND PROTECT THE CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED AND GIVE THE OWNER WHAT THE OWNER IS PAID FOR. QUITE FRANKLY THE OWNER -- AND HAS RIGHTS TO THE PROPERTY. THIS ISN'T CHINA. WE HAVE -- PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS TO THEIR PROPERTY. AND I AM JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADDRESS, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED AND STILL GIVE THE OWNER THE ABILITY TO DO WHAT THEY DO ON THE PROPERTY. >> I THINK THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO IS A PUD. WITH A PUD, THEY HAVE TO GET A DESCRIPTION WHAT IS ON THE PROPERTY. >> BRANNANFIELD. ALL OF IT IS A PUD. >> SO WE HAVE AT LEAST IN ONE OTHER INSTANCE UP TO THE PROPERTY OWNER WHETHER THEY WOULD AGREE TO DO IT. WE HAVE A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. >> COULD YOU SAY THAT AGAIN? HE DIDN'T HEAR YOU. >>INSTANCE WHERE THE PROPERTY OWN WILL INCIDENT NEAR A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE COUNTY THAT WILL REQUIREMENT YOUR ABILITIES ON THE PROPERTY. >> ALLOW YOU TO BUILD ONE HOUSE, BUT ONE HOUSE ONLY. >> CAN I ASK A QUESTION, COURTNEY? WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY DECIDE TO TRANSFER TITLE TO SOMEONE ELSE? >> THE ONE THAT WE DONE PREVIOUSLY RUNS WITH THE LANDING. >> SO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TH [02:40:17] THAT. >> THE HOMEOWNER, VICKI. >> IS IT VICKI? CAN YOU COME UP HERE FOR A MIN MINUTE. YOU DON'T NEED TO GET UP. I KNOW YOU HAVE APPROXIMATE. THIS IS THE COUNTY ATTORNEY. WHAT SHE IS SAYING IS THAT YOU -- IN -- IN THAT AREA WE CAN DO A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, WHICH IS BASICALLY JUST A -- NOT MUCH MORE THAN A LETTER BUT AN AGREEMENT THAT AS A PROPERTY OWNER YOU SIGNED IT. AND THE COUNTY SIGNS IT. WOULD LIMIT YOU TO ONE DWELLING UNIT. IF -- YOU ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO DO THAT, BUT IF THAT WOULD ALLEVIATE A LOT OF CONCERNS, IT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER. IS THAT YOUR DAD? YOU PROBABLY NEED TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT THAT. YOU DON'T NEED TO DECIDE RIGHT NOW AND WE WILL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION BUT THIS IS GOING TO GO TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS NEXT WEEK. SO YOU MIGHT WANT TO THINK ABOUT IT. AND IF YOU IT SHALL IF YOU WERE AGREEABLE TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT. GET IN TOUCH WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY. WOULD SHE CONTACT YOU, COURTNEY? GO IMMUNIZATION GRIMM CONTACT BETH CARSON. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THAT MY -- >> WHEN THE LOT WAS SOLD TO MY DAD, I AM SURE WE HAVE SOMETHING IN WRITING THAT SAYS IT COULD BE SUBDIVIDED TO A FAMILY MEMBER? NO, NO, I AM NOT TRYING TO COMPLICATE IT, IT SAID SOMETHING THAT A FAMILY MEMBER COULD BUILD ANOTHER DWELLING. WE DON'T WANT THAT. WE DON'T WANT THAT. MY DAD IS GOING TO BE UPSET WITH ME THAT I EVEN SAID THAT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: COME ON, WE ARE TRYING TO HEAR WHAT IS GOING ON. >> I AM SAYING WITH LEGALITY SAKES, WOULD THAT SUPERSEDE ANYTHING? >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THAT IS THE DISCUSSION YOU WANT TO TALK WITH THE ATTORNEY. >> WE WANT A SINGLE-FAMILY DWELLING. I WANT TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T GET MUCKED UP. THAT'S ALL. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. IF NOT, IT IS CLOSED NOW. DISCUSSION AND A MOTION. >> CAN I CLARIFY THAT AS THE APPLICATION IS PRESENTED, IF IT WERE TO GO FORWARD AS IT IS PRESENTED TONIGHT, WHOEVER THE PROPERTY OWNER IS WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO SUBDIVIDE THAT PARCEL INTO FIVE LOTS. >> YES. THEY WE HAVE PROCESS TO GO TO COULD HAPPEN. YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING, MR. BOURRE. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: I WILL MAKE A MOTION WHEN YOU ARE READY. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: I AM READY. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE STAFF'S REPORT CONTINGENT ON -- AND THE FIRST TIME WE MADE A MOTION THAT INCLUDED THIS, SO PLEASE CORRECT ME, MADAM ATTORNEY. MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE STAFF'S REPORT CONTINGENT ON ENTERING A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE COUNTY THAT CONFINES THE DEVELOPMENT TO ONE SINGLE FAMILY HOME ON THAT -- ON THAT PROPERTY. ON THAT PARCEL. THAT IS MY MOTION. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THAT IS YOUR MOTION. ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT, MR. -- ANZALONE SECONDED IT. I THINK THIS PROPERTY BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY IN GOOD FAITH THAT HE COULD BUILD ON IT. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WANTS TO SEE A SUBDIVISION ON IT, SO I WOULD CERTAINLY SUPPORT THAT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, YES IT IS CONSERVATION LAND BUT I THINK IT IS THERE IMPROPERLY. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TTIME THI ONE IS PARTICULARLY SENSITIVE BECAUSE OF ITS LOCATION. I HAVE BEEN ON THIS BOARD A NUMBER OF YEARS AND I HAVE SEEN THIS HALF A DOZEN TIMES BECAUSE WE HAD TO GO BACK BECAUSE WE MADE AN ERROR IN THE COUNTY RECORDS AND FIX IT WHICH IS PROBABLY WHERE THE ORIGINAL -- OR THE ORIGIN OF THIS PROBLEM IS. SO WITH THAT, I WILL CALL THE QUESTION. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOST, STATE AYE. ANY OPPOSED. >>NAY. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: HOW MANY PEOPLE DO WE HAVE -- 6-1, COURTNEY, WITH BO VOTING NO. OKAY. THE BCC HAS IN THIS ONE NEXT [02:45:03] WEEK, NEXT TUESDAY, 5:00. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE ANOTHER ITEM. >> THE BOARD WANT TO KEEP OUR PICTURE AND USE THE -- >> WHERE IS IT. YOU CAN HAVE IT BACK. WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT IT. I DIDN'T MEAN TO KIND OF APPROPRIATE IT. >> THAT'S ALL RIGHT. GLAD IT GOT LOOKED APPEAR. WE ARE GOING TO TAKE FOR THE BOARD IF ANYBODY NEEDS A QUICK REST BREAK, FIVE MINUTES AND DO THIS LAST ITEM. RIGHT, WE ARE D NUMBER 4. WOW. OKAY. WE ARE GOING TO COME BACK INTO SESSION HERE, PEOPLE. [4.  Public Hearing to consider CPA-2022-20 and PCD-2022-12. (District 5, Comm. Burke) (D. Selig)] SO -- WE ARE GOING TO ITEM NUMBER 4, WHICH IS A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER CPA-2022-20 AND PCD-2022-12. AND MISS SELIG. YOU HAVE THAT. >>DODIE SELIG: I DO. THIS PROPERTY IS ON THE CORNER -- SOUTHEAST CORNER OF 315 AND FUZZY LANE IN THE GREEN COVE. A SINGLE PARCEL. JUST OVER SIX AND A QUARTER ACRES. THE FUTURE LAND USE CHANGE WILL CHANGE THE DESIGNATION FROM RURAL FRINGE TO COMMERCIAL. AND THE REZONING WILL CHANGE THE DESIGNATION FROM AR TO PCD WHICH IS PLANNED COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT. THE PROPERTY IS IN THE HATCH ON THE LEFT. AND IN THE YELLOW BOX ON THE RIGHT. THE EXISTING FUTURE LAND USES ON THE LEFT. YOU CAN SEE THE RURAL FRINGE AND ON THE RIGHT IS THE PROPOSED COMMERCIAL. AND THE EXISTING ZONING ON THE LEFT IS THE GREEN AR AND ON THE RIGHT SHOWS THE PROPOSED PLANNED COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT. AND THIS IS THE SITE PLAN THAT IS EXHIBIT C IN THE REZONING -- IN THE PCD LAYING OUT THE EXISTING POND ON THE NORTHEAST PORTION OF THE PARCEL AND A DRIVE AREA WITH PARKING SPACES. THE FUTURE LAND USE POLICY 1.482, WHICH IS THE UNIFIED PLAN, THIS IS A COMPANY THAT IS A -- A COMPREHENSIVE POLICY THAT BE TALKED ABOUT IN THE LAST MEETING THE INNOCENT IS TO CONSOLIDATE ON ROAD INTERSECTIONS ON HIGHER CLASSIFICATION AND NOT HAVE STRIP DEVELOPMENT THAT IS UNRELATED TO SURROUNDINGS. SO THAT APPLICATION -- THAT POLICY REQUIRES THAT APPLICATIONS ARE LIMITED AS I SAY TO AN ARTERIAL OR MAJOR COLLECT OTHER MINOR COLLECT THEIR THEY PROVIDE ADDITIONAL DEPTH TO 10 ACRES, CONSOLIDATED PARCEL AND THAT IT EITHER BE A PUD OR PDC WITH SHARED ACCESS, SIGNAGE AND INFRASTRUCTURE. THE APPLICANT SHOULD HAVE THE SHARED ACCESS INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN WITH THE PARCEL IMMEDIATELY TO THE SOUTH THAT IS WILLIS SPRINGS NORTH PUD. I WILL BACK UP TO THE MAP HERE AND CATHEDRAL OAKS PARKWAY. THE PARCEL PROPOSED CHANGE MEETS A LOT OF THE INTENT OF THAT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN POLICY, BUT THE PARCEL TECHNICALLY OWNERSHIP TO THE PARCEL IMMEDIATELY TO THE SOUTH. SO STAFF WAS SUGGESTING THAT THEY WORK WITH THAT PROPERTY OWNER TO CREATE THE MISSING PIECE OF THAT UNIFIED PLAN REQUIREMENT. [02:50:04] BUT STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF CPA-2022-20 AND PCD-2022-12. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS ONE? >> I HAVE A COUPLE, BUT LET ME WAIT. PUNXSUTAWNEY PUBLGZ THE APPLICANT. >> MARK SCRUBBIE. THIS IS -- WE ARE DOING THIS TOGETHER AS THE -- AS THE PLAN AMENDMENT AND THE PCD? >> YES. >> SO THIS KIND OF EVOLVED. THIS BEGAN -- WE TOOK A LOOK AT THIS PROPERTY AND INFILL BEING RIGHT UP AGAINST THE ACRE OF COMMERCIAL FOR WILLOW SPRINGS NORTH THAT YOU ALL DID AND TO OUR SOUTHWEST IS 42 ACRES OF PCD AS WELL. SO WE WERE INTENDING TO START OUT WITH USES THAT WERE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE IN THE WILLOW SPRINGS NORTH PCD. BEFORE WE FILED, WE MET WITH THE COMMUNITY -- THE FUZZY LANE COMMUNITY WHOM I KNEW. SOME OF THEM WORKED IN CLAY COUNTY. ROBBY THOMPSON WHO IS YOUR CARD THERE, HE WAS HERE AND WITH AS GOING TO SPEAK TO THIS BUT HE CAME UP TO ME AND HE SAID, I WILL TRY TO COME TO THE COUNTY COMMISSION MEETING. HE GOT KIND OF WORN OUT FROM -- >> DO YOU KNOW IF HE WAS FOR OR AGAINST. >> HE WAS FOR. BUT LET ME EXPLAIN. WHAT HAPPENED WAS WE WENT IN AND EXPLAINED WHAT THE USES WERE. AND THEY WERE PRETTY MUCH CONSISTENT WITH THE USES FOR WILLOW SPRINGS NORTH. AND ADDED IN RV BOAT STORAGE FOR A MAJOR COLLECTOR AFTER WE MET WITH THE COMMUNITY, THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, WE LIKE THE IDEA OF OUR -- OF OUR RV BOAT STORAGE. IT IS A -- IT IS A VERY LOW INTENSITY USE. WE ARE OKAY WITH THAT. BUT WE PREFER NOT TO HAVE ANY OTHER USES THERE. SO IT EVOLVED FROM BEING A MULTIUSE PROPOSAL TO A VERY SINGULAR USE. AND THAT IS WHAT WE PUT IN OUR APPLICATION WAS THE SINGLE USE RV BOAT STORAGE. YOU HAVE A SITE PLAN THAT SHOWS YOU WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. BUT WE ARE -- WE ARE REALLY WRAPPED AROUND -- WHAT IS WRAPPING AROUND US IS WILLOW SPRINGS NORTH. SO WE ARE TRYING TO PUT -- THIS IS -- THIS IS WHAT JOHN -- WHAT JOHN FAGAN IS THE OWNER. AND THIS IS KIND OF HIS AMBITION IS TO HAVE A SERIES OF POET STORAGE AND RV STORAGE FACILITIES. IF YOU LOOK AT THE AREA THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH, THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF NEW, MODERN-STYLE SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT TO THE AND WE HAVE ALL THAT MAGNOLIA WEST. IF YOU GO OUT TO THE EXPRESSWAY, YOU HAVE TONS MORE OF THAT. THESE ARE NEW MODERN SUBDIVISIONS THAT DON'T LET YOU STORE YOUR BOAT. DON'T LET YOU STORE YOUR RV, SO THIS SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD SPOT AS WE FIGURED IT FOR THAT KIND OF USE. WE ARE VERY CLOSE TO THE FIRST COAST CONNECTOR WHICH, AS YOU KNOW, FROM REMEMBERING WILLOW SPRINGS NORTH COMES OUT FROM 315, FROM U.S. 17. AND THEN GOES THROUGH WILLOW SPRINGS NORTH. THERE YOU GO. YOU CAN SEE IT THERE AND YOU CAN SEE HOW IT CARVES THROUGH THERE. THIS PROPERTY IS -- I KIND OF EYEBALL IT WITH A SCALE. I AM THINKING THINKING IT IS ABOUT 535 FEET FROM -- FROM THAT EXPRESSWAY. OR FROM THE CONNECTOR. FROM THE CONNECTOR WITH WHICH WILL BE A MAJOR ROAD. WE ALSO UNDERSTAND AND I GUESS THIS IS SUBJECT TO SOME ENGINEERING THAT THAT 315 AS IT IS CURRENTLY CONFIGURED ON THE [02:55:10] NORTH SIDE AS IT MEETS WITH THE FIRST COAST COLLECTOR WILL BE BLOCKED. BLOCKED OFF SO PEOPLE CAN'T TRY TO GAIN THE INTERSECTION AND COMING THROUGH THE CONNECTOR TO TRY TO GO UP 315 NORTH AND THEN EAST AND JUMP THROUGH THE TRAFFIC -- TO TRY TO BEAT THE TRAFFIC AND THEY ARE NOT GOING TO LET HIM DO THAT. REALLY THE ONLY WAY IN AND OUT OF HERE IS GOING TO BE FROM THE SOUTH -- THE NORTH-SOUTH LEG DOWN TO THE FIRST COAST CONNECTOR. SO THIS IS GOING TO BE A VERY QU QUIET, LOW INTENSE USE -- GOING TO BE LARGELY AUTOMATED. SOME ON-SITE ACTIVITY, BUT LARGELY AUTOMATED WITH A GATE ENTRANCE. I IT'S. THE HOLD HOMESTEAD, THEY HAD A WORKING DAIRY THERE. AND ALL OF THAT SARASOTA SPRINGS AND -- WHERE THE SILOS WERE, THAT WAS THERE. THEIR DAIRY. THAT IS OUR OBJECTIVE HERE. I WILL GO INTO MORE DETAIL WITH THIS. WHETHER WE CAN GET ACCESS THROUGH THE WILLOW SPRINGS NORTH, THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN. I AM KIND OF SKEPTICAL OF THAT. BUT WE CAN'T SEE A REAL -- ANOTHER USE FOR IT THAT IS REALLY PRACTICAL GIVEN ITS PROXIMITY OF COMMERCIAL. LET'S SEE IF I HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO OFFER YOU THAT IS WHAT ROBBY THOMPSON WAS GOING TO COME IN AND SAY THAT THEY WERE OKAY WITH THAT USE. I THINK THAT COVERED. MENTIONED THE INFILL RULE. SO STAFF HAS RECOMMENDED APPROVAL. AND ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? >> OR IF YOU HAVE ANY FOR JOHN. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY, ALL RIGHT, MARK. THANK YOU. I AM GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. I GUESS OUR ONE CARD HAD TO LEAVE. NOBODY ELSE. I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND BRING IT BACK. MARK, I ACTUALLY DID HAVE A QUESTION. SO YOU THINK MOST OF THE ACCESS TO THIS IS GOING TO BE FROM THE -- FROM -- WHAT DO THEY CALL IT CATHEDRAL OAK PARKWAY. >> IS THAT WHAT WE ARE CALLING IT -- CAN I COME AROUND? >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO HEAR YOU, BUT THAT'S OKAY. >> THAT'S OKAY. WE WILL POINT IT OUT. WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT THAT -- AT LEAST OUR UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THIS IS WHERE IT WILL BE. YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO GO THIS WAY OR THIS WAY, YOU WILL HAVE TO GO HERE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING. VERY GOOD. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? IF NOT, I MEAN -- >> I WOULD LIKE TO ASK STAFF A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: GO AHEAD, MR. BOURRE. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: DODIE, I KNOW THIS ROAD. I DRIVE DOWN IT TWICE A DAY. I AM GLAD THEY ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY THAT HOUSE LOOKS ALL OF NOW. THEY HAVE RVS AND BOATS AND STACKED UP ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND PLIGHTED THAT WHOLE CORNER. I AM GLAD TO SEE THEY ARE WANTING TO DO SOMETHING, ALTHOUGH I HAVE A CONCERN. SO THIS -- THISND AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THIS DOESN'T MEET THE REQUIREMENT OF TEN ACRES. THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO ACQUIRE AND DO SOME SORT OF A JOINT AGREEMENT WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER TO THE SOUTH IN ORDER TO MEET THAT REQUIREMENT. IS THAT CORRECT? >> A LITERAL INTERPRETATION THAT THEY ARE SIX ACRE, NOT TEN. >> THAT IS THE STANDARD WE SET FOR THESE -- FOR EVERYBODY ELSE. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE -- WE ARE ADHERING TO THAT AND NOT CHANGING IT. >> THE THERE IS THE PARCEL TO THE SOUTH IS 13 ACRES WORTH OF COMMERCIAL. [03:00:04] AND THAT PIECE DOESN'T MAKE AS MUCH SENSE AS AGRICULTURAL RESIDENTIAL AS A SINGLE-FAMILY WHEN ABUTS A VERY HEAVILY COMMERCIALED CORNER WHERE WE HAVE GOT, YOU KNOW, PDC ON THE OTHER. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT. I WOULD RATHER SEE AN AGREEMENT ALREADY IN PLACE BETWEEN THAT PROPERTY OWNER AND THIS AS PART OF THE APPLICATION. AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IT DOESN'T MEET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS. THE SECOND QUESTION IS THE MAJOR ARTERIAL ROADWAY. NOT THERE YET. GOING TO BE THERE DOWN THE ROAD BUT NOT THERE YET. NOT GOING TO MEET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS OF THOSE TWO THAT ARE HUGE. >> THE APPLICANT HAS REQUESTED IN THE PCD THE LANGUAGE TO REMOVE THAT REQUIREMENT FOR THAT PARTICULAR USE. BECAUSE NORMALLY, RV BOAT STORAGE DOES REQUIRE YOU TO BE IN A HIGHER -- >> I WANT TO REMIND EVERYBODY THAT THE BATTLE WE JUST GOT INTO A COUPLE OF MONTHS AUTOING ABOUT RV BOAT STORAGE AND MAKING SPECIAL ALLOCATIONS WHEN IT DIDN'T CONFORM. I HAVE A CONCERN. THE LAST QUESTION I HAVE FOR YOU IS -- IS 315, AS IT MAKES THE TURN AND GOES UP THE HILL. YOU PASS THE SILOS. MY UNDERSTAND SOMETHING THAT IS FOUR -- THAT WILL BE -- THAT IS ALL TWO LABOR RIGHT NOW. BUT EVENTUALLY EXPANDED PAST THAT POINT AND THEN GO RIGHT BACK TO A TWO-LANE AGAIN. NO PLAN TO IMPROVE THAT FOR A FOUR LANE ALL THE WAY TO 16. IS THAT THE CASE? >>DODIE SELIG: NO. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: ARE YOU SURE? >>DODIE SELIG: A PLAN FOR 315. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: ONLY PARTIALLY DOWN THAT ROAD. I AM JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. WE TALKED ABOUT THIS -- WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO AND I ASKED THE SAME WE, AND THE ONLY QUESTION IS HALFWAY DOWN 315 AND STOPPED AND WENT TO TWO LANE. FOR THAT REASON I HAVE -- I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF CONCERNS. I WANT TO SEE SOMETHING HAPPEN TO THAT CORNER. SOMETHING NEEDS TO HAPPEN. IT NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP, NUMBER ONE. I HAVE A CONCERN OF THIS. I THINK IT IS PREMATURE. NOT A BAD USE IF THEY GET THE ADDITIONAL LAND BUT I THINK IT IS PREMATURE. I APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS. >> I THINK I MIGHT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH 315. 315, WHERE IT APPROACHES 16, THE -- IT -- IT EVENTUALLY IS GOING -- IT GOES LIKE THIS RIGHT NOW WITH -- NEXT TO THE FAIRGROUNDS. WHAT ROAD IS THAT? >> 16. >> NO, THE OTHER ONE SPRING -- >> SPRING BANK. >> LIKE THIS. THEY ARE GOING TO MOVE 315 TOO COME INTO PRING BANK. DIRECT INTO IT. BUT THAT PIECE OF THE ROAD IS ON THAT BUSINESS PART THAT IS ON THE CORNER. AND IT IS THE DEVELOPER -- I THINK R HINEHOLT THAT HAS TO BUILD THE PIECE OF RIORDAN. THAT MIGHT BE WHILE YOU ARE THINKING NOT ALL THE WAY TO 16. >> COULD BE. OKAY. >> CAN I JUST ADD A LITTLE MORE TO THAT. WE PROBABLY TOLD YOU WRONG. DODIE WILL SAYS THERE NO AT RAN. RALPH IS CORRECT. WHEN THAT GREEN COVE SPRINGS BY PASS COMES IN, WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT IS. IF SOMETHING CHANGES PRIOR TO THAT, IF MORE DEVELOPMENT COMES IN THERE, THEY WILL HAVE TO DO REQUIREMENTS TO DO ADDITIONS AND TO INCLUDE MAYBE FOUR-LANING IT. BUT ONE DAY IT IS IN THAT PLAN. WE JUST -- >> AGAIN, THAT KIND OF BRINGS ME BACK TO THE. IT IS PREMATURE. NONE OF THE ARTERIAL ROADWAY IS THERE. AND I HAVE A CONCERN. IF WE ARE GOING TO PENNED ON THIS, THEN WE HAVE TO BEND ON EVERYTHING THAT COMES AFTER THIS. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE SETTING THE RIGHT PRECEDENT. THAT'S ALL. >> CAN I MAKE A COMMENT? >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: GO AHEAD, MR. SCUBBIE. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT THE COUNTY IS UNDER CONTRACT -- ARE YOU UNDER CONTRACT TO EXTEND 315 OUT TO HANDLE THE FIRST COAST CONNECTOR? ALL THE WAY TO -- >> 17? >> YES. >> SO, I MEAN, IT IS NOT THERE NOW, BUT IT IS UNDER CONTRACT TO BE -- TO BE DONE. >> THAT WILL BE THIS PIECE GOING OUT TO 17. >> AND THE SECOND THING IS UNDER THE COMP PLAN, I DIDN'T DISCUSS THIS WITH STAFF BEFORE, BUT THE WAY THE PLAN READS IT SAYS AND HIS OR HER UNIFIED PLAN AND IT [03:05:06] THE INFILL AS THE UNIFIED PLAN FOR DEVELOPMENT. I WOULD CONTEND THAT WE ARE IN THE "OR" SITUATION HERE WHERE WE MEET THE INFILL ALTHOUGH I AGREE WE DON'T HAVE TEN ACRES. AND I THINK IT IS UNLIKELY THAT WE ARE GOING TO GET TEN ACRES. I CAN'T IF I CAN FIX THAT PROBLEM. BUT I THINK WE COMPLY WITH THE INFILL REQUIREMENTS AND I WOULD ANTICIPATE THIS AS GIVING THE "OR" OPTION. THAT'S JUST ME. >> MRS. GRIMM. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT THERE IS AN "OR" OPTION? >> WHAT IS THE "OR" OPTION. >> I GUESS THAT IT IS LESS THAN TEN ACRES. >> WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING THE RULE? >> I AGREE. >> HERE IS WHAT IT SAYS. IT SAYS AMENDMENTS TO DESIGNATE. THIS IS POLICY 1.4.8. AMENDMENTS TO DESIGNATE LAND USE ON THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND SMALL SCALE AMENDMENTS PURSUANT TO THE STATUTE SHALL BE FURTHER LIMITED TO THOSE MEETING THE LANDFILL AND OR THE UNIFIED PLAN CRITERIA FALLING. AND PARAGRAPH ONE IS INFILL. PARAGRAPH TWO IS THE UNIFIED PLAN. SO MY CONCESSION IS THAT WE DO COMPLY BECAUSE WE ARE AND/OR. I DON'T THINK YOU CAN INTERPRET AT LEAST FROM A LAND USE DIDN'T. YOU CAN'T ANTICIPATE THE CODE IF IT MAY BE SUBJECT TO MULTIPLE INTERPRETATIONS. YOU HAVE TO INTERPRET IT IN THE LESSON OF THE LANDOWNER FROM THAT SPOT RIGHT THERE. IF THERE IS SOME POSSIBLE -- AND OR, IF IT SAYS "AND" THEN, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND YOUR ARGUMENT. BUT WHEN IT SAYS AND/OR, I THINK I GET THE BENEFIT OF THE "OR". THAT'S JUST ME. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: ARE YOU DONE. >>COMMISSIONER BOURRE: YES. >> MR. GARRISON. >>COMMISSIONER GARRISON: A LONG NIGHT. CONGRATULATIONS. THANK YOU FOR RECALLING THAT IT IS TEN ACRES. THAT COMPLETELY WENT OVER MY HEAD. LET ME ALSO SAY I READ THIS REPORT THREE TIMES. NOWHERE IN THIS REPORT DOES IT SAY THAT. SAYS SIX ACRES. CURIOUS OF THE TEN FOOT ELEVATION. NOT MY PROBLEM, YOUR PROBLEM. BUT I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE FACT THAT THERE IS A RULE THAT WE ARGUE ABOUT VEHEMENTLY TO COME UP WITH THE TEN-ACRE MINIMUM AND GOES BACK TO WHAT THE FOLKS WERE SAYING EARLIER. SO HERE WE HAVE A RULE. AND A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE SAYS WHEN THERE IS A RULE, THE FIRST QUESTION PEOPLE IS ASK IS, THERE IS A RULE, HOW DO WE GET AROUND IT. AND LEADS TO THE SKEPTICISM OF THE FOLKS THAT COME IN HERE, THE CITIZENS. HERE WE HAVE THIS RULE THAT IS TEN ACRES AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE MARK EXPLAIN IT A LITTLE BETTER. THE AND OR. IF IT IS AND, I HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULE AND IF IT IS AND/OR, I DON'T HAVE TO POLL THE RULE. WHAT IS THE -- WE MIGHT AS WELL RUBBER STAMP -- >> YOU HAVE TO COMPLY WITH ONE OR THE OTHER. ONE OR THE OTHER. IT MAKES SENSE TO ME. I WASN'T HERE FOR YOUR DEBATE OVER THE TEN ACRES. >> YOU WERE PART OF THIS WHOLE THING OF RV STORAGE AND ALL THAT STUFF. >> NOT THE TEN-ACRE RULE. >> I DON'T -- I THINK YOU WERE HERE. I THINK THAT WAS PART OF ONE OF YOUR APPLICANTS AND THE WHOLE THING WITH THE MAY JOR THOROUGHFARE. IT IS NOT IN PLACE -- I GET IT IS UNDER CONTRACT. I DON'T KNOW, TO ME, I HAVE A HARD TIME. I REALLY DON'T CARE. I MEAN, IT IS WHATEVER, BUT IF WE ARE GOING TO LET THIS ONE GO, THEN LET'S CHANGE IT TO A FIVE-ACRE MINIMUM. LET'S JUST DON'T -- AT SOME POINT, WE HAVE TO HAVE RULES. >> LET ME JUST REMIND PART OF THE REASON WE HAD THE RULES THAT WE HAD ADEQUATE BUFFERING AROUND IT SO WE WEREN'T BUILDING SOME -- IN FACT SOME OF THE PROPERTY THAT YOU REFERENCED ON 17 DURING THAT DEBATE THAT LOOKED LIKE SHAMBLES. >> MULTIPLE PARCELS. >> THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO ADDRESS THAT BY MAKING SURE THERE WAS ENOUGH PROPERTY TO PUT ONE OF THESE VEHICLES ON AND PROPERLY BUFFER IT, LANDSCAPE IT. [03:10:02] >> SORRY, IT CAUGHT ME WHEN YOU SAID THAT. HOLY COW. WHAT ARE WE DOING? ANY WAY, THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS. I WOUL APPRECIATE IT -- IF THERE IS A RULE IN PLACE AND THE APPLICANT IS GOING TO ASK FOR AN EXCEPTION OR THE AND/OR KIND OF ARGUMENT. TOUGH TO REMEMBER EVERY SINGLE REQUIREMENT AND NOWHERE IN HERE DOES IT SAY NOT MEETING THE MINIMUM. I LOOKED AT HERE -- >> MAY I INTERCEPTION ONE MORE TIME. I AM NOT ASKING FOR AN EXCEPTION TO THE RULE. THAT IS NOT WHAT I AM ASKING FOR. I AM ASKING FOR A BENEFIT OF THE INTERPRETATION WHERE "OR" APPEARS BETWEEN THOSE TWO WORDS. I UNDERSTAND "AND" IS THERE AS WELL, BUT THE "OR" IS THE PART I HAVE THE BENEFIT OF OR IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. IT DOESN'T MEAN THINKING. "OR" HAS TO BE DISJUNCTIVE IN THIS SENSE TO ME. YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT THE "OR" HAS NO MEANING. IF YOU ARE TELLING ME THE "OR" HAS NO MEANING AND "AND" ONLY THEN I DON'T HAVE AN ARGUMENT TO MAKE AT THAT POINT. I AM NOT ASKING FOR AN EXCEPTION, I AM ASKING FOR THAT SECTION OF THE PLAN TO BE INTERPRETED IN THE DISJUNCTIVE. I SAY IN LAND USE, THE TIE GOES TO THE RUNNER. >> I GET ALL OF THAT. THE LEGAL ARGUMENT IS GOING OVER MY HEAD? >> WHICH SECTION. >> 174.8. AND YOU ARE SAYING THAT -- >> YES. >> WHICH ONE IS IT, DODIE? >>DODIE SELIG: WELL, IT'S NOT -- >> WE ARE INFILL. >> RIGHT, BUT SAYS FOR INFILL IT SAYS BETWEEN FIRST -- >> WELL, I DON'T HAVE A PARCEL ON THE OTHER SIDE. I DON'T HAVE THE ROAD ON THE OTHER SIDE BUT I AM OBVIOUSLY BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND A ROAD. I MEAN, YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT INFILL DOESN'T INCLUDE THE NOTION OF COMING UP AGAINST A ROAD AS A FURTHER EXTENSION OF COMMERCIAL. THAT WASN'T RAISED AS AN ISSUE. >> LOOKING A LINE 152, 1.4.8. IS THAT WHERE WE ARE AT? >> CORRECT, YES. STAFF DIDN'T BRING UP INFILL BECAUSE THE LANGUAGE OF INFILL SAYS THAT THE APPLICATION PARCEL IS LOCATED BETWEEN PARCELS WITHIN AN EXISTING DESIGNATION OF COMMERCIAL, INSTITUTIONAL AND OR INDUSTRIAL. AND THIS PARCEL ISN'T -- DOESN'T MEET THAT. AND, THEREFORE, THAT DIDN'T QUALIFY. BUT THE POLICY SAYS AND-OR. ONE OF THESE TWO PARTS OF THE POLICY. SO IF YOU DON'T MEET INFILL BUT YOU MEET UNIFIED PLAN YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO STILL MOVE FORWARD. SO I DIDN'T ADDRESS THIS IN THE INFILL PORTION OF THIS BECAUSE, AS I SAID, IT DIDN'T SEEM TO MEET THAT. BETTER LOOK AT THE UNIFIED PLAN. IT COMES CLOSE TO MEETING THAT. IT DOESN'T -- YOU ARE RIGHT. IT DOESN'T FOLLOW EXACTLY; HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, THAT IS THE BOARD'S DISCRETION TO BE FLEXIBLE ON SOME OF THOSE THINGS. THAT IS UP TO YOU. >> I WAS VERY EXPLICIT IN THE APPLICATION. >> BILL? >> YES, SIR. >> I THINK WHERE IT CAME -- I SEPTEMBER WE ARE WHERE THE FEN-ACRE DISCUSSION WAS HONESTLY, BUT WHEN WE HAD THAT PARCEL FOR INDUSTRIAL USE. I THINK WE HAD A SIMILAR ISSUE BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING AROUND IT BUT RESIDENTIAL. WASN'T THAT PART OF IT. >> THAT WAS ON COLLEGE? >> NO ON 16TH. THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS NOTHING AROUND IT BUT RESIDENTIAL AND ALTHOUGH IT LOOKED PRETTY GOOD. AND THIS CONNECTS TO COMMERCIAL AND I GET MARK'S POINT TWO SIDES OF THE ROAD ARE ROAD. HOW CAN YOU HAVE INFILL WHEN YOU HAVE THE ROAD ON THE OTHER SIDE AND IT BECOMES PART OF THE LARGER COMMERCIAL NODE. AND THE TEN-ACRE DISCUSSION IS PUTTING THIS WHERE RESIDENCES ARE AROUND THEM. >> TO ALSO -- BE A SUBSTANTIAL PIECE OF PROPERTY. AND SO -- I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. I MEAN, WHATEVER, AGAIN, IF YOU WERE GOING TO HAVE RULES, GO BY THE RULES. LIKE I SAID, SOMEONE ELSE WILL ROLL IN HERE -- SOMEONE ELSE WILL ROLL IN HERE AND SNELL HAVE FOUR ACRES. YOU GA I HAVE IT TO THAT GUY AND HE HAD SIX ACRES. [03:15:04] WON'T YOU GIVE IT TO ME. THAT IS MY POINT. I AM OBVIOUSLY A PRO DEVELOPMENT PERSON. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THESE THINGS. I THINK THEY ARE UGLY BUT CERTAINLY NEEDED. >> ONLY NEEDED BECAUSE THE DEVELOPERS WON'T PUT THEM IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS. THAT IS MY POINT. >> SING -- I THINK IT IS DEFENSIBLE IF YOU ARE IN SUPPORT OF IT. BECAUSE IT IS A PCD AND EACH PCD HAS AN UNIQUE SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES. IF SOMEBODY SAYS I HAVE A PIECE OF PROPERTY ON THIS COUNTY ROAD WITH THIS STUFF AROUND, IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME. YOU WILL HAVE TROUBLE DENYING IT, BUT IF THEY WENT IN WITH A SIX-ACRE SITE THAT SITS IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. >> MARK WOULD COME DOWN AND GET IT DONE. >> YOU LIVE IN CLAY HILL? >>.I LIVE IN CLAY HILL PROUDLY, MY FRIEND. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: ANYTHING ELSE? >> IF IT GETS APPROVED AND A SMALLER LOT THAN WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE HAVE WOULD THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW THE SAME CODE AS FAR AS THE DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES? >> WHATEVER IS IN THAT PCD IS -- >> IT HAS TO COMPLY WITH THE CODE, THAT'S RIGHT. >> ALL THE BUFFERS WILL HAVE TO BE PUT IN PLACE, FRONT AND BACK, INCLUDING THE FRONTAGE OF -- INCLUDING THE FRONTAGE OF 315? >> SHOWN ON THE SITE PLAN. >> CAN YOU PUT THE SITE PLAN BACK UP? I WANT TO SEE THAT. I CAN TRY TO FIND IT. B BUT. >> IT JUST REALLY HOLDS LESS UNITS. GOING TO BE NEEDED OUT IN THAT A AREA. ONLY WANT TO PUT IT IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS. ANY QUESTIONS FOR THEM? >> I HAVE ONE QUESTION, ON THE UNIFIED PLAN TO JOIN TWO PIECES OF PROPERTY WITH SIMILAR ZONING. THE PIECE OF THE PROPERTY THAT WAY FOR WHATEVER IS A PCD, IS THAT RIGHT? >> COMMERCIAL. >> BUT A PLANNED COMMERCIAL? I DON'T KNOW. >> A PUD ACTUALLY. >> BUT DOES THAT -- HE IS APPLYING FOR COMMERCIAL ON THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY, DOES THAT MEET THE CRY TERRY GRAS FOR A UNIFIED PLAN TO COMBINE A PIECE OF COMMERCIAL WITH A PUD. >>THE COMMERCIAL -- CAN YOU PUT THAT MAP BACK UP, DODIE. >>DODIE SELIG: SURE. >> THE RED ON THE MAP IS COMMERCIAL AND THE SITE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS CURRENTLY RESIDENTIAL SO WHEN YOU MAKE IT COMMERCIAL, IT IS ADJACENT TO THE OTHER COMMERCIAL THAT IS TH THERE. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT BUT A COMMERCIAL UNDER A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT. THAT IS MY QUESTION. >> ACTUALLY PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT IN THE COMMERCIAL, YES. AND I THINK IT IS PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE THEY ALSO HAD RESIDENTIAL COMPON TO IT. >>DODIE SELIG: YES, THERE IS. >> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE AND LIKE BILL, I DON'T WANT THIS THING BITING US IN THE BACKSIDE SIX MONTHS FROM NOW IF SOMEBODY ELSE WANTS TO DO SOMETHING CRAZY. >> AGAIN, MR. CHAIR, IN MY APPLICATION FOR BOTH THE PLAN AMENDMENT AND THE REZONING, I ONLY ADDRESSED INFILL. I DID NOT ADDRESS THE TEN ACRES BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK IT APPLIED. SO IF YOU LOOK AT MY APPLICATION, YOU WILL SEE THAT I ADDRESSED THE INFILL. AND MY POINT ABOUT THAT IS IF YOU ARE GOING TO SAY IN BETWEEN TWO EXISTING COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES. WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS ON THE END, IT DOESN'T GET TO BE QUALIFIED AS SUCH. SO THAT -- IT SEEMED TO ME TO BE A LOGICAL INFERENCE THAT YOU COULD EXTEND IT TO THE END OF THE RUN AND THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT THAT I ARGUED IN MY APPLICATION. I DIDN'T. I DIDN'T EVEN ADDRESS THE TEN ACRES BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS APPLICABLE. >> I THINK THE IDEA OF BEING ON EITHER SIDE. THE IDEA THAT'S IN THERE IS TO KEEP -- IF YOU HAVE A ROAD TO KEEP ADDING ON TO THE COMMERCIAL GOING DOWN THE ROAD, BUT IT IS NOT POSSIBLE HERE BECAUSE THE ROAD BLOCKS YOU FROM DOING THAT. SO, ALL RIGHT. IF WE ARE DONE WITH THIS, I WILL TAKE A MOTION. ANYBODY WANT TO MOVE THIS? >> I WILL MOVE TO APPROVE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: A [03:20:04] SECOND? >>COMMISSIONER BRIDGMAN: I WILL SECOND IT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: A MOTION AND A SECOND. >> FOR BOTH? >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: SORRY, THIS HAS TO BE FOR THE LAND USE. ALL RIGHT. I WILL CALL IT. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR CHANGING IT TO COMMERCIAL, STATE AYE. OPPOSED? >> AYE. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: WE HAVE 6-1. >> EXCUSE ME, I AM A NO. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: 5-2 WITH PETE AND MIKE BEING NOS. ALL RIGHT ON THE ZONING MOTION. >>COMMISSIONER BRIDGMAN: SO MOVED. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: A SECOND ON THE PCD? >> I WILL SECOND IT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: WHO IS THAT, JOE? NO MORE DISCUSSION, I WILL CALL THAT ONE. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, STATE AYE. ANY OPPOSED. SAME TWO? PETE AND MIKE? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU GOT YOUR RECOMMENDATION. BE READY FOR THE BCC. WE WILL GIVE -- WE GAVE YOU A LITTLE PRACTICE FOR THAT. >> OH, YOU LOVE IT. YOU LOVE IT. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS ITEM [5.  Public Hearing to consider LDC 2022-17. (B. Carson)] NUMBER 5, WHICH I UNDERSTAND THEY -- COUNTY -- THE STAFF HAS ASKED US TO CONTINUE THIS ITEM? >> YES, SIR. >>COMMISSIONER PUCKHABER: WE DID NOT GET ALL THE BACKGROUND DATA UNTIL TODAY. I NEED A MOTION TO -- WELL, FIRST, LET ME OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS. THERE IS NOBODY COMING UP TO CLOSE IT. OKAY. I NEED A MOTION TO CONTINUE. >> MOTION TO CONTINUE. >> SECOND. >> UNTIL NEXT MEETING. >>. >> SECOND. >> THE MOTION IS TO CONTINUE UNTIL FEBRUARY 7 OR SOON THEREAFTER UNTIL IT CAN BE HEARD. AND WHO SECONDED? JOE WAS THE SECOND? ALL RIGHT. ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? [Old Business/New Business] ALL RIGHT. OLD BUSINESS, NEW BUSINESS. TWO THINGS I GOT TO MENTION. THE FIRST ONE IS OUR NEXT MEETING FEBRUARY 7. WELL, TWO THINGS. IF ANYBODY IS INTERESTED, THERE IS GOING TO BE A BCC WORKSHOP TOMORROW, I THINK -- IS IT TOMORROW? ON THE CONSERVATION -- >> TUESDAY. >> 24TH. >> THE 24TH. OKAY, ON THE 24TH, THERE IS GOING TO BE A BCC WORKSHOP ABOUT SETTING UP SOME KIN OF CONSERVATION PLAN FOR THE COUNTY. I THINK IT SAYS -- 8:00, 9:00 IN THE MORNING FOR TWO HOURS. FEBRUARY 7 IS OUR NEXT MEETING. THERE IS GOING TO BE A PLANNING WORKSHOP FOR THIS BOARD AT #:30 ON FEBRUARY 7 IN THE AFTERNOON TO GO OVER THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. ARTICLE 3. IS THAT RIGHT? ARTICLE 3. WITH THE -- WITH THE CONSULTANTS. HOPEFULLY EVERYBODY CAN MAKE THAT. THAT WILL BE A LONG DAY. BECAUSE THEN AT 5:00 WE HAVE OUR REGULAR SCHEDULE MEETING. AND ALSO ON FEBRUARY 7, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO PUT A DAY IN, AT 10:00 IN THE MORNING, THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ARE GOING TO HAVE THE SAME THE SAME WORKSHOP WITH THE CONSULTANTING WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE BUT OURS ARE AT 2:30 AND OUR REGULAR MEETING AT 5:00. BRING LUNCH. THE ONLY OTHER THING I NEEDED TO MENTION IS OUR FEBRUARY MEETING IS OUR MEETING THAT WE TRADITIONALLY REORGANIZE. SO THAT WILL BE ON THE AGENDA NEXT MONTH. JUST TO SELECT THE NEW CHAIRMAN. MY TWO YEARS ARE UP. >> THIS TIME. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE BUT THE CHAIR? >> CAN I THROW SOMETHING OUT ON THE TABLE. SGLI ANY PROVISIONS AND NOUNCED THE PLANNING MEETING AND THE BCC MEETING. CC WHAT KINDS OF PUBLIC WILL ATTEND THOSE? JUST AS IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO HAVE RESIDENTS ARE IMPACTED PEOPLE AS IT IS TO US. 9 TIMES OUT OF 10 NOBODY KNOWS [03:25:03] THAT THAT 80 IS OCCURRING BECAUSE WE DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEWS OR THE PAPER OR WHEREVER IT'S POSTED. I'M INQUIRING AS TO WHETHER THAT'S UP POSSIBILITY TO INCLUDE THAT TIDBIT IN THERE AS WELL. >> WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADDRESS THAT? >> IF THERE'S AN EXISTING CAC THAT HAS AN ONGOING MEETING AND WE CAN ADD THAT TO THE NOTIFICATION WE WOULD CERTAINLY DO THAT. NOT ALL PARTS OF THE COUNTY HAVE THE CAC. MIDDLEBURG, LAKE ASBURY AND FLEMING ISLAND. YES, WE COULD ADD THAT. WE WOULD HAVE THEM COMING TO IT. >> DOES MIDDLEBURG CLAYBURGH HAVE AN ACTIVE CAC? >> IT IS FORMING AND DODIE IS ABOUT TO DO THE TRAINING FOR THEM WHEN? >> ON THE 30TH. >> GLAD TO HEAR IT. >> ALL RIGHT. THE OTHER THING I DO HAVE ON THE AGENDA, I THINK WE HAVE TO DO FOR OBLIGATION IS THE FINAL PUBLIC HEARING. DON'T HAVE ANY CARDS AND I DON'T SEE ANYONE. WE WILL CLOSE THAT HEARING. JUST DOUBLE CHECK WITH OUR ASSISTANT COUNTY MANAGER. ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT TO MENTION? IF * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.